What the hell has happened to this website?

[KCDem]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by In_The_Wind (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

I joined DU shortly after this site came into existence... as a result of the Florida fiasco in 2000. Was fairly active.. mostly a lounge lizard, but I'd like to think I had a few insightful posts in that time. Moved states, divorced, life happened. Recently (several months ago, tbh) started following DU again, but this is my first post since 2002 or 2003. WTH is wrong with some of you people? Hillary Clinton? Are you kidding me? The vitriol coming from the Hillary camp is vicious and very undemocratic. Several people have posted today that Bernie should concede. And you call yourselves progressives? Hillary is no democrat, and if the DNC continues to push her, the democratic party has lost a generation of voters. I understand Hillary scores HUGE with the plus 60 crowd. Not conceding that (nor am I conceding that I'm close to that). But seriously... we need to focus on the FUTURE. That's not Hillary. No way, no chance. The decision is do we figure this out NOW and win the young folk, or does the DNC only hope to appease Ms. Clinton.

[pangaia]

1. Mrs Clinton appeases Mrs Clinton, and the rest of the oligarchy as well.

[Trust Buster]

2. "Hillary is no Democrat" ? And you're preaching to us ? Get real.

[Bohemianwriter]

68. Her policy record, her voting record...

Speaks in volumes by itself...

[ChisolmTrailDem]

88. these people are literally attempting to change the definition of Democrat and Progressive. nt

[Bohemianwriter]

128. "Not on my watch"...

Looking at the clock, thinking it's getting late....

[TM99]

160. And the DLC and the Progressive Policy Institute

have nearly succeeded in redefining the left and those terms.

If another Clinton is elected, the New Dem take over is complete. The progressive left is in the wilderness without a party in this fucked up two party system. Change is coming. They just don't know it yet.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

161. BINGO!!!! You GET IT !!! nt

[vintx]

174. Hear hear!

[Dem2]

89. It says "Democrat"

I suppose you could cherry pick things you don't like, then I could do that for virtually every Democrat, then I'll expect to hear that the party is shit and then, as usual, I realize very few Democrats post here.

[Bohemianwriter]

100. I look at their actions and agenda...

more than how they want to label themselves.

It's like those RW cults who calls themselves "Freedom" or "Liberty" and something and their agenda is the opposite of what they claim to be.
It's like when North Korea calls itself democratic. Or the old DDR labeling themselves as democratic. Same thing with Hillary.

She may call herself a Democrat, but her voting record and actions screams out Neocon a long way with close ties to neocons who eat at the same trough - Corporations who thinks that buying a politician is a better investment than giving their employees a living salary.

It looks like that republican policies have infested the democratic base when we hear crickets or feeble attempts to defend the likes of Loyd Blankfein with RW vitriol that Bernie supporters "hate people who makes money" for then to accuse Bernie of being a freeloading fatcat enrichening himself off the trough of the tax payer. And when that don't work, the attacks changes to "Bernie has spent decades in Office and have never made an honest buck" as if he was supposed to use his office for financial gain and dedicate four hours a day as a telemarketer, begging for free money for their next campaign to stay in office and repeat the same BS for the next election cycle.
I wonder why the anti-. gun crowd who basically blamed Bernie for the Sandy Hook shooting by linking him as an ally of a cynical gun industry at the same time as Hillary has a fundraiser with a former gun lobbyist.
The same thing happened when she was confronted by a Greepeace activist where she lost her temper and scorned the reporter with a bile of accusations and ad hominems about her own ties to the oil industry.

&list=WL&index=20

You can't write this stuff!

It's a source of great political satire - Lewis Black style!

[Dem2]

105. Nah

Hillary isn't much different that Bernie, he's seemingly more "pure" but also somewhat "naive" in my opinion. I don't know about the attacks on Bernie per se as I like both candidates and won't attack either, but attacks from both sides on our Democratic candidates are bullshit from where I sit.

Like I said, one could sit there cherry pick one's pet peeves, but in reality they're 95% the same.

[Bohemianwriter]

124. OK...

Let's talk a bit about "naivety" before we take the purity test.

It's an oxymoron to call oneself a progressive when the record screams the exact opposite.

Hillary has portrayed herself as some super human who gets things done single handily with a swarm of orcs trying to take her down.
It's about her ego.

With Bernie, it's a bit different. He does not talk about how he will be a super hero alone, fixing everything while we can sit back, and enjoy the dismantling of the corruption in politics penned in Citizens United (which Hillary does not want to get rid of entirely.

She is unclear about getting money out of politics. When she speaks, she talks about "dark money" in politics, getting on a rant about how she is a victim of a smear campaign.

A tactic she is using today with money from corporations She is using the same tactics against Bernie as she is complaining about being used against her.

I think she thrives well in the monetized environment in politics and policy making.

So then we have the differences, even if this was the biggest difference.

Bernie Sanders wants publicly financed elections.

Hillary wants corporations to still be able to buy a politician. Her "antidote" to that is a sort of a public slut shaming where the politicians must wear a slogan with the corporations sponsoring them.

Is that really punishment?

I would say "Fuck off! I already have their money and your vote dude! Now piss off and leave me with the really important people!"
That is if I was as sleazy as your average D.C hustler with the approval rating somewhere below Fidel Castro.

I have given plenty of examples of why Hillary is un-electable besides the actual national polling, and it's that "legendary experience" of hers.
I look at what she actually did on the job. And as a job interviewer looking to hire a manager, I would be puzzled by all her foreign fuck ups and willingness to sell out the voters to collaborate with the other party in dismantling the Constitution, a few countries and hundreds of thousands dead and millions of refugees as a result.

When she spoke of Qaddafi and said "we came, we saw, he died", she could have done her homework, and confided with Tony Blair about actually taking out Qaddafi who at the time was more open to talks with the west

We have her super predator remarks, her husbands irrational gaffes, doubling down on how black kids are not "good citizens"....
As if their Wall Street donors who tanked the economy are all a blessing to the American people with their existence.

He demonized teenagers on crack while Wall Street hustlers were snorting tons of cocaine, stuffing their gills with a multigalaxy of pills to keep up with the game. They use just as much drugs on Wall Street if not more than in your poor black neighborhood in Detroit. They can afford drugs on Wall Street. In Detroit, they can hardlt afford to eat. A result of Clinton's "Welfare Reform".

Bernie wants to end the drug war. The last I heard from Hillary on the subject, she thinks that non violent pot smoker and pot dealers are still too dangerous to be let lose on society.

TPP. Is she for or is she against a bill she helped draft and push herself?
Bernie is against.

Do you trust her judgment and honesty in light of the Panama Papers scandal where in Iceland, they have already taken actions against the criminal elements in government?

She voted for the "Patriot" Act. With her, spying on you will still be legal. Bernie wants to end this unconstitutional police state law.

She supports fracking.

Bernie doesn't.

Whatever Bernie has brought up, Hillary has followed, but as convincingly as a Nigerian 419 scammer.
I call republicans "republiscammers". Hillary's and Bill's 150 million dollars from Wall Street and others makes me suspicious that they belong in that club.
And when it doesn't work, she goes on a full frontal attack on everything he stands for, back peddles and gets into a defense mode on behalf of her bosses - the people who pays her bills.


It's an oxymoron to call oneself a progressive when the record screams the exact opposite.


Bernie and Hillary are worlds apart. A galaxy a part..
Bernie takes 27 dollars in contributions, and goes to strikers and actually speaks with them.

Hillary is being wined and dined by their bosses who forced their workers to strike because they are cheap bastards. Apparently, it's cheaper to buy a politician than to pay their employees a living wage, and give them benefits workers in all over Western Europe takes for granted: Paid vacation and sick-leave! There are difference from country to country.

And then she goes on the stump, claiming she's got the support of the union workers and the support is mutual. Right! Hillary is palling around with the bosses, and tries to convince us that she is on our side -the dirty proles who work the floor and not the people who bankroll her!

Does anyone actually believe that, swear on their mothers grave and two fingers up their nose?

Give me that person, and I will give you the descendant of the first follower of an organized religion - the first sucker.

[Dem2]

130. So the usual litany of DU attacks that I've read 100000 times and determined are mostly without meri

without merit. I considered all this wall-of-text drivel before I made my statement above. They are still 95% alike even if you cherry-pick your issues-of-choice that can be found in any book on how to attack Hillary.

[Bohemianwriter]

137. I doubt that you have read and understood what I wrote.

Because if you did, you would see the logic based on real life behind it. What I think you did, is to read it, and now live in denial.
But congrats with trying to debunk my "wall of words" without actually bothering to go into detail.

Another one of those with short attention span and cognitive dissonance based on candidate partisanship?

Funny how some love my writing. The ones who hates my writing and calls it "drivel" are mostly RWers who live in their bubble of an alternative reality.

The only reason why you haven't taken time to "debunk" what you call untruths, is because you can't. You have no merit to debunk them with.
If you did, you would pick me to pieces with one hand behind your back, and all brain activity half asleep.

Those are the differences between Bernie and Hillary.

Now you can try to deny that Hillary is against TOP, fracking, money in politics, illegal wars, holding criminal bankers liable, and the endless drug war from the Reagan era that Clinton chose to continue to target black kids.
I want you to debunk the meaning of the term "super-predator" as a slur to dehumanize the black kids who in the future would serve in the private prison industry The Clinton's have taken money from!

C'mon! Talk issues with me and don't leave me hanging with the intellectually lazy "they are without merit! bullshit!
The only thing they have in common is that they were born within the same species and have the same nationality.

Like stated, her record speaks in larger volumes than some pathetic temper tantrums about how hard it is to read longer posts where you actually have to focus a bit more than smarky two liners from Hillary supporters who think in their heads that they are clever!


Thank you for playing. It was as pleasurable as expected from someone who think that Bernie and Hillary are somehow ideological twins. They are not. She eats from the same trough as Ted Cruz. And you think she will be tougher on the banks than any republican president.

[passiveporcupine]

151. You call this drivel?

You haven't offered anything to rebut it.

[Dem2]

181. Wall of text kitchen sink post

Nobody responds to copy pasta. It's actually a form of diversion to dump everything on somebody knowing they can't respond to all of it.

[passiveporcupine]

149. thank you for saying this so eloquently

[Bohemianwriter]

156. You think Bernie is in the market for a speech writer..?

[bbgrunt]

162. wow! that was simply wonderful!

[Carolina]

171. K&R

Excellent post... all true but the Hillies will call it an attack because they can't handle the truth

[vintx]

173. THIS!

[cheapdate]

69. Word. I support Sanders

but that's just complete bulls¥€t.

[Bluerome]

3. So you came back to stir up more emotions and jump into the fighting?

You'll see that there are plenty here who are trying to calm things down.

[Punkingal]

22. People like you, who joined yesterday?

Snort.

[Paulie]

32. Cut them some slack

11 of 15 total posts since joining are in the Hillary group.

People have to eat and find shelter after all.

[Punkingal]

40. It just gets old. Been here 14 years and I've had people like that invite me to leave.

[Bluerome]

73. I wouldn't want anyone to leave. I just got here and it would be boring if everyone left

It may sound strange, but I know exactly how Bernie supporters feel. When Hillary lost to Obama in 08 I did not want anyone talking to me about reconciliation. My frustration needed an outlet. When anyone tried to take that from me it made me angrier. Being pissed off is healthy and we all deserve it. Hopefully for our own health we don't stay pissed off. I tried not to, and in the end I did let it go. But that's because I don't think about 08 anymore, on purpose.

And if you never vote for Hillary, I wouldn't hold it against you or anyone. Who the hell am I to force people to think anything?

[bvf]

109. Gee, you're smart.

Who the hell am I to force people to think anything?

That's fucking rich! The question should be, who the hell are you to think that you could if you wanted to?

Nice Napoleon Complex there, Fresh.

Be sure to say "hi" to everyone at Damage Control & Pathetic Supplication.

[Bluerome]

113. Just being myself, and don't want to argue. Have a good day, sincerely

[bvf]

119. That's good,

because from the looks of it, you're a complete failure at both.

[Bluerome]

120. negativity hurts its own source the most. Have a good day, I mean that

[bvf]

122. Ooh. Check out Kwai Chang Caine here.

Riot you are.

[rhett o rick]

150. I doubt they are new here.

[Punkingal]

127. I would like Bernie to be President, but my health is fine.

I am aggravated at the level of discourse on this board. I support Bernie, not Hillary, and that doesn't make me a traitor, an idiot, or a bad Democrat. I simply like his ideas, and I know if we put our focus on them instead of war and corporate welfare, they could be achieved. I don't hate Hillary, but I have had enough of the Clintons and I want something that I think will be better. It's pretty simple really.

[Bluerome]

133. Totally get what you are saying, makes perfect sense.

Follow your conscience. We aren't all going to agree, but I think everyone should do what they feel is right.

[Punkingal]

152. Thank you.

[Bluerome]

179. Of course!

[Bluerome]

52. I'm new, but I try to avoid drama and look at data. Check the first thread I started

[Bluerome]

48. I'm not arguing with anyone am I?

[pkdu]

61. Ignore them , there's a lot of drain-circling lashing out going on....it will subside. One way or

Another

[Bluerome]

81. I've noticed a lot of drama. This is normal anywhere there is competition

[bbgrunt]

164. LOL!

[morningfog]

83. Welcome back!

[FlatBaroque]

187. Do you think "new" posters should have to reveal all their prior usernames?

[Tarc]

4. Sanders does not appeal to the majority of Democrats

He lost the New York A-A vote by 50 points, the Hispanic by 30.

If you are getting walloped to that degree, then there may be a defect in your progressive credentials.

[John Poet]

140. There's certainly a defect in the Democratic party's

"progressive credentials", when they are on the verge of nominating
a neoconservative whose foreign policy differs very little
from that of George W. Bush...


Is that what AAs support now? More neoconservative foreign policy debacles?

Because that IS in effect what they seem to be doing,
by voting for Hillary Clinton.

[boston bean]

5. Thanks for coming back to enlighten us all, when it's over! LOL

[Maru Kitteh]

56. Right?

[workinclasszero]

6. You just got back and got put on full ignore already!

Good job?

[Squinch]

7. Blablablaignorantblatherblablablablabla

[alittlelark]

10. Welcome to my 'ignore' list!!!

It is chock full of people that share your....uh.... views. You will like it there!!!

[Dem2]

21. Copy/paste

Passive aggressive much?

Can you please put me on ignore too, I want to see your trademark post one more time.

[Squinch]

33. Imagine my despair.

[boston bean]

44. It's put me in a bad emotional state just reading you've been ignored!

[Squinch]

57. No one puts Baby in the corner!!!!

[rbrnmw]

110. I know it's hurting me too

[1monster]

116. As Jar Jar Binks would say:

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. Welcome back, KCDem.

It isn't your father's Buick anymore, that's for sure.

[SFnomad]

9. What the hell has happened to this website? People like you

Your spew is all anti-Clinton and you have the nerve to say "The vitriol coming from the Hillary camp is vicious and very undemocratic" ... have you bothered to read any of the lies, smears and crap that is slung by the BS cheerleaders on a daily basis around here?

[pdsimdars]

15. He's obvoiusly the kind of person with a clear and objective mind

whereas you are one of the ones I send to the ignore wasteland. . . I'm sure you are a very nice person though. but buy bye

[SFnomad]

26. LOL, what a joke.

Looks like you're one of those sad kinds of people that need to live in an echo chamber of similar opinions and can't handle hearing anything from someone who doesn't think like you.

[Punkingal]

42. You just described yourself.

[SFnomad]

46. Bzzzzt, no I didn't .. but thanks for playing, we have wonderful parting gifts for you n/t

[Punkingal]

58. Parting gifts....been here since 2002. Unless Skinner invites me to leave I will be around.

I don't get where you people have the balls to suggest people will be leaving. It is not up to the likes of you.

[SFnomad]

66. You people sure do get your panties in a bunch over imaginary slights, don't you?

I wasn't suggesting that you leave DU at all (but I'm sure it wouldn't be much of a loss).

What I was doing was ending this line of conversation in this thread ... as you were wrong, period. And there wasn't really anything to continue the discuss on ... yes you are ... no I'm not ... yes you are ... no I'm not ... type conversations are really pointless.

[angrychair]

93. "You people"

Sure like that phrase a lot. Rolls right off your keyboard, "you people". Now what people do you think he means? Based on the rhetoric and tone on this site in regards to Sanders, could be anything. I have seen anti Semitic and neo-Nazi hate sites used one to many times but often it is insinuated but rarely said explicitly.

[Squinch]

39. You guys are really embracing your irrelevance, aren't you? Put me on ignore, too, please?

[SCantiGOP]

185. I agree, Squinch

What's wrong with this site are posts like the one that started this thread.

[politicaljunkie41910]

24. My sentiments exactly. The OP couldn't have spent any considerably amouint of time here in the past

3 months and conclude with a straight face that it was all the Hillary supporters fault. Every day the top ten posts on the GDP have some hateful statement directed towards Hillary posed in the form of supposedly being an honest question.

[KeepItReal]

136. I know KCDem as a DUer from the Bush years...and you are?

[SidDithers]

31. Nailed it...nt

Sid

[EndElectoral]

11. That Seether song ought be Mrs. Clinton's campaign song.

"Fake It" by Seether

Who's to know if your soul will fade at all
The one you sold to fool the world
You lost your self-esteem along the way
Yeah

[Chorus:]
Good god you're coming up with reasons
Good god you're dragging it out
Good god it's the changing of the seasons
I feel so raped
So follow me down
And just fake it if you're out of direction
Fake it if you don't belong here
Fake it if you feel like affection
Woah you're such a fucking hypocrite

And you should know that the lies won't hide your flaws
No sense in hiding all of yours
You gave up on your dreams along the way
Yeah

[Chorus]

Whoah
Whoah

I can fake with the best of anyone
I can fake with the best of em all
I can fake with the best of anyone
I can fake it all

Who's to know if your soul will fade at all
The one you sold to fool the world
You lost your self-esteem along the way
Yeah

[Chorus]

Fake it if you're out of direction
Fake it if you don't belong here
Fake it if you feel like infection
Woah you're such a fucking hypocrite

[pdsimdars]

12. I tell you my friend, when you find a nonsense hater, click on their name and ignore them

after a while, they're all gone and this is a WONDERFUL place with WONDERFUL people. Great humor and great articles they find and post. ENJOY!

[farleftlib]

13. The party bigshots have pushed the lesser of two evils

picks on us for so long and have gotten away with it, I can hardly blame them for
putting up a flawed, thoroughly disliked, distrusted candidate. One that is in fact
the subject of an FBI investigation. The same woman who was beaten by somebody
nobody had ever heard of 8 years ago. I can see them in their back rooms saying
"It'll fly, right?" They need to pass the TPP to satisfy the oligarchs so what were
they going to do but push her down our throats again and hope for the best.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Preach it. They expect us to be pinatas.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Argle bargle.

[Katashi_itto]

18. k&R!!! Down with the Vichy Dems

[Dem2]

25. So original

I haven't heard this since I fell off my dinosaur.


Godwin's law wins, you lose.

[merrily]

53. Misusing "Godwin's Law" is not original, either.

If originality were the standard for posting at DU, Skinner would not be able to pay the bills.

But one hopes that people at least know what they are talking about.

You don't seem to know what Godwin's law is or that Godwin's law was a fake thing made up to see how fast a meme would spread on the internet. As it became very famous, Godwin began giving more grandoise reasons for having conceived it.

Hint: Godwin's law is not that a poster loses (loses what, exactly?)if the poster makes a Nazi reference.

[GoneFishin]

103. Regardless of the truth about it's roots, I never bought into that statement. If some group or

government employs Nazi political or physical intimidation tactics then they should be called out for it in no uncertain terms. Making up some euphemism or synonym to avoid using the term Nazi is stupid.

I think that "rule" was probably invented by right wingers who think Nazi behavior is not so bad, but they don't want to own it because it will be less repulsive if they can reframe it.

[merrily]

106. Agree. The only group benefitted by avoiding all references to Nazis are people who are

comparable to Nazis.

Granted, no one should trivialize the Holocaust. However, there was Hitler and there were Brown Shirts before the Holocaust began and the Holocaust was not the only bad thing they did.

If it's a bogus comparison, it should be easy to blow up. But, thinking you blew it up by citing a fake "law" is nonsense.

[Peregrine Took]

19. Well said. Thanks. n/t

[geek tragedy]

20. More sanctimonious finger-wagging nt

[Blaukraut]

23. I've been here as long as you have

And yea, both camps are nasty. But Hillary is a Democrat, and that has never been in question until recently. Bernie only recently officially changed his affiliation to Democrat so we could, technically, question his credentials, too. As to voting: Democracy means that ALL people have a voice. Not just the young, not just whites, not just.... ALL people. Being a Democrat also means that we are inclusive and have (within reason) a large tent. We don't exclude. Bernie should stay in as long as he finds he can make a difference and get his message across. Should he end up winning the nomination, he will have earned it. Just as much as Hillary will have, if she wins it.

As to vitriol - judging by DU only, the Bernie camp is outnumbering the Hillary camp on here, and are by definition a hell of a lot louder and meaner than the minority. For the record: I prefer Bernie's message overall, but I'm quite ok with Hillary, too.

[redstateblues]

34. We need more posters that are as reasonable

As you. Good post

[Blaukraut]

54. Thanks. I wish I could say it's always been this way for me

but not so. In 04 I was in the Kerry camp and in '08 in the Obama camp. It's a lot easier to be objective and not be emotional if you have no dog in the hunt, so to speak.

[JudyM]

132. Democrat has never meant corporocrat. Till now.

[potone]

27. No, Hillary is a Democrat.

And that is the problem. The Democratic party has become Republican lite, with better positions on social issues, but no real intention of taking on the corporate powers that dominate the economy to the detriment of us and the rest of the world. I have seen the party move steadily to the right for decades now, with crumbs thrown to us to appease us. But after the financial crash of 2007/8, it is not good enough.

One of the problems with Hillary, I think, is that she and her husband have lost touch with most Americans and how we live in this country. I respected her as First Lady, and while I wasn't crazy about the form of her health care proposal, I do believe that she was sincere in wanting to achieve healthcare reform. What I think happened (but of course this is just a guess on my part) is that after they left the White House--after two terms of being vilified by Republicans to the point of madness--they simply decided to join the real powers that be in this country and did so through the Clinton Foundation. In other words, yes, I think that they allowed themselves to become corrupted. It is very sad. I used to like Hillary and I was disgusted by the misogyny she faced as First Lady.

[redstateblues]

41. Corrupted? Bernie could not come up with

A single instance of corruption after railing about it for the last year. More smears.

[grasswire]

65. He was just wrong then.

That doesn't mean corruption doesn't exist in the Clintons.

[masmdu]

112. The bankruptcy bill...Elizabeth Warren can explain it to you.

https://m.

[redstateblues]

159. Has she declared? You guys threw her under the bus. Bernie has gone on and on and on about

That for months.

[Carolina]

28. K&R!

Been here since 2001 and feel likewise... Remember the 1992 refrain against Bush-Quayle: "It's time for them to go!"

That now applies to the Clintons. It's time for a new generation of thought propelled by the next generation of leaders. Bernie is the thought and Millienials are the next generation of leaders inspired by him. Some of us Bernie Boomers are right there, too.

The Clintons only want power and further enrichment for themselves, and it's sad to see the DNC and Party support such grifters and aggressively abet such devolution.

[creeksneakers2]

80. Soon

The young folks now love Bernieism. If they don't change, and the next bracket of young folks love Bernieism too, there will be a majority for it.

Meanwhile, the Clintons are the best we have.

[KittyWampus]

108. Sanders is 74 years old and wasted decades in Congress doing nothing more than posturing.

So for you to say it's time for "a new generation of thought propelled by the next generation of leaders" and then support Sanders is just laughable.

You COULD have supported O'Malley. He was a Progressive, a Democrat and had actual proposals that were well thought out instead of the bogus nonsense Sanders tries to pass off as plausible (5% growth rate? LOLZ)

And if you really want to see a grifter take a look at Sanders campaign director Jeff Weaver.

[Carolina]

117. Oh spare me your tripe

O'Malley wasn't even liked in Maryland and we see how long his campaign lasted.

[TM99]

163. Posturing?

You mean when he 'postured' against DOMA and DADT?

Or may you mean when he 'postured' against the worst aspects of the 1994 Omnibus Crime bill?

No, you must mean when he 'postured' about the Iraq War?

Yes, that damned Sanders. He postured all those many times and was right.

And if we go back and look at Hillary Clinton, well she was dead wrong on DOMA, DADT, superpredators being brought to heel, and the Iraq War for her buddy GW Bush.

[Human101948]

176. Give credit where credit is due! Hillary named some Post Offices as well!

Those other things she apologized for--long after it could make any difference.

[RobertEarl]

29. Just 10% are H fans

But they sure are loud.

The other 90% here are not unlike the old days. We have had a good time following Bernie from the start when he was totally ignored to today. He has come so far, so fast, that we are all quite amazed. But we are perplexed that the establishment still holds sway over the process that has made H seem so large.

Same as it ever was. 90% are for Bernie for president. We are still working on that.

[Chasstev365]

30. Spot On!

They mock and belittle everything we say and will expect us to just turn up in Nov. Good luck with that approach!

[dchill]

35. As you can see, KCDem, there's s different kind of Democrat...

in charge now. A small, but vocal minority that doesn't care much for real liberal, true progressive Democratic values. They're all about personality, sense of entitlement and perceived victimhood.

The Democratic Party we once knew has been drained down the bathtub. The DLC are in charge now, and anything resembling a scruple is discouraged and ridiculed. Voter disenfranchisement is a real goal, and psychological projection is their karate.

They have shrunk the party to a hard, bitter walnut. Say hello to President Trump.

[redstateblues]

49. "All about Personality, sense of entitlement and perceived victim hood"?

Perfect description of the new breed of Democratic Socialists. Especially entitlement.

[dchill]

64. Again with the projection.

Only one candidate has a 60% disapproval rating and is under FBI investigation. THAT'S not projection. That's fact.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. Yet she is beating your guy by over 2,400,000 popular votes and 240 pledged delegates.

"That's a fact."

[dchill]

77. Voter disenfranchisement... It's not just for Republicans...

anymore!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

90. She beat him fair and square.

Your candidate isn't nearly as popular as his acolytes think he is. Glbtq Americans, Hispanics, African Americans. et cetera just aren't all that into him. His support is a mile deep and an inch wide.

You can't have a "revolution" when the most potentially progressive elements of a society aren't inclined to join it.

[Squinch]

101. Such childish bullshit. And as a former NY Independent, I am insulted by the Sanders camp's

portrayal of NY Independents as being ignorant and irresponsible people who don't bother to learn the election laws of our state.

[dchill]

135. Wonderful. I'm not talking about New York.

Thanks for your input.

[ismnotwasm]

36. Have a gif it's soothing

[bigwillq]

37. Websites change. It's just a website. No biggie.

I'm sure there's other sites you can join.
I feel it would be kind of boring if we all agreed.
I can't stand Hillary but don't have an issue with others supporting her.

[Cobalt Violet]

38. The Dnc only hopes to appease Ms. Clinton.

They really believe young folk will vote for her should she win the nomination. Lol.

[Squinch]

55. No. They really understand, from decades upon decades of evidence, that young folk don't really get

out to vote.

Did you not see what just happened? Did you notice how those huge rallies at colleges DIDN'T translate to votes?

You know who WILL vote for her? The same ones who did vote for her: the majority of women, people of color, elderly people, disabled people, and men of intelligence.

So jump on board or don't. It would be nice to have you, but we'll still win without you.

[Cobalt Violet]

91. I can't vote for a war monger.

I'm against that.

[Squinch]

96. Did you vote for Kerry?

[redstateblues]

157. You can vote with the gun manufacturers? Like Bernie

[pinebox]

178. That's a talking point while ignoring Hillary portrayed herself as Annie Oakley

Facts matter.

[jamese777]

79. Well, there's always Donald Trump

If young people don't want to vote for Hilary, Donald Trump just might be another option for them. White young people seem to prefer Bernie. Non-white young people appear to prefer Hillary.

[Onlooker]

43. Hillary supporters are gloating too much ...

...

But, don't present the vitriol is from only one side. Threads here have called Hillary a neocon, compared her to Nixon and Bush, complained about her smirk and her cackling, suggested she is racist and homophobic, argued that she has threatened our national security, blames her for ISIS getting stronger, called her a liar, a Wall Street shill, and so on. There are repercussions to those kinds of accusations. Until this election, Hillary was known correctly as a reliable mainstream liberal, supporting Obama's policies, voting with Sanders 93% of the time in the Senate, and doing a lot of good work on human rights over the years. Yes, she's done some bad things just as Bernie has, and yes she's a politician more than preacher like Bernie, but the attacks on her have been over the top. Now, some of her supporters are giving Bernie supporters some of their own medicine, the medicine they doled out after Bernie won a series of caucus states. I don't think most millennials are as anti-Hillary as the ones in DU are. I think that if Bernie endorses Hillary and Hillary runs a good campaign, most of the millennials will come around. Polls show that.

[Kittycat]

45. Welcome Back KCDem

We have a Bernie Sanders forum
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1280

Great people over there. Highly recommend.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

47. We lost this website. It was a great 15-year run.

[shanti]

148. If there's one thing

I have learned in my 60 years, is nothing lasts forever. This site is no different. 15 years is a long run.

[Arugula Latte]

50. Yeah. It's obvious she is a Neocon and just an awful, awful "Democratic" candidate.

How so-called "liberals" and "progressives" support her is beyond me. There must be a lot of denial, self-deception, and mental gymnastics going on.

[Maedhros]

114. I have a friend whose political philosophy matches almost exactly that of the Hillary Group here.

So much so that his answers to pretty much every issue could have been lifted verbatim from the daily establishment talking points, and he doesn't even know that DU exists.

We have many long (2 hr +) arguments about politics, in which he tends to sneer at my positions and tries to shame me into voting for Hillary. His political philosophy hinges on the following key elements, which I believe to be widespread among the Democratic rank-and-file:

1. Hatred of Republicans:

This is ultimately his justification for everything. When I bring up unsavory policy issues, such as the TPP (of which he knew nothing, by the way), his response is rote: "Well, I don't know about THAT, but the Republicans..." He has been trained well by the Third Way propagandists to look past any Democratic foibles (e.g. surveillance state, indefinite detention, assassinating enemies of the state without due process, TPP, etc., etc., etc.) and focus on whatever heinous Republican shenanigans are in the headlines that day.

2. Resignation:

I was trying to explain the importance of key civil rights from a Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs angle (e.g. without habeus corpus or the right of assembly, our other rights quickly erode). His response to my plea that we need to re-establish and defend our basic civil liberties was that we have already lost them, and we're working on other things now (!). According to his philosophy, a functioning democracy is a pipe dream that will never be realized. All we can hope to do is slow down the collapse into fascism.

3. Misplaced Optimism:

Basically, by holding our noses and voting for ever-more-corporate Democrats, we will somehow end up with progressive government. While displaying stark cynicism on the one hand (see "Resignation" above), he displays amazing naivete on the other. "Hillary will turn her back on Wall Street and give us wonderful progressive things, because it will be in her best interests to do so." She knows that liberals and progressives will vote for her no matter what her positions are - she destroyed Libya based on lies, for God's sake! Why would she bother to try and appease us, when all she needs to do is point at the Republicans and scare us, and we dutifully fall in line and behave as desired?

So, there you go: today's Democratic Party. Too afraid to dare to change things for the better, and convinced that it's not possible anyway, but somehow hoping that things will magically improve.

[Sparkly]

51. "Hillary is no Democrat."

[merrily]

59. Apologies to the Op, but I cannot reply to hidden posts. Jury results.

n Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:14 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Hillary is the best Democrat running
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1797230

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Is this really necessary?

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:27 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is unnecessarily rude. If they'd left off the 'too fucking bad' part I would have left it. But that was a bit much.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yes I think it is necessary.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Good for you!!!
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Close call, but nothing in the OP was the least bit nasty.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: More of a hosts issue - the disruptive meta is the OP
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[snooper2]

60. Speed upgrade I believe

[whatchamacallit]

62. Decades of rightward motion and neoliberal politics have deformed the party

That's what happened.

[grasswire]

63. the good thing is that demographics are shrinking Hillary's "base"

The old white women who support her have less and less power each year, by virtue of numbers. And she will NEVER EVER attract a good share of young people or independents.

[Maru Kitteh]

67. Hillary wins states that look like the Democratic Party

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-is-winning-the-states-that-look-like-the-democratic-party/


Your dripping contempt for white women is however, duly noted.

[grasswire]

84. well, I'm a white woman..

..who accepts the trends of demographics.

[KittyWampus]

111. Whatever your sex/race, you must not know what the word "demographics"

means.

Hillary's base and its 'demographics' are not just old white women.

[TM99]

165. So the Democratic is now southern and conservative?

No shit. I watched it become that way.

You think Latino's are all liberal?!

You think AA's are all liberal?!

Go look at the number of NC black Clinton supporters that not only allow but voted for the anti-LGBT bathroom bill.

[Lucinda]

70. Hillary IS the future. I suggest you acclimate to it.

[Bohemianwriter]

75. She's a rerun from the 90's...

a bad Soap opera with no end and goes on Daytime TV...

[grasswire]

87. LOL

psychodrama and enough ego to drag the rest of America along with her.

[Bohemianwriter]

131. At least it's a tad more entertaining...

than watching the hissyfits of the Kardashians and Paris Hilton...

In fact, a LOT more entertaining! In fact, I prefer to watch a republican debate than "Everybody Loves Raymond" and "King of Queens".

I am guaranteed laughter when following Trump. Cruz, Hillary, the sideshow called MSM..
And then you have the surrogates and comment fields, stuffed with couch warriors who are so emotionally attached to their candidate that they they revolve their reality around their candidates' alternative reality.

[grasswire]

142. last night's GRAND ENTRANCE of Trump was a spectacle, yes.

And I have to say that the most amusing comments by Hillary supporters revolve around her "elegance" and her "pumps". Comedy gold.

This election would be the greatest show on earth if it did not present a possibility of dire global calamity for the next generation coming up.

I like your attitude.

[grasswire]

85. future of what??

Alienating young people right and left is not the way to embrace any future.

[Martin Eden]

168. People who are young now will shape the future

Hillary Clinton is, hopefully, the last standard bearer of the neoliberal corporate Dem party.

[katmondoo]

72. Hillary is fne with me

[Corporate666]

74. So...

Your suggestion is that the DNC should ignore the will of the voters and just hand Bernie the nomination by edict, under threat of "losing a generation of voters"? Because, what, all those voters are just going to start voting republican? Or not voting?

I'll make a prediction. There will be no lost generation. The idea that young white guys are going to stamp their feet and vote republican or not vote at all is silly. They will pout about it for a while. Some of them might even abstain from voting for Clinton. And a couple of years from now when the midterms come up, nobody will give a shit that pouting didn't get their demands met. They will vote for candidates they like, or not. Nothing will change.

It's just like all the people who vowed to leave the country if Obama got elected. And the people vowing the same if Trump gets elected. All talk. All whining. Nothing to take seriously.

[Avalon Sparks]

76. You're right

I joined same time you did, left when Bush left the Whitehouse. Came back a couple months ago and feel the same way as you.

DUers supporting Repug talking points, up is down. Still surprising to me and disappointing.

[TrueDemVA]

78. Corporate Dems

Corporate Dems have been running things behind the scenes for years. This primary has exposed them.

Before people start flipping out, I am sorta kidding. I just think thee are 2 factions of democrats. There are democrats who feel the party should be pushing an agenda similiar to FDR and others who feel we need to accept trickle down economics as a way to prosper.

Wait a second...

[DemocracyDirect]

95. THIS

I think you just called out the Reagan Democrats.

[RiverLover]

180. [phone]!

I'm a Proud FDR Dem. Trickle Down is BS & Reagan Democrats really need to be authentic & just go be the repubs they are. They need to claim it & get over to the right instead of infiltrating our party.

[TrueDemVA]

184. Amen to that

[kgnu_fan]

82. I was a lurker but I have been following DU from the very beginning and this place has changed since

those years of inspiration and insight. Many great posters had left this site. It is shocking to come back after many years and read some of those posts now --- as if Republicans had taken over ----

[Hydra]

126. Pretty much, ya

A surprise to most of us who thought we were on the same team.

[OhZone]

86. Too bad she already won ages ago.

Oh well.

predictwise.

[eastwestdem]

92. Hopefully you'll see humor in this...but I recently returned to DU as well,

but started all over with a new username (old one was too affiliated with a candidate I no longer like).

I see this site exactly opposite as you. I can't believe the anger and baseless accusations coming from the Bernie folks. In February, I started by just reading, and clearly at that time the majority was very pro-Sanders. In the last two months they have become increasingly hostile and I saw so many pro-Hillary posts being hidden. I was actually for Bernie when I came here (I still like his objectives), but still noticed that the Bernie people were running this place. Then, about 3 weeks ago, all hell broke loose when the Hillary people seemed to rise up en masse and not only defend themselves, but throw similarly baseless accusation back at Bernie.

From my vantage point, about 80% of what is said is not based in truth, or massively exaggerated, on both sides. But the attacks on Hillary seem to be more personally based, while those at Bernie are based on his lack of articulation of his plans, etc.

All I can say is thank god that all of the people I know in the real world can be reasoned with. If folks in our country behaved like those on DU, we would have violence in the streets

[northernsouthern]

94. Agreed.

I used to be happy just reading, but all of the race baiting was too much to take so I had to sign in here to say something.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

99. Look harder

I used to be happy just reading, but all of the race baiting was too much to take so I had to sign in here to say something."

Look harder:

Without Women and Minority Support, Hillary Would Be Losing Badly To Bernie.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1786350

[northernsouthern]

107. Ok? I just did...

And it seems you just tried and pull some race argument on me? Why did you link this? Who the feck ever said we did not need such a group?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

115. First of all if you think you could ever shut me up with a false accusation of race bating...

And it seems you just tried and pull some race argument on me? Why did you link this? Who the feck ever said we did not need such a group?

-northernsouthern

First of all if you think you could ever cow me into silence with a false accusation of race bating you better "feck"en pinch yourself because you surely must be dreaming.

You, my friend, are the one who accused posters of racebaiting, ergo:

I used to be happy just reading, but all of the race baiting was too much to take so I had to sign in here to say something."

-northernsouthern

I merely had the temerity to shine a light on the race baiting of your compatriots:

Without Women and Minority Support, Hillary Would Be Losing Badly To Bernie.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1786350

Oh, here's another one of your compatriots accusing African Americans of having Stockholm Syndrome for supporting Secretary Clinton:

This message was self-deleted by its author (WillyT) on Wed Feb 3, 2016, 12:38 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251687330

[northernsouthern]

138. I sure hope not!

I was directly asking you why you posted that so I don't want you to shut up, I want your narrative. Also the link you sent me was deleted.

Oh, here's another one of your compatriots accusing African Americans of having Stockholm Syndrome for supporting Secretary Clinton:

As for that, it could be poor wording since it has a bit of the, "you don't know what is best for you tone", but I can't see the post.

Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon first described in 1973 in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors.

Since supporters feel that Hillary and the third-way has taken over the party, we would all be hostages,the poster should have said all Democrats (and not singled out a group) that supporter her do, heck she has an enemy's list. But I can't see the post at all. Do you have it?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

139. You said you joined the site to shine a light on race baiting.

I merely pointed out that the race baiting comes from all directions.

As for that, it could be poor wording since it has a bit of the, "you don't know what is best for you tone", but I can't see the post

That is what the now banned poster suggested... That can be inferred from reading the six hundred plus posts responding to his thread. Odd, he deleted the post weeks and several hundred posts after he originally posted it.

[northernsouthern]

145. I did look at them.

No one seemed to use the excerpt button, that is what it is for, to prevent people removing or changing what they said. I use it all the time because of that. The post seemed to do something with lgbt? Several people were saying they were lgbt, but then saying they hated Hillary for other reasons. For me to make a judgement with out seeing it would be the very definition of prejudice. Help me out.

P.S. were you ok with the Hillary starting the Muslim and the Kenyan think about Obama? I can not see how any person of color could be ok with her almost costing the first black president the office, if she pulled that on an atheist president I would never forgive her.

[Barack_America]

97. I can give you a kick, and a rec, but not an answer.

I don't know what the hell the Democratic Party is doing anymore.

[oldandhappy]

98. I am 76 and I agree with you! Have been calling her a repub.

[SheenaR]

102. It was already stated upthread

But Hillary is a Democrat. The problem is (and has been defined by any measurable metric) that the Republican Party is way far to the right and the Democratic Party is to the right of center. In its purest form, Sanders is more moderate than crazy leftist as he is portrayed.

The Party went right. She represents that Party. Not everyone has recognized the shift. In any other country, Hillary Clintom would be regarded as a member of whatever the Conservative Party is. Our system is so skewed and its out of control.

There should be three parties. The Far Right, The Democrats and the Left

[Raster]

104. Welcome back, KCDem! Good to have you back again.

And yes, this site has changed. While never advocated as a *progressive* website, it had it's finer moments. Lately it seems to be Blue Dog Above Ground or DINO Underground. I believe the majority of active members ARE NOT CLINTON SUPPORTERS, but tolerated - at least for the time being.

[MFM008]

118. strange rant.

I have never seen such vitriolic rhetoric except from Sanders supporters and republicans. Never. Not even in 08. Never. I been here since 2010 at least. Bullying, threats, obscenities. Getting thrown out of caucus meetings for disruption.
There comes a time reasonable people lay down their swords or be hoisted on your own petards.

[randome]

121. An objective mind might consider that millions more people are voting for Clinton than Sanders.

Maybe there's something to that? Or maybe {shudder} you could be wrong about her?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[postatomic]

123. Well, they finally put a Cappuccino Machine in the Lounge

And for us plus 60 crowd they now have an Efferdent and a Depends dispenser.

The Bathrooms were completely remodeled. I especially like the Urinal Cakes in the Men's Room. Nice touch!!!!

Oh, and check this out!!! Every Thursday Night is Bingo Night. I won $8.34 last week!!!!

Just want to thank you for taking the time from your busy schedule to post what I've already read...... oh, I don't know..... a few hundred times already.

[IamMab]

125. Welcome back.

And goodbye forever.

[Doctor_J]

129. It's become Hillary Underground. Liberals are despised, war and torture are celebrated

A strange journey indeed.

[grasswire]

144. and corruption reigns supreme!

I think Orwell was an optimist.

[NurseJackie]

134. #IsItAgeist?

[Marrah_G]

141. We need a democratic socialist nationwide party

[grasswire]

143. THIS

Would that NY party called the Working Peoples Party be such a thing? I am not informed on it, really

[GitRDun]

146. You're half right.

I stopped posting and rarely come on anymore to even look. Why?

The Sanders piranha crew. No rational discussion allowed. Gang up on anyone who questions the tiniest aspect of their guy.

Yeah they're probably getting it back now....but they are experiencing exactly what they dished out.

While they may be better than Republicans, neither of these 2 candidates is ideal. Too bad the zealots drive the discussion. Not much to learn from them...

[vintx]

147. Right?

I originally joined in 2003, and I'm with you. This place is completely different from what it once was.

Black box voting used to be a concern, now it's apparently just trusted.

Disenfranchisement was a big deal. Torture was a big deal. Regime change was a big deal. Labor-exploiting agreements like the TPP were a big deal. Stuff like fracking and clean coal? Never would have flown.

There might have been a small minority of people who were ok with these things, but the vast majority of the site was progressive.

No more. Not even close.

[amborin]

153. well said! thanks for posting!

[jack_krass]

154. how *DARE* you interrupt Queen Hillary's coronation, go back whence from where you came yungin!!!!!

[Kalidurga]

155. Well I can't even begin to say I didn't sign up til after 2010 or so...

And I have had long stretches of not posting as well. Soooooooooo, best I can tell is some people are just more comfortable with their conservative side than others. Some people are more comfortable thinking they are special snowflakes that got everything they have from hard work and others are just lazy. Some people just like thinking they are smarter and better so they should be able to shout down the majority and not even make the smallest effort to understand where they are coming from.

Me, I am done with those kinds of people. I don't need that kind of negativity. I have seen chit said her that would get you thrown out of a college class if you tried to talk like that to a peer or a professor for that matter. So much disrespect it's almost heartbreaking. And it would be if I didn't realize that it's more about the kind of person they are than the kind of people we are.

[Califonz]

158. The usual pre-election Dem civil war...

Democrats will unite again against the common Repug enemy if we don't nominate Bernie and the Repugs win in November as a result.

[djean111]

182. I don't think so, this time.

"Democrat" does not mean what it used to mean.

[silvershadow]

166. It has DLC owners. nt

[eridani]

167. I think that Millenials will wind up voting for Clinton. What Clinton will cost the Dems

--is another generation of active party members. Thinking of a 26 year old Sanders supporter who never voted until last year. She was a few weeks too young in 2008, and never voted again until 2015. I talked her into reading up on the Seattle City Council candidates and voting last year, and also into voting for whoever the Dem nominee is. But that's ALL she'll do.

[djean111]

183. I don't know any who will.

Seriously. They are adamant. She does not mean them well. They know that.

[Progressive dog]

169. Most of us Democrats know Hillary is one of us

we also know Bernie was not one until his twilight years. If I were cynical, I might think that Bernie chose to join the Democratic party in order to run for President, not because he finally realized that socialism was not the wave of the future.

[leeroysphitz]

170. Many Clintonites are completely disinterested in policy or governance.

Clinton supporterds remind me of Apple fanboys.

[B Calm]

172. K&R Spot On!

[baldguy]

175. It got invaded & taken over by people who aren't real Democrats, don't like the Democratic Party

And think Democratic candidates and officeholders are little better than their Republican counterparts.

People like you, apparently.

[Joob]

177. Joined recently, I always thought Democrats as Truth Seekers.

But I am sadly disappointed

[disillusioned73]

186. K&R

Welcome back.. I'd say welcome home.. but, well - you know the rest..

[Gregorian]

188. No female George Bush for me.

I will never vote for her. Period. Go fuck yourselves.

[CorkySt.Clair]

189. Maybe you should have waited anouther 13 years to post