Shed no tears for independent voters who didn't get to mess up the NY primary.

[Gomez163]

Let remember what an independent voter is - NOT A DEMOCRAT.

Usually a faux hipster that's too cool to be in a real party. So sit this one out at the Starbuck's, dood. We don't care.

[LexVegas]

1. Heh. nt

[stonecutter357]

2. K&R!

[B Calm]

3. Trashing Thread

[Gomez163]

18. Be proud of your hipsterism

[Capt. Obvious]

59. Be proud that you are #441

[Travis_0004]

81. can I be 442?

[Capt. Obvious]

84. No

[DebDoo]

77. Be proud of your blind devotion and inability/refusal to think for yourself

[Gomez163]

92. You're the one in the car in front of me at the drive thru window that

makes us all wait forever because you can't pick out the food you want. The rest of us have our order ready before we left the house.

[bkkyosemite]

4. And let's remember when you want an Independent to help us win the GE ....that they

would be helping Dems....don't you people understand. You keep putting down the Independents and they will put down the candidate in the GE.

[Gomez163]

8. Its us or Trump. Go vote for that floppy haired blowhard. I don't care.

[bkkyosemite]

62. That's the problem you only care for your Hillary and Billary.

[anigbrowl]

122. Tell you what, go vote in the GOP primary. Teach those Dems a lesson.

I've been in enough abusive relationships that "you'll miss me if I leave!!" is pretty much an instant red flag for me. The Democratic party is a flawed institution and all of the candidates this cycle are imperfect, but it's still my political home and it will probably still be so long after your consistently rude behavior is nothing more than a bad memory. You don't speak for all independents or all Bernie Sanders voters and frankly I don't care if you personally sit at home sulking on election day or vote for some fascist candidate to punish the centrists/moderates you seem to hate so much.

[Ed Suspicious]

5. What a waste of bits.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

6. How do you know it's "usually a faux hipster that's too cool to be in a real party"? Do you...

...have a problem with hipsters? Seems like it, and not very progressive.

[Gomez163]

13. GET A HAIR CUT AND GET OFF MY LAWN.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

17. I'm sorry, did you answer the question? nt

[brush]

30. Come on now. Really?

No fair making people burst out laughing this early in the morning.

[LonePirate]

28. Hipsters became the subject of parody years ago. They are routinely mocked in all forms of media now

[LanternWaste]

52. A problem with hipsters equates to a lack of progressiveness?

A problem with hipsters equates to a lack of progressiveness? What brand of primary-season toilet-paper packaging did that particular bit of "wisdom" get ripped from?

Or is that simply some bit of emotional absolutism, convenient for the here and now, ready to be discarded as soon as ethically convenient?

(I'm going with the second... but I'd doubt anyone admit as much, instead rationalizing it as some new form of progressive puritanism)

[jmg257]

7. Thanks Gomer, I'm sure that'll help in the GE.

[Gomez163]

11. Didn't stop Bernie from trashing Hillary for the past year.

[jmg257]

21. Quid pro quo, Clarice, Quid pro quo

[LanternWaste]

58. Without movie quotes for the mentally undisciplined to rely on

Without movie quotes for the mentally undisciplined to rely on, many people's pretense at cleverness would be much more silent, and they would be compelled to address the subject rather than exemplify grade school petulance.

Not that you would ever do that...

[jmg257]

64. And we wouldn't have nearly as much fun either!

But yes - let us pretend to argue about this statement: "Didn't stop Bernie from trashing Hillary for the past year."

because THAT will be productive.

[QC]

89. Are you trying to suggest that people other than registered Democrats

are allowed to vote in the general election?

[jmg257]

107. No I am trying to suggest that people who are pissed off now, in the primary, will not

be so inclined to turn out with gusto with support for the Democrat nominee in the GE.


I would also suggest that publicly personally insulting & demeaning such people who are already pissed off:

Shed no tears for independent voters who didn't get to mess up the NY primary. [View all]
Let remember what an independent voter is - NOT A DEMOCRAT.
Usually a faux hipster...

will likely enhance that affect.

[QC]

108. Oh, I agree.

I was thinking of the way Camp Rightward Red Arrow has been acting all along as though getting the nomination is the whole game.

Alienating nearly half the party might work in the primary, but it will present a serious problem in the general. She thinks she can go schorched earth now and "unify the party later" but I'm not so sure about that.

[jmg257]

110. Ah - gotcha! She has indeed had her fair share of 'ignorant/naive young voter' comments.

And yes, Camp Hillary is similar, but Sanders supporters have done their fair share of mud-slinging as well.

Cheers!

[Ash_F]

9. You know the general election is a thing right?

[Gomez163]

12. Only one side is trying to be nice. That's over.

[Ash_F]

19. Something like 30% percent of voters are Democrats. Half of that is 15%

Everybody calm down and realize this is not a winning strategy.

[Gomez163]

22. So we just lie down and take it and you get another Michigan where

the real Democrats voted for Hillary and god knows who voted for Bernie.

[Ash_F]

24. I think you can make an argument for closed primaries without coming across to way you have

[Gomez163]

31. They've gotten on my last nerve. You realize that Hillary or Bernie

would govern the same and get the same things accomplished with a GOP congress???

[Ash_F]

37. I wasn't really commenting on my preference in this thread.

[LisaM]

63. Not on this forum. Having a closed primary is treated like voter disenfranchisement here.

Everyone is welcome to belong or not to a political party but there are good reasons for having a closed primary - one of which is, if one party has chosen its candidate, there is nothing stopping voters in successive primaries from crossing over to cause trouble for the other party. That's also part of the reason for having party mainstays as super delegates.

Caucuses are far more disenfranchising than closed primaries yet I don't see anyone doubling down and trying to sue to make them more fair and open. What if you're a caregiver? How do you make it to a caucus? What if you don't have a car (not having a car, BTW, is not a valid reason in Washington for not attending a caucus).

[Ash_F]

65. I do think closed primaries are disenfranchising.

An open primary can be a great way bring people into the party and make them active organizers.

I do not think a significant portion of voters are crossing over from Republicans to vote Sanders just to make the election easier for them. That would take a lot of organization which they are just not showing.


You make a good case against caucuses. They are from a time with less technology and it was the only way for voters to actually come together to talk about candidates and their platform.

With social media and the internet becoming more in use, there is no need for caucuses. They should be done away with by the next election.

[LisaM]

71. That would hold true if it really brought people into the party.

I don't think it does. They are identifying as Democrats for one election only and, as we saw in Wisconsin, sometimes for one candidate only. New York's rules are a little stricter than most, but over all, I think it's fair that you should belong to the party of the candidate you're voting for in the primary.

[Ash_F]

76. I work with the Democratic Party in my county

Good people but they are old and tired. Something has to be done.

[LisaM]

86. It's happening with both parties.

I think there are a number of things at play - we're dealing with younger people that have learned, for whatever reason, to reject labels (case in point, millennial women rejecting the label "feminist' without really understanding how it was a badge of honor for people in earlier generations). The parties are both in a state of flux. Voting systems vary wildly. People identify with the candidate far more than with the party. I mentioned this a lot in 2008, mostly because I remember Obama's 2004 speech at the convention where he said that America wasn't blue and it wasn't red, it was purple. I remember thinking at the time that his identification with the Democratic party probably wasn't as deep as it had been for previous party stars.

I think in one sense he was wrong - instead of becoming purple, we've become more blue and more red with a big divide in the middle (as far as voting goes). Ideologically, he was probably right. What I think we're slowing moving towards is the creation of a permanent third party, and then forming coalitions the way they do in Canada or in the UK. The two party system functioned when the parties were stronger and had coalitions within themselves that could caucus together (Democrats and Southern Democrats, Republicans and moderate Republicans) but that model got split apart a long time ago.

It's no surprise to me that the number of registered Democrats in Brooklyn has plummeted. Typical Democratic voters, particularly lower-incomes ones, are being systematically evicted from areas that are undergoing gentrification. The people replacing them are liberal in some ways (gay rights being a major example), but not in others - they clearly don't favor protecting small businesses or finding ways to keep previous residents in their homes, and they are pretty affluent. They don't register as Democrats or Republicans. Now they have a candidate who fires them up for whatever reason, but lo, the primaries are closed to them if they didn't figure out last October that they might want to vote in the Democratic or Republican primary. Anyone could have predicted this.

[Sheepshank]

88. In Idaho, many got to vote both Dem and Rep

because of the time between those primaries and being able to re-register. Strategic voting to help their preferred candidate, and help their preferred opposing candidate.

But generally speaking, open Primaries are a disaster in that voters are too easily encouraged to vote as part of a strategy rather than 100% of the time who they would like to win (as the rules general require, but how is it enforceable?)

[angrychair]

100. They are a a necessary evil in Washington

They are cheap to do. We don't get money from the DNC and we don't make the taxpayers of Washington pay for it like republicans do.

So unless you want to pay to cover a primary for the Washington Democratic Party, it will be a caucus next time too.

[TheCowsCameHome]

29. Gomer thinks it's a place where generals are elected.

Shhhh!

[geek tragedy]

10. closed primaries are the artisanal hipster pickle of voting rights issues nt

Last edited Tue Apr 19, 2016, 02:20 PM - Edit history (1)

[Gomez163]

20. heh. You're one of the good ones.

[geek tragedy]

23. voting for Sanders as a registered Dem the ultimate in hipster cred

shows you were into Bernie before it was cool

[LonePirate]

32. Some of us didn't have to change our party affiliation to vote for him.

We won't be changing our registration regardless if he wins or loses.

[geek tragedy]

34. these are people who didn't care whether it was Bill de Blasio or Christie Quinn

or Carlos Danger being the next mayor. Not sure how progressive and activisty they really are.

Also they didn't register to oppose Andrew Cuomo in the Democratic primary in 2014, and don't participate in any of our Assembly, State Senate, or Congressional Primaries.

Low attention span indies are not the guiding light of our party.

[All in it together]

67. Thanks, I'm one of the many Dems who support Bernie

And I accept Indies into the party without awful restrictions. I reject bumping people off the Dem roles. Big tent is not a good thing for Hillary.

[geek tragedy]

69. I too welcome everyone--into the party. But if they don't join

the party, they don't join the party.

[lostnfound]

14. Harden not your hearts.

[Gomez163]

48. my arteries are a different story

[Stallion]

15. The Other Day I read one Thread With About 200 Ugly, Vicious Adjectives Describing Clinton

"What word best describes Hillary Clinton". Excuse me if I've lost patience with the non-Democratic bomb-throwers amongst us.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1764004

[Lucinda]

55. That is a whole lot of uninformed nastiness.

[TheCowsCameHome]

60. Well then, boot them out of your clique.

There must be 900 or more purged by now.

[disillusioned73]

16. .....

[Gomez163]

25. So for a year they've been saying that Hillary is worse than Hitler

but don't answer back or they won't vote for her in the general election.

You might hurt their fee fees.

[NurseJackie]

26. An impulse voter ... not serious enough, or dedicated enough to declare a party affiliation.

I always get the feeling that they have this vanity about themselves over the fact that they're "independent" ... as if such a label makes them smarter than everyone else.

Well, I'm not in a position to judge their actual IQ score, some may indeed be pretty smart. But when it comes right down to it, even with all that intelligence going for them, they've OUTFOXED THEMSELVES.

Some may have felt they were "sending a message" to the party by not joining the party (because it wasn't perfect enough??) but in so doing, they've locked themselves out and prevented any sort of meaningful participation in shaping and guiding the party.

Lessons learned, I guess. (Or not ... we'll see what happens next time.)

[azurnoir]

98. where ever did you get that childhood gif of Hillary, it's really cute

I like it thanks

[TowneshipRebellion]

99. Strong post.

nt.

[TheCowsCameHome]

27. Get your kneepads out come GE time.

You'll be begging for indy support.

[brush]

39. That's how it should be. If indepedents don't register, they vote in the GE.

[Stallion]

45. You'll Be Needing the Same Knee-Pads-Your Vote Isn't Any More Important than Every Other One

...the Democratic Socialist Sandernistas telling us how to win a General Election when they haven't won one in almost Century, if ever.

[LonePirate]

51. Any Independent supporting Sanders who is indifferent towards Trump or Cruz deserves no begging.

It also calls into question their support for Sanders' agenda given the miles and miles of daylight between Sanders' views on health care, education, civil rights, income inequality, the environment, etc, otherwise known as Sanders' entire platform.

[arely staircase]

113. No shit. I can't think of a bigger waist of time. nt

[SheenaR]

33. This line of thinking

is exactly why we will have President Kasich. Independents are faux-hipsters now... Got it.

You will be crying for these Independent votes in a few months.

What a ass-backwards way of thinking

[geek tragedy]

38. most independents realize that the only point of voter registration

in a party is the ability to vote in that party's primaries.

they realize they're giving that up when they decide against registering with a party.

[SheenaR]

47. Not all states are equal

Many here in RI are unaffiliated because they do not want to be harassed by state and local mailings. And when it's time (semi-closed) for Primary, they come back to do their duty and follow suit in November.

[geek tragedy]

57. most Independents are very predictable in how they vote

in November.

In New York City, it's very, very well understood that all the local races are decided in the Democratic primaries, and that if you want to play a part in that process, you need to register as a D. If you don't register as a D, you're opting out of that process.

Mayor de Blasio's biggest hurdle was not Joe Lhota it was the Democratic party primary that involved Carlos Danger and Mike Bloomberg's Mini Me, Christine Quinn.

Same thing for State Assembly, City Council, etc etc.

[Gomez163]

40. What name should I write on your latte???

[SheenaR]

44. Hey Gomez

Lifelong Democrat. Worked on two Presidential Campaigns. You know exactly what you can do with that latte.

[Gomez163]

49. OKOKOKOK. Sheesh.

[SheenaR]

54. With love :-) n/t

[apnu]

80. Kasich?!?

He's going exactly nowhere right now. His only hope is a floor fight at the RNC that, some how, leaves him holding the bag. He'll look like that Minion that swallowed the ruby in the scrum in the Minions move, wearing a "WTF just happened face"

The odds of that happening are pretty slim.

But beyond that if independents who like Bernie go for Kasish in November, then they've clearly not been paying attention to anything going on right now.

[SheenaR]

95. Do you think

they are letting Trump get the nom? Or Cruz?

All signs point to Kasich

[apnu]

118. I think everybody is up for grabs in Cleveland

And both Ryan and Romney have been making all the right waves, including the 'aw-shucks, I don't want to run' denials so common in Presidential election politics.

It could be anybody. But even if it is Kasich, he'd be screwed. He doesn't have the staff or much of anything else to wage a national election after the RNC. Anybody who's the last man standing there is going to have that problem.

[CrowCityDem]

35. Let's get it trending: #SelfDisenfranchisement

[NurseJackie]

68. Oh, that's absolutely perfect! (And it's correct!)

They did it to themselves. They have nobody to blame but themselves.

[Gomez163]

36. They latest one I heard is they're going to primary superdelegates

who dont switch to Bernie.

1. That isnt exactly a charm offensive.

2. These are the people who sat out the last two mid-terms - letting the tea party gain power.

[geek tragedy]

42. lol, good luck to them with that.

primarying an incumbent requires more than clicky-clicky and street puppets.

[DefenseLawyer]

41. I paid good money to join this Country Club, you can't just start letting everybody in.

[ibegurpard]

43. "we don't care"

Good luck getting their votes in the GE

[Gomez163]

46. They can vote for the clown then

[Stallion]

66. Ha!Ha! Sanders Supporters Now Threatening to Drive the Republican Clown Car

Last edited Tue Apr 19, 2016, 01:31 PM - Edit history (1)

nm

[astrophuss42]

50. Sounds pretty hipstery to me

My points of view haven't changed much but my party has.

[Zorra]

53. I'll send you a big box of tissues in November if Hillary is nominated.

I fear the pain and sorrow will be universal and profound among Democrats after enormous numbers of these Independents who you insult stay home or vote third party on Nov. 8.

[Marr]

56. Should've mentioned you want them off your lawn, too. /nt

[floriduck]

61. If you understood the injunction request issue, you'd realize

what an ignorant and uninformed statement you just made. Your mother must be so proud.

[questionseverything]

72. last oct when i realized the ny cut off was before single debate, i was kind of schocked

to have to re register 6 months before the actual primary is ridiculous...it just screams disenfranchisement

dem states should be inclusive not models of corporate party big wigs and high rollers deciding for the little people

but evidently ny has been taken over by wall street and the big banks and they run the show

throw in the disappearing democratic voter registrations and ny seems to be running a 3rd world election process

[azurnoir]

70. if Hillary is the nominee Indi's will remember when it comes to vote in the GE

[cherokeeprogressive]

73. Party uber alles. Tres delish.

[AZ Progressive]

74. In other words, someone who approves of corruption and big power to big corporations

[DebDoo]

75. We just might sit the GE out too - good luck winning without us

[MisterP]

78. "how dare the commoners we drummed out of the party try and take it back by VOTING"

stop winning by voter suppression and we'll stop saying you can only win by voter suppression

[99Forever]

79. I'll shead no tears for...

...the Demcratic Party if they nominate the wrong candidate and we end up with President Clowncar.

But what the fuck, right? You get to disenfranchise lots of potential future Democrats for a chance at a dirty "win" for your dirty candidate. Hope you enjoy your petty little victory dance today. You can't lock those same awful independents out come November. Anyone who thinks they won't remember who fucked them over today, has their head up their ass.

[intheflow]

82. Bullshit.

The Democratic party as represented by the DNC aren't Democrats - or more precisely, they've hijacked the party of Roosevelt to turn it into Republican-lite, where they are more into pandering to corporate interests to get money than they are to addressing MY needs as a liberal citizen-voter.

I always identified as Democratic growing up, the party of Roosevelt, Kennedy, Johnson. I registered independent for many years feeling that the Democratic party leadership didn't represent my interests as a progressive voter, but I still voted straight Democratic party ticket for decades. I switched registration status to vote for Obama in 2008, but you can't tell me I wasn't a good and faithful Democrat all those years I voted straight-ticket. And FINALLY there's someone running as a Democrat who I really feels represents the Democratic "me" all those years I registered Independent. I'll bet you 90% of those Independents are other iterations of me, of the progressive wing of the party that the DNC has worked for decades to shut down, shut up, and destroy. Sorry! We're not going away! And I will shed tears for my progressive brothers and sisters who are denied voting for Sanders because of some bullshit assumption you and the rest of the DNC-Democrats make about the purity of Democratic Party.

[Blue_Tires]

83. Agreed...

No matter the political stripe, there's no reason to not know the election rules in YOUR OWN FUCKING STATE

[peacebird]

85. What about the voters whose D registration was changed to inactive, unaffiliated or indie?

The people who only found out their registration had changed this week, and had never rquested such a change in status? You totally okay with disenfranchising them too?

[Retrograde]

87. Won't Sanders be on the November NY ballot anyway?

Isn't he already the candidate of New York's Family Workers Party? So whatever happens before Philadelphia, his supporters in New York will still be able to vote for him in the general election. And maybe swing the state so that a real 3rd party gets a chunk of electoral votes. Now that would be a real blow to the established Democratic party.

And if Sanders does well enough to get the Democratic nomination, thanks to another obscure New York election law he can be on the ballot twice, as both a Democratic and Family Workers candidate!

[ieoeja]

90. Do they get tax refunds since their taxes help pay for this primary?

Or do you just want to totally fuck them over?

[Gomez163]

91. If they had registered with a REAL party, they would be allowed to vote.

[ieoeja]

93. Does not address the problem. Taxes should not be used for private events. n/t

[Gomez163]

94. If it meant not soiling this election with your hipster vote

I'd be all for giving you a refund.

[ieoeja]

96. I wish this was real life so I could tell you to fuck off to your face.

I've voted in all but one Democratic primary since 1980. I was a $100 a month sustaining member of the DNC for years. I donated the maximum to Obama's campaign in 2008. I've been a DUer since its earliest days. And I am not the one tossing out rightwing tropes.

The only people I see use "latte" as an insult are far right-wing nutjobs and Gomez163.

The only people I see claim that "Liberals are just using African-Americans" are far right-wing nutjobs and Hillary supporters on DU.

The only people I see claiming that people only vote for Democrats for "free stuff" are far right-wing nutjobs and Hillary supporters on DU.

The only people I see arguing against healthcare are far right-wing nutbjos and Hillary supporters on DU.


And you have the nerve to try and paint me as not being a Democrat?

[Dem2]

97. Terrible post

This is a horrible attitude to have.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

101. I'm an independent voter. Massachusetts law let's

us vote fir the candidste of OUR choice.


But thank you for channeling DNC Debbie! How ver proud uou must feel for telling us to fuck off in your own little special way.



And do you believe that we "hipsters" should show up for Hilly?

[Gomez163]

105. I know you won't

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

111. Since your attitude is indicative of camp weathervane

don't expect the great majority of dienfranchised voters to give a shit about you either.

[Thinkingabout]

102. I love the democratic way, where a majority who votes rules.

[SDJay]

103. I Am 44 Years Old

I am a family man with a wife, a small child and hopefully another one on the way - we're waiting to find out about that. /fingers crossed/ I will not ever put one dime of my money into a Starbuck's. I am not up on the latest fashion. I like the beer I like, regardless of whether it's cool at the time or not.

On weekends, I mow my lawn, work in my yard and take my dogs to the beach. I barbecue dinner four or five times per week for my family. I live in a residential area.

I am not a hipster.

The point? I'm also not a registered democrat? You know why? I won't support corruption. I won't support a few puppet masters. I won't send my money to a party I no longer recognize.

It's true that it's convenient for me - in California, I don't need to register as a Democrat to vote in the primary. If that was required, I would do so and then go back to proudly unaffiliated as soon as the voting was done.

The other point? Your post is so stupid, so ignorant, so dismissive and so idiotic that it belies any rational thought.

I am still going to vote for HRC in the GE for obvious reasons.

I am not some uninformed scumbag trying to support the flavor of the month.

Simply a shameful, hateful post. Own it.

[apcalc]

104. I shed no tears

For Independents who screwed up and didn't register in time.

I was an Indie and changed my registration LAST SUMMER.

NO EXCUSES! STOP WHINING.

[Gomez163]

114. "I was an independent voter for decades" (translation - Republican)

[randome]

117. Alternate translation.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

109. A REAL party. Does that include loyalty oaths? Secret handshakes? High grades? Shoe size?

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789

[brooklynite]

115. No, a simple check-mark in the DEMOCRATIC box will suffice

On the other hand, if you check "I DO NOT WISH TO ENROLL IN A PARTY" I think we should respect that choice.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

119. In my state we don't register by party.

We're in whatever party we say we are or no party at all. No loyalty oaths, no tests, no check marks, no picture ID.

It's quite liberating.

[Fresh_Start]

112. I think closed primaries also minimize disrupters.

I registered as a republican about a month ago...just so I could pick the republican which will cause the most damage to that party.
Not sure yet if Cruz or Trump would be worse...but whichever I think will be worse for the GOP and best of the Democratic party is who will get my primary vote.

Then I will return to my more comfortable 'decline to state' status.

[polly7]

116. You sound bitter.

People with previously nothing (no party) to believe in will not be willing to compromise their own principles until they do find what they're looking for. Millions seem to have found it.

Sucks for the status quo, eh?

[Gomez163]

121. Its called DEMOCRATIC Underground not Independent Underground.

[GardeningGal]

123. Well, since you dislike Independent voters so much,

I'll be sure to skip the election in November if Hillary wins. I guess she doesn't need the independent vote in swing states.