Bernie Sanders Wins Missouri After All Sanders projected to win 37 delegates. UPDATED

[Rebkeh]

Bernie Sanders Wins Missouri After All
Sanders projected to win 37 delegates. Clinton to get 34 delegates

By Salam Morcos - April 10, 2016

Progressive Army
http://progressivearmy.com/2016/04/10/bernie-sanders-wins-missouri-after-all/

On March 15, Hillary Clinton narrowly won the Missouri primary with 49.6% of the vote, compared to Bernie Sanders’ 49.4% share of the vote. Since delegates are allocated proportionally, it was projected that Hillary Clinton would win 36 of the 71 pledged delegates, and Sanders would walk away with the other 35 delegates.

But the delegate selection process is not that simple. The voters in the primary do not directly elect the 71 national convention delegates as one might think. Instead, delegates from each candidate who are selected proportionally attend Mass Meetings on April 7 at the different wards, townships and counties across the state. The purpose of these meetings is to select District-Level delegates who would later elect the 71 pledged delegates to represent the candidates in the Democratic National Convention.

[guillaumeb]

1. Do you have a link? Thanks. eom

[Rebkeh]

14. oops, here ya go

http://progressivearmy.com/2016/04/10/bernie-sanders-wins-missouri-after-all/

[Avalux]

2. Every bit helps! Good job Bernie delegates!

[TMontoya]

3. No

This is false reporting. The results of the primary vote are binding. No delegates will be flipped. Hillary maintains her win.

[mcar]

5. Thanks for this

Nice to know the will of the voters still holds sway.

[Art_from_Ark]

43. And yet in Wyoming, Bernie beat Hillary 56-44%,

yet they're splitting delegates, 7-7.

[northernsouthern]

4. Yeah link please.

I am seeing spam both ways on this. Nothing as of yet clarifying it.

[geek tragedy]

6. Sorry, Sanders doesn't get to steal Missouri.

Missouri's primary is binding, which means the delegates must vote according to the votes as cast.

What you're referring to is the process for selecting the individual delegates, not how they'll vote at the convention.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Have they stopped to think how this chicanery must be pissing off the Super Delegates?

[TheBlackAdder]

22. A clash of philosophies: Socialists steal from others, while Corporatists buy people off. Who wins?

[Ash_F]

7. link

http://progressivearmy.com/2016/04/10/bernie-sanders-wins-missouri-after-all/

[PeaceNikki]

8. Except no. As is explained in the comments...

Brandi Hayes
Analyst at TestAmerica
To the best of my knowledge, this is not how it will work. I attended (and was selected) the mass meeting in St. Charles County, where we had to select delegates for parts of two different congressional districts (2 & 3). She did not have enough to be viable in CD2, but as it was explained to me by two of my fellow committeepeople (one a Hillary supporter and the other a Bernie supporter), that just means she'll have a smaller pool of people to pull from when we narrow down the delegates at the State Convention.
Like · Reply · Mark as spam · 7 · 18 hrs

Monica Thomas
Works at Shindig Games
Yeah, it's the same process as Virginia. The national delegate count is fixed from the Primary numbers. The local, congressional and state caucuses are really just a marketing tool to find new, active politically minded people who will continue to work with the party after the election.

Dunno if that's how that will work out this time. tongue emoticon

[Buzz Clik]

9. Swing of 2 delegates...but not really.

[Gothmog]

11. The OP is wrong-read the Missouri Delegate Selection Plan

Under the Missouri Delegate Selection plan, the results of the primary are binding and can not be changes. See rule 6A of the Delegate Selection plan https://drive.google.com/a/chriskoster.com/file/d/0Bw8qd8A8ZSVLY0RGWFNtMlJkdXc/view?pref=2&pli=1 In addition each Candidate has approval rights over their delegates under rule 5 of the Delegation Selection Plan. In Texas, I have been asked to help vet the delegates to the national convention for my Senate district for the Clinton campaign. The campaign takes this vetting process seriously.

I am not sure what the Sanders people think that they are doing. The primary is binding and they can not change the results fo the primary under Missouri Democratic party rules.

[RandySF]

13. I think many are new to the process

And really misinformed or even dishonest sites give them the impression that the fight continues in places where it does not.

[Gothmog]

31. The premise of the OP is simply false

[RandySF]

12. Totally incorrect

The numbers of Clinton and Sanders delegates are set. Now they are choosing who will be attending the convention under the candidates' banners.

[rhett o rick]

16. How do they get set? In Washington the State the process is similar to what the OP states.

The final delegate count does not come until after the State convention. We held the causes and the total number of delegates was projected from that. That's a projection. Next, on May 1, we will have the caucuses for the Legislative Dist, then on to the Congressional Dist caucuses and then on to the State convention. All alone the way elected delegates might not show up to be counted. In my caucus the difference in enthusiasm was palpable. I think of the long hall, Clinton will lose a few State delegates. Maybe Missouri is different.

[RandySF]

18. Washington is a caucus

Missouri is a primary. Delegate allocation was determined the night the result came in.

[rhett o rick]

19. My mistake. It sounded like a caucus from the OP. nm

[Gothmog]

32. Caucuses are different than primaries

[DanTex]

15. Two things.

1) It appears that this is not what is actually happening.
2) Even if it were, it's bizarre that Bernie fans are actually celebrating the thwarting of the will of the electorate via bureaucratic machinations.

[Gothmog]

33. This is what credentials committees are for

[NCTraveler]

17. I know I shouldn't be laughing.

Due to what you believe to be true here, you are about to lose Missouri for a second time when reality kicks in.

[PeaceNikki]

20. Oh, I thought the "updated" edit was to point out that it's blatantly false.

Because it is.

[dana_b]

21. the question is why aren't some of the Clinton delegates showing up

to the follow up meetings? It's very strange.

[northernsouthern]

23. Got the Facts!!!

So according to the Missouri board of election:

There are:
9 Pleo
15 At Large

(They are both bound by state and will not change.)

47 Congressional District

But they are NOT bound, Bernie has won ONE more delegate so far.

My source: Me, I talked to the DNC for the state.

I asked for some family.

BTW, the were very helpful and said they are still collecting results and should know by the end of the week...also they don't hit the state level until the 28th.

[Gothmog]

34. Read the Missouri Delegate Selection plan

Your analysis is simply wrong. Funny but wrong

[KingFlorez]

24. Sanders is the only person that can win "retroactively"

Camp Sanders has it's own set of rules.

[northernsouthern]

25. Yes, very brilliant!

Sanders is playing by other rules and the DNC that literally controls the system (ask and State Elections Board, they control everything after the election). Man he should be the president since he some how has managed to control the entire party despite the super delegates, media, and entrenched system.

[smiley]

26. He probably forced Hillary's delegates not to show up.

That's the only possible reason!

[KingFlorez]

27. Clinton won the state

If we are talking about who won the state, it's Clinton. Procedural issues don't change who actually won the state.

[smiley]

28. Delegate counts are what decides the winner correct?

Aren't those delegates required to attend the next level caucus? As I understand it, they are. If you have a link that shows me otherwise, then I welcome the information.

[northernsouthern]

29. Yeah I am not sure.

I have not heard of Super Delegates (or unpledged PLEOs as they call them) being used to swap a state's win or lose column (since they do not vote until the actual convention on the day the winner is decided and they just go popular. That being said I have heard many times of this. They say the state has flipped. So I think technically he may have won it by all the wording I have gotten from multiple state elections boards. One could say one candidate won it on election day or won the popular vote, but I do thing that it is still technically winning by EVERY official I have talked with in MULTIPLE states.

[northernsouthern]

30. Two questions about you earlier post.

You said...

Sanders is the only person that can win "retroactively"

Camp Sanders has it's own set of rules.

So first, no, just no. It has happened many times before, they have been posted in here about it occurring in 2008, Iowa had some changes too, it you want when I have more time I will locate the facts for you.

Secondly as for the rules? Can you please fill me in on them? Since you know them it would be good for me as a Sanders supporter to know them.

[geek tragedy]

35. primary results are 100% binding and can't be overruled by the delegate appointment process.

at the national convention, the pledged delegates will have to vote in exact accordance with the results of the primary voting

this stage is about appointing which delegates will be casting those votes. whoever those delegates are, they are obligated to vote for the candidate for whom they are pledged.

[northernsouthern]

37. Just wondering where you got your facts because they are incorrect.

As I posted earlier... (post 23)...these are the facts, you can post what you like, but this is the exact information they are giving out. You can call them too if you like.


So according to the Missouri board of election:

There are:

9 Pleo
15 At Large

(They are both bound by state and will not change.)

47 Congressional District

But they are NOT bound, Bernie has won ONE more delegate so far.

My source: Me, I talked to the DNC for the state.

Actually looking closer at your wording you may just not understand how it works...

at the national convention, the pledged delegates will have to vote in exact accordance with the results of the primary voting

You are correct only Unpledged PLEO can change their vote (excluding ones pledged to candidates that dropped out, but I think in Iowa they changed last time at the state level convention). But what you are completely missing is in many of the cause systems (including MO,NV, and WA) They can change in the Legislative level and then again at the State level. These are the unpledged CD delegates. States have certain amounts that are set to the initial state level election. You need to think about it, why else would they hold three of these before the national one? Also you know they CAN change at the the national level and in the general election depending on the circumstances.

[geek tragedy]

38. MO is a primary state not a caucus one.

State party rules very clear--primary vote is binding for all pledged delegates:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw8qd8A8ZSVLY0RGWFNtMlJkdXc/view?pref=2&pli=1

[northernsouthern]

39. It is so a caucus

Firstly below in the thing you used you will notice it is called a caucus...why because almost the entire election system is a caucus system including the general election.

District-level delegates and alternates shall be elected by a multi-tier caucus

and convention system to select delegates beginning on Thursday, April 7,

2016. Candidates must be elected from tier to tier in order to be a National

Convention delegate.

b. Congressional District

i. Congressional district conventions shall be held in each

congressional district in the State of Missouri on Thursday, April 28,

2016 at 7:30 p.m. District-level delegates to the National

Convention will be selected at these conventions.

Page 7

3. Apportionment of District-Level Delegates and Alternates

a. Missouri’s district-level delegates and alternates are apportioned as

follows: (Rule 8.A, Reg. 4.10, Reg. 4.11 & Appendix A)

(1) Divide the total number of votes obtained by all qualified

preferences in the number of votes obtained by each such

preference.

(2) Multiply such percentage of each qualified preference by the total

number of delegates to be selected by the mass meeting or

convention. Tabulate to three decimals.

(3) Each caucus shall be entitled to the number of delegates as

indicated by the integer (whole) number of the product, with any

remaining delegate being allotted, in order, to those caucuses

having the highest remainders. If such remainder shall be exactly

the same, the remaining delegate or delegates shall be selected by

lot.

Page 11

a. Presidential Primary - Proportional Representation Plan (Rule 13.A, Rule

13.B & Rule 13.D)

The Missouri’s presidential primary election is a “binding” primary.

Accordingly, delegate and alternate positions shall be allocated so

as to fairly reflect the expressed presidential (or uncommitted)

preference of the primary voters in each district. The National

Convention delegates and alternates selected at the district level

shall be allocated in proportion to the percentage of the primary

vote won in that district by each preference, except that

preferences falling below a 15% threshold shall not be awarded any

delegates or alternates.

Page 15

It just seems to talk about the initial selection of delegates as binding, it also goes in to alternates and such needing to be the same party and sex.

delegates.

In order to be elected as a District-Level Delegate to

the National Convention, one must first run at the

Ward, Township, Legislative District, and County

level. These meetings take place on April 7, 2016,

and the filing deadline to participate as a candidate

is March 31, 2016. If a candidate is elected at the

April 7, 2016 meetings, he or she is eligible to run at

the Congressional District Conventions. He or she

must file to run at the Congressional District

Conventions by April 14, 2016 with the State Party.

page 40

April 28 District-level delegates are selected at the Congressional District Conventions.

Page 44

So I searched the whole thing, there is nothing here to indicate anything they told me at the DNC is wrong. It was the April 7th caucus that somehow changed the totals and they said Bernie picked up one from what they could tell. They also said the April 28th is the day we will know for sure. If you look it matches the document being the day it is finalized from the current list as is. There is also a section that goes in to no proxies allowed in certain parts like the state level, which means binding or not, no person, not vote. It may have to do with the rules on getting a replacement, perhaps they lacked an alternate and it was not excused, so they basically fore go that vote. All I can say is this matches exactly what I was told. They flat out said so far he has gained one.

[geek tragedy]

40. No. You're just wrong on this.

Primary results are binding. Delegates allocated according to votes of primary voters. The end.

[northernsouthern]

41. Sooo...

I read the entire PDF you linked, provided notes, talked with both the DNC and the Elections board of the state...and that is your response? Ok, well then you are super wrong, no take-backs, I am rubber you are glue what ever you post bounces off me and sticks to you. The super-duper end. Mic-drop. Peace I am out. Oh and on the 27th we will know either way. And if you feel like 2 seconds of research open your document, hit "cntrl F" and look for "proxies"

A maximum total of 68 votes are available based on those in

attendance. Candidates to be elected as one of the 9 delegates to

the Democratic National Convention are to be divided by the

March 15, 2016 Presidential Primary statewide certified election

results. The members of the State Committee are to be separated

into Caucuses by Presidential Candidate preference. Only those

68 members can vote based only on those in attendance (no

proxies allowed). Each member may vote for the number of

candidates based on the number of Delegates allocated to that

caucus.

That is a simple sweet fact. Probably best not to link any more sources since you don't seem to read them anyways.

[geek tragedy]

44. The plain text of the document speaks for itself.

Delegate selection procedures have nothing to do with the candidate for whom those delegates must vote at the DNC.

Apportionment for pledged PLEO, pledged at large and district level delegates all must "fairly reflect" the votes cast on primary day. The primary is described as binding.

Again, it doesn't matter who gets chosen as delegates. They are still required to vote at the DNC according to the primary results, not their own preference.

The end.

[northernsouthern]

45. In your own words...

Apportionment for pledged PLEO, pledged at large and district level delegates all must "fairly reflect" the votes cast on primary day. The primary is described as binding.

Again as was told to me by the people running it he has in fact gained a delegate in the April 7th process when the people chosen in the binding process are narrowed down. I did not get further detail on how, but by the text you provided if a bound delegate does not show nor the alternate (they only have so many alternates) then the space may just be left empty as there is no one to fill it. That would result in an incident where there is a close tie (and it was one of their closest) switching. They are going to the next step at the end of April so that is when we will know for sure, but they said they will publish results the end of this week. And you also understand what no proxy is right? SO if you have to votes and one does not show what was a tie would be a 5/4 split and thus the tie is no longer a tie.

On a side note the fact that the Pleo and At large are divide up Hillary has a one point lead, so combined with the district delegates that mean it goes to 35 for Hillary vs 36 for Bernie. I am only quoting a person that works for the DNC that run this, so she could easily be wrong...but there is nothing that you provided here to prove me wrong. Also I am still waiting for you to say I was right about caucus, since I did link you the line from your document that proved me right. You should just admit it, you will feel better and it will make me feel good inside. That will start a whole chain reaction of good energy flowing through the DNC.

[geek tragedy]

47. I'll choose to believe my own lying eyes, kthxbai nt

[Godhumor]

46. You bolded the relevant section on page 11

The results are binding and proportional.

Right now each candidate is setting the number of delegates who are going to the convention, but that is simply the pool of delegates those that will be seated are drawn from. It doesn't matter of Bernie has more delegates selected right now, because one of Clinton's will be chosen to sit (I.e Hillary won 2 statewide delegates versus 1 for Bernie. At the district wide events Bernie ends up with ten delegates while Clinton has five. Two of the final delegates will be selected from Hillary's five and one from Bernie's ten.).

You can't flip delegates from a primary, you just can't. The race is settled.

[sadoldgirl]

36. Honestly, I don't understand this at all.

The party apparatus is very knowledgable about rules and
regulations and is generally supportive of Clinton.

I would have thought that a lot of young enthusiastic
people, who are mostly newcomers to the system would
have fumbled.

It is really a puzzle for me.

[Tarc]

42. Is this lie still being perpetuated?

Missouri delegates are bound, Sanders cannot net a thing from this.

[PeaceNikki]

48. kicking to offer OP the chance to delete - since it's blatantly false.

[SCantiGOP]

49. Clinton won

Delete OP or look really silly

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

50. It isn't false...

At the county conventions Sanders had more delegates show up in than Hillary.

[PeaceNikki]

51. Yes, it's 100% inaccurate. False. Untrue. Just like your post earlier about people here

"praising Voter ID".

Bunk. Erroneous. Fictitious. Imaginary. Untrue. Specious. Spurious.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

52. Did you see the final CD delegate allocation Bernie got 51% in that.

[PeaceNikki]

53. Which has ZERO bearing on the national delegate count.

The national delegate count is fixed from the Primary numbers. The local, congressional and state caucuses are really just a marketing tool to find new, active politically minded people who will continue to work with the party after the election.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

54. Well thanks for answering... no need to be rude next time when someone is unfamiliar with the rules.

[PeaceNikki]

55. That's freaking adorable that you think *I* am rude.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

56. I don't believe I have ever said anything rude to you

[PeaceNikki]

59. You've taken plenty of broad sweeping nasty jabs far more personal

And significantly more rude than anything I've said to you.

I'm done kicking this farce of a thread. Good day

[2banon]

58. As if Citizen's United wasn't bad enough,

This process has really revealed what a corrupt and rigged system it actually is.

I think our political revolution will need to take on this wholly undemocratic, banana republic style "election" process as the second front to political election reform.

[Rebkeh]

61. I will not be removing the OP

Any thread with this level of discussion and debate is worth keeping up, false or not. If nothing else, for informational purposes.

There is no violation of the TOS. It stays unless admin tells me otherwise.

[brooklynite]

60. NYT: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump Win in Missouri, Officially

Hillary Clinton pulled out a tight victory over Senator Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primary in Missouri, officially sweeping the states that held primary contests on March 15, while Donald J. Trump was declared the winner in a close race with Senator Ted Cruz on the Republican side.

Both candidates appeared to score narrow victories in Missouri, but under the state’s elections laws, the vote totals were not official until now.

The slim victory for Mrs. Clinton — 49.6 percent to 49.4 percent — is a capstone for what was a successful day. It also was something of a moral one for the former secretary of state, who lost there in 2008 to Senator Barack Obama.

Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Sanders are each expected to receive 34 delegates from the state.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/12/hillary-clinton-and-donald-trump-win-in-missouri-officially/

Jason Kander ?@JasonKander 7 hours ago
This morning I certified the presidential preference primary. @HillaryClinton and @realDonaldTrump have officially won Missouri.