2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIf Bernie can't figure out how to work the nominating process ...
... how can we reasonably expect him to master the machinations of the office he seeks?
I get that he's running against a broken system and the establishment that supports it.
But, we need a candidate that can figure out how to circumvent all the obstacles the establishment has thrown up without alienating the institutions it will need to be successful.
Bernie has run hotter than expected, but is still falling far short in those regards.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)salinsky
(1,065 posts)... they are both fueled by populism, but neither candidates understand how to manipulate the institutions they seek to lead, nor how to operate the levers of power should they succeed.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Pray tell what levers of power Hillary has operated. Well, wars, yeh, you counting that?
Comparing Bernie to Trump is asinine. Your guy Jon Stewart would rip you to pieces.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... wouldn't you expect him to understand how to win within the party apparatus in which he chose to run?
Shouldn't he have studied and emulated Obama's insurgent campaign?
Shouldn't he have known he would need to do some monumental coalition building with people of color to be successful?
When asked how he would govern in 2008, Obama responded, "watch how I campaign".
Watching how Sanders is campaigning doesn't even begin to reveal a recipe for success on the national level.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Possible conclusions:
His opponent is not a good campaigner even with DNC/DWS in the bag for her, and is just not very much liked or trusted
or
He's done a damn good job campaigning
or
a combination of both.
Oh, I'm sorry, that's logic. I couldn't think of a simpler way to put it so you'd understand. My apologies.
Make an honest post and you won't get sarcasm back.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... he's done well.
But, that's not the same as organizing the coalition you need and winning.
So, he's failed.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Renew Deal
(81,852 posts)And taking red meat positions.
Renew Deal
(81,852 posts)He might not be losing as badly if he chose to compete.
thesquanderer
(11,982 posts)He saw that his message did not resonate sufficiently to be able to persuade the number of voters he was looking for. So he decided to put more resources into states where those resources would better pay off, and not commit a lot of resources to states where he wouldn't do well no matter what.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)continue throughout his administration.
What he really started was a following that thought they could manufacture reality.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... to run.
That being to enhance their brands.
And, now they find themselves totally unprepared for what comes next.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)He is already a senator. He was enhancing his brand to achieve that position between senator and president?
What position is that pray tell?
Do you think the tiniest bit before you post this shit?
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... of white privilege from their money.
Maybe he's preparing for a second career selling reverse mortgages like Fred Thompson did?
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)salinsky
(1,065 posts)... he just has a certain skill set which is appealing to a certain demographic.
I think he's very much qualified to sell reverse mortgages.
frylock
(34,825 posts)uponit7771
(90,329 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)with this piss poor equivalencies and analogies.
What 'brand' is Sanders pushing? Come on, lay it out for us Einstein, this I have got to hear!
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)uponit7771
(90,329 posts)... horrible implementation
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
IamMab
(1,359 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)jmousso75
(71 posts)Really.............??????|
You need a candidate who can circumvent obstacles the establishment has thrown up yet you are voting for the establishment? The Clinton's have been okey doking people for the last 20 years.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Blame that on the "establishment" all you want. Such a wore out line.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)Avalux
(35,015 posts)Bernie has navigated the halls of congress and the procedural processes therein to get things done for decades; how do you explain that if your assessment is correct? It doesn't hold water.
You should be more concerned about someone who, as SoS, thought it was OK to circumvent the government's email system and run her own, carelessly placing official correspondence somewhere it didn't belong.
salinsky
(1,065 posts).... is quite a bit different than being Senator from Vermont.
A little more complicated.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)He has an amazing history and his campaign is a phenomenon - in the past year, Bernie has done something he was told was impossible, and against a shitload of big money roadblocks. He would have crashed and burned a long time ago if he was the person you say he is. You can disagree with Bernie, but to imply he's not qualified is ludicrous.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)That's Bernie's terminology, not mine.
Of course, he's qualified.
They both are.
He just doesn't seem to grasp where the power lies, how to wrestle control over it, and how to wield it once you have it.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)salinsky
(1,065 posts)Avalux
(35,015 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)if he won't suckle at the corporate teat and play rat-fucking quid pro quo games, then he isn't qualified?
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... There's lots of jobs for which I'm qualified, but I wouldn't be particularly good at some of them.
He's not particularly good at this.
Yes you are. In the same way that Clinton is discrediting and disqualifying him by intimidating, implying, and suggesting without directly saying that he is not qualified.
And your second sentence is even more ridiculous. If I am qualified for a job, then I am good at the work that is expected of me. That is what it fundamentally means to be qualified for a job.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... there's something for which he'd be totally qualified ...
... and, he'd be good at it.
He knows how to speak to the target demographic.
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)You've got to be joking. He's still tring to keep 20 years of it a secret.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)who can't even respond to an editorial board on his pet issues and accomplished next to nothing in all the years he's been in office.
There's a reason next to no one in Congress is endorsing him.
But you go on with your email nonsense.
You know, let's forget all the cheating that Sanders' campaign has engaged in...
Sanders' campaign can't even follow FEC regulations.
pressbox69
(2,252 posts)salinsky
(1,065 posts)... that was brutal.
uponit7771
(90,329 posts)... details on certain aspects of their plans and they would either change their plans or tell folk to go to hell then I knew something was untoward.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)and in the same breath said he didn't know the rules to the caucus. He is such a shady chump.
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)"shady chump"
It is such a nice way of saying what I would have.
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)He didn't bother to tell his followers they had to be registered democrats to vote in NY. Seems like an important concept to just skip past.
Sancho
(9,067 posts)Nothing he can do about it because he is the weaker candidate.
pressbox69
(2,252 posts)but how many families allow great grandpa to handle the remote control?
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... the checking account.
pressbox69
(2,252 posts)A lot more traffic here than there is in the other place.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)thesquanderer
(11,982 posts)re: "Bernie can't figure out how to work the nominating process" -- did I miss something? Does this refer to something in particular? I'm not sure what this is about...
Ultimately, though, if he doesn't know how to work the process, he won't be nominated, so it's not an issue. If by some chance he gets nominated (especially with having started out as an underdog by a tremendous margin), then by definition, he knew enough about how to work the process!