For those who don't yet get it, r.e. Bernie Supporters.

[rateyes]

There is a movement, a political revolution that has been started with Bernie's candidacy. A Progressive Tea Party, if you will is being born. And, those of us in this new movement are hell bent, like the Tea Party Republicans are doing in the Republican Party, on taking control of the Democratic Party.

Bernie becoming President would help the movement along, but should he not win, it will not spell the end of the revolution. We will be recruiting folk like Tim Canova in FL to primary and take down the Democratic establishment and replace the leadership with people who will do the bidding of the PEOPLE.

Look at the young people. They are sick of the status quo and they will change things. We are coming after the Wasserman-Schulzes and the Harry Reids and the Rahm Emmanuels of the party and we will keep coming until they are voted out.

It may take several years, but we will win. The establishment's days in both parties are numbered. To quote MLK, Jr. "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

The people are PISSED.

[CrowCityDem]

1. And like the Tea Party, adherence to 'purity' will doom it from the start.

[rateyes]

4. The tea party is pretty damn strong.

[Codeine]

11. And it has a net negative impact on their party.

As would a Democratic equivalent.

Luckily the screwball antics of the reddit set will have very little impact in meatspace.

[Armstead]

33. Equating the role with the actual goals is deflection

Comparing a desire for Universal Health Care to a desire to Eliminate All Regulations on Pirate Healthcare is just bullshit.

Comparing a Movement that says Palestinians Are People Too with a movement that wants to Ban All Muslims is crap.

I hope you are smarter than to actually believe they are the same.

[Baobab]

132. Bernie Sanders actually is MAINSTREAM and its the Clinton folks who are

trying literally to remake the world and redistribute wealth.

You can read about it on page 287 in here, and indeed it would be a huge redistribution of wealth AWAY from the US middle class and poor and to corporations and to the workers in developing countries who will be brought in to address our huge labor shortages.

BUT DONT BLAME THEM, THEY ARE ACTUALLY TRYING TO HELP, and they have been conned just like we have by the same smooth talking crooks, in the same way, BLAME THE US POLITICIANS WHO ARE SETTING THIS "Mode Four" SCHEME UP.

[artislife]

54. The impact will only be negative if

you have been loving the sprint to the right.

If you liked the platforms of yesteryear, it will be seen as a hard correction.

[Maru Kitteh]

63. OMFG Codeine

"Luckily the screwball antics of the reddit set will have very little impact in meatspace."

THANK YOU.

[Cal33]

95. Bernie and Elizabeth are the leaders of this movement. They are for honesty and integrity in

Government, a Government that is for the entire American people, not just for the
few super-rich. Bernie and Elizabeth stand for reform -- removing the bribery and
corruption of the Corporate Power people -- and replacing them with people of
MORAL principles.

They are the exact opposites of the Tea-Party. The Koch brothers, I understand,
are doing a good deal of the financing of the Tea Party. They are known for their
bribery and corruption.

[katsy]

97. There's no comparison

tea party is about hate, racism, misogyny & bigotry.

There is no, and never will be, a Democratic Party equivalent.

The only way you can put the 2 wildly opposed ideologies together in the same sentence is to hope the progressive left can pack congress with representatives as quickly as the tea party accomplished.

Anyone trying to equate those 2 ideologies in any substantive way beyond that is an idiot.

[Bohemianwriter]

153. Claiming that progressives...

will do harm to the party, is a bit backwards, isn't it?

If anything it's the Establishment who have wrecked the party. Blaming voters for the downfall of a party is a bit of a long shot, isn't it?

[pangaia]

51. The Tea party is evil, pure evil.

To compare the actions of the two polar opposite movements is beyond the pale..or, perhaps more appropriately, beyond the pail.

[Baobab]

129. Psst: the so called "tea party" was fake from the beginning, a creation of a paid PR sock puppet

firm.

I thought that was an open secret. :|

the US is now internationally famous for its politics being ruled by deep pocketed fake this and that.

Hang out with people from outside the US and you will learn that.

[KPN]

10. That's okay with the Tea Party isn't it?

They've taken it over. They've got what they want.

[Mnpaul]

21. The tea party that took control of both the House and Senate?

I don't get your point

[CrowCityDem]

22. The Tea Party 'controls' nothing. They're loud, but a minority, even of R's.

[leeroysphitz]

28. Try again. The Tea Party only shaped and drove republican politics for the last seven years. lol

The government shut downs and fiscal cliff type bullshit are all examples of the Tea party having a PROFOUND effect on republican strategy and policy. Boner RESIGNED because he wasn't conservative enough for them.
No offense but you are REALLY wrong about that statement.

[CrowCityDem]

34. All they've done is obstruct. They've yet to DO anything, because they lack the votes.

[Scuba]

138. I wish our side had obstructed Bush's war, the banker bailouts, tax cuts for the wealthiest ...

... and a host of other things he managed to push across with help from so-called Democrats.

[Armstead]

36. The Tea Party has directly and indirectly determined the GOP's two most likely Pres candidates

[BlueCaliDem]

128. Yep. And that benefits the Democratic Party. Do we need to have the same on our side in order to

benefit the Republican Party? Don't think so.

[leeroysphitz]

23. Or not. I mean if avoiding purity tests means cowtowing to the politicians who helped

caused the problems then we're all doomed, aren't we?

[PatrickforO]

56. So, just out of curiosity, why do you say this?

Basically what we're trying to do is hold the people we vote into office more closely accountable for doing stuff that benefits the people.

Now, my personal issues are single payer health care, stronger social security with the payroll tax cap lifted and removing the tax loophole that allows big corporations like GE to skate without paying ANY US income tax on billions in profits. In fact, I want billionaires and multi-national corporations to pay their fair share of taxes so we have the money for programs that actually help Americans - like ECE, school lunches, infrastructure improvements, etc.

In fact, I think Bernie has a pretty darned good platform.

Yet here you are, shooting it down...why? Don't you want these things? Really?

Sure, I know we're in the middle of a hot primary where your candidate is basically saying none of this is practical, but that aside, don't you really want these things?

Because you know what? I'm gonna be working in my own state to challenge our empty-suit Third Way Dem US Senator in the next primary. We couldn't swing it during this cycle, but next time? You bet.

I'm tired of the status quo Crow. I want MY tax dollars to be used for programs that benefit ME and my family and address our kitchen table issues instead of what we're spending our tax money on now - forever war, massive domestic spying, a lost war on drugs, private prisons.

I mean c'mon! How can you be against this? Or if not against, how can you just so glibly shoot it down? Why is it impossible? Why are we unrealistic unicorns? You know, that's what the greed heads said about the 8 hour work day, too, but our guys bled in the streets, gunned down by Pinkertons, and made that happen. Workers comp. Social Security. Medicare. All these unicorn, pie in the sky things, and people love them.

Why is that, do you wonder?

[CrowCityDem]

58. I'm against the idea of 'purity'. I'm against thinking there's only one solution.

Supporting your preferred policies is great. Go ahead.

But there's something uncouth about tearing down anyone who isn't as far left as you, branding them sell-outs, and basically saying they aren't even worth having in the party. If we're going to be a large party, with a big tent, that means we're going to have disagreements. The issue is that the Tea Party is so fanatical that it's impossible to have actual discussions about how to move forward (or backward, in their case). I would hate to see that happen to our side, of which there are some similar strains in the thinking of Bernie's most fervent supporters.

[PatrickforO]

62. Well, let's think root cause for a moment.

To my mind, the root cause of our maladies is too much corporate money in politics and not enough citizen involvement. Reverse Citizens United and other like rulings, and dramatically reform campaign finance laws, and we are in position to solve about 90% of the problem. We won't though, unless all of us begin showing up and arguing our positions. Sure, I won't get everything I want. I know that. But if 'me' becomes 'us' and 'we' are now holding our electeds' feet to the fire, then my point is we'll be a lot better off.

As to the big tent point you make, my issue with it is that the Democratic party used to represent the people, but somehow around the early 90s, it began representing the so-called 'creative class,' a socially liberal and affluent group. So I see much of the policy of the Democratic party now as having betrayed me, my family and our kitchen table issues to Wall Street, the MIC and other global corporations.

Honestly, Crow, I don't think a person can embrace the neoliberal philosophy (deregulate, privatize and gut the New Deal programs - basically Naomi Klein's 'shock doctrine' capitalism), and be a Democrat. That's why there's a big fight brewing between the new dealers like me and the Third Way people. It really is a battle for the soul of a once-populist party.

[bvar22]

90. You do understand the paradox of attacking someone because oftheir "purity".

I see plenty of "purity" of commitment to whatever Hillary says or does,
even when she contradicts herself, the Hillary "Purists" still cling to her.

The paradox is that as soon as you attack someone else as a "Purist", you become one yourself.

[That Guy 888]

59. I thought (like another party I know) they were co-opted by oligarchs

[alan2102]

61. "Purity", my ass!

This argument is so fetid and worthless.

"Purity" has come to mean anything slightly to the left of overt fascism, warmongering, plutocrat-ass-licking, total-corporate-sellout-itude, etc. "Purity" my f*cking ass.

Here's some "purity" -- aka character and integrity -- for you:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511809324

[CrowCityDem]

64. Here's what I mean:

Bernie proposes a college plan, giving free tuition to everyone.

I say, "gee, I don't think the mechanics of that plan are solid".

I get criticized for being against free college, and being for loading people with massive debt. There is an attitude out there that not only is Bernie always right about the issues (he's not), but his particular plans to deal with them are always right too. You can't so much as criticize the fact that relying on Republican states to contribute is a lousy plan, without being accused of selling out, not being progressive, and so on and so forth.

That's what purity is, and that's what won't work.

[stopbush]

75. Bingo! Identifying the problem is one thing.

Offering a workable solution is another.

That's exactly what Sanders hasn't done: offer a workable solution to fund his plans. Pretending that he has is, well, Tea Party thinking.

[PyaarRevolution]

98. Don't tell me you think Debt-Free is good enough because it's not.

There was a study that came out saying a Bachelor's isn't good enough in most careers and Bernie's plan is a start.

I've seen some of Hillary's debt free plan and I remember seeing one part requiring a parent to co-sign a loan. It's just not good enough, especially requiring a job. I want those kids to have more than enough time they can just study, sleep, play a little/exercize, period. Any crack whereby someone going to college can expose them to wage slavery is dangerous for the fact of the innovative products they might create that end up all going under a GE patent or some such because they take a job there or somewhere else to pay off their debt.
With Medicare for all it's about helping business thrive once again as well. There are some television shows that I'm sure are no longer shot here because they don't want to pay the Healthcare cost for the cast and crew on set. Toyota decided NOT to manufacture in the South because they didn't want to have to pay Health Insurance.

If you want to add suggestions to make tuition free feasible I'm all for it. P.S. Medicare for all and tuition free are a package deal, namely because I've heard one of the big factors that increases tuition cost is paying for Uni employee's Health Insurance.

[Funtatlaguy]

80. Don't think it needs to be THAT pure.

But, it does need to have and stick to some basic principles and goals.
Such as:
Getting money out of politics. Citizens United should be a litmus test for SCOTUS.
And, the goal should be moving to public funding of elections.
Shortening campaigns. Making everyone eligible to vote at 18.
Pay equit for women.
No restrictions on abortion. Funding Planned Parenthood.
Gay adoption and workplace protection.
Carbon tax and other climate change action.
Rebuilding our infrastructure including inner cities.
Ending institutional racism including private prisons.
Real immigration reform with path to citizenship.
Lower college tuition costs and interest rates.
A non interventionist foreign policy.
Fair trade agreements.
No more right to work states.
Strengthening social security.
Moving toward single payer health care.
Improving the Veterans Administration.

[AgingAmerican]

104. Clinton supporters have been calling for Democratic purity for a year now

So your cry falls on deaf ears

[frylock]

119. Purity, as in who is a Real Democrat?

[eridani]

136. Right. The Tea Party was so doomed that they knocked off Eric Cantor n/t

[Fred Drum]

137. fuck purity

vote hillary

any other questions?

[snooper2]

2. I thought it was started by Occupy or something...

[Buzz Clik]

3. "A Progressive Tea Party" Oh, hell yeah! We get that part.

[Armstead]

37. A poor analogy...But there is also truth in terms of a rebellion against the status quo

[Codeine]

5. You realize the Tea Party has destroyed the Republican

Party, yes? Ideological purity quests and spittle-flecked rage are poor building blocks for electoral success.

[JoePhilly]

12. + 1

[nemo137]

13. I don't know, given that they've gotten a lock on congress and most statehouses for the foreesable

It seems to have worked out pretty well for them.

[Codeine]

16. That's not the teafucks

that's been forty years of very savvy local work and clever redistricting.

[nemo137]

18. That's a fair point, but also seems to me to contradict the R's being "destroyed" by said teafucks.

Although, if the Sanders revolution turns in to 40 years of savvy local work, that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

[KPN]

19. A slow incremental slide into impoverishment for the masses is

a building block for electoral success then? That's what the Democratic Party has enabled when it hasn't outright contributed to it over the past 35-40 years.

Millennials don't want to wait 40 years to incrementally recover -- I don't blame them. They'll be well into their 60s and 70s by then. Bernie's ideas are notr radical in their view -- or mine. There's no reason to settle for less. So they won't ... and they've convinced me I shouldn't either. It's Bernie or bust because real change won't happen without that approach.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

35. Last time I checked the GOP is CRUSHING the Dems in state legislatures and governorships.

More so since the Tea Party phenomenon began.

[Fla Dem]

100. Yes, and where has the "Revolution" been in local and state wide elections?

Why haven't all these revolutionaries run for city council, mayor, state legislatures, governor seats? Change starts from the ground up, not top down. You have to build a strong foundation. I will be thrilled if the Bernie Revolution inspires all his multitudes to get off their computers and phones and run for office. But I doubt that will happen, because that requires time and effort.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

112. I have a close friend running for Congress in Kansas.

He's a Berniecrat. There are several websites where Berniecrats are listed.

[Rebkeh]

38. This is not a zero-sum game to "win"

It's an ideological tug of war. There's no "winner take all." The Tea Party won because they pulled the Democrats further right.

Bernie is the answer here, he's the only lefty running.

[Surya Gayatri]

76. And, you nail it again, Codeine.

[KPN]

6. Yup. They don't get it.

Ironically, instead, they blame millennials for the demise of the Party. The movement will either take over the Democratic Party or break it and create a new party.

[rateyes]

9. Exactly.

[RKP5637]

42. Yep! Given its current trend, the D party will eventually totally fracture like the R party.

Millions are fed up with the D's and R's, but the DNC/DWS does not want to capture this momentum and instead chooses to blame others.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

60. It's a race between state legislative irrelevancy and progressive abandonment. n/t

[RKP5637]

91. It really is, like a race to the bottom. There was a time when we worked together in the US to try

to make is a better country, many are unwilling today and damn right uncooperative.

[HassleCat]

7. Third way will run its course.

Even if we have to be relegated to minority party status for another four years. I think Clinton will be the next president. When she fails to deliver on any progressive issues, the tide will really turn. She will sell fighter planes to Israel and call it a progressive accomplishment, stuff like that.

[LexVegas]

8. A "progressive tea party" with similar demographics as the tea party will fail and is failing. nt

[alan2102]

67. "similar demographics"?!

What the hell are you talking about?

1 White, male, christian, gun-owning/loving, traditionalist rural-ish Republicans,

2 Rainbow/multi-cultural, omni-sexual, urban-ish Democrats.

Yes, very "similar".

[aikoaiko]

14. The anti-war, anti-corruption movement was just forming in 2008 and embraced Obama over HRC

[jcgoldie]

15. And exactly what

Has the rigid insistence on ideological purity by the republican tea party accomplished for America? Refusing to compromise in order to advance real and pragmatic goals for the good of people is not something to aspire to regardless of which side you are on. I believe strongly in very liberal ideas and most here do as well, but the fact remains at least 30-40% of the United States does not and this is a democracy. "Political revolution" sounds nice but it doesn't accomplish much in the real world where compromise is necessary in order to avoid complete stagnation as we have experienced the past few years because one side has refused to compromise on their religiously held ideals.

[Firebrand Gary]

17. I heard that same argument in 2008.

But then 2010 rolled around and those who made that argument stayed home.

[Armstead]

41. So did many other Democrat voters

To blame progressives (sanders supporters) for that -- without giving equal blame to "moderates" who also stayed home -- is a dishonest meme.

[SunSeeker]

105. It's "Democratic voters." Please don't use the Rush Limbaugh terminology. nt

[Armstead]

106. I used that term deliberately, because so many here sound like Rush these days

P.S. Did you know that the "New Democrats" also use the term Democrat when referring to Democratic?

[SunSeeker]

109. Your disagreement with some Dems is no reason to perpetuate that ugly terminology. nt

[Admiral Loinpresser]

116. Ugly terminology-- you mean like "Bernie Bros?" n/t

[SunSeeker]

130. Someone calling you a name you dislike does not justify resorting to Limbaugh terminology. nt

[Admiral Loinpresser]

131. Many experience the language of either tribe as "nasty."

I finally tired of it and started using "full ignore" with extreme prejudice. I never utilized that feature between 2002 and 2016, despite nastier cycles than this one in 2004 and 2008. But I care more about Bernie than any other politician in my lifetime (I'm 61), so I am more emotional about this cycle than any other. So now I use the ignore button to eliminate offensive language and attitudes. Also I have quit consuming Corporate Media. My mental health is vastly improved.

[SunSeeker]

133. "Democrat voters" isn't just "language" of another "tribe." It is a Right Wing put down.

It is shameful that you use Limbaugh's epithets.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

134. Agreed. It is RW.

Tis the season for insults.

[SunSeeker]

143. There is never a season when it is OK to insult the entire Democratic Party on DU. nt

[Admiral Loinpresser]

144. Many believe the Party has insulted them. n/t

[SunSeeker]

145. I see. So you admit you were insulting the Democratic Party using RW terminology. nt

[Admiral Loinpresser]

148. I don't believe I used the term "Democrat voters?" n/t

[SunSeeker]

149. Yes, you did.

So did many other Democrat voters

To blame progressives (sanders supporters) for that -- without giving equal blame to "moderates" who also stayed home -- is a dishonest meme.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1809189


And you just spent this whole subthread defending your use of it.

[still_one]

151. crickets chirping

[Admiral Loinpresser]

155. Now we should get reality-based crickets. n/t

[SunSeeker]

165. Disavow the words yet spends a subthread defending their use. nt

[Admiral Loinpresser]

152. Wow, we can't even agree on reality. I did not find any post where I used that term. n/t

[still_one]

150. Really, you aren't aware what you posted:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1809189

[Admiral Loinpresser]

154. Sweet Jesus, that's not me! What are you doing?? n/t

[still_one]

157. No it wasn't you. Sorry, I meant this link for what it was worth

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1809189

Regardless, I screwed up. I won't remove my post, so your post remains valid

I should actually look at the reply to, rather than the lines of thread because they do not always line up, when they get too embedded.

Anyway, thanks for correcting me, and I apologize.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

160. No problemo. I've done similar things. Thanks for having the moxie to be honest. n/t

[still_one]

162. Thanks

[Admiral Loinpresser]

163. +1 n/t

[SunSeeker]

164. Then why were you defending it? nt

Last edited Sat Apr 23, 2016, 07:14 PM - Edit history (1)

[NastyRiffraff]

170. Oh well that's all right then!

Anyone can say whatever they want, use RW insults and link to RW sites, and even ape RW terminology (although I think that poster just slipped and revealed himself. He seems to have crawled away)

[Armstead]

166. You ever hear of the New Democrat Coalition?

That's what a coalition of Democratic centrists call themselves...Not the new Democratic Coalition

http://newdemocratcoalition-kind.house.gov/

[SunSeeker]

169. You used the term "Democrat voters" to refer to Democratic voters.

You were not referring to the New Democrat Coalition. The Democrat in New Democrat Coalition is a noun.

You used Democrat as an adjective, like right wingers do.

[Cary]

146. Right.

This explains a lot. Pfeh.

[Armstead]

167. This....Pfeh

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1819562

[George II]

161. Hmmmm, thank you for that McCarthyism (JOSEPH, not Eugene!) - "Democrat voters". Ooops.

[Armstead]

168. This

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1819562

[Orsino]

20. A Tea Party is a brainless, astroturfed thing promoting fake issues to the detriment of all.

I'll thank you not to attempt to conflate it with any brand of progressivism.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

27. +1

[RKP5637]

45. Yep, the comparison to the Tea Party by the OP was not a good one IMO. n/t

[jwirr]

114. The comparison is only regarding the way they took over the

R party. There is no other comparison.

[RKP5637]

118. Good point!!! n/t

[demwing]

50. you know, it IS possible to compare aspects of two things

without conflating the two, and without strengthening the lesser, or diminishing the greater.

Bernie and Trump are a good example. Both are appealing to voters that are dissatisfied with the status quo, neither are dependent on donations from corporate backers. Both are outsiders in their own way, and neither wants to see Hillary win.

Still, despite the comparisons, Trump is an asshole, and Bernie is not an asshole (there is no antonym for "asshole" - go figure...).

Again, you can compare things without conflating them.

[Orsino]

55. Very much so.

Last edited Fri Apr 22, 2016, 12:22 PM - Edit history (1)

Comparisons could be instructive. The Sanders campaign, hoever, has as little to do with Tea Party as I said.

[Maru Kitteh]

71. Reading the comments above, the Tea Party just got a ride ON the bus. It's being praised roundly

as a model to emulate.

[Surya Gayatri]

82. Brings to mind that old saw about "politics" and "bedfellows"...some people apparently aren't

too choosy about whom they frequent.

[Maru Kitteh]

87. And both generally leave the encounter diseased.

[Surya Gayatri]

89. Yup, that's the risk with promiscuous behavior...LOLOL!

[Mike__M]

110. Obtuse now exceeds

180 degrees. That's the math now.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

147. The biggest non-ideological difference is that the TP has huge institutional adavantages.

The movement associated with Bernie's campaign has huge disadvantages. I can acknowledge the effectiveness of their tactics in gaining power without admiring them. See the difference?

[NorthCarolina]

24. I will no longer vote for Third-Way Democrats. Period.

That includes all of them.

[Punkingal]

25. I agree with you, except for the Tea Party part.

Please don't even use the term to compare. They are ignorant and ill-informed. We are not.

[Trajan]

26. Well said ...

I am totally committed to this ... More power to 'us NOT me'

The Democratic Party has destroyed their legitimacy as a party for regular people and working families ....

This, thanks to the leadership of the DLC ....

It's not OUR fault ... The fault lies ONLY in the choices made by MY party leadership to become the party for bankers and hedge fund managers ...

We will take our party back ...

[Admiral Loinpresser]

39. +1 n/t

[COLGATE4]

29. Thess people are pissed- until November 4, 2016

at which time they quietly go back to their normal lives and daily concerns - especially the young people and won't give politics a thought again until 2019.

[IamMab]

30. You think the Tea Party is in control? Wow.

Just... WOW! You folks have learned all the wrong lessons from that hateful movement.

By all means, follow their roadmap to failure. Try, like they did, to build a coalition by kicking out and excluding everyone who doesn't already agree with you.

Progressives are a minority of a minority of a minority in America. You're not as powerful as you pretend.

[Dem2]

31. Kucinich, Occupy, MoveOn, DFA, BLM, 99%, MM

It's not a new movement, it's a new leader, and he needs to be replaced with a younger leader soon as his time is fading.

[Sparkly]

32. There's a revolution

every 4 years. Sometimes 8.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

44. I disagree.

Reagan's election was a revolution, a sea change in American politics. As was the election of FDR. Neoliberalism is a failed attempt to deal politically with Reaganism. We are still in the Age of Reagan.

[Sparkly]

46. Every revolution thinks it's new.

:yawn:

[Admiral Loinpresser]

47. Welcome to "full ignore." n/t

[Sparkly]

49. I'm sure I'm in good company.

[stonecutter357]

53. +1000

[Surya Gayatri]

92. Simply the best!

[stonecutter357]

52. test!

[Mike__M]

108. I'm with the Admiral's sea change

We're hoping Bernie will be the left's response to 1980 Reagan, a turning of the tide. If it doesn't happen, then maybe that makes Bernie the left's response to 1976 Reagan, or even to Goldwater--the status quo continues a while longer as his young supporters gain experience. Either case, Third Way is doomed.

[img][/img]

[Fresh_Start]

40. Getting more people to be committed to participating in the political process is a good thing

I was frankly annoyed when I read stories which began...I'm 32 and this is the first time I'm voting.

The non-voters are one of the major reasons why the system is as bad as it is.
I'm a liberal voter in a liberal county in a liberal state....so arguably my vote doesn't matter.
But if other liberals talk themselves into not voting, then there is no assurance that we can hold what little ground we have been able to preserve.
There are almost always conservative v liberal items at stake in votes...including votes as local as school board.

[oldandhappy]

43. yes! A lot of work ahead of us.

We need to build from local to state to national. We need to 'primary' status quo democrats. At the same time we need to vote for democrats running against worthless repubs in the House and Senate if we do not have our own candidate ready to go. Good candidates are not always easy to find on short notice. We need to support and encourage good folk and help them prepare to move into these positions. We need o support the alternative media who are getting information out to us i.e. Bernie 2016 TV and TYT. There will be others. Watch Democracy Now. Subscribe to shows giving you the information you want to receive. This is all part of the movement. It has taken me awhile to realize the scope of what the Sanders campaign has started. Thank you for your post.

[oberliner]

48. That quote is from Theodore Parker, not MLK

Just FYI.

[Betty Karlson]

57. My sentiments exactly. eom

[randome]

65. I'm getting tired of seeing "oldsters" promoting "young people" as if it brings them absolution.

We're all in this together. I'm 57 and I don't consider myself nor my concerns to be all that different from anyone else's. And believe me, I want life to be much better for my two 18 year old daughters.

The people are not pissed. At least not to the extent of keeping the momentum of a revolution alive. If they were, then Sanders would be winning handily but he's not. He's losing. I think the primary reason for that is that he gives good speeches but does not work well with others.

There is a reason he has fewer Senate endorsements than Ted Cruz.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

[KPN]

66. Too Funny. One of the Hillary Posters

linked this thread into the Hillary group saying that now Bernbers think the Tea Party is awesome!!

They are having a conniption fit over this thread -- it's blowing their brains up!

They really just do not get it -- probably because of years and years of believing in the system, the institutions, the establishment. They just can't get out of that box.

[jwirr]

115. Good they need something to keep them busy.

[rateyes]

120. First, they laugh at you...

We know the rest.

[JoePhilly]

68. These "pissed people" will need more than one new candidate in FL.

The Tea Party began to hold rallies right AFTER Obama was elected.

When will this "progressive Tea Party" start to actually organize?

[Stuckinthebush]

69. The Green Tea Party

Yep.

No thanks. That didn't work out well for the GOP.

[liberal N proud]

72. Green tea from the Green Mountains in Vt

Sounds about right.

Sounds like a bunch of troublemakers who are set to just cause trouble.

[pinebox]

102. Uh they got people elected

You are aware of this, right?

[Stuckinthebush]

121. Uh, the short term gain

Resulted in long term damage. When the extremists define the party then they eventually lose in the long term. No thanks.

[johnp3907]

70. Teabaggers?

[stopbush]

73. "It may take several years."

Nope. Decades, maybe.

Here's an idea: form your own party and leave the Democratic Party alone. Those of us who are Democrats are just fine with the Party as it is.

[Go Vols]

93. I am not fine with it at all

The current Prez says he would be a moderate R in the '80s,and Hillary is touting herself as Obama 3.0.

Didn't care for moderate R's then either.

[Tarc]

74. Ideological extremism is bad, regardless if it left or right

Being a president means learning how to compromise with the opposition when the need arises. We're not a dictatorship.

[apnu]

77. The #occupy and #BLM revolutions are rolling their eyes at this.

The revolution has been already going on.

[Hiraeth]

78. well, are y'all gonna let us join the elite club or not?

[apnu]

79. Those doors been wide open from the beginning. Why not step through them?

[Hiraeth]

81. and who am I supposed to be voting for again?

[apnu]

83. That's up to you.

[Hiraeth]

84. well then, I am already there. Thanks.

[apnu]

85. Okee-dokee. Glad we cleared that up.

[Hiraeth]

94. lol

[marlakay]

86. Thats true in our area

We have plans after primary to change our name from Bernie to progressive voters and plan to work on local issues.

We live in northern CA and plan to work for Bernie to the end but if he doesn't make it we roll our efforts over to being a progressive group of volunteers for change.

[The_Casual_Observer]

88. Bernie didn't invent anything new, most recently the occupy movement made a pitch for all that and

more. As it turned out their demonstrations were eventually crushed by lack of support and apathy from John Q Public, the media and local authorities.
The tea party appeal has to do with their objectives of lowering taxes, "christian values", gun rights and so on. These things sell
very easily to your average joe. On the other hand, free college, banking regulations, isolationist foreign policy and so on are a very hard sell to joe.

[NuclearDem]

96. Yes, and ever since the Tea Party was born, the United States government

has been utterly nonfunctional and unable to reliably take care of basic business.

Credit downgrades, constant fights over whether the United States should pay its bills, frequent shutdowns of most of the government, a dysfunctional legislative, a paralyzed judicial branch...are you sure this is what you want to emulate?

[bvar22]

99. I disagree strongly with your first sentence.

Bernie did not start The Movement.
It existed long before Bernie, its latest manifestation being OWS.
Some would trace The Movement back to the Obama Campaign, or course he never came through, turned his back, and left The Movement standing in the street after getting their votes. His administration began ridiculing them almost immediately, and, of course. his cabinet picks were a stinging slap in the face to his supporters for "change".

Others would extend The Movement back to the Anti-Vietnam War Movement and Woodstock, and others back to the Civil Rights Movement.
Personally, I believe they are all just different names for the same movement for Equal Protection, Equal Rights, Equal Pay for Equal Work, Equal Access, Fair Distribution of Wealth, and Equal Justice under the Law....for EVERYONE. No Exceptions.
My great Uncles and great grandfather shed blood for that manifestation of the LABOR movement.

Bernie stepped in as a charismatic spokesman and figurehead for this election, but certainly not as the founder of the movement....though he HAS, like many of us, been fighting FOR The Movement for over 40 years.
Win or Lose, The Movement will continue either way, with or without Bernie.
Bernie has helped us become stronger, more unified, and more vocal,
and is certainly a worthy fighter for our Movement.

[Mike__M]

111. One thing Bernie has done

He has called a lot of ordinary people into the arena, people who care but aren't ready to camp out in a park and get pepper-sprayed or get arrested. He brought them in and said look around this stadium, there are thousands of you in this one city, you're not insignificant.

[bvar22]

117. Yes.

He has been an effective and inspiring leader.
I'm beginning to feel some hope for our country.

Of course, The Party establishment will FIGHT us every step of the way, by hook, Swiftboat, or crook (as we have witnessed this year). If the Party Establishment (Clintons, DLC, 3rd Way, Republican Lite) continues down this shortsighted and self-destructive path, THEY will be responsible for the creation of an effective and popular 3rd Party that takes the place that the current democratic party has abandoned while chasing Republicans and BIG MONEY since 1992,
just like they created Nader in 2000.

Vacuums are filled, and the current Democratic Party has left a huge, sucking vacuum where the FDR/LBJ Democrats stand,
and will once again.
Thank You for the OP.
Thanks, Bernie,
and deep thanks to all the many thousands of supporters.

We will never stop.
We will never be quiet.
We will never go along quietly or gently with the Status Quo.

---bvar22
a mainstream-center FDR/LBJ activist Democrat for over 50 years,
now labeled a "Far Leftist" in what passed for today's Democratic Party.
I haven't changed.



[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[apcalc]

101. And then it will be a new establishment.

"The more things change, the more they remain the same."

[MisterP]

103. being thwarted only makes us angrier, makes us more and more aware of the constant rigging

and when these tools are visible we can fight them directly instead of having them buried in our trusting backs as with the past 22 years

[Arugula Latte]

107. The DNC had better fucking NEVER shove a corrupt Third Way Republican Lite candidate

like Hillary down our throats again.

[nolawarlock]

113. "A Progressive Tea Party"

Really? A Progressive Tea Party?

Horseshoe Theory

[NastyRiffraff]

122. Silly ol' me

I thought I'd heard every lunatic idea possible from Berniacs. Now this.

[rateyes]

123. First they laugh at you.

[NastyRiffraff]

124. And then they continue laughing

until their stomachs hurt and they gasp for breath.

[rateyes]

125. And then you get the last laugh when you win.

[NastyRiffraff]

139. Exactly!

Hope you vote for Hillary Clinton in the General!

[rateyes]

140. Don't think she will be in that contest.

[NastyRiffraff]

141. Ha! We'll have to see, won't we?

[rateyes]

142. Yep.

[lumberjack_jeff]

126. Progressive economic populism is overdue.

If not Sanders, then someone else.

The only similarity to the Tea party is the breadth of support from the public. The Koch brothers could only prop up their astroturf for so long.

[pat_k]

127. Hear, Hear!

[Major Hogwash]

135. BLM supports Bernie.

Hillary is the New Nixon because the Dem establishment has gone over to the Dark Side.

[silvershadow]

156. Amen. nt

[Metric System]

158. The straight white people are pissed (apparently).

[Metric System]

159. The majority of African American, Latino and LGBT voters have rejected your candidate.