Easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God

[TomCADem]

It amazes me how Republicans and Evangelists can insist that they are moral Christians in light of their indifference, if not contempt, for the poor. It must take an amazing amount of mental gymnastics to wage a war on women's rights based on abortion, which is not directly mentioned in the bible, yet ignore the repeated references to poverty and the rich:

Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Luke 18:25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Yet, Republicans have managed to push the idea that the rich are the most moral and devout members of American society. How can someone insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible, yet disregard the numerous condemnation of the rich and exaltation of the poor contained in the Bible?

[madaboutharry]

1. They think they are rich because

God loves them and found them worthy of being rich. They view those who are poor as being defective in some way as to not earning the love of God.

Twisted logic, but that is what they believe.

[roguevalley]

7. I am old and struggling with things getting better. But I am rich in the things that matter.

My memories of my family and dogs, the cats who loved me and the friends who were in my life when I needed them are my gold. Ego is the enemy. What matters is the love you give and get. I love DU. It is part of my gold.

[Scootaloo]

15. Ahhh, Calvinism

Predestination, you gotta love it.

[reusrename]

22. "Christ was perfect and we're not."

"We're mere mortals, but we can become immortal by saying we love Jesus. We certainly can't be expected to behave like him."

It's pretty fucked up and has nothing to do with the way I was raised Christian.

[Firebirds01]

24. When I graduated high school

in 2001 someone at my parents church got me a book. I cant remember the name of it but it was a BIG seller at the time. It said that God wants you to be rich and if you arent rich, it is because of your sins. How disturbing is that?!?!

There was a really rich kid I knew (house in La Jolla) who told me that American was a christian national and he could prove it because we hate the poor. He said it was Christian to hate the poor. I had no idea what to say to that. He said, that the rich can donate more to the church and the poor cant so it is part of the christian faith to hate them.

And these people get mad when their policies breed things like socialism (which is what happened in the Gilded Age).

They dont care about the bible or any higher morals, they care about being rich and will justify it any way they can.


I should also mention that the little rich fucker's dad paid for him to go to Cornell and major in hotel management.

[hrmjustin]

2. As a christian I remind my RW friends that Jesus said nothing on gays or abortion, but he...

.... had an opinion about the rich as you have pointed out. I agree that you can not take Christ's teachings and blend them with RW politics. But these people find a way.

[mrsadm]

3. I agree!

This never ceases to amaze me

[deurbano]

4. Exactly...

I have this conversation (debate) with my evangelical(ish) Republican mom all the time. Also: Blessed are the poor...As you have done onto the least of these brethren, so you have done onto me.... (etc.)

[TomCADem]

11. True - "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth” (Matthew 5:5)"

Looking at the Bible, you might even think that Jesus was a socialist and for bank regulation. Makes you wonder what Jesus would think of Bain Capital and Bainport?

"Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves."

- Matthew 21:12

"On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple area and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves,"

- Mark 11:15

"In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money.

So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

John 2:14-16

[ThoughtCriminal]

5. Since the last shall be first

it might explain why republicans keep voting for people that will make them poorer.

But really, I find that most conservative RW churches rarely pay any attention to what Jesus said. It's all Old testament and Paulist doomsday prophesy with cheap grace for a good seat in Heaven where they can watch everybody else burn.

[We People]

18. It's amazing how they ignore the most important parts

like they've never read much of the Bible - just the part they use to get whatever it is they want from life. What's really bad is that their preachers rarely dwell on what Jesus said and did either. So they remain ignorant and self-righteous.

[iemitsu]

6. We should be thankful for the rich

as they carry the threat of eternal damnation and fill the vacancies in hell so the rest of us can die easy, knowing that our poverty and our suffering will pay out in the hereafter.

[Kablooie]

8. It's easier for a needle to go through the eye of a camel

than for the kingdom of God to enter a rich man.

[defacto7]

9. It's easier for the eye of a rich man to enter a camel

than for a needle to go through the kingdom of God.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

10. I'm sure when Romnly heard that he thought...

"I'm gonna have to buy a bigger needle."

[GallopingGhost]

12. n/t

[dimbear]

13. Mormons look at this differently. There's no problem at all in Mormonism with being rich,

it's a sign that God is smiling on you. This is one of the major differences between the Mormons and the mainline Christians, who pretend there is a problem with being rich but act exactly the opposite.

[GallopingGhost]

14. The starkest Biblical warning about ignoring

the poor comes from Matthew 25:41-45.

Jesus will one day turn a blind eye to those with an arrogant and dismissive attitude about those in need.

Either the evangelical rich don't believe those verses, or they don't take them very seriously.

[world wide wally]

16. The closest Jesus ever came to mentioning abortion...

He never did actually mention abortion, and I don't have the energy to look it up right now for verse and chapter, but I think it's in Luke. When Jesus was carrying the cross through the streets, he fell down and a lady wiped his brow and she was crying. Jesus said to her "don't weep for me, but weep for your daughters who will pray to be baron.
This was more a statement of how the world would become a place where perhaps women would not want to have children. Not an indictment of that decision.
The entire statement was nonjudgemental and just a statement of fact.
He also never mentioned homosexuality, but he did condemn divorce something like 35 times.
I'm not a Bible scholar, but I did catch a few things when I was browsing for loopholes.

[mnhtnbb]

20. There actually is an abortion ritual in the Old Testament.

Fundies and right wingers go NUTS when you mention it and say, oh, no, it's the test for an adulterous wife. Yeah, but the point is that IF the wife has been unfaithful and is subjected to the priest's ritual then the 'test' causes an abortion. Guess what? Then the husband isn't responsible for raising a child conceived in adultery. Pretty nice little test, huh? Fundies go NUTS, absolutely NUTS when you show them this passage.

Numbers 5:11-31


New International Version (NIV)
The Test for an Unfaithful Wife

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+5%3A11-31&version=NIV

[Spitfire of ATJ]

17. What they have done is claim the rich are "truly blessed"...

They've taken that a step further and figured poverty is a curse. Something someone did was a sin and God is punishing them with poverty. This makes them think the poor brought it on themselves so they have no sympathy for them and feel superior about themselves.

They just tell the poor to repent and their lives will magically improve. When it doesn't happen they'll say they weren't sincere about it.

When you ask them if they have repented they say they don't need to because they didn't sin and that's why they have money.

They'll look right at you and say, "That's why it says 'In God We Trust' on our money."

Makes me want to punch them in the face.

[whathehell]

19. Yes, have you ever noticed how RARELY one here's that quote these days?

[bklyncowgirl]

21. The great thing about the Bible or the Koran is that you can pick and choose which parts you like

It's sort of a giant Rorshach test. I'm an old Catholic school girl came up in the Catholic social tradition which is very, sometimes radically liberal. I love lefty Jesus. Other traditions point to the harsh Old Testament laws and Paulist doctrine and the book of Revelations. As for the literal interpretation of the Bible, that depends on what parts you choose to emphasize and the spin which your particular tradition puts on it.

[TomCADem]

25. Yet, Evagelists Insist On Taking Creatinism Literally...

...But conveniently ignore these passages. If anything, given Jesus's actual experiences and the fact that these stories, particularly the money changer stories were likely based on actual fact, it is amazing that these stories are ignored while the Creation stories are taken as absolute fact.

[bklyncowgirl]

27. Christians aren't the only ones of course, Muslims do the same.

There is a beautiful, life affirming Islamic tradition based on the Koran. Then there's Al Queda. Same book--two diametrically opposed views.

[RomneyLies]

23. Those are some passages conveniently ignored by modern rightwing Christians

Any Christian sect that pays attention to those passages are invariably progressive.

[nobunnyclue]

26. Enjoyed reading this thread because

... I was explaining EXACTLY the same thing to my 8 y.o. when I put her to sleep. She was baptized, but there's no way I'm turning her over to the people who run PSR (a.k.a. "religious ed&quot around here. She'll just have to make her own confirmation as an adult if she chooses Christian faith and wants the rubber stamp.

If there is one thing good that I get from watching the religious right nut-jobs crawl out of the woodwork around election time, it's that I get to see just who I would trust with my children. I suggest everyone looking at this thread take some time out, sit down with your kids (if you have any) and explain the risks (everything from basic hypocrisy to total abuse of trust) of having the wrong person "mediate" your faith for you.

[TomCADem]

28. "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil..."

“For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows” (I Timothy 6:10).

I dedicate this last one to Rmoney.