Congress critters and Senators have to release thorough financial disclosures EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR.

[phleshdef]

The Ethics in Government Act of 1978 is a United States federal law that was passed in the wake of the Nixon Watergate scandal and the Saturday Night Massacre. It created mandatory, public disclosure of financial and employment history of public officials and their immediate family. It also created restrictions on lobbying efforts by public officials for a set period after leaving public office. Last, it created the U.S. Office of Independent Counsel, tasked with investigating government officials.

The most basic criticism of the Ethics in Government Act has been that it repels good people because of its excessive levels of disclosure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_in_Government_Act


This is why I always thought concern over Kerry and McCain's taxes was idiotic. The same goes for Bernie. Anyone that has spent decades as a public official subject to this law has been releasing relevant financial information since this law was passed. This is just one of the many reasons the "criticism" aimed at Bernie Sander's over his tax returns is disingenuous nonsense.

Romney, of course, wasn't subject to these disclosures and thats why his tax returns were important. Otherwise, I would defend him on it as well.

Of course, when Sanders does ultimately put the information out there and there is nothing interesting to see, I'm sure the people running their mouths about it today will give a full throated apology right?

[geek tragedy]

1. Clinton and Obama both disclosed their taxes while running for President, as sitting Senators.

It's the hypocrisy--wags his finger at Clinton over transcripts, but doesn't meet the minimum transparency measures expected of candidates himself.

Sanctimony and hypocrisy are two sides of the same coin.

[phleshdef]

2. You really shouldn't bring up "wagging fingers" while attempting to defend...

...a Clinton supporter talking point. Thats about as low hanging fruit as it gets if I wanted to turn your remarks right back in your face... however I don't think theres any reason to go for such an easy cheap shot right this moment.

But as I asked another poster in another thread...

Have you even bothered to look at Bernie's financial disclosures? What question do you want answered that you can't get from those disclosures? Do you even have an actual, valid argument to make regarding what you want to see in Bernie's tax returns that you aren't seeing in his decades of public financial disclosures? I'm trying to understand if you and others are complaining about this because you THINK there is merit to it or because its just something to complain about.

I expect you'll be able to answer those questions with answers that make sense right?

[geek tragedy]

4. You've seen plenty of Hillary' speeches. Why do you need to see the transcripts of others?

Bernie likes to talk the talk, but not walk the walk.

[phleshdef]

5. Please go find one single post where I've said anything about her transcripts.

And you failed to answer any of my questions. Please don't be cowardly. The questions weren't hard ones to answer. Trying to make this about her speech transcripts is just evasion.

[geek tragedy]

6. Obama and Clinton didn't make that kind of excuse in 2008. Why should Sanders be held to a lower

standard?

Sanders has made a great big sanctimonious show of his asking for Clinton of those transcripts, while not providing anywhere near the same level of personal financial disclosure that Clinton has.

That makes him a giant hypocrite.

[phleshdef]

7. When has Sanders said he will not release his returns?

I'm pretty sure he said that he would release them, he just hasn't done it yet. That in and of itself makes your claims of hypocrisy a total failure of an argument. Now please, will you answer my questions? Were my questions too inconvenient for you to bother with? It's awfully hard to take you seriously when you duck behind other topics in order to hide from very legitimate questions that I have asked.

[beam me up scottie]

11. Don't confuse him with facts, he's rolling.

[uponit7771]

85. His actions have spoken way louder than any words said or unsaid, his FULL taxes are not out there..

... for everyone to see

[passiveporcupine]

9. Seriously?

public speeches are not the same as private speeches. Romney proved that one the hard way with his 47% remark.

All Hillary's public speeches are available. It's the private ones to the big banks that are interesting because of conflict of interest.

But then you knew that. You guys are scared she might actually have to expose herself and post them, and there will be things on there that don't look good.

So sad...too bad.

And don't worry, be happy...Bernie will get his tax filings posted when he has time. He probably hasn't even been home in weeks. These events run seven days a week in multiiple states. Do you really expect him to stop campaigning to run home and do this for you?

[geek tragedy]

10. So Sanders is offering excuses instead of transparency, while demanding

unprecedented levels of transparency from his opponent.

Just another business as usual politician.

[passiveporcupine]

12. What excuses?

He said he's been busy. That's not an excuse, that's a reality. He's campaigning away from home and is not going to run home to fix this for you right this minute.

Someone is looking for a reason to be angry, or they are very very impatient. Like a child who can't be reasoned with.

[geek tragedy]

13. lol, "I've been busy, my wife did them."

[passiveporcupine]

17. To be correct,

It's we've been busy...his wife is with him, helping with his campaign. And she always does their taxes. So just how childish can you get? Potty humor?

[geek tragedy]

20. they had time to track down the first page of the return

but not the rest?

The numbers on that return look off, deductions are very, very high.

The person who prepared his taxes doesn't have a very good record in making accurate financial disclosures.

[passiveporcupine]

22. Still going for that red dot.

Don't you guys ever get tired? Hillary loves playing this game.

[passiveporcupine]

87. And apparently the clintons are refiling taxes for mistakes

Maybe they should not "rush" to get them out, but instead make sure they are accurate.

Are any of the names in the Panama Papers linked with the Clinton Foundation? They are refiling their taxes for not reporting Foreign Donations accurately for at least three years. (self.PanamaPapers)

submitted 13 hours ago * by anthroengineer
Edit: So far we have four names: Bidzina Ivanishvill, Prince Salman, Sultan Al-Nahyan, Petro Poroshenko

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027737406

I can always find my last tax filing fairly quickly. Going back further is a bit harder, but I'm not the greatest filer.

[geek tragedy]

88. Reddit is not a news source.

You can't believe everything you read on the Internet, even on reddit.

[passiveporcupine]

90. The Panama Papers news is all over the place.

But if you want something more legit, here is the source on the Clintons refiling for errors.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-clinton-taxes-exclusive-idUSKBN0NE0CA20150423

Oh, and that came from the reddit link. Quite often you can get good news from reddit.

[geek tragedy]

91. that article is a year old nt

[passiveporcupine]

92. That's not the point

Hillary Clinton's family's charities are refiling at least five annual tax returns after a Reuters review found errors in how they reported donations from governments, and said they may audit other Clinton Foundation returns in case of other errors.

the point is, it's better to make sure you filed correctly before making your tax filings public.

But I apologize, I interrupted your chasing the red dot. You can go play now. Brock and Hillary are waiting.

[phleshdef]

14. You are offering nothing but evasion from legitimate questions that challenges your grievances.

As I said, he confirmed the returns will be released. I guess he should write you a personal apology for not doing it on your time table.

Such illusions of self importance are sad really...

[geek tragedy]

15. he doesn't get credit for disclosure until he discloses, that's how transparency works

He should drop the sanctimony over Clinton's speeches while making excuses for his own lack of transparency.

He doesn't have to do it because I demand it, no.

But, I and plenty of others will be pointing out the hypocrisy and speculating about why he didn't disclose this from the get-go and lead by example.

Is he hiding something? He took a massive number of deductions in 2014--around 27% of his income.

[okasha]

16. That should be a really interesting Schedule A.

[DemonGoddess]

86. My thoughts as well

the attached schedules are always quite revealing.

[passiveporcupine]

19. Clever little ploy of Hillary's, that

Cause she knew you guys would go for this no matter what.

He should drop the sanctimony over Clinton's speeches while making excuses for his own lack of transparency.

There is NO comparison. He said he will post them (when they have time) and he will when he gets home from campaigning long enough to do it. And she said she refuses to release her speeches (unless some impossible conditions are met by all republican candidates who could care less if she reveals them or not). So basically she said NO SHIT SHIRLOCK!

But you guys are chasing the red dot she is flashing around for you...I bet she enjoys the game.

So Sanders will be completely transparent, if the kitties chasing the laser dot can just hold their bladders, but she will never show her speeches. No transparency on her side, but that's what we have learned to expect from her.

[geek tragedy]

21. lol, he said he would do it when he sees fit, isn't that good enough?

no

[passiveporcupine]

23. Keep chasing

[geek tragedy]

24. this is what is called "vetting" in the political process. This is the very early stage

of the vetting process for a candidate.

a candidate who has not even released a full tax return has not been close to vetted

[phleshdef]

28. Oh please, its not about vetting. Its about finding a way to make the other candidate look bad.

Thats all you care about and you know it.

[geek tragedy]

30. it's the hypocrisy. if he hadn't been wagging his finger about Clinton's speech transcripts

for months and months and months, using the same script, I probably would still not care.

But when a candidate fancies himself the High Priest of Transparency, he best follow the creed he demands others follow.

Or, at the very least, meet the standard met by the person he's sanctimoniously scolding.

[phleshdef]

33. "Wagging his finger"

There you go again. I'm surprised Hillary's finger hasn't fell off as much as she whags that thing around.

Seriously, I don't have a lot against Clinton, I even defended her a few nights ago, in this forum, regarding fossil fuel donations. But you really should STFU about finger wagging when you are backing someone that would have the world heavyweight title for it if there was such a thing.

And there is no hypocrisy, he said he'd release them. Your claims of hypocrisy are an utter lie and you are only disgracing yourself.

[geek tragedy]

35. You see nothing hypocritical about:

1) demanding unprecedented levels of disclosure from his opponent and criticizing her for a supposed lack of transparency; and

2) falling woefully short of the level of disclosure that the opponent had provided?

You see nothing wrong with the less transparent candidate attacking the other on the issue of transparency?

[phleshdef]

37. No because #2 is an utter lie. He will give you the damn tax returns.

[geek tragedy]

40. is that your standard for holding politicians accountable

"he said he'd do it so shut up"

[phleshdef]

42. I have no reason to believe that he won't. And neither do you.

So basically yea... though I'm more likely to say "he will do it, chill the fuck out".

[phleshdef]

25. No he isn't hiding anything and you know that.

He'll release the returns soon and you'll conveniently forget you ever pretended to care.

[geek tragedy]

29. until he shows it, he's hiding it.

what qualifies as soon--before New York? After the convention?

[phleshdef]

34. No he isn't. Thats utter bullshit.

You're just pissing and moaning about nothing and you know it.

[geek tragedy]

36. why did he disclose only the 1040 instead of the schedules showing his deductions?

Did the family dog eat the Schedule A?

"he said he will disclose it" is not good enough.

[phleshdef]

38. Its good enough for me. Good enough for most people really.

Its not good enough for you because you are choosing to be petty.

[geek tragedy]

39. Please read this article about Rubio and Cruz's tax disclosures.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/marco-rubio-tax-returns-219905

Republican presidential candidates Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz have repeatedly demanded that front-runner Donald Trump release his tax returns, but both stopped well short of fully disclosing their own returns.

Each on Saturday released brief summaries of their recent returns that described their income and tax bills in broad terms, but both provided few details on things like which deductions they claimed and why, or how much they gave to charity.

That may undermine their repeated demands that Trump provide his returns, something he’s refused to do because he says he’s being audited.

Rubio, who’s long been dogged by questions over his personal finances, provided the first two pages of each of his last five tax returns. They show he paid a 23.5 percent tax rate on $335,561 in income in 2014. His income has varied widely over the past five years, from as little as $183,826 in 2010 to $929,439 in 2012.

Cruz followed several hours later, also by releasing only the first two pages of his tax returns from the past four years. They show he paid $442,701 in taxes on $1.2 million in adjusted gross income in 2014.

The twin releases are aimed at upping the pressure on Trump to produce his own returns. Eager to slow his momentum before Super Tuesday, they’ve argued that Republicans have a right to know of any problems with Trump’s taxes before the party settles on a nominee. That could potentially embarrass Trump by showing he paid an unusually low tax rate or used aggressive tax-avoidance strategies or perhaps isn’t as wealthy as he boasts.

But Rubio and Cruz undercut their own promises of transparency by releasing only partial returns, said Joe Thorndike, a tax historian.

“Until they release full returns, this exercise is more about politics than real transparency,” he said. “I wish both Rubio and Cruz would take a page from their hero, Ronald Reagan, who released a full return when running in 1980. It was only a single year, but one complete return is more valuable than a dozen partial ones.”

Asked why Rubio is not releasing his entire returns, campaign spokesman Alex Conant said, “We're not ruling anything out. What we released today is consistent with what he released during his Senate campaign — and way more than any of the other top GOP candidates have released.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/marco-rubio-tax-returns-219905

[phleshdef]

41. Means nothing.

I don't give 2 shits about Rubio and Cruz.

[geek tragedy]

43. so those criticisms of Cruz and Rubio were egregiously unfair? nt

[phleshdef]

53. I think everything should ultimately be disclosed.

And I believe wholeheartedly, for Bernie, everything will be.

I don't believe the "clock is running out" right this minute or anything like that. and thats where we are really differing. Cruz should release everything as well. Rubio didn't make it far enough for it to matter, so thats over with.

Honestly, I think I'm pretty damn fair and level headed about this shit.

[tblue37]

44. The birthers demanded that Obama show his "long form" BC, but when he did, they

Last edited Mon Apr 4, 2016, 07:41 AM - Edit history (1)

insisted it was fake and also demanded to see his transcripts. No matter what Bernie shows, they will move the goal posts and demand more.

[phleshdef]

51. I almost made that same comment myself, but perhaps its a bit over the top in comparison.

At least right now I think it is, if they keep it up, I might change my mind, lol.

[geek tragedy]

84. He's dragging his feet, at best nt

[Marr]

68. You realize that when he releases these things, it's going to seem awfully wormy when

you continue defending Hillary's refusal to release those transcripts.

[JDPriestly]

32. I want to see the transcripts of the speeches that Hillary made to Wall Street and to

business organizations.

[pugetres]

52. Transparency?

In 1992, during Bill Clinton's first run for office, the Clintons declined to release all of their tax returns because, it turned out, a few of the returns showed Hillary Clinton's incredible success in commodities trading when Bill Clinton was attorney general and then governor of Arkansas.

She made almost $100,000 from an initial investment of $1,000 in a matter of months — a return of 10,000% — under the guidance of a lawyer who was also outside counsel to Tyson Foods Inc., Arkansas' largest employer. The returns weren't made public until 1994.

- http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/clintons-absymal-record-on-open-government-b99696012z1-374014501.html?platform=hootsuite

[geek tragedy]

83. Disclosed. Bernie hasn't disclosed anything.

[Marr]

72. From the creators of the Birther movement, comes the equally stupid

'tax return' demands. And just like the birth certificate nonsense, I expect these new demands will prove similarly malleable.

[beam me up scottie]

3. And if there was anything fishy Brock would have found it in his disclosures.

It's a witch hunt, even after he released them they would continue to say he and Jane have money in overseas accounts.

[Aerows]

8. Glad to see

that we are on the same side for once.

I believe that we should have a transcripts for taxes challenge.

[Jitter65]

18. Financial disclosures are not tax returns. nt

[phleshdef]

26. And tax returns are not financial disclosures? Financial disclosures show a lot more about income...

...sources as well.

[beam me up scottie]

27. More facts, stop harshing the meme!

[riversedge]

45. Sure they do-but they are NOT tax returns.

[phleshdef]

46. Yes, no one said they were tax returns. Now that we've burned that strawman...

[riversedge]

56. Then no need for a long OP on financial disclosures.

[phleshdef]

58. Three short paragraphs and two short excerpts equate to a long OP?

Thats a mighty short attention span if you really think that?

[Autumn]

31. No they are in a panic and will move on to the next shiny object.

[4now]

47. But they are not tax returns

[phleshdef]

50. But they still tell us all about their net worth, their assets and their liabilities.

Aside from that, Bernie is going to release his tax returns anyway and it will be a moot point.

[4now]

57. I just wonder what he is trying to hide

And why he is blaming his wife.

[phleshdef]

59. Nothing and he isn't.

But you know that.

[4now]

60. If he wasn't trying to hide something then he would release his tax returns.

Simple.

[phleshdef]

61. Um, he said he is going to soon.

And he will. And you'll all look very foolish.

[4now]

64. Please. Don't hold your breath.

[phleshdef]

65. I won't. No need to.

[Kentonio]

63. That's genuinely pathetic.

It's not 'blaming his wife' to tell the press that his wife does his returns, its an explanation of why he couldn't for instance just ring his accountant and have them mailed over.

[phleshdef]

67. He or she knows that. Thats why I didn't even bother correcting them.

[Kentonio]

70. I only bother on the grounds that if this stuff is left unchallenged

There's a chance an infrequent poster could see it and actually think it was true.

[phleshdef]

71. Yea, thats cool. I do that sometimes, but I get tired of the horse shit other times.

Set the facts straight though, as much as you have the patience for. We all need to do our part.

[Kentonio]

74. I think my limit will be reached with the next damn tax thread they vomit over the forum.

[beam me up scottie]

75. What is wrong with you? Why would you say he's blaming Jane?

Is this a preview of Monday's meme?

How low will you go?

[4now]

76. Maybe he will do the right thing and release his tax returns

Then he won't have to blame anyone.

[beam me up scottie]

77. That answers that question, it's bottomless.

[4now]

78. People won't give up on this story until he comes clean and releases his hidden tax returns.

[beam me up scottie]

79. #releasethegroceryreceipts

[4now]

80. Why do you think that he wont release his hidden tax returns

I mean there has got to be a reason.

[beam me up scottie]

81. You said he mishandles money but you won't say why you came to that conclusion.

What kind of person automatically assumes Bernie can't be trusted with money? That is odd.

Don't bother responding, I've seen enough.

[4now]

82. Keep dancing around the question - why wont he release his hidden tax returns

[Aerows]

48. And still droves of DUers

attempt to tell us we are stupid, like they did with the "Hillary doesn't take money from the fossil fuel associates."

Want to pee on my leg and tell me that it is raining?

[aidbo]

49. I just want to say that I am thrilled at the amount of Belushi in this thread!

[riversedge]

54. #ReleaseTheReturns . Apologize for What?

[phleshdef]

55. #CutThePhonyBullshit

[riversedge]

62. If it was not real I would.

[phleshdef]

69. Well the phony bullshit is real.

I mean, its bullshit and its totally based on phony, disingenuous concern.

[Marr]

66. They'll move on to some other bullshit smear without acknowledging it, because

they literally *do not care* about anything beyond stirring shit for the Queen.

[beam me up scottie]

73. Yup.

[winter is coming]

94. My guess is that it's a pre-emptive strike in advance of a release of the Panama

papers that will make HRC look bad.

[CalvinballPro]

89. There's a different standard at the Presidential level. Summary forms don't cut it, and full returns

are the standard. I.E. not what Bernie has produced so far.

Call my cynical, but I have trouble accepting Bernie's "My wife ate our tax returns" defense for why they haven't been released already. I was born, but not yesterday.

[robbedvoter]

93. Good. So bore us. After all, you want to tax us - we need to know your deeds on the subject

Not just words. Just as much as I want Trump's as well. And BTW, I have a pretty good idea why both are reluctant - basically their base would be in shock at the discrepancy from the words.