2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhat would it take for a Hillary follower to switch to Bernie?
Would he need to lie about being under sniper fire like Hillary did?
Maybe he could lie to unions saying he'd fight the Colombia Free Trade Agreement, only to have it revealed later he lobbied for it like Hillary?
Maybe he could lie about guns in New York being from Vermont, like Hillary did?
Use shell companies like Hillary?
Be involved in an FBI investigation like Hillary?
Mishandled classified information like Hillary?
Negotiate arms deals with countries as they coincidentally donate to an organization he's associated with like Hillary and the Clinton Foundation?
Maybe if he had not been in favor of LGBT rights until 2013 like Hillary did?
What if he had ran a racist campaign against Obama in 2008, but used him as a shield in 2016? Hillary did.
Oh, maybe if he would just cherry-pick some of her votes on complex multi-issue bills to misrepresent her stances? Seemed to work for Hillary with minutemen, the crime bill, and welfare reform.
Refuse to release transcripts of paid speeches that he received millions for? Hillary followers sure seem to like secret speeches.
Maybe crack racist jokes in a scripted skit reviewed and approved by his staff? That seems to endear many Hillary followers to her.
What if instead of getting arrested for protesting segregation, he also skipped marching with King and instead campaigned for Goldwater? Hillary fans seem to like that.
Maybe if he changed his positions on the reg and even one day says he was a moderate, then next day has conservative roots, and the next day said he was progressive - like Hillary did. Would that entice you guys?
Perhaps staging a photo-op in the subway to capitalize on a fake controversy and show he was a man of the people by having his entourage shove a girl away from the subway car she was about to board? Worked for Hillary...
Start a "Victory Fund" to bribe super-delegates and avoid the 2700 donation cap in order to funnel money into his campaign. Seems to be working for Hillary.
Seriously, what would it take? I mean, it looks like Hillary has already done as many lies and corruptions as there are in existence and her followers seem to relish in it. She seems just shy of kicking puppies on camera. What would it take?
metroins
(2,550 posts)He'd need a credible chance at winning the nomination, which he doesn't. His campaign strategy was flawed from the beginning, which shows poor leadership. Hillary is 2 million votes ahead and a heck of a lot of delegates ahead.
I could switch to Bernie if I viewed his policies as getting passed and helping down ticket Democrats win the house/senate.
Honestly, Hillary is the smartest person running, which is why I back her. She is similar to Obama.
revbones
(3,660 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)which seems to be their answer of choice.
revbones
(3,660 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)No doubt Hillary is smart, but it's how she uses that trait that is the problem. She uses it for personal enrichment and power. Which would be fine if she admitted she's really a Rockefeller republican.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)LMFAO, that is just laughable. He has a hard time answering questions.
Loudestlib
(980 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Hillary answers every question differently depending on the polls.
Bernie thinks about things and isn't going to give out un-thought out responses. Hillary just says what the audience wants to hear--especially if they pay enough.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)shows that eh?
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)back on the People.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)being a very serious contender who has closed the gap very narrowly.
That's 'pretty damned good for a "flawed" campaign.
metroins
(2,550 posts)This was his last chance at running and he has had no credible path to nomination since Super Tuesday. He's never been higher than 15% chance.
Sanders didn't gain any traction until around January. He should've had that momentum in September.
He didn't focus enough on southern large delegate states early. All of the candidates, except Trump, wasted too much time on Iowa. Sanders should've been building in the south.
Sanders has been in politics for 30 years. He should've been building a campaign years ago.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Goldman-Sachs. The banks ripped off the 99% for close to 5 trillion dollars and nothing has been done about it. Clinton is fine with the status quo which has no way of preventing another "bank failure".
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Oh please, there should realistically have never been any opportunity for Bernie Sanders to be president. The fact he's where he is now is an unbelievable achievement.
metroins
(2,550 posts)The field was realistically 3.
All he had to do was beat Hillary and O'Malley a much weaker field than Obama had in 2008.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)He was an independent senator with no party support, no money and with an ideology considered by the media to be so wildly extreme (idiotically) that he was treated as a joke candidate. That 'joke candidate' is now damn near level with the most powerful, most connected and most financially supported member of the Democratic Party. That is beyond incredible.
senz
(11,945 posts)Hill acquired a lust/obsession for the White House while living in it as Bill's wife. As soon as she left it, she looked around for an open Senate seat and carpetbagged to New York to snatch it, riding on a famous name and a powerful spouse. After two unremarkable terms marred by the devastating IWR vote, she ran a shockingly dirty campaign against Barack Obama and then finagled SOS from his desire to "keep his enemies even closer." Conducting herself lawlessly and recklessly (personal email server, Libya screwup, special deals for weapons manufacturers and 3rd world countries who stuffed her family coffers with dough), she kept her 2016 candidacy alive by building a personal fortune and a reputation as one who should not be crossed, played power politics all over D.C. until she was considered "inevitable."
Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders, a hardworking, reliable, highly trusted Senator from Vermont, saw a Democratic field dominated by an avowed corporatist and decided to enter in hopes of moving her, and the national discussion, back to the liberal Democratic middle. His refusal to accept superPAC sponsorship meant he had to raise money in small donations from the people, and his anti-corporatist views made him anathema to the MSM, so with no money and no media recognition, he threw his hat in the ring.
What he has done since then, with odds like that, has been remarkable. He is incredibly skillful.
As well as being a person of integrity.
metroins
(2,550 posts)There is a ton of misinformation in your post and the vitriol towards Hillary is unbecoming.
I don't want a President who "wasn't interested".
Bernie continues to solicit donations with the rhetoric that he can win, when clearly he will not be the nominee. He then spends that money attacking Hillary and pays Tad Devine 800k.
It's literally saddens me how Bernie fundraises on the backs of people while lying about his chances.
I'd rather take money from the 1% then from a single mom trying to make ends meet.
senz
(11,945 posts)and he is committed to carrying it through. In case you haven't noticed, he is working his ass off -- and he doesn't have millions of dollars with which to purchase aides and surrogates to write up his policies and do his work for him. As he has stated from the beginning, he is running for the purpose of starting a political revolution in this country. He wants to take America back from the very wealthy and multinational corporations who now run it and return it to the people -- as our founders intended.
Bernie's supporters know what an uphill battle it has been, but we send him money because we want him to stay in the race. We believe in what he is doing. If he were to drop out before it's over, most of us would feel cheated.
You write:
That statement is profoundly dishonest. Talk about unbecoming.
The "single moms trying to make ends meet" are sending their $27 to Bernie because they know he cares more about them than about Wall Street billionaires and multinational corporations.
He is very, very different from his opponent and that is why we want him to take this as far as he possibly can -- hopefully to the White House where he will work for the 99% -- and not the 1%.
If you find misinformation in what I write, point it out and refute it with proof.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)things are, because they know the only things she can get done are things Republicans favor, like your list above.
Just more deception from the Clinton crowd.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)who said that if this was the '80s he would be considered a moderate Republican.Raygun was a moderate R.
I didn't care for moderate R's then,nor do I now.
Joob
(1,065 posts)with people, by having people vote locally in their states for people who will represent them. He wants to push change through force of the people. We won't expect him to get this done all by himself or with the white house. He's asking that we stand with him and help to change our country by doing what most citizens should be doing. Voting.
metroins
(2,550 posts)He's been in politics for 30 years. He's just now starting his "revolution" but hasn't done much of the down ticket work for those 30 years.
I'm just not buying it and I don't believe him.
Joob
(1,065 posts)It actually makes me sad not knowing how long he has been fighting, and then seeing him fighting for us in the past from videos on youtube. Videos of him bringing up the things that we care about today.. And then the saddest part is when everyone walks out on him and he ends up in the room by himself. No one listened. No one cared. He did.
I urge you to watch through any of those videos. actually Here's one, and there are many more.
Martin Eden
(15,631 posts)Iraq?
Did she know about PNAC, and was she able to see through the LIES being fed to the American people about Saddam being allied with al Qaeda?
Did she have any inkling what would happen after regime change in Iraq ... or Libya ... or Syria?
Which answer is more incriminating:
a) She didn't know about the PNAC agenda and had no idea what could happen after regime change
b) She's very smart and understood all this, but pushed for it anyway
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)What it would take is Bernie giving me plans for solving problems that are better.
If I could look at his proposals for health care, or college, or anything else and not have major questions about if they would even work, let alone how they would pass, I would certainly think about it.
But right now, Bernie's plans have too many questions for me to think they're at all feasible.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Is it a medical condition that takes hold in these circumstances that prevents a Hillary follower from seeing anything negative about her? that would explain a LOT.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)That said, I'm sure we'll see some Hillary followers post some things that are quite untrue, but then that's all they have...
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
revbones
(3,660 posts)Nice try though. lol
realmirage
(2,117 posts)snide attack dogs like you that ignore Hillary supporters' concerns with Bernies lack of detail that stain Bernies campaign and virtually assure his demise in the primaries to come. You won't vote for Hillary anyway, at least stop trying to help the republicans win
revbones
(3,660 posts)Nor does it change that you aren't able to dispute a single one.
But you should feel free to carry on with your head in the sand.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)But your fail is complete. You asked what it would take, but you're not interested in a response. Enjoy your trip back to hackville
revbones
(3,660 posts)I did ask what it would take. Since you didn't respond to that with anything more than juvenile name-calling I'm sure you'll admit your own complete fail there right?
And you also ignored all the questions in the post as well. I'm sure in addition to believing the sky is purple, that you'll credit yourself a win for that...
rofl.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Just doesn't get it. Do you know what logic is?
revbones
(3,660 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)Doesn't match your content. That's something you should have learned in grade school. Last attempt to explain it to you. Adios
revbones
(3,660 posts)Each is a question as to whether if Bernie would do that, perhaps it might help with Hillary followers since they seem to like that she's done each of those things.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)... you didn't ask for a point by point refutation, right? You asked us what would get us to consider switching to Bernie. They're entirely different questions.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)of a guy who can't connect his headline to the content of his post. I wonder what his middle school writing assignments were like?
"Why frogs have long legs," by revbones
Did you know that frogs are evil creatures that can poison you? In this essay I, revbones, will tell you why they are evil....
revbones
(3,660 posts)was just name-calling and ignored both the original question and all the ones listed. So I'm not sure of your point here.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Yea, you're a real liberal.
Blue Meany
(1,947 posts)From what I can see in her position papers, she, like many politicians, has a plan for every problem, each with a few bullet points. But none of the actions she proposes to take appear to me to be equal to the problems they are supposed to solve. Instead, the appear to be a checklist to pander to different consituencies without really changing anything in substantive ways.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)haven't read up enough. It's very detailed
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Your OP is merely annoying to Hillary supporters.
Godhumor
(6,437 posts)I'm not an idiot, I know what is at stake in November.
Switching during the primary? Not happening.
Arkansas Granny
(32,265 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)I hear you there
hamsterjill
(17,578 posts)I haven't seen anything yet that makes me believe Hillary will NOT be the nominee, either.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)If he gets the nomination I'll vote for him. His supporters here have so completely turned me off him, I wont even consider him in the primary.
MFM008
(20,042 posts)exactly.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Stuckinthebush
(11,203 posts)But, I agree. If he wins the nomination then I'll gladly vote for him although I can't stand listening to him.
I will fight my ass off for him. Why? Because I'm not an idiot and know that the GOP in power would be catastrophic.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Never mind the HRC followers on this site. Your eloquent and logical post is probably lost on them.
Clearly there has been a shift to Sanders. It continues. We can only work for it and hope it will be enough.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Thanks for the response. Much appreciated.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Let's see if you really do love your country or will let it be destroyed by Cruz. If you think there's no difference, you really know nothing about politics
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Welcome to DU?!
realmirage
(2,117 posts)delicious when birds are flying. That's a non sequitur.
My post, on the other hand, makes perfect sense. When Bernie loses, support any democrat to save the country from 8 more years of republican destruction
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)if you believe that then someone has really washed your brain good. Go online now and research it. You'll be amazed
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)amongst her foreign policy advisors? You can't get any more Republican that that.
Are you aware that Blankfein and Dimon are amongst her financial backers? You can't get any more Republican than that.
Now, go online and research these things rather than:

hollysmom
(5,946 posts)first it was the passion,then it was the ideas.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)aren't based on fantasy accounting.
Bernie blinders don't allow for logical responses
DeGreg
(72 posts)anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)...and have followers that were able to discern between fact and fiction, and - I'll give you - normal human error.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Have joined the Democratic party long ago, but stridently avoid adherring to anything one might credit to democrats - like Hillary has done because living up to those ideals that used to be credited to Democrats doesn't mean anything.
Or would you rephrase to include shifting the party to be much more corporate and big-business-friendly like Hillary has done?
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)An independent in name only in many ways
He caucused with the Democrats for, 16 years in the United States House of Representatives, 10 years in the United States Senate;
where he served on many committees Representing the Democratic party such as the:
Committee on the Budget (Ranking Member)
Committee on Environment and Public Works
Subcommittee on Clean Air and Nuclear Safety
Subcommittee on Green Jobs and the New Economy
Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Subcommittee on Energy
Subcommittee on National Parks
Subcommittee on Water and Power
Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
Subcommittee on Children and Families
Subcommittee on Primary Health and Aging (Ranking Member)
Committee on Veterans' Affairs (chairman)
He has every right to expect respect from those he served with such loyalty and in so many capacities.
The Democratic party must consider him a true blue ally to have given him seats on so many committees.
He was also a founder of the Democratic Progressive caucus.
It appears to me the only one's that are offended by his former Independent status are all the Moderate Republicans that are far less honest and register as "Democrats" while voting for Republican policy, those "Democrats" are most often both conservative and liars.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Blankfein and Dimon as financial backers as fact, fiction, or normal human error?
yourout
(8,824 posts)I said some........
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)...and since he's smarter than a bunch of anonymous bloggers, he won't waste my time pitching head-to-head polls.
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)He could back away from his admiration for Castro.
Could admit that he voted to topple Saddam in 1999.
Could admit that he voted for war appropriations for Iraq and Afghanistan in 2001.
Could admit that he argued against DOMA on states rights grounds, meaning that states should be free to discriminate or not.
Could admit that he voted to support the anti-immigrant vigilante Minutemen.
Could apologize for opposing the Brady bill 5x.
Could retreat from his belief that gun manufacturers should have special privileges to avoid liability.
Could release his tax returns.
Could explain why he chose to be an independent rather than work to change the Democratic Party.
Could explain why he was largely absent from the political scene from the mid-60s to the early 80s, when there was so much civil rights activism.
Could apologize more fully for his ghetto remark.
Could explain why he chose to flee from where the battles were being fought to go to an overwhelmingly white state.
Could explain his support the for $1 trillion waste-of-money stealth bomber.
There's probably more, but let's face it, up until now he really has not held the difficult posts that Hillary has held and primarily represented white liberals, so he had a pretty easy time sticking to his agenda.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Explain her being under sniper fire. When you're done, I'll take one of yours.
artyteacher
(598 posts)Of sniper fire upon landing and I think they actually moved some things around to make it safer.
revbones
(3,660 posts)But she did not. She very specifically said "I remember landing under sniper fire." The video is easily accessible just by googling. She took it even further talking about how they "ran with their heads down..." This is despite the video of the greeting ceremony.
artyteacher
(598 posts)And they told me there might be sniper fire... Upon landing, I might remember it as I landed under sniper fire.
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)... My issue with Bernie is with his supporters who seem to worship him as much as Trump supporters worship him. I think that's dangerous. God knows, Hillary has made her share of mistakes. Her mistakes are magnified since she had such high profile positions. Sanders really wasn't covered nearly to the extent that Hillary was, but despite that he's done a number of objectionable things.
As far as the sniper fire goes, my guess is she lied to battle the sexism that a woman doesn't have the courage to be CiC, but it's also possible she was truly scared (which distorts the memory) and a woman candidate can't admit to being scared. The case for the latter is that it was a dumb lie, since she knew that the event was being videoed by CBS. Regardless, she did not tell the truth and deserves criticism for it.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I'd suggest a little more research and critical independent thinking. Your reasons for them for the most part lack context. or are flat out wrong.
I could refute at least 3/4 if I had the time and inclination.
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)Of course, you'd say that without evidence. Everything I wrote is flat-out true. That doesn't maker Bernie bad. In fact, I support him, but I really dislike the worship of him. And, no, you couldn't refute what I wrote. You might be able to rationalize it, just as Hillary supporters rationalize some of her bad choices, but that's all.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)ecstatic
(35,075 posts)dchill
(42,660 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)And you'll have the answer you need. Or just look in a mirror for the definition
revbones
(3,660 posts)Tarc
(10,601 posts)IamMab
(1,359 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Hillary can't even get close to that.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Smart, ignorant, fanciful, whimsical, protest, gender, race, policies, particular issues, wealth, lack of wealth, tone of voice, electability, duty, apathy, trust, party loyalty, travel plans, religion, principles, education, philosophy, record, etc, etc, etc.
The other option is not to vote.
Just remember that it's your vote. Not owned by or owed to, any candidate or party.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)artyteacher
(598 posts)quickesst
(6,309 posts)... but then, I have never been tempted to join any religion.
LiberalFighter
(53,544 posts)Sanders to stop lying about his stances.
For Jeff Weaver and Tadd Devine to resign.
For trolls to stop harassing DU members and passing around false information.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, tch tch. Truth hurts huh?
LiberalFighter
(53,544 posts)In this case cyber bullying.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I do not think he is genuine.... He has lied soooo much there is no way I could trust anything from him.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)that he can't deliver.
He'd also have to convince me he cares about workers in poor countries, not just his seemingly Nationalistic approach to America First the hell with everyone else.
I'd like him to speak out against guns.
I'd like to see his detailed calculations of how he is going to go from $3 Trillion in health care expenditures annually here to the $1.38 Trillion he uses to make single payer sound cheap. I'd like him to quit talking about the middle class and talk more about poor people.
It would be nice if he were a real Democrat, not just tagging along for a ride, but it's a bit late for that.
I guess I'd also like him to ask the Pope to pray for us when he meets with him in the next few days.
There's more, but I don't think you or any of his supporters are really interested.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)He'd need to be remotely viable by the time my states primary comes around. Which is truly doubtful. And if he wins the primary- of course I will vote for him.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)You should add some CAPS and bold so we can really feel your pain.
revbones
(3,660 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)rock
(13,218 posts)You BSers would have to stop lying about Hillary with every breath you take.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)But that ain't happening.
LuvLoogie
(8,815 posts)floriduck
(2,262 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)That might do it. But can it be developed in adulthood? Unlikely.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Oh, I thought you were talking about superdelegates.
ecstatic
(35,075 posts)I liked both candidates. Obama's supporters were super positive and welcoming--but more importantly, candidate Obama was exceptional. Truly outstanding. That is what made it easy to switch.