The nature of a dog whistle

[nadinbrzezinski]

I am sure you all remember this beauty from 2008



Well this was the 2008 explanation for that one

Barack Obama's campaign team today accused Hillary Clinton's beleaguered staff of mounting a desperate dirty tricks operation by circulating a picture of him in African dress, feeding into false claims on US websites that he is a Muslim.

Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, described it as "the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election". Obama has had to spend much of the campaign stressing he is a Christian not a Muslim and did not study at a madrassa.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/25/barackobama.hillaryclinton

While the campaign denied it, well it was pretty clear the Clinton Campaign had it's dirty paws in this wonderful smear. RUN, OBAMA IS BLACK AND A MUSLIM... that was the intended dog whistle, and it worked. RW media picked it up... in fact, worked so well that RW media, like Breitbart and company ran with that. and Rush was a pleasure to listen to as to how Obama had to be a muslim. Hell Rush kept it going for years as part of his act.




These days we have some users here using this lovely avatar. For the record, this is not a Clinton dirty trick... it is the kind of crap that is being tolerrated though, and as a good dog whistle, you are not supposed to hear thiem if it is not aimed at you, it took me a little white to figure this out.

So here it is


It is such a lovely image.

So let's start decoding this one, m'kay.

It is part of the Marian devotion, and includes the heart of Mary. This is what this devotion is all about

The love which Mary bears us is similar to that manifested towards us by her Divine Son when, while on earth, he sought sinners rather than the just; our condition as sinners, far from opposing an obstacle, is rather a claim upon her. In this point, as in all others, Mary walks faithfully in the footsteps of her Son and model, and if she loves the just with a love of complacency because of their virtues, the love of compassion and mercy which she feels for sinners is still greater, not because they are worthy of it, but because of their greater necessities. Finally the material heart of Mary, by means of which we should raise our thoughts to the spiritual, is ordinarily represented not only with New flames escaping from it, which figure her love, and crowned with flowers, emblems of her virtues, but also pierced with a sword, to call our attention to her sorrows.

http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/Immaculate%20Heart%20of%20Mary%20popup.html

Now I am not stretching this when I say that this defacing of a sacred image is anti Catholic, It does not matter whether you do it with Photoshop, or a spray can. In case you wonder, this is part of the Federal HATE CRIME statues as well, for physical crimes. I think we all can agree, that for the moment a photoshop hack job does not rise, YET, to the category of an actual crime.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/federal-statutes

This is also part of a long tradition in the United States. It is not a pleasant tradition. It goes back to the earliest days of the Colonies. I could give you oodles of books to go read, but the Guardian had a nice little piece before Pope Francis visited recently.

The land of immigrants enshrined freedom of religion in the constitution yet spent much of its history despising, harassing and marginalising Catholics.

From the first Puritan settlers to televangelists, leading political, business and religious figures lambasted followers of Rome as theological abominations and traitorous fifth columnists.

“When you look back at the true, hidden history of the United States this strand of anti-Catholicism is very powerful,” said Kenneth Davis, a prominent historian and commentator.

“We want to show this patriotic view that we were this melting pot of religious freedom. Nonsense. People wanted their own religious freedom, not freedom for others. There was a very, very deep hatred of Catholics.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/12/america-history-of-hating-catholics


Some here might remember the religious wars that wracked Europe, but this hate of the Catholic and all things catholic is not gone. The purposeful defacing of an image to "make fun of Bernie Sanders supporters," as some of you claim is just cover. This is as vile as it gets. And I admit it, since it was on a RELIGIOUS image my radar for dog whistles was thrown off for a few.

Now you are also engaging in some old fashioned antisemitism. The choice of image points to a heart. Hearts usually pump blood, and blood libel has a very long history. That history goes back to the middle ages and led directly to the death of people.

Now I have tried telling some of the folks (two to be exact) that this is a troublesome image, Just as troublesome as the one of Obama in a Turban that at least I hope you would not defend today, but I am not sure anymore. When this is explained to you, and you keep laughing it off, you either are tone deaf, possible, or like a poster that blew her cover somewhere else, this is what you are. There is no question in my mind that just like anti AA sentiments went though the roof in 2008, and people got a license to engage in them, so is the candidacy of a Jewish man a license for some to engage in dog whistle politics of the worst kind.

You want to disagree with people on policy have at it. That is what primaries are about. Once you cross into using imagery like this, you have crossed into at the very least dirty tricks territory. And now you cannot claim you were just kidding and it was a way to make a joke at bernie supporters and the beatification of a jew (more dog whistles by the way) As far as I am concerned, this is quite anti-Semitic, and anti-Catholic and it is far from funny.

[riderinthestorm]

1. I've been posting from my phone exclusively for weeks now and don't see any avatars

This is shameful.



Thank you for the information.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Oh you welcome

I got alerted this morning and had that closed for calling one of the two users the exact words that should be used.

[morningfog]

31. A lot of DUers are just assholes. What are you gonna do!

[beam me up scottie]

3. Kicked and recommended, the bigots are outing themselves all over the place.

Thank you, nadin, I hope everyone reads this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. You welcome

after I got a hide for trying to explain this ... I went i need to fully explain it and bring it into context.

[rhett o rick]

183. They can rationalize their bigotry as being for goodness. The ends justify the means. nm

[PufPuf23]

4. Thank you for an informative and timely essay. kr

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. You welcome

[rock]

7. I'm not sure of your point

You say people of the Catholic faith will take offense and you want people to stop displaying that icon? Have I got it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Whether they display that icon or not is *their business*

it is what it says about them.

And defacing a religious image is what it is.

That said, this should not be tolerated on a so called progressive site.

[Punkingal]

9. This is shameful.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I expect them to double down

and I hope to be wrong on that

[Punkingal]

16. I'm not a Catholic, but my beloved late mother-in-law was.

I take great exception to this kind of thing. Some things are just too outrageous.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. It took me a while

since I am far better at getting the whistles that do not involve religious imagery... it is practice, or lack of it. They were expecting to fly under the radar because most people are not very good at this But just the defacing of the image, without the code should be enough for people to understand this is wrong.

[passiveporcupine]

195. Maybe it's better to know what lies underneath the persona.

If this gets more extreme, it points out the extremists.

I've been learning a lot about some old-time members here lately.

[LexVegas]

11. "Low information voters" "whore". nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Defacing of sacred images, and antisemitism

try again

[LexVegas]

13. "Confederate States" "Stockholm Syndrome". nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Look at the image you are defending

study it carefully...

and thank you for proving my point That some of you guys would double down. THANKS.

[LexVegas]

15. Look at the racism and sexism you are defending. Study it carefully. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

17. Look at your transparency page:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=313074&sub=trans

[840high]

28. Oh my goodness.

[hollysmom]

107. wow impressive, I haven't been looking at transparency pages myself, but I will have to do it in tfu

those are a bunch of ugly posts.
Of course I an tempting fate, I have only been called to the jury once today.

[artislife]

214. Yup. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Once again, thanks for provinig my point

and kicking this.

Truly, thank you.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. That person is a bully and one of Skinner's All Stars.

He's barfing that Stockholm thread by one banned individual that was condemned by me and by others supporting you in this thread. He's trying to paint all of us with that individual's actions. So it is fair to point out that his own actions are mean and nasty and often hidden by the community.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. I know, I got hidden earlier iin the day

for pointing to one of the posters using it, that it was what it was.

[beam me up scottie]

34. Thank you, well said.

[villager]

103. And yet of course they are utterly, tellingly silent with the overt anti-Semites in their midst.

Which tells you all you need to know about them.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

206. "Skinner's All Stars" -- I like the sound of that. Fitting.

[amborin]

19. "slutty and nutty" said of Professor Anita Hill by David Brock

[artislife]

212. So you are okay with bigotry?

Because the two phrases you throw out are not on par.

But this is no great surprise from you.

[Scootaloo]

215. You do a poor job of distracting

[amborin]

20. it's a particularly offensive image; thank you for this explanation; why is it permitted on this ost

ostensibly progressive website?

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. It should not

and it should be removed, But offensiveness is quite situational apparently

[IdaBriggs]

21. Kick. Recommend.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Thanks

[daleanime]

26. K&R.....

and bookmarked.

[840high]

29. ....

[daleanime]

30. ......

[TM99]

32. Well researched and shared. Thank you.

You may notice the worst offenders are the same ones who used the flyswatter splat against the L00mix bug. Once a bigoted bully, always a bigoted bully.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Exactly

[Autumn]

35. Very well done nadin. Thank you

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Thanks and funny thing

I just came across two of the users in question.

[Avalux]

37. This is an excellent post illustrating the banal underbelly of Hilary Inc.

Thank you for a ray of light amidst the madness.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. And now we have people doubling down on this

[Avalux]

54. Let them. You're solid and a treasure to DU. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. I am, this reflects on them

[The Old Lie]

69. Let me ask you a similar question....

Would you agree the Celtic cross is also an anti-Semitic imagery (it is a Neo-Nazi symbol)

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. I have pointed that to folks here

and have been laughed at. It is part of the avatar collection that is available and it is the much older version that is not your lovely white supremacist version, so it is much harder to prove as to intent.

[one_voice]

88. Dear Jesus..

My poor Irish Catholic granny is probably rolling over in her grave; to find out she's anti Semitic..a white supremacist even. She had the Celtic Cross in her house. Was quite fond of it.

She had one next to a statue of Mother Mary.

I think you may want to reconsider this broad statement. It's a symbol of many people's heritage.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. Yes it is... quite honestly a good and nice cross.

but it started to make it's appearance recently on this site.

Here is why this is possible... most folks do not hear the whistle, but those for whom it is intended receive it loud and clear. Good examples that are dated but so studied that they are extremely good teaching examples are things like the cadillac welfare queen, and poor using food stamps to buy steak.

Good book on the subject... and yes common symbols tend to be turned on their ear.

http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Whistle-Politics-Appeals-Reinvented/dp/019022925X

[mcar]

125. I've been using the Celtic Cross as my avatar for a long time

Nothing recent about it.

How do you feel about regular crosses? Should they be banished too? After all, the KKK uses them as a symbol.

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. If it does not apply to you

But it does apply to a few others

[George II]

187. Oh geeze, this stuff again. I suppose I should repost all of those photographs....

....of Catholic Churches that use the Celtic Cross in their stained glass windows, the monument signs outside the church, even atop their steeples!

Anti-Semites, all of the priests that worship and preach inside those churches and their congregations!

Here's the anti-Semitic church that I go to every week:



The steeple, window above the front door, and windows above both side doors of the church are emblazoned with that symbol of anti-Semetism.

[mcar]

191. A beautiful church

[George II]

209. Thank you, it really is. I posted that shortly before we left for the vigil mass yesterday...

...and since it was on my mind, I thought to take notice of the architecture inside the church.

There are seven stained glass windows on the left and right sides, and next to each there are TWO Celtic Crosses - that's 28 total inside the Catholic Church along with five or six outside.

Plus, since it's still Easter season, the Priest and Deacon were still wearing their white robes!!!!

[Behind the Aegis]

95. It is an Irish and Celtic symbol.

It is also a common pagan symbol. However, it is also used by neo-Nazis and when this was pointed out a few weeks back, some people decided it would be a "good time" to change their avatars. To me, that was a move to mock anti-Semitism, not express pride in Irish/Celtic heritage or paganism.

Before a few weeks ago, I never batted an eye when I saw that avatar, because the person baring it was either pagan or Celtic oriented, usually the former. Then I started seeing them all over the place and was really confused as to why. I was then told what had happened and given that three of the first people I saw using it have had incidents of anti-Semitism in their past, I knew it wasn't about "pride" of any kind, but about mocking Jews and anti-Semitism.

It is a definitely a symbol, at least in travels, associated with pagans, but I have seen it used by many neo-Nazis. It is a situation where context will determine whether it is being used for good or ill.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. Exactly

[treestar]

130. No it is about supporting mcar who was

being accused for using that cross.

The people who keep trying to paint someone as white supremacist for a Celtic Cross is what should be mocked.

[mcar]

131. Actually, some changed to that avatar to support me

It was implied that my using the avatar showed my neoNazi tendencies. In fact, that poster got several hides for the suggestion and took his/her complaint to ATA.

Some DUers changed as a show of support. I am humbled and delighted by them.

[tammywammy]

137. Exactly

You were attacked with unfounded accusations of being a Neo Nazi. That's the first time I ever saw the Celtic Cross and Nazism linked to DUers on this board.

I am also part Irish and never associated the traditional Celtic cross, of which I have seen many, with the version used by Neo Nazis.

The Celtic Cross, as typically depicted, is a traditional Christian symbol used for religious purposes as well as to symbolize concepts like Irish pride. As such, it is a very common symbol and primarily used by non-extremists. Most renditions of the traditional Celtic Cross feature an elongated vertical axis (often accompanied by Celtic knotwork) that resembles that of other Christian crosses. Although white supremacists will occasionally use this version of the Celtic Cross, the overwhelming use of this version of the Celtic Cross is non-extremist and, in the absence of other hate symbols, does not denote white supremacy or racism.

http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/hate-on-display/c/celtic-cross.html

[Behind the Aegis]

168. If it is about you, then I can see this as a move of support.

You have sported that avatar for a long time! When I said there were people who had it before, you were actually the person I was thinking of, but didn't say because I didn't want to point to you. So, if this is the case, then I believe it was done to support you. However, there are some people who should NEVER use it here, even in support, unless they have a caveat stating it is about supporting you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

172. Correct

And the caveat should be enough.

Just as you, I have seen MCAR sporting it for years He is never the person I mean when I see that one

[mcar]

175. I'm a girl

But no caveat is necessary for anyone wanting to offer me support from a nasty attacker.

[nadinbrzezinski]

176. My apologies

[bettyellen]

180. and a fine Lass!

[mcar]

190. ...

[mcar]

174. Thank you, BtA

[Behind the Aegis]

178. You are welcome.

I know you have had that avatar for a long time. I will also say I have never seen you post or excuse anything anti-Semitic! (I am glad I saw your other post. I was sure you were female! But, people had me second guessing! Happens to me all the time; most people still think I am female; I am not.)

[mcar]

184. No worries

Decoding a posters gender can be difficult and it's really not a big deal.

[murielm99]

189. I will continue to use this avatar to support you.

People who throw around accusations of anti-Semitism are showing who they are, not who you, or we are.

[mcar]

192. Thank you Muriel!

[artislife]

213. The bigots aren't afraid

and they think Trump supporters are special...well hardly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

218. I know, bigotry is not exclusive to Republicans

...

[Jefferson23]

38. I had no idea anyone here was using this on DU and they are wrong to do so.

It saddens me to see this and it appears to be used as retribution for perceived
slights against anyone who has been critical of Obama.

Thank you for the OP..this is where we're at now, how awful...dog whistles indeed.

[Buzz Clik]

39. My ears were burning. Berning?

[Jefferson23]

60. Oh look, its Mr Clik. Proud of yourself, eh?

[BeanMusical]

100. How typically repulsive of you.

[hollysmom]

108. wow looking at teh transparency page really works, really tells you all you need to know

about a poster. Where have I been all these years?

[Buzz Clik]

122. oops

oops. Posted too soon. Stay tuned.

[Buzz Clik]

123. Yes, lets look at my Transparency page! It will give us amazing insight into Sanders supporters.

In reverse chronological order:

1. "Sanders has adopted the sleazy style of his supporters." Truth in politics? Don't make me laugh. Sanders is giving HRC lying lessons. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1345341

   That was true then, it's true now. And the trigger for the hide? The word "sleazy." (Kinda funny considering how many Sanders supporters defended calling HRC a "whore.&quot
   
   

2. I find the OP to be stereotypical DU ca-ca. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1353292

   Oh, dear. Did I say "ca-ca"?
   
   

3. "Yeah baby! Hillary in shackles by 4 pm. Frogmarching to the county pen." (followed by a picture of HRC in an orange jumpsuit http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1382120

   This one was actually hidden by HRC supporters who didn't get the sarcasm.
   
   

4. How could I possibly censor you? (followed by a jpg saying simply in purple letters on a black background: The Drama Queen) http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1488414

   This was in response to a poster who, in his two previous posts, has been ridiculously abusive and drenching his posts with obscenities. But I got the hide...
   
   

5. A tabloid cover? Really? You like this one of theirs? (followed by a cover from the NY Daily News of Khadafy's body) http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1651076

   The OP was a NYDN cover blasting HRC, and the OP celebrating the insights of the tabloid. I countered that they actually endorsed Hillary's decision to kill Khadafy. I guess that bit of truth was deemed uncomfortable.
   
   

6. Who would have predicted that Bernie would turn into such a whiny little girl. o, he does not want the supers to count except when calculating the denominator for a majority. He ego has left earth's gravitational pull. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1406605

   According to the alert and responding jurors, suggesting Sanders was behaving like a little girl was "misogynist." LOL! Again, this is the crowd who spent two days defending their right to call HRC a whore.
   
   

7. I proved my case. You and your ilk are now just fabricating crap that could never be proven. You get the last word. Make it a really big, juicy lie for all your fans. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1681840

   No comments on this one as to why it was hidden. I guess it was calling the author of the OP a liar; odd considering BS fans have called me a liar about 5 times today, and it's not 9 AM.

Did you enjoy that look in the mirror? Did you like what you saw?

I am not embarrassed about my Transparency page. It's living evidence of why I find so many in the Sanders's fan base at DU to be beneath contempt.

[BeanMusical]

126. I truly pity you.

[Buzz Clik]

127. And I truly believe that...

[BeanMusical]

139. Well you are pitiful so why wouldn't I pity you?

That's really sad.

[Buzz Clik]

140. Aw, you're so sweet! Thank you.

[BeanMusical]

141. Your welcome.

[Buzz Clik]

142. ..

[hollysmom]

208. the insight it gives me is

1) you are a Hillary supporter, not a biggie, but information
2) you don't mind crossing the line set up here at DU because so many posts are hidden.
3) you called someone an "Ilk" - you don't mind dismissing an entire group of people
4) you call sander's supporters sleazy, heh, I don't agree with everyone in every group, (including the Pets group) but I don't insult an entire group of people, just individuals, hee. I have friends that support all kinds of candidates and seem to get along with them. One of my friends bragged told me she was a conservative now (as if that was a good thing), so I asked her the typical conservative type questions about starving babies, etc. except I was careful how I couched the terms and by the end of the day, she realized she was not a conservative, she cares too much about children and about social security and climate change .......that conservatives do not conserve anything. She is a member of an anti-abortion group and has been for years (don't get me started) and they poison her mind, she needs friends to counterbalance their propaganda and that is me, at least for her. Her son is gay and she dearly loves him and wants to be happy, why would she support these groups??????? You just don't appear to believe "the more flies with honey" thing works. (this seems to be a very popular thing right now and not my style.

And that is what it tells me about you, doesn't tell me what you look like or how old you are or your favorite food so I don't "know" you, but tells me what to expect as a reply.

Here is the thing we can talk like adults or attack each other, which do you think works better for the democratic party And that old favorite - "they started it first" does not work for me.

[BeanMusical]

210. +1

[FSogol]

40. Other than the guys who join DU to shout Trump 2016 before being banned, this is the most illiberal

post I have ever seen on DU.

The inanity and rhetorical gymnastics required to reach your conclusions are both laughable and wrong. As a citizen of this free country, I am free to mock the sacred and profane. Manipulating a image to goof on some supporter's deification of their purest-of-the-pure candidate is not an anti-Semitic or anti-Catholic attack. It is funny. Mocking the puffed-up self-importance of those who try and tell us what to or scold us is covered by the 1st amendment. It is an authoritarian act to try and shame those who poke fun at things. To try and pretend it is a political calculated religious attack is beyond lame.

Here is another image that was created to shock religious prudes and scolding busybodies:

Artist Andres Serranos would have no doubt laughed along with me at your argument.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Good for comparing that to this

I am happy for you

And it is not illiberal to point to bigotry

[FSogol]

44. As usual this makes zero sense: "Good for comparing that to this"

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. You defend bigotry

go ahead, you are doing a good job.

[FSogol]

47. Laughable.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Keep lauging it is histerical

your defense of this speaks about YOU.

[BeanMusical]

102. +1 Very well said.

[questionseverything]

75. it is an attack on Christianity and yes you have the freedom of speech to do that but

it is not social acceptable to do,in most civilized places

<shrugs>

[TM99]

84. You waltz in with a photo from an artist

and attempt to compare that to the dog whistling bigotry on display here on DU, and you wonder why we don't take you seriously?

Get a clue.

[bettyellen]

181. Yes, and the Monty Python crew!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. I condemn anti-papism and anti-semitism and all forms of bigotry...

I condemn anti-papism and anti-semitism and all forms of bigotry but blasphemy is not a hate crime.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Blasphemy, who said a thing about blasphemy

I was clear in the term I used. DEFACING.

Try again.

But hey, I expect folks to double down, I mean it.

[FSogol]

45. Defacing? Did someone modify the original?

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Yes, actually

the original JPEG or whatever the file was. And it is offensive, you will continue to defend it Actually I am not surprised you are. Go ahead and use it, be really open about it. Please do.

[FSogol]

50. The original jpeg? Are you for real? Go ahead and have the last word. I'm tried of your act.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. I would never use an avatar like that.

But it is not a hate crime. If it was Andres Serrano would be in prison.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. No, online it is not a hate crime

I thought I was clear on that. Defacing an image in such a way could be considered one under the proper circumstances. Why Serrano never fit that, amirite.

Try to comprehend what is going on here. Not that different from a turban on then Senator Barack Obama. This is why dog whistles work. You are not supposed to hear them. For the record, I EXPECTED THIS CRAP and I do not expect this to be rock bottom either.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. Two points

- Trafficking in bigotry is always wrong.

-If some clown photoshops Bernie in papal dress he is a clown but has not committed a hate crime. It would be a hate crime if he broke into a church and defaced a photo of the Pope though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Dog whistle

this is what this is.. you comprehend now. And a pretty ugly one.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. I criticize dog whistle politics without reservation.

I am just distinguishing between a clown and a criminal:

A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

The avatar in question doesn't fall into that category.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. But it does fall into dog whistle

as to the hate crime, I linked to the statues and was clear that for the moment, that might change, cyber stalking is becoming more of a thing... it is not a crime.

And cyberstalking is just one example of online laws that are changing and fast

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. I have been followed on this board...

Cyberstalking would be a higher burden though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. No, I mean the actual thing, I posted the other day a story

on a landmark case,

Will give you the link to RSD... why? It is important for people to understand... that landmark case would not have been a case ten years ago.

https://reportingsandiego.com/2016/04/12/landmark-cyberstalking-case-results-in-life-sentences-for-three-family-members/

I get news releases from the DOJ regularly... and that one caught my eye.

It is a horrific story... but because of school bullying et al, it is fast evolving. What a person did oh in 1998 would today be a felony, it wasn't back them. They sent a lovely wonderful virus in an attachment. You can imagine the rest now.

Today that is a class I felony.

This is why I would not dismiss this becoming a felony in 10 to 20 years. Circumstances I can see, it leads to violence. This is a requirement for hate speech.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. I unequivocally condemn doxing regardless of the target.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. We both do

but I am making a different point, Cyber law is right now a fast moving target.

[delrem]

97. That isn't Andres Serrano.

Serrrano's photograph "piss christ" is actually quite beautiful IMO and wiki says:
"Serrano has not ascribed overtly political content to Piss Christ and related artworks, on the contrary stressing their ambiguity. He has also said that while this work is not intended to denounce religion, it alludes to a perceived commercializing or cheapening of Christian icons in contemporary culture."

aside: I'm RC and grew up with crosses all over the place and the whole shitload of "blessed" paraphernalia. I remember being overwhelmed by the crass commercialization of Notre-Dame Basilica in Montreal and figure that if this artist, Serrano, could make something so strikingly beautiful as that image out of THAT material, then godspeed to him.

In contrast, the avatar in question is overtly political. It is a nasty and crass attack. Some posters to DU are beside themselves with fury over Sanders speaking at a Vatican conference. "St. Bernie" is a HRC supporter meme on DU. And that avatar pops up. That's just gutter politics on steroids - esp. after the new "amnesty for assholes" special rules for this primary.

But no, DUers who use it shouldn't be charged under "hate crime" laws.
Neither did the OP suggest that.
Duh.

eta: this is the pic in action
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511744610#post1

[BeanMusical]

104. That poster is obviously craving for attention.

How pathetic and sad.

[delrem]

110. Yah well, aren't we all?

I enjoy my discussions with DSB, and almost by symbiosis 1SBM, although with respect to the merits of Hillary Rodham Clinton I'm rather at odds with them.

[Bluenorthwest]

193. Serrano is massively misunderstood and much of his work focuses on sacred imagery

The Church
http://www.artnet.com/usernet/awc/awc_thumbnail.asp?aid=424202827&gid=424202827&cid=121350&works_of_art=1

Holy Works
http://www.artnet.com/usernet/awc/awc_thumbnail.asp?AID=424202827&GID=424202827&CID=264331&page=2&recs=6&MaxPages=3&works_of_art=1

Also
America
http://www.artnet.com/usernet/awc/awc_thumbnail.asp?aid=424202827&gid=424202827&cid=117947&works_of_art=1

[passiveporcupine]

196. I was disgusted with this decision

Because it opened the floodgates for people to come back and escalate what was already gutter politics.

after the new "amnesty for assholes" special rules for this primary.

It would be interesting if someone took a count of how many members have long transparency pages now and showed which camp they came from.

I am pretty sure I already know the answer to that.

[Scootaloo]

216. Can't wait to see you actually condemn it then.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

55. Hillary + campaign cycle = bigotry n/t

[Scootaloo]

217. That's kinda like saying 1 + 0 = 1, really.

[jwirr]

57. Thank you Nadine and I agree that is what this symbol

meant.

[chknltl]

61. KnR. Image IS highly offensive.

I spend 99% of my time on DU via my (so called) smart phone so i do not see any avatars. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. If a vote is required to see to the removal of this offensive avatar please let me know and I will add my vote.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. The admins should do the right thing

[QC]

83. Don't hold your breath.

One of the oddest things about DU, and I say at as someone who's been here over fifteen years, is that the most disruptive people here are often the most protected. Good members have been kicked for as little as posting "7" while certain bullies, stalkers, and right wing trolls have been allowed to ply their trade for years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. I know, been here as long as you

that does not change it, that they should do the right thing.

[sadoldgirl]

65. I found this avatar extremely disgusting and revolting

without knowing the background.

Now, thanks to your explanation, I see it as the
bigoted statement it is.

Thanks Nadin. While I am not religious I do respect
people, who are. The antisemitic relevance escaped
me totally; unfortunately that too has to be expected.
It never seems to die, although it only shows in a
more hidden way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. That is the beauty of dog whistle politics

my ears are tuned to other kinds most of the time. It took me a while to get it.

[uponit7771]

73. "when you talk about ghettos traditionally, what you talk about is African-American communities. "

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. You are correct, he was adressing the media who does that shit

happy now?

Ghettoes are also much older than African Americans in the United States. Mind you by a few decades.

[uponit7771]

76. No he wasn't yaw act like folk don't have TVs, gas lighting at its best ... lol, these aren't the

... drones you've been looking for

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. Actually you are jew splaining at this point

This my friend is the first ghetto.



And since you are gong to call people for black 'splaining when are you calling the media for things like this?



What do you think this particular image triggers in viewers brains?

?w=460

What about this one?

There is a reason why we refuse to run them, or even take them.

But in the meantime, you are jew splaining and justifying a bigoted image. GOOD GOING!

[azmom]

77. I grew up in a Catholic home, and I agree

With you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. I apologize for not getting this earlier

but I grew up Jewish (albeit in a Catholic country) so in the beginning i even mistook the image for the Christ of the Sacred Heart... just as offensive if that was done as well.

[AgerolanAmerican]

78. Team Hillary is blowing a lot of them

It's incessant, constantly implying Bernie is racist and/or sexist - despite a long history of actions proving otherwise - and it's a real turn-off.

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. It is

[zappaman]

82. What a load of crap.

[BeanMusical]

105. Nice avatar.

[zappaman]

111. Thank you.

It's nice of the admins to provide it, don't you think?

[BeanMusical]

112. You've changed it fairly recently, I believe.

[beam me up scottie]

116. Yes, funny how so many of them did after they found out it's used by certain groups.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

[BeanMusical]

119. Of course it's just a coincidence!

[beam me up scottie]

120. Quite an enlightening one. Some folks have interesting histories when it comes to that.

[BeanMusical]

121. Yep.

[mcar]

136. They did it to support me

after I was attacked for using it, as I have for years. Odd that I'm suddenly being suspected of being a neoNazi because of my pride in my Celtic heritage, isn't it?

I appreciate those who changed their avatar to support me.

[beam me up scottie]

138. No one suspected you, but when posters who have a history of certain behaviour

suddenly decide to change their avatar to a known neo-Nazi symbol what else are we supposed to think?

Behind the Aegis said it better than I can.

[tammywammy]

143. mcar was directly attacked for her avatar

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511608380

And that's not the only time that poster specifically went after her for her traditional Celtic Cross avatar.

The Celtic Cross, as typically depicted, is a traditional Christian symbol used for religious purposes as well as to symbolize concepts like Irish pride. As such, it is a very common symbol and primarily used by non-extremists. Most renditions of the traditional Celtic Cross feature an elongated vertical axis (often accompanied by Celtic knotwork) that resembles that of other Christian crosses. Although white supremacists will occasionally use this version of the Celtic Cross, the overwhelming use of this version of the Celtic Cross is non-extremist and, in the absence of other hate symbols, does not denote white supremacy or racism.

http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/hate-on-display/c/celtic-cross.html

[zappaman]

149. Yup.

The bullshit attacks on this are the height of hypocrisy, but when you see the people doing it, it isn't surprising in the least!

[zappaman]

117. glad to see you're so interested in me!

[BeanMusical]

118. I'm interested in understanding antisemitism because I don't get all the hatred...

but couldn't care less about you personally, Zap.

[zappaman]

148. Lol!

You're "interested".

[BeanMusical]

186. Sid, is that you?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

167. It's understandable. PatBooneMan was already taken.

[BeanMusical]

188. Lol!

[SusanCalvin]

86. As always, thank you for the information.

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. You welcome

[Brickbat]

89. Dirty tricks? Hate crime?

[renate]

90. I must admit, when I first saw the avatar I thought it was actually funny

... even though Bernie's my candidate. I thought it was making fun of the way that Bernie's supporters think of him as saintly, when of course he's just a particularly awesome human being. I'm guilty of making unreasonably high assumptions about him myself, so the picture made me laugh at myself.

But now that you've explained it, and explained how it's deeply and sincerely offensive to many people, I think it would be good manners not to use it any more. Just because people can say something (or choose a particular image as an avatar) doesn't mean they should.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. When I first saw it, well I missed it

I was like what is a catholic image doing on DU?

And that is precisely the explanation those sporting it are using. Making fun of Bernie Sanders supporters, This is exactly how dog whistles work.

This is a good book on the subject

http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Whistle-Politics-Appeals-Reinvented/dp/019022925X

[betsuni]

93. Could just as easily be Larry David in that avatar

and he makes fun of religion all the time:

"Why do Christians take everything so personally with Christ? Not only do you have to worship him, you want everybody to. It's like, I like lobster. Do I go around pushing lobster on people? Do I say, 'You must like lobster'? 'Eat lobster! It's good! It's good!' It's not only where you live, you go to Africa, you travel all over the world: 'Eat lobster! Have some lobster! It's good! It's good!'"

My God, I've done it now. I've blown my cover. My paws are dirty and my dog is whistling.

Steamed lobster is red.
Another red thing is blood.
Blood libel.
ANTISEMITISM!!!1111!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Since I am Jewish

but do proceed Governor... defend this.

[CorkySt.Clair]

109. The OP probably feels Charlie Hebdo should have toned it down

The reality is the Bernie avatar is satire. Sometimes we are offended by satire. Some people seek to stifle satire (and free speech), which is what this manufactured outrage is really all about.

[hobbit709]

113. Oh look. It's another one.

[betsuni]

114. I think I'm most offended by the OP's War on Logic.

Besides the usual crusade against Democrats on a forum for Democrats. And of course that this is 2016, not 1216. And so much more.

[Brickbat]

124. This.

[nadinbrzezinski]

132. Nope. Swing and a miss

We were one of the few American media that ran their images, with permission of course. So you are comparing yourself with Charlie Hebdo, poor persecuted you. Sorry to tell you this, but not even close.

You are free to run that avatar. I am free to point the whistle. It is not that loud, but not impossible to hear

[CorkySt.Clair]

161. Thanks for validating my right to free speech, High Sparrow

[Kittycat]

169. Islamophobic cartoons are free speech. Doesn't mean it's welcome in the Democratic Party.

Nor is Antisemitism, slurs against catholics, or any other religion or culture. We are big tent for a common cause which has primarily been socially driven causes and inclusion even when we have differences, because we have recognized that I am there for you, and you are there for me, and together we are all better for it. Republicans are small tent because they only respect and support the differences that divide us, they care about me, myself and I, and no one else.

But please, you were saying something about unity? Oh no, I'm sorry that wasn't you. Never mind.

[CorkySt.Clair]

173. Yes, I'm quite sure you believe all of that.

[BlindTiresias]

182. Interesting reply

For someone who just got devastated.

[Kittycat]

185. Comments like this are so sad.

Because I can't believe when people don't. Maybe it has to do with how I see the world, and my personal family/direct exposure to multiple races, cultures, and religions?

[passiveporcupine]

199. Great cartoon

[passiveporcupine]

197. You know what you get when you look up at a high sparrow?

Bird droppings in your face.

[CorkySt.Clair]

198. After reading the OP

And many others by the OP I concur. Thanks for the metaphor re: her theories.

[passiveporcupine]

200. Nice redirect (cover)

But I see white on your face. As a matter of fact, I have a story to tell.

High school field trip to the beach. I'm walking along the beach with another girl and a guy. A few seagulls fly over us and I look at the guy and notice bird shit dripping down his face. I tell him about it and he embarassingly rubs it into his face and claims it's suntan lotion.

Pretty much what you just did.

[nadinbrzezinski]

201. I am glad you are hardening my views of you

Suffice it to say self awareness is not your strong point

Have a good one. I truly pitty you. But at least now you cannot claim ignorance. So there is that.

[Behind the Aegis]

96. Good job.

Some very telling post. I can honestly say I am only disappointed in one because I didn't expect him to mock anti-Semitism. But...it is what it is.

[beam me up scottie]

98. I wasn't surprised at all, I've seen posters defend actual hate speech.

It all depends who's using it and who benefits.

[Behind the Aegis]

99. Very true...also depends on the target.

All the spinning makes me dizzy watching it.

[beam me up scottie]

101. It makes me nauseous.

I try to laugh off much of what goes on here but I'm thoroughly disgusted by the dog whistles and the excuses being used to justify them.

That and the sudden increase in the Celtic cross being used as an avatar since it was pointed out that it's also used by neo-Nazis.

[BeanMusical]

106. Kick and R

Thanks Nadin!

[mainer]

115. I kept seeing that image on DU and didn't really get its significance

Thanks for dissecting it down for us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

134. It took a tad to get it

What is not surprising, but sad, the defense of it

[treestar]

133. the word "decoding" now mean

making something up in order to play the victim.

Comparing Bernie as the Virgin Mary to what they did to Obama in the top picture? Astounding.

[workinclasszero]

135. "DEEP SOUTH"..."CONFEDERATE STATES"..."STOCKHOLM SYNDROME"

Now there's a bunch of dog whistle for you OP.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

144. I wish Buzz would change it but I don't see it as anti-semitic or anti-papist.

I do see it as insensitive and hurtful.

BTW, I am not a newcomer to deploring ant-semitism and other forms of bigotry on this board:



https://www.google.com/search?q=www&oq=www&aqs=chrome..69i60l3j69i65l2j69i57.2197j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=DemocratSinceBirth-anti-semitism+site:www.democraticunderground.com

[Buzz Clik]

151. "I wish Buzz would change it"

done

[DemocratSinceBirth]

160. TY.

I didn't think it was anti-papist or anti-semitic , just insensitive. There are a lot of insensitive sig lines but you did the right thing be deleting yours.

BTW, I have heard dog whistles and, imho, it certainly wasn't a dog whistle either.

All you were doing is satirizing the inclination of some to assign messianic qualities to their candidate.

[Buzz Clik]

162. For you, my friend.

And I apologize.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

164. No need to apologize.

There are lots of insensitive sigs, like the photoshopped sig that makes Hillary Clinton look as old and goofy looking as possible. You had the character to delete yours.

[passiveporcupine]

202. I personally think it should be off limits

to post nasty photo shopped images of either candidate.

I also think it is extremely childish.

[nadinbrzezinski]

194. Some supporters of every candidate are doing that

FYI.

"My candidate, insert candidate here, is the only one with the solutions. "

Hate to break it, but no candidate is a savior with all the solutions. I am so cynical about the process that I cover it, and regardless who wins, could be a Martian for all I care, nothing much will change. Ok, some futzing...err bones, around the edges. That is about it

[still_one]

145. and what is your view on Simone Zimmerman being appointed Jewish Outreach Coordinator

by the Sanders campaign?

What do you think that means

[tammywammy]

146. She was suspended from the campaign

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/14/bernie-sanders-suspends-jewish-outreach-coordinator-after-reports-of-her-criticisms-of-israel/

[still_one]

150. but why was she appointed in the first place. It was no secret where her sympathies

stood regarding the boycott of Israel

There were a lot of people he could have chosen as Jewish Outreach Coordinator. Instead he choose someone who was an extremely polarizing figure.

My point being that the implication in this thread, that people that choose a particular avatar may have done so for anti-Jewish reasons, is bullshit

I can tell you the reason it was done. Because a DU member who had that avatar for some time, was questioned about that by another DUer, with the connotation that they actually held anti-Jewish sentiments. Not only was that false, but they were stalked by that accusation.

and guess what? Some folks realized what garbage that was, and showed solidarity because of the obscene imiplication:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1587028

[tammywammy]

152. I know about solidarity with mcar

(See my avatar)

I'm not sure if the alliance with Zimmerman was due to agreement with her views or lack of vetting. The fact they suspended her two days after the announcement shows gross incompetence in the Sanders campaign. If they agreed with her they should have kept her. If they didn't vet her, they're just lazy.

[still_one]

155. I know you do. It was more to inform others in this thread, so I did it with a "dog whistle"

of my own, to exemplify how unfair it was to assume the worst possible connotation from someone's avatar, when it is an expression of solidarity with someone who was picked on unfairly by some parties, and nothing to do with any anti-Jewish sentiments

[nadinbrzezinski]

147. You are comparing a clear dog whistle

With outreach? At least you are not going all Charlie Hebdo here. But you have, accidentally mind you, proven a stark point. Just like Obama, Sanders is damned if he does, or does not?

And if he should get elected, he will get that treatment from supposed progressive sad well

[still_one]

153. but you have no idea how this bullshit started, do you. It was from some Sanders'

folks who decided to stalk a Hillary supporter with that avatar, implying the most vile insinuation:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1587028

Those that did that were showing solidarity with the garbage implication that was being made, not because of some anti-Jewish sentiment which you are spewing out in this flame-bait thread.

and speaking of dog whistles, what do you think this entire thread is?

Perhaps you will tell us again how independent you are in regard to Sanders and Clinton, and I will believe that too

[nadinbrzezinski]

158. Excuse me Hillary supporters questioned my

Last edited Sat Apr 16, 2016, 06:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Life story well before that crap started. So spare me

As to stalking, I have had stalkers for real so again spare me.

You defend this M'kay. Speaks about you. I mean it

[mcar]

163. Thank you, still_one

[still_one]

165. taking things out of context is SOP for some

[CorkySt.Clair]

177. +1

The thread she originally started this ludicrous canard in, she got locked out of for a predictably nasty response she gave to someone who didn't agree with her.

but another poster was able to point out the (also predictable) inaccuracies of this particular diatribe.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1744575

[still_one]

179. Thanks. Appreciate it

[Hoyt]

154. Blaming Mexicans, Vietnamese, Indians, etc., for taking jobs is a dog whistle too, IMO.

[still_one]

156. and either ignoring, or not realizing that the reason the avatar started was because

a DUer who had that avatar was being accused of having it for the wrong reasons:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1587028

It was a vile implication, and it wasn't just this link, they continued to pursue it, and are obviously continuing to do so with this flame bait OP

[Hoyt]

157. I don't believe Woody ever blamed a Mexican for anything, can't say that for Sanders' supporters.

Last edited Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:06 PM - Edit history (1)

[passiveporcupine]

203. I know it happened, but I don't know here who is a Sander's supporter who would do that

It was one or a few, right? Certainly not representative of how we feel about this. If I'd seen it I would have called them out on it.

[Hoyt]

204. How many Sanders' supporters have slammed Mexicans, and other foreigners,

as being little more than scabs. More than a few have said they don't give a damn about poor workers in foreign countries. Sorry, such Nationalism and hatred reminds me of Archie Bunker.

[passiveporcupine]

205. Like I said, I have not seen that

I don't read every thread here, but that certainly is NOT a trend in the Sander's camp.

[nadinbrzezinski]

207. Oh so you taking criticism of nafta as racism

let me tell you else agrees this is a problem (mostly is has destroyed domestic industry among other beauties) the Central de Los Trabajadores de México. How about them apples? The CTM agrees with the AFL-CIO that NAFTA has been a disaster and is in the process of destroying the job market in MEXICO.

[nadinbrzezinski]

159. Yes, but that one is to the point we all hear it

[DemocraticWing]

166. Some of the people here are insinuating Bernie has secret hordes of money too.

As you are well aware, the idea that a Jewish person has a hidden treasure they are hiding from everybody else has a long history. If Bernie wins New York, we'll probably have to endure DUers outright calling him greedy and a number of other things.

[nadinbrzezinski]

170. We are far from hitting bottom

I agree

[Brickbat]

171. The heart depicted in images of Mary, often pierced, is not meant to be a real heart.

It's a symbol. The heart depicted in images of Jesus, however, is his actual heart.

[artislife]

211. It is anti catholic

and the asshats who promote is are probably lilly white, well
-to-do posters who got theirs and don't want to help up anyone.

They certainly aren't Latino. And I told one of them that it is being noted as the anti Catholicism that it is. Now that is really taking her votes for granted. Have I seen any of the H Latinos get upset? No...that tells me a lot.

[George II]

219. Are we back on this AGAIN?????? "Anti Catholic"?

Last edited Tue Apr 19, 2016, 02:30 PM - Edit history (1)

[zappaman]

220. Shhhh!

Let them have their phony outrage.

[mcar]

221. Again with the logic!