I'm taking bets on whether Bernie will meet with the Pope.

[hill2016]

A real sit-down one-on-one meeting with substantive exchange of views, not a hi-bye meeting.

Any takers?

We can use bitcoin. Relatively anonymous but verifiable by everyone.

[kennetha]

1. I bet he doesn't even go to Italy.

[hill2016]

2. I wouldn't want to take this bet

but I'm sure you'll have takers

[awake]

3. Why do you care and what does it have to do with this forum?

[Hoyt]

4. Seems obvious when someone comes out and says he is meeting with the Pope to gain an edge in NY.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. This whole Vatican thing really has you worked up, doesn't it?

Why not just relax and see what happens? Maybe he'll go to the conference and maybe he won't; maybe he'll see the Pope and maybe he won't. Why the hell do you care so much?

Seems like the optics of Bernie being invited to talk about the idolatry of money while Hillary is busy idolizing money at George Clooney's mansion is getting worrisome among some folks, no?

[awake]

8. I could not have said it better

The only other possibility that the Hillary' supporters are trying to make a big deal to distract from Bill's remarks in Philly about BLM when he really stepted in it.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

14. of course

[redwitch]

6. Why does it matter?

It is an honor that he was invited to this conference. As I'm sure you know.

[basselope]

7. Of course he will meet with him.

Doubt it will be a long sit down, but little doubt they will meet.

[DrDan]

70. of course he will - he said so on national TV

[basselope]

72. poor thing

so sad and bitter

[DrDan]

74. he shouldn't be - still an honor and he should treat it as such

even though he may or may not meet the Pope

[basselope]

75. He likely will.

When one is invited to someone's home, you usually get to meet them.

The silly thing has been this concept that he lied.

It shows how little people understand the term.

[DrDan]

76. neither he, nor anyone here knows - and he claimed otherwise

very clear

[basselope]

78. No, not at all.

To say otherwise is to completely distort reality.

[DrDan]

79. what do you mean "no, not at all"?

[basselope]

80. He didn't "claim otherwise" in any form of lie.

[DrDan]

81. he clearly stated he would be meeting with the Pope on The View

video evidence is there

He does not know that. No one here knows that. It was clearly not true.

And there was no reason to inflate the situation. He could have said he hopes to meet with the Pope while there. But no - he clearly says otherwise. The invitation was an honor in itself. There was no reason to inflate its meaning or intent.

Even if it turns out they meet, on that show, on that date, he knowingly did not state the truth.

[basselope]

82. Incorrect.

He stated what he reasonably believe to be the truth.

He will likely meet the pope.

Sorry.

[DrDan]

83. here's video proof

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017352798

[basselope]

85. Video proof of what? Your inaccurate distortion?

[DrDan]

86. lol

"You're meeting with the Pope?"

"Yup"

"Pope Francis has invited Bernie to visit him."

shakes head in agreement

so . . . what did I distort? He agreed he was meeting with the Pope - which we both know is unknown at this point. He also agreed that he was invited by the Pope. Which is also untrue according to the Vatican itself

"In a telephone interview, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, the senior Vatican spokesman, said that the invitation to Sanders did not come from the pope and that he was unaware of whether the pontiff had been informed before the offer was extended. Rather, the invitation came via the hand of an influential Argentine cleric in Vatican City, Monsignor Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, who heads the ancient Pontifical Academy of Sciences."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sanders-ties-his-advocacy-for-a-moral-economy-to-the-work-of-pope-francis/2016/04/09/1082454e-fe58-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html?postshare=5551460219544263&tid=ss_tw

[basselope]

88. Because it wasn't "unknown at that point" and still isn't "unknown".

He was the Vatican IS the Pope, so an invitation from the Vatican, is an invitation from the Pope and yes, he will meet him.

The fact that Hillary is this desperate to try and distort this is quite sad.

So sorry it didn't work out for you.

I could give you some Pinocchios if you want.

[DrDan]

89. okee dokee then

yesterday we had "the Pope personally approves all invitations"

today we have "the Vatican IS the Pope"

at a loss of words right now - but the picture of a generic Bernie supporter is becoming more clear.

[basselope]

91. And now we can see the definition of a lie...

'today we have "the Vatican IS the Pope" "

It was actually on Friday that this was initial explained, but to the chagrin of Clinton supporters.. one of them even posted a now locked thread complaining about this.

It is more likely than not you read that post (since you rec'd it) and now you claim this notion has just come up "today". So you are intentionally, with foreknowledge distorting the truth.

But, reality is that an invitation from the Vatican IS an invitation from the Pope, just as an invitation from the White House IS an invitation from the President.

So sorry it didn't work out for and that you had to resort to lies.

[DrDan]

93. there ya go assuming again - I did not see that post

So why would the Vatican now say the invitation did not come from the Pope?

[basselope]

96. You rec'd it.

So you did see it.

The lies keep on piling up.

[DrDan]

98. that is perhaps true then - I do not remember it

was it in an OP? Could you post the link to refresh my memory.

[basselope]

100. If you rec'd it, it was an OP, since you can't rec comments.

[DrDan]

101. I do not remember rec'ing an OP where the premise was made that Vatican=Pope

I find it hard to believe I rec'ed it. But not denying it if you saw it. Can you provide link or subject line.

[basselope]

105. That wasn't the "premise" of the post.

It was mentioned within the OP as a "false justification" that some have used to cover up the "lie".

But since there was no lie, the post was ultimately locked.

The fact is.. Sanders didn't lie.

Sorry.

[DrDan]

90. perhaps you can shed some wisdom on this statement from the Vatican . . . er, the Pope . . . whoever

"The Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi told The Daily Beast that it wasn’t the pope who personally invited the politician. “The invitation was made on behalf of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, not by Pope Francis,” he said. “There is no expectation that the pope will meet Mr. Sanders.” He then added that he could not completely exclude the possibility, but that nothing was on the agenda at the moment."

*********************************

The Vatican (who is the Pope) states the Pope did not personally invite Sanders . . . via the Vatican's invitation, hence the Pope's invitation. The Pope's invitation is not from the Pope.

See the paradox?

[basselope]

92. No paradox at all.

You fail to understand the relationship.

You are trying to infuse the word "personally" into it to create a paradox that does not exist.

Obama doesn't PERSONALLY approve all white house invitation, but an invitation to the White House is an invitation from the President.

[DrDan]

95. even the Vatican does not hold that view

a Vatican spokesman states the Vatican invitation was not from the Pope.

[basselope]

97. Not exactly true...

Again, they said PERSONALLY. You keep missing that qualifying word. An invitation from the Vatican IS an invitation from the pope because the Vatican is the pope.

[TheCowsCameHome]

9. I'm taking bets on whether Hillary will meet with FBI agents soon

A real sit-down several-on-one meeting with a substantive charges, not a "sorry, no thanks, I'm too busy today" kind of meeting.

Any takers?

[whatchamacallit]

10. What do you wager? All those off shore accounts and you still won't

Last edited Sat Apr 9, 2016, 01:56 PM - Edit history (1)

put your money where your mouth is?

[panader0]

11. You're on. How much and how will you send me the money when you lose?

[SocialLibFiscalCon]

12. WHO GIVES A SHIT???.

Seriously. This manufactured controversy is absurd. Let's focus on real issues instead of trying to distract with crap like this....

[magical thyme]

13. From what I've read, the Pope is traveling that week. So it becomes a very easy bet. nt

[riderinthestorm]

18. Actually he's not going to Greece now until 4/16

A visit by Pope Francis and Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I to the island of Lesbos was announced Wednesday by church and government officials in Greece, NPR's Sylvia Poggioli reports. 

The Vatican confirmed the visit on Thursday, the Associated Press says. The trip is planned for April 16. 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/06/473209431/pope-francis-patriarch-bartholomew-may-visit-greece-this-month

[magical thyme]

49. well that changes things...I'd thought the trip was same day! nt

[riderinthestorm]

50. The Pope changed the dates...

[magical thyme]

51. can you pass me some of that popcorn?

thanks!

[TheFarS1de]

59. He moves in mysterious ways

They honestly think that there will not be even a quick meet and greet when they are attending a Vatican conference , on a subject the current Pope is passionate about . I cannot wait for the poutrage when it does happen .

[Ken Burch]

15. It doesn't matter.

There is no issue here.

[athena]

19. Claiming the Pope invited him when he didn't is not an issue?

I bet it would be a huge issue if Hillary had done it.

Here is the video. Bernie says "Yup" and nods when Joy Behar says "Pope Francis invited Bernie to visit him in the Vatican." It is a fact that the Pope did not invite Bernie to visit him. But it seems a lie is not a lie if it is told by Bernie.

[Ken Burch]

20. The Vatican did invite him...this has been proved...

Nobody in the Vatican sends out invitations without the Pope having agreed to it.

Bernie did not lie on this

[athena]

22. The Vatican is not the Pope.

The Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences is not the Pope. If the situations had been reversed, DU would be full of threads about how Hillary lied. Again, what we see here is that when it's Bernie telling it, a lie is no longer called a lie and no longer suggests horrible things about the speaker's character.

[Ken Burch]

24. If the Vatican did it, it reflects what the Pope wanted.

It's one of the most centralized institutions in the world.

An invitation from the Vatican is the same thing as an invitation from the guy who runs the Vatican.

There is no issue here.

Bernie is telling the truth

[athena]

33. He said "Yup" when asked "You're meeting with the Pope?"

You have to really twist that into a pretzel to argue that it's not a lie.

It looks more and more like Bernie thinks he can say anything and get away with it. Among his supporters, he can, but not everyone is so enamored with him that they will look for any argument, no matter how roundabout, to turn his lies into truths.

[Ken Burch]

34. At the worst, he assumed an invitation from the Vatican meant he'd meet with the Pope.

And it's still entirely possible he will meet with the Pope.

If that wasn't on the agenda, they'd have told him he could participate by teleconference or something.

So no, no lie.

[athena]

37. You're just proving my point.

That everything Bernie says is the truth in the eyes of his supporters.

[Ken Burch]

39. No, I just proved he didn't lie.

It would have been a lie if Bernie had said he'd meet with the Pope when he knew he wasn't going to.

There is no issue here and nothing to be outraged about.

It's weird that your working so hard to save the conservative(pro-corporate equals conservative)candidate for the Democratic nomination.

[athena]

43. If you think Hillary is a conservative, you clearly know nothing about her

beyond the smears the right-wing noise machine has been spreading about her for decades.

I challenge you to read this:
http://www.thenation.com/article/can-hillary-clinton-win-over-the-left/
and continue to claim that Hillary is a conservative.

What's interesting is the lengths to which Bernie supporters will go to destroy the candidate who is most likely to be the Democratic nominee. The nastiness of Bernie's supporters is what helps the Conservatives.

[frylock]

94. Do you have any idea how foolish you're going to look when Bernie meets with the Pope?

[riderinthestorm]

29. Bishop Sorondo is a close aide to Francis and he issued the invite to Bernie.

During the last Vatican conference on climate change, Francis was personally involved and it was a similar size.

I find it hard to believe Francis didn't approve this guest list.

Furthermore the "Vatican" is its own country and its not uncommon to refer to pretty much anything there as the "Vatican".

You dont say the latest papal encyclical came from the "Papal residence" although that would be most accurate. We say it came from the Vatican.

[Ken Burch]

35. Thanks. n/t.

[CountAllVotes]

104. Maybe this helps -- ??

Question: "What is the Holy See?"

Answer: The term "Holy See" is from the Latin Sancta Sedes, meaning “holy chair.” It is said that the Holy See is the jurisdiction in Rome of the Catholic Church. In other words, it is similar to a government, which is not surprising considering that the Vatican is its own country and has its own money and its own laws. However, there is a difference between the Holy See, which dates back to early Christian times, and Vatican City, which came into existence in 1929 with the signing of the Lateran Treaty between the See and the Italian government. The Holy See is an episcopal designation, while Vatican City is primarily a political and diplomatic one.

The government of the Holy See includes tribunals, congregations, pontifical counsels and numerous other bureaucratic entities. Of course the pope is the head of the See, as he is considered the head of the Catholic Church. The secretariat of state is the second in command of the See and oversees the 175 diplomatic worldwide relationships and offices. The See is a member of numerous international organizations, including the United Nations.

*******

Bottom line is this:

The Vatican is a place and the pope is the head of the Catholic Church.

[DrDan]

53. huh? and you know this how?

good heavens . . . this place is getting creepier and creepier with these bogus claims

[Ken Burch]

61. Here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1682689

[DrDan]

62. where does that say the Pope personally approved the invitation

and that that was the social protocol for all Vatican-hosted events

[Ken Burch]

63. Everything a Vatican official does has to have papal approval.

They don't just let you go off on your own tangents in that shop.

The link proves Bernie wasn't lying.

[DrDan]

64. and that includes invitations to academic conferences? - link please

[Ken Burch]

65. If the Pope didn't want these people to participate, they wouldn't have beein invited TO the Vatican

And this conference wouldn't be happening there.

It would just be at Georgetown or some Catholic university in Latin America.

There is no reason for you guys to be doubling down on what you know is non-issue. It just makes you look silly.

[DrDan]

66. and there is no reason for you guys to inflate your importance - just makes you look silly

why say you are meeting with the Pope when you do not know if you will be or not - just state the truth - that you hope to meet with the Pope

Why state the Pope personally approved Bernie's invitation when you have no idea whether that is the case or not.

I am not downplaying the honor of receiving the invitation. Just be honest as to what it really represents.

[Ken Burch]

67. ANY Vatican invitation is by definition a Papal invitation.

The Pope doesn't give his staff the freedom to invite whoever the heaven they want. The invitation goes out in the name of an with the authority of the Holy Father.

And Bernie didn't claim he would be the single most important person invited by the Pope.

There is no issue here, and you guys have no reason to pretend you are outraged

You make yourselves look like schoolyard bullies by not letting this go.

[DrDan]

68. then a simple link showing the Pope personally approves all invitations to Vatican City

should be easy for you - with your all-encompassing knowledge of Vatican social protocol.

And why put words in my mouth - I never said Bernie claimed he "would be the single most important person invited by the Pope." Where did that come from?

I simple reminded you that he did clearly state he would be meeting with the Pope - with video evidence. We both know that is currently a stretch - at best. He knows no such thing. It might happen. It might not. No one knows at this point. Why make the claim?

You have no reason to pretend to be more important than you really are. The invitation was an honor in itself. No reason to inflate the whole situation.

You make yourselves look like typical bravado-filled BB-bullies - the ones Bernie personally tried to reign in.

[DrDan]

69. oh dear . . . ". . . invitation to Sanders did not come from the pope . . ."

"In a telephone interview, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, the senior Vatican spokesman, said that the invitation to Sanders did not come from the pope and that he was unaware of whether the pontiff had been informed before the offer was extended. Rather, the invitation came via the hand of an influential Argentine cleric in Vatican City, Monsignor Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, who heads the ancient Pontifical Academy of Sciences."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sanders-ties-his-advocacy-for-a-moral-economy-to-the-work-of-pope-francis/2016/04/09/1082454e-fe58-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html?postshare=5551460219544263&tid=ss_tw

*************************************************************************************************

You really should remind Rev. Lombardi of proper Vatican protocol - that the Pope personally approves all invitations to the Vatican/Vatican City.

[Ken Burch]

71. It's a trivial difference.

It was in the name of the Pope.

Why are you dwelling on something only conservatives would think matters?

This is a dead issue.

[DrDan]

73. because you made such a big deal out of it and because Bernie decided to lie about it

"in the name of the Pope" - and the Pope personally scrutinizing the invitation list are two very different, non-trivial things

you decided to make up some bogus protocol to make it a papal matter, which it isn't

[riderinthestorm]

40. I don't know this teevee show but the way it looked to me, its a pretty fluffy show?

When the first woman made the erroneous statement, Bernie could have corrected her with "the Vatican " or just let it go as a minor slip.

For that audience it seems as though it would be splitting hairs to say, "it was Pope Francis' close aide who invited me".

Only political junkies are scrutinizing every minutia.

[athena]

44. Any honest person would have corrected the misinterpretation.

I know I would have.

But Bernie is held to a different standard. He knows that whatever he says will be twisted by his supporters to be the words of an honest man of integrity.

[riderinthestorm]

45. I would not hold anything similar against Hillary

Its small in the framework of the entire event.

[jmg257]

16. No bet...But you can get a 50/50 on Hill being indicted. nt

[robbedvoter]

17. Depends: Is Lesbos on his itinerary?

because that's where the Pope will be on April 16

[awake]

21. The Pope is meeting with gay woman on April 16th?

That's news.

[Ken Burch]

25. With this Pope, it could happen.

n/t.

[Ken Burch]

36. They'll both be there on the 15th, though.

There is no issue, there is no lie.

Give it a rest.

[CTyankee]

23. Yay, another Bernie and the Pope thread! Awesome. I don't bet but I think if he CAN

go, he will go. I think it would be invaluable to his campaign. From what I understand, the Pope will be in Greece during the meeting. But he doesn't have to meet the Pope. JUst sitting down with other world leaders holding similar beliefs will add to his foreign policy rep and make him look like a leader. The GOP will have fits and migraines...good!

[Goblinmonger]

26. What odds are you going to give me on Hillary meeting with the Pope?

I'd like some of that action.

Or we each put some money down and if Hillary meets with the Pope you get the money and if Sanders does I do. If neither do, it's a push.

[Trenzalore]

31. When she's President

They most likely will meet

[B Calm]

27. Did you know Bill Clinton pointed his finger at the BLM movement?

[ibegurpard]

28. bitcoin lol

MIRT how much more obvious does this one have to get for you?

[2pooped2pop]

30. how many people ever get that?

But you can take all the bets you want. Fact is Bernie was invited, Hillary was not. Fact is, the Vatican turned down an invite to Hillary's pay to play money exchange um ... charity.

Check the cloud Hillary, maybe your invite came by email and you wiped it with a cloth.

[IdaBriggs]

38. Ooh...that one Bernied....

[jmg257]

41. OH SNAP - "Check the cloud Hillary, maybe your invite came by email and you wiped it with a cloth."

Winner!!

[dinkytron]

32. Photo the Pope and Bernie.

yup, that's how tight they are going to be. They were born to be pals

[IamMab]

42. The Pope knows he can't be seen to be influencing an election. No meeting at all. nt

[riderinthestorm]

47. Actually Pope Francis has a history of dropping in on these conferences

http://ncronline.org/blogs/eco-catholic/vatican-worlds-mayors-vow-tackle-climate-change-poverty

Going to meet the group isn't akin to an individual meeting.

And I just had a huge laugh at your statement that the Pope wouldn't influence elections. The Church's entire history is political maneuvering! Centuries of it!!

[GeorgeGist]

48. Would he go to hell? Jail? Gitmo?

[itsrobert]

46. Bernie might hide in a bathroom stall with a photographer

and when the Pope comes into the bathroom he and the photographer pop out for a Photo Op. Unfortunately, Bernie would probably have toilet paper stuck in his shoes.

[magical thyme]

52. you mean like this?

[Ned_Devine]

56. Funny! What the heck is this?

[Gothmog]

54. It will be interesting to see what happens

[Ned_Devine]

55. That'll be great if/when he does

Just as it would be if Hillary did

[TSIAS]

57. Are you DU's resident bookie?

I hope the authorities don't find out. Illegal bookmaking is against the law.

[AgingAmerican]

58. Im laughing at Hillary partisans bizarre obsession

With it all..

[Gore1FL]

60. Was he supposed to? The invitation wasn't for a meeting with him, was it?

I thought it was to participate in a conference on the global economy. Do you know something different?

[stone space]

77. If they do, I hope they have a little chat about guns and gays.

That's a conversation that they both might benefit from having.

[beam me up scottie]

99. After what you've posted about "ammosexuals" as well as homophobic images, you should look inward.

What a disgusting use of homophobic dog whistles to promote an agenda.

[Tarc]

84. Seeing how the Pope will be in Greece on the day of this conference, the chance is 0%.

[asuhornets]

87. I'm in....He won't...n/t

[Vinca]

102. I'm taking bets on the number of days it will take the House of Representatives

to start impeachment proceedings against a President Hillary Clinton. 2? 3?

[snowy owl]

103. Why? What does it have to do with issues?

[hill2016]

106. last call...any takers?

[GreatGazoo]

107. nobody took right side of this bet?

[ViseGrip]

108. YOU LOST!

[frylock]

109. Kick and rec

[bvar22]

110. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Now serving up hot steaming crow for the Hillary crowd in this thread.
I heard its not too bad with a little hot sauce.

Lets review:
First, the attack was that Bernie invited himself. When that nasty piece of Brock propaganda was proved to be FALSE, The Weathervane Crowd immediately pivoted to...Well, he won't be speaking at the conference...WRONG AGAIN.

THEN, Bernie won't meet the Pope, so why bother to go?
WRONG AGAIN!

Hmm. I see a trend.

Bernie Sanders Met with Pope Francis
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280176019