If you want your candidate to win

[timmymoff]

more than you want her to release her transcripts, that speaks quite a bit of both parties. If not knowing information is better for you, or the candidate, it must be good to withhold them. As stated many times before with approval and favorability ratings so low, especially regarding being trustworthy, How can you continue to stonewall and expect the people you want to court to believe you.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

1. Another "you better tell us what we want to know OR ELSE!"

I cant decide if this is GOP plants or people who are just selfish and politically unaware.

[timmymoff]

2. I'm definately no gop plant.

I definitely consider this a huge conflict of interest. I have no problem stating I won't vote for her if she is nominated. The Hillary supporters with all her enthusiasm better get out there cuz this cat won't be helping, financially, with activism, nor endorsement among friends. Thirty years of doing that for a center right democratic party has brought me to this. My disdain is earned.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

3. You might as well vote for Drumpf then

[timmymoff]

5. I have the same interest in voting for Trump as I do for Hillary

More than likely I will leave president blank but vote for the other liberal candidates. Dems mostly, but possibly may withhold my vote if the candidate is following Hillary's platform. Blue dog dems do not get my help this election cycle or any more. thank goodness Sanders is moving us back left.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

6. GOP is counting on that, they are grateful to you.

They cant win any other way.

[timmymoff]

10. Selling fear like the GOP does isn't becoming.

Guess Hillary better get all her highly energized voters out there doing the things I would normally do if I supported a candidate.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

21. This is how you lose credibility, accusing a liberal like myself of supporting the non

fascist as selling fear.

Something has gone wrong, I dont know what happened to you folks but if you are sincerely not GOP plants, something has gone very wrong somewhere along the line.

One last time

it is called the BIG PICTURE

[TM99]

22. Yes, something has gone wrong.

Open your damned eyes, look at the Clinton campaign, the DWS led DNC, and the neoliberal take-over the Democratic Party in the late 1980's, and you might just find your answer!

[Jackie Wilson Said]

25. Again, opened a long time ago, probably more liberal and socialist than you will ever be

but, I am also experienced so I look at the BIG PICTURE.

I work for and vote for the best candidate, Bernie, then I do what Bernie will do....and we both know what that is, dont we.

[TM99]

34. I doubt that son.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

38. If this wasnt so sad it might be funny.

[TM99]

44. So share with me how

much more 'liberal' and 'socialist' you are?

If you throw out some, look me I am greater than you, then back it the fuck up or expect a bit of ridicule.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

48. It is all about degrees and life experiences. I think if I went into detail it wouldnt

matter, suffice it to say I believe capitalism for the most part is a failed system and we need far far more socialism.

[TM99]

49. So let's here it.

What degrees? How old are you? What are you life experiences? Don't just throw something out there if you are not going to back it up.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

50. I dont want to talk about how old I am or life experiences because what matters is

how I want things to change.

If I said I was an older wealthy person who wants taxes to be much higher because I want more socialism, would you believe me?

If I said I was a younger person with no money who wants the same thing, the result would be the same thing, right!

I dont think most of you are prepared to deal with the level of socialism we actually need to break free of the corrupt capitalism.

You are showing a willingness to be open to what someone else is saying, that is good.

[TM99]

51. Still deflecting I see.

I have no reason to distrust who you say you are. If you share genuine and real experiences, even on the internet, most of us will know whether you are full of shit or not.

As a teenage exchange student to West Germany, I experience 'socialism' decades before it became popular to even bring up the term in political discourse. So again back up your claims and stop making assumptions.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

52. What claim? I support paying more in taxes and having much more socialism, how do I prove

that?

[TM99]

55. You claimed you were more of a liberal

and a socialist than I am.

So prove it. Share with us and me your professional experiences, your background, your education, your generation, etc?

I will then counter with mine, and we will see. Simple

[timmymoff]

24. The big picture is

for thirty plus years we rewarded center-right dems with election victories( not that many mind you since DWS took over). And where has it got us? How many times do we need kicked in the balls to only ask, " please just kick me in the teeth this time!" You can continue this self flagellation if you wish. Why reward what we oppose?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

26. It got us ACA so we no longer have pre existing condition exclusions. And much more.

Did it get us everything we want, deserve and need?

Hell no, so the answer is to give up and let the fucking fascists take over?

Not if there is a breath left in my body.

BTW, this is where a real liberal will stop and say "Hey, you know what, you are right, and as much as I cant stand Hillary, if I have to vote for her I will"

That is what a real liberal who is an adult says at this point.

[timmymoff]

28. Now you are going to define me yet again

A real liberal doesn't support regime change, a vote for Hillary means you do. A real liberal doesn't support fracking, a vote for Hillary says you do. A real liberal doesn't support big money donors and citizens united, a vote for Hillary says you do ( as seen especially this election cycle when there is a contrast). A real liberal does not support chained cpi, Hillary does. A real liberal does not support give up fights for minimum wage before they happen, Hillary does. A real liberal does not give up fights on healthcare, Hillary does. A real liberal does not support the free trade deals Hillary has, and has been exposed to doing. Nor coups. So tell me, do you really wish to define me? or are you more afraid to define what that vote means, so a blind eye is turned. Pease are better than strained peas lol

[Jackie Wilson Said]

30. You are the one who will walk away from the election and allow the GOP to take over, not me.

[timmymoff]

32. Hopefully those hillary supporters can take up my slack huh

they seem so energized.

[DanTex]

4. If you're going to sit out and let Trump win, you have no business lecturing anyone.

[timmymoff]

7. I have every right

it's you who is letting Trump win. Going with a center- right dem. given choice of a center tight dem or a republican independents will take the republican, they know where they stand, unlike with Weathervane.

[DanTex]

9. I'm voting D in November either way.

If you're not, then thankfully you won't be posting on DU much longer. This forum is for Democrats who care about the future of the nation.

[timmymoff]

12. Do as you wish

just as I will.

[840high]

56. Bully for you. How

other people vote is not your business.

[realmirage]

8. Dantex that is the truth. This guy is a republican.

Only a republican plant or a political neophyte would say Hillary and trump are similar

[timmymoff]

11. I didn't say they were similar.

I said I am not interested in voting for either.

[realmirage]

15. You are saying they are equally bad

That's ridiculous to anyone who researches the facts. You don't sound educated on the subject enough to be ranting like this

[timmymoff]

16. No I stated I have no interest in voting for them.

You read that as being equally bad.

[realmirage]

20. Lol

You really aren't getting it. I'm done here

[timmymoff]

33. No i'm not really letting you change my words

it frustrates you.

[Avalon Sparks]

14. I have to agree

It is her supporters that is letting Trump Win.

[realmirage]

18. Avalon if you are not going to vote Dem for any reason

You simply haven't educated yourself enough on the issues

[Avalon Sparks]

29. Funny, I generally think the same of Hillary supporters...

I see more in common between Clinton and Trump, than not.

Trumps won't get the nom anyway, that I can guarantee.

[Dem2]

13. So is anybody ever going to post anything again that isn't just a bunch of logical fallacies

All twisted into a ball of meaningless garbage?

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

17. How is this a logical fallacy... DO you not care what she tells the people who pay her bills?

I think RuPaul said it best.



So who is Hillary going to care about?

[timmymoff]

19. They always do that. Kind of irks me

[realmirage]

23. Dem2 I think what you're seeing

is the nastiness that finally results when a candidates supporters start to realize their guy probably isn't going to win. So right now they're like the kid who is losing at monopoly and throws the board across the room rather than be grown up and civil and supportive of the winner

[Dem2]

27. Either candidate is pretty good to me

I find it a little depressing that a Democrat would want to win with their candidates so much that they would attack Democrats and the other candidate so viciously and without thought to the consequences.

[timmymoff]

31. has anyone on here said anything the gop won't say?

Hell trump, who you guys supposedly fear, can run to the left of Hillary on trade. Goodness.

[realmirage]

36. Classic talking point that

disregards the mountains of facts that show how much better of a president Hillary would be than any republican, and more liberal. Ask your pal hannity

[timmymoff]

37. How does me posting this

harm Hillary? Is it not her record? Do you think they won't post these things? Seriously, is this your first election?

[Dem2]

42. So now we act like lowlife Republican scum bags?

I don't think that's the standard that I set for myself or that I would want my children to have to witness.

[timmymoff]

43. Who is being a low life republican scumbag?

The center-right candidate?

[Dem2]

47. I can't argue with somebody who can't not make everything into a logical fallacy

[timmymoff]

53. Ok then don't.

you aren't that convincing anyway.

[Dem2]

54. Adding an ad hominem in for good measure eh?

Nice.

[timmymoff]

57. You're welcome

I won't be able to respond for a bit, I have to go to the local democratic party meeting. They are electing officials tonight, they are also placing people into committeemen positions. Bernie supporters will have doubled the number of precinct committee positions after tonight. We will also be helping the on various other committees, all in the plan to move things to the left. You have a good night. The revolution is happening on the local level, just isn't reported, third way will be lost way very soon.

[realmirage]

35. It is scary

The Bernie movement is getting so vicious and unable to disagree rationally that it's starting to resemble a fascist movement. If you don't agree with me you're the enemy.... Saying they'll try to win at the convention even if they have fewer pledged delegates and losing the popular vote... What is their movement morphing in to?

[timmymoff]

40. Now an attempt to marginalize.

Nice work kid! Don't you get it, it's not Hillary so much as her owners. It's not that dems are bad, it's that there is a better platform otherwise it wouldn't have been adopted so much by the front runner.

[Dem2]

45. I wouldn't go that far

I see some of that here, but I don't believe that the people who post here are representative of the typical Bernie Sanders supporter.

[TM99]

46. A newb calling those

who don't worship Clinton fascist?

Wow, is this the new meme?!

[Avalon Sparks]

41. Why call it nastiness, why make it personal.

I see no difference between Hillary and any conservative on positions on war, economy, free trade, campaign finance reform and fracking.

No difference. She offers me nothing. I'm not stupid enough to vote on wedge issues, as they reek of manipulation.

In fact considering all the bribe money, oops I mean speaking fees, her and her political partner have built their fortune on, she's gonna owe a lot more favors if she gets in office. Likely more than the Repugs.

But go ahead and call me nasty and uninformed if I don't vote for Hillary.

[NCTraveler]

39. At this point there is no such thing as wanting a candidate to win.

Outside of those hoping for a miracle indictment or such.

[ecstatic]

58. I don't care about the speeches.

I don't hate her for making a lot of money through speaking fees. Good for her.

I think I agree with HRC on 90 to 95% of the issues. I think she has put a lot of thought into the issues that are most important to me. She comes to the table with extraordinary intelligence, education, grit, and something that i think is much needed--a woman's perspective.

Bernie has not put much (if any) thought into the issues that I care about--he hasn't even thought through his own platform. That's not ok with me, but I get that you don't care if someone is an empty suit as long as they say the right keywords. Like revolution! I don't vote based on emotions so I need much more than that.

[ScreamingMeemie]

59. Her speeches have nothing to do with why I don't particularly care for her and chose

Bernie instead. I don't care for her because she doesn't care for me. I don't make enough money to live in a world with a Hillary or a Republican presidency. Why did I choose Bernie? Not for free stuff, but to stop our country from sliding further to the right and back into the Reagan policies that cost so many jobs and so much money. I won't support anyone, especially a woman, who is so squishy on abortion rights.

[pdsimdars]

60. It's all right here in this thread

Someone brought up ISSUES and the only response was diversion . . about voting. The time to worry about the GE is AFTER the primaries.

The REASON for primaries is to VET the candidates. And VETTING means finding out about them. timmy brought up ISSUES to vet your candidate of choice and

YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS TO THINGS THAT MATTER. NONE!

In plain language, you have no reason of substance to vote for her.

[MisterP]

61. they're okay with not knowing her policies because they don't care about

what she'll push--they've repeatedly said so: they'll support literally anything because she does, because she's her