2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThis Delaware Address Is Home to 200,000 SHELL Companies—INCLUDING Hillary Clinton’s
The address 1209 North Orange Street in Wilmington, Del., has become known in recent years as the epicenter of U.S. corporate secrecy. The squat, split-level building is the official address of over 285,000 companies, many of which are looking to take advantage of Delawares Panama-like secrecy rules, tax incentives, and business-friendly case law.
In the wake of the recent Panama Papers scandal, this unassuming brick office has received renewed scrutiny from the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Telegraph, and advocates for corporate tax reform.
But one of its tenants may come as a surprisea company owned by Democratic presidential frontrunner Hillary Clinton.
Hillary and Bill Clinton quietly set up two shell companies listed at 1209 North Orange Street in 2008 and 2013, the Washington Free Beacon has found. The names of the companies, but not their location, were first made public in tax filings released by Hillary Clinton last year.
According to records, one of the Clintons 1209 North Orange Street companies is WJC, LLC, which was set up by Bill Clinton in 2008 as a pass-through for his consulting fees.
Another company at the same location, ZFS Holdings, LLC, was set up in February 2013, one week after Hillary Clinton left the State Department. Hillary Clinton received $5.5 million from her book publisher, Simon & Schuster, through the company.
The 1209 North Orange Street building is the headquarters for the Corporation Trust Company. The firm acts as a registered agent for thousands of corporations that are not actually located in Delaware, including the Clintons companies.
Anti-secrecy advocates say the building is prime evidence that Delaware has become a corporate haven thats comparable to more well-known, offshore locales.
If you imagined a building with 1,000 corporations in it, youd imagine a building like the Empire State building, said Richard Phillips, a senior policy analyst with Citizens for Tax Justice. But apparently 285,000 companies claim [1209 North Orange Street] is their address.
What this shows is this is not really the address of companies that are doing real business. This is the address of a lot of companies that are just shell companies, he added. In this case, it doesnt even look like they have mailboxes. They just claim that address as the places theyre doing business, even though theyre not doing business there.
Similar registered agents have come under scrutiny in recent years. While campaigning in 2008, President Obama slammed the Ugland House, a five-story building in the Cayman Islands that is reportedly home to over 18,000 companies.
Thats either the biggest building in the world, or the biggest tax scam on record, said Obama.
The Clinton campaign declined to comment on why the Clintons, who live in New York and have no evident residential ties to Delaware, set up companies in the state. But the presidential candidate isnt alone. Experts say Delaware is the most popular place to register a company in the United States, due in part to its established system of business case law and tax incentives for intellectual property and real estate holdings.
One of the biggest draws may be the states lack of disclosure requirementsbusinesses can be created completely anonymously, allowing the owners to avoid public detection and even hide income from U.S. authorities.
Segami
(14,923 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Other people use shell companies for perfectly legitimate reasons, like to hide their holdings from creditors and to dodge taxes.
Stallion
(6,477 posts)which include revenue from the entities listed in article
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Stuff that links out from the shell?
ETA: Now it's up to 5 shell cos.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/five-clinton-shell-companies-established-in-del.-report/article/2588147
Stallion
(6,477 posts)on their individual returns. I'm an attorney not an accountant. But I bet there are probably some accountants that can fill in with some additional information. If they were trying to hide something they probably wouldn't have set them up as pass through entities
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Shell companies bring me flashbacks.
As a newspaper reporter during the early 90s, I helped document how one Michigan Savings & Loan was hijacked by crooks connected to the GOP, the DEMs, and the Mafia. The Houston journalist-author Pete Brewton chronicled the time, nationally.
At our local S&L -- the connected would show up for a "commercial" loan and all they'd have to do for collateral was show a deed to a high-rise as theirs. The fact that the actual owner's name was hidden by White-Out and was still visible on the photocopy really was no problem. In this example, a guy got $6.5 million to start a business he had no intention of starting.
After cashing the check, the fella distributed the cash to his hidden partners who disappeared the dough to the Caymans and beyond. When the original guy couldn't pay the loan back, he declared bankruptcy. No problem for the S&L, though, as the money would be put back into the S&L's accounts, thanks to the U.S. taxpayer backing the FSLIC.
It was Buy Partisan legalized bank robbery, conducted by cronies of politicians, independents and the Mafia. The S&L lootings went on across the country, costing taxpayers about a trillion bucks. At the time, it was the biggest bank heist in history.
Background from the 1980s:
Know your BFEE: They Looted Your Nation s S&Ls for Power and Profit
Modern version 2008:
Know your BFEE: Phil Gramm, the Meyer Lansky of the War Party, Set-Up the Biggest Bank Heist Ever.
Here's a good summary of why I still try:
Know your BFEE: Spawn of Wall Street and the Third Reich
They have gotten away with lying America into war; made fortunes unimagined in scale and scope from laws they helped write and enact; created an economic system based on finance rather than production of material wealth in which those of us still able and qualified for indentured servitude will march into their new world as submissive serfs. When I see the current leadership doing favors for and business with Wall Street and Swiss banks, I got to wonder.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Seems like a bit of BS is going on here... Kill the messenger... Or Source? If The Story is true... Then It IS TRUE No matter what the source is! Are you going to hide THIS OP? I think that my "hide" should be rescinded!
Raising a question here... Response?
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)HOW IS IT THAT MY EXACT SAME POST WAS HIDDEN?
CAN ANYONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT... THE RATIONALE... SEEMS MAYBE "SELECTIVE?"
TM99
(8,352 posts)I can get insults and called a hypocrite all day.
Then I say a Clinton support is, and my post is juried by the same guy I said it about instead of debating me.
Yes, it is selective. Yes, it is a game. Yes, this site is biased towards Clinton and her supporters even though the majority are Sanders voters.
Such is life in the New Dem universe.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)That is it... "babies" incapable of debating... Get all flummuxed when faced with FACTS!
Segami
(14,923 posts)Its pertinent info regarding current claims and positions of Hillary Clinton....
Why should it be hidden?.....Has David Brock now purchased DU?
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Thoughts?
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)I would appreciate an explanation... from an authority figure... such as the case may be...
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)I see no reason to hide facts.
Hopefully Segami's post will get a fairer jury.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Those are essentially an "explanation". But it's the luck of the draw sometimes.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)posts which are clearly legitimate.
Make sure he is aware of your hide.
ETA: you linked to a RW source, hence the hide.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)A Single Delaware Address is Home to 200,000 Shell Companies... Hmm... What's That About?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511710495
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Source: Washington Free Beacon. Should be an automatic hide on DU.
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Apr 11, 2016, 10:51 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: sorry - the level of journalism has disappeared on both sides. Freebeacon, Daily News Bin, Daily Beast. This one is no worse than any of the others.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I have never seen a more ridiculous attempt to censor information for the matter that it is inconvenient or embarrassing.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: RW propaganda site
Per Wiki: The Atlantic's Conor Friedersdorf called the Free Beacon's stated mission "decadent and unethical." Media Matters for America founder David Brock sent a letter to news organizations in 2014 saying, "If credible media outlets regard the unethical practices of The Free Beacon as valid, all of journalism will be debased."
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
CONSEQUENCES OF THIS DECISION
You will no longer be able to participate in this discussion thread, and you will not be able to start a new discussion thread in this forum until 11:51 PM. This hidden post has been added to your <a href="/?com=profile&uid=315041&sub=trans">Transparency page</a>.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)If you see something from them, google the story and get a different source.
Really it is that simple. No conspiracy at all.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Seems there is a "skew" toward protecting the Hillary Clinton image from tarnish by incoming FACTS AND TRUTH!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511710495
edgineered
(2,101 posts)We can rec hidden posts, and in this case we should.
Here's the link for yours:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511710495
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)The Person Who Alerted Should Show Who They Are In This Case! Show A Little Courage!
Be accountable when you err! Just because the source is not approved by you, does not mean if the facts are intact that a post should be hidden.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Title: A Single Delaware Address is Home to 200,000 Shell Companies... Hmm... What's That About?
Including 2 of Hillary and Bill Clintons ....imagine that...
"Hillary and Bill Clinton quietly set up two shell companies listed at 1209 North Orange Street in 2008 and 2013, the Washington Free Beacon has found.
The names of the companies, but not their location, were first made public in tax filings released by Hillary Clinton last year.
According to records, one of the Clintons 1209 North Orange Street companies is WJC, LLC, which was set up by Bill Clinton in 2008 as a pass-through for his consulting fees.
Another company at the same location, ZFS Holdings, LLC, was set up in February 2013, one week after Hillary Clinton left the State Department. Hillary Clinton received $5.5 million from her book publisher, Simon & Schuster, through the company."
Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/single-delaware-address-home-200000-shell-companies-including-2-hillary-clintons/#7YaBc8s6QZIkXiYy.99
Segami
(14,923 posts)It definitely doesn't pass the sniff test CorporatistNation.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)No Hillary ass-kissing media outlet would dare be one of the first to report on this. I'm guessing your link was visible, unlike this OP and it was RW.
Regardless, its good its getting out there.
The Clintons are corrupt on countless levels. People should know, even if its difficult for them to accept.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)[b]The Clintons are using 5 shell companies to save on taxes in Delaware
There is nothing illegal about the Clintons' decision to take advantage of Delaware's tax laws. However, on the campaign trail last week, Hillary Clinton criticized the "super-rich" who use "outrageous tax havens and loopholes" to pay fewer taxes. She pledged that, as president, she would "shut down the so-called private tax system for the mega-wealthy," including legal tax avoidance activities, in order to "make sure that everyone pays their fair share here in America." Bonnie Kristian
http://theweek.com/speedreads/617761/clintons-are-using-5-shell-companies-save-taxes-delaware
I hope this link has enough journalistic integrity for some.
It's so funny that people are obsessed with Jane and Bernie's taxes (for a few hundred thousand) but this is A-ok. This is proof she is not going to change any of this!
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Thanks!
Maraya1969
(22,753 posts)down because it was supposed to be in the "Primaries" So I put it in the Primaries and it was shut down there.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)!
xloadiex
(628 posts)have a copy of the jury results? I would be interested in seeing if any reasons were given for the hide.
I wasn't on this jury. Funny, I haven't been called for almost a month.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)On Mon Apr 11, 2016, 10:47 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
A Single Delaware Address is Home to 200,000 Shell Companies... Hmm... What's That About?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511710495
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Source: Washington Free Beacon. Should be an automatic hide on DU.
JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Apr 11, 2016, 10:51 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: sorry - the level of journalism has disappeared on both sides. Freebeacon, Daily News Bin, Daily Beast. This one is no worse than any of the others.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I have never seen a more ridiculous attempt to censor information for the matter that it is inconvenient or embarrassing.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: RW propaganda site
Per Wiki: The Atlantic's Conor Friedersdorf called the Free Beacon's stated mission "decadent and unethical." Media Matters for America founder David Brock sent a letter to news organizations in 2014 saying, "If credible media outlets regard the unethical practices of The Free Beacon as valid, all of journalism will be debased."
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I don't think Sanders is going to Rome..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511708064
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
known serial crap starter with well over a dozen hides, now is using a Breitbart article to stir the crap yet again
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Apr 11, 2016, 03:54 PM, and voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT ALONE.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No TOS, even if I wish there were. Using Breitbart news is really unfortunate, grasping at it to support ones political objective is unfortunate.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Let people discuss this. There's no need to hide it. Y'know, both Bernie and Francis want a better world. Hillary, not so much it seems.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: if bernie people are going to post crap about hillary they should be able to take it from them
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh noes, someone disagreed with Sanders! To the alert stations!
I was the only one that voted to hide it, right wing source means nothing if you are a Hillary supporter with 15 hides under your belt.
edgineered
(2,101 posts)As can be seen by the comments on this alert, the current population is sick of the stupid:
On Mon Apr 11, 2016, 11:14 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
This Delaware Address Is Home to 200,000 SHELL CompaniesINCLUDING Hillary Clintons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511710720
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Source: Washington Free Beacon (interesting notice no link this time). This post was already hidden, http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511710495 this shit has no place on DU.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Apr 11, 2016, 11:19 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Honestly, choosing to alert instead of trashing a thread or putting someone on your IL indicates the alerter doesn't understand how to accept differences of opinion.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm tired of this McCarthyism -- and that's what it is when someone attacks the source in lieu of addressing the substance. If this statement is false, refute it. If it's taken out of context, provide the additional facts. If it's true, provide your explanation or commentary.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Regardless of source, true or not true? If a candidate is saying they will make corporations and people pay taxes, and they shelter their own, isn't that good to know?
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)and that no one knows what HYPOCRITES the Clintons are.
Too late. It's been well tweeted.
Segami
(14,923 posts)It could easily spin out of control.
buckle up!.........
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)when articles and issues arise, for which there is not yet concrete guidance on how to spin it. ...if you catch my drift.
Tomorrow is another day and I'm sure fresh talking points will be ready to go by mid-day.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)they go to their corner, say that we're pathetic and desperate, and then come out tomorrow with stupid attacks.
Segami
(14,923 posts)Segami
(14,923 posts)Zira
(1,054 posts)from a UK paper - 3 paragraphs and the link.
Guess Hillarians didn't like it that it was anti hillary.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)and yet ... they want this person to attain the most powerful elected office in the world.
What do they have against the American people that they would do this to us?
Something is very, very wrong. How can we get to the bottom of it?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)And by "Her" I don't necessarily mean Hillary. They're stuck with Hillary, but she's a she.
senz
(11,945 posts)"When posts like that one get hidden, you KNOW somethin's up?"
edgineered
(2,101 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)Gomez163
(2,039 posts)What's next? Free Republic?
840high
(17,196 posts)Gomez163
(2,039 posts)Stallion
(6,477 posts)As a litigation attorney with 30 years of experience its pretty spot on. This is a laughable series of articles that originated in right wing papers without any substance. I've posted several other comments in the several threads on this issues but getting tired of responding to the ridiculous assertions in these threads. No attorney would find this of any legal substance-PERIOD. Its simply a commercial registered agent that provides essentially a mailbox within a state in order to facilitate the service of legal documents within a state. ALL THESE THREADS should be hidden because they are insinuating unethical conduct on purely common business practices that is designed to COMPLY-not DISREGARD state law. The Comments to the article suggest that Reddit's posters maybe a tad more business sophisticated than the DU crowd because there are plenty of confirming comments from other attorneys and persons knowledgeable about corporate affairs
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/4eb8dr/this_delaware_address_is_home_to_200000_shell/d1yle3w
chascarrillo
(3,897 posts)Contrast that to the random redditor's "Delaware isn't a tax haven"
Stallion
(6,477 posts)except that they share a common commercial registered agent and registered agent. The tax returns of these Clinton corporations are posted on-line.
chascarrillo
(3,897 posts)Stallion
(6,477 posts)from these LLCs and other sources
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Money has it's privileges.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)No need to wait just google.
Stallion
(6,477 posts)nm
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Always seemed kind of silly since we still had to pay business taxes for actually operating in Virginia.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Obviously not really "mine" but my employer, though I do own some stock.
Stallion
(6,477 posts)which is different than state of incorporation. Need a registered agent and registered address (such as CT Corp) in those states too
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)Stallion
(6,477 posts)this is a ridiculous thread with posters with limited knowledge of common business practices jumping to uneducated conclusions
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)Arizona Roadrunner
(168 posts)There is only one reason you register in Delaware instead of a State you live in. You are trying to evade or avoid something. They really know how to relate to the average person.......
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)Main reason most companies register in DE has little to do with tax avoidance. It is the corporate legal structure that is the attraction.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)which since its cnn of course they wont, bernie has to. she will blow and it will all come out on national tv
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)edgineered
(2,101 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)the public will gift the benefit of the doubt if someone proves they are trustworthy, but if it is lost it is natural for people to be suspicious. They make their own hell.
ALittleBirdie
(91 posts)TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)Snarkoleptic
(6,003 posts)One would think that, out of an abundance of caution, those in the political sphere would go to great lengths to avoid the appearance of impropriety.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appearance_of_impropriety