My Wife Won't Be Voting For Hillary She Says

[scottie55]

I know she was really pissed off when Bill pardoned Marc Rich the tax cheat. She was watching some folks talking about money in politics yesterday, and legal corruption, and she told me she wouldn't be voting for Hillary.

I started to think of how many people down ballot will suffer by having someone like Hillary at the top of the ticket.

I guess some people's acceptable level of corruption, or "influence" (cash) is different than others.

My wife's tolerance level appears to be average.

[blm]

1. Why does she think Rich was pardoned?

.

[Demsrule86]

24. Yeah

It is always a good idea to blame the wife for the husband's actions...so so smart and fair...

[blm]

43. I wasn't expecting a real answer from the OP. Few realize the truth behind

the pardon and assume the GOP narrative of money and sex pushed through corpmedia poodles was accurate.

It wasn't.

Rich was pardoned by Clinton because GHWBush wanted him pardoned. Rich was a named figure in the IranContra report.

[antigop]

71. here is what Bill wrote...

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/18/opinion/18CLIN.html

The pardons that have attracted the most criticism have been the pardons of Marc Rich and Pincus Green, who were indicted in 1983 on charges of racketeering and mail and wire fraud, arising out of their oil business.

Ordinarily, I would have denied pardons in this case simply because these men did not return to the United States to face the charges against them. However, I decided to grant the pardons in this unusual case for the following legal and foreign policy reasons: (1) I understood that the other oil companies that had structured transactions like those on which Mr. Rich and Mr. Green were indicted were instead sued civilly by the government; (2) I was informed that, in 1985, in a related case against a trading partner of Mr. Rich and Mr. Green, the Energy Department, which was responsible for enforcing the governing law, found that the manner in which the Rich/Green companies had accounted for these transactions was proper; (3) two highly regarded tax experts, Bernard Wolfman of Harvard Law School and Martin Ginsburg of Georgetown University Law Center, reviewed the transactions in question and concluded that the companies "were correct in their U.S. income tax treatment of all the items in question, and [that] there was no unreported federal income or additional tax liability attributable to any of the [challenged] transactions"; (4) in order to settle the government's case against them, the two men's companies had paid approximately $200 million in fines, penalties and taxes, most of which might not even have been warranted under the Wolfman/Ginsburg analysis that the companies had followed the law and correctly reported their income; (5) the Justice Department in 1989 rejected the use of racketeering statutes in tax cases like this one, a position that The Wall Street Journal editorial page, among others, agreed with at the time; (6) it was my understanding that Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder's position on the pardon application was "neutral, leaning for"; (7) the case for the pardons was reviewed and advocated not only by my former White House counsel Jack Quinn but also by three distinguished Republican attorneys: Leonard Garment, a former Nixon White House official; William Bradford Reynolds, a former high-ranking official in the Reagan Justice Department; and Lewis Libby, now Vice President Cheney's chief of staff; (8) finally, and importantly, many present and former high-ranking Israeli officials of both major political parties and leaders of Jewish communities in America and Europe urged the pardon of Mr. Rich because of his contributions and services to Israeli charitable causes, to the Mossad's efforts to rescue and evacuate Jews from hostile countries, and to the peace process through sponsorship of education and health programs in Gaza and the West Bank.

While I was troubled by the criminalization of the charges against Mr. Rich and Mr. Green, I also wanted to assure the government's ability to pursue any Energy Department, civil tax or other charges that might be available and warranted. I knew the men's companies had settled their disputes with the government, but I did not know what personal liability the individuals might still have for Energy Department or other violations.

[blm]

72. Heheh….Mine was the Reader's Digest version - digest everything he said and then

boil it down to the truth…..He was doing it for GHWBush. Rich was a longtime operative and go-between for Poppy and his CIA.

[antigop]

75. just posting a link to what he wrote. nt

[blm]

77. I know…it just happens to be one of my sore points with Bill - IranContra and BCCI

deserved the fullest vetting PUBLICLY, but, so much was buried that mattered and still matters to this nation and the world.

If they had been more exposed, no one named Bush would have been allowed NEAR the WH ever again, let alone become president again.

[PyaarRevolution]

65. Then she doesn't deserve ANY credit for things in the Clinton Administration.

She shouldn't have the right to claim it if she won't accept the bad with the good in it. You can't have it both ways but some Hillary fans seem to think that.

[StevieM]

70. Sure she can have it both ways.

She has the right, like any politician, to say that she agrees with some things that Bill did, and disagrees with others.

That holds true for all Democrats. We can all pick an chose which parts of the Clinton and Obama presidencies we want to embrace and which parts we want to reject.

I don't think Hillary has ever commented on the Marc Rich pardon.

[PyaarRevolution]

73. What I mean...

is more that she can't claim it as experience more than anything.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. My wife won't vote for Hillary because of her much touted "Foreign Police experience".

Which has proven to be fatal to so many people.

[jwirr]

27. total white lady would like to know if your name means

"land of liberty"? That is the best I could do in translation.

[senz]

35. In Spanish, "y" means "and"

I haven't looked up the phrase, but a literal translation could be land and liberty. Sometimes literal translations of phrases don't capture the meaning.

[jwirr]

36. Thank you. I have been seeing your user name for a long time

and just got around to asking. I do not speak any language except English and a little German but was trying to figure it out on my own.

Thank you for the lesson.

[ljm2002]

37. For future reference...

...try this: translate.google.com

It's awesome!

[jwirr]

38. That is great. Thank you.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Land and Liberty

It's an Anarchist slogan from the Spanish Civil War. Also used in the Russian Revolution, and by followers of Emiliano Zapata in the Mexican Revolution.

[jwirr]

42. Not a bad slogan. Makes sense for out revolution as well.

[Svafa]

79. Love it.

Also your sigline; Tom Waits is the man.

[NCTraveler]

3. My mother is beyond excited to vote for Clinton in the GE.

We were both over the moon that our help gave Clinton an extremely decisive victory in Florida. At the same time, my mother doesn't blame Hillary for Marc Rich. I wouldn't put your wife in the "average" category if Rich was her biggest concern about Clinton until she watched some videos yesterday. lol.

[cwydro]

5. My mother, sister, and closest friend all have voted and will vote for Hillary.

Same thing with the co-workers that I've talked with.

[scottie55]

8. Same Here, I Will Vote For Hillary

Others won't.

[jack_krass]

16. My Grandpa, sister in law, my 3rd cousin once removed,

my massage therapist, and the guy who fixes my broken roller skates think that Hillary is a fracking, corrupt, corporate money grabbing, warmongering neocon, and will not vote for her.

[cwydro]

18. How interesting that I was able to express support for my candidate without insulting yours.

You, however, were not able to do so.

It's really not that hard.

[Armstead]

20. One of my female best friends thins Hillary is great. Another thinks she's the devil.

They're about the same age (60's) and have similar overall views outside of the primary.

[Lizzie Poppet]

4. Hillary's biggest effect on the downballot will be motivating the base.

The Republican base, that is... Despite her nauseating conservatism, the far right hates her with the fiery passion of a thousand suns. Even right-wingers who don'[t care for Trump will come out to vote against Hillary.

I don't much care if she gets hammered in the GE. I think she'd be a disaster of a president. But her presence at the top of the ticket is sure to get some good, progressive Democrats defeated.

[anigbrowl]

28. She's so conservative, conservatives hate her!

Some of the criticisms of Clinton just don't make a whole lot of sense.

[SpareribSP]

29. She's a rare unifying figure

Who is hated on the left AND the right!

[anigbrowl]

30. Yes...it's almost like people project their prejudices onto her

Of course I've been saying that the farther you go towards the political extremes, the more similar the rhetoric becomes.

[djean111]

53. No "projection" needed to hate war and fracking and the TPP and cluster bombs, the Third Way hacking

at social safety nets, to name just a few things Hillary proudly stands for.

Oh, and the more to the right a candidate sidles, the more similar the INTENT and rhetoric becomes.

[PufPuf23]

59. "The farther you go towards the political extremes, the more similar the rhetoric becomes."

is no more true than the idea that there is no difference between the Democratic Party and the GOP.

One problem is that the traditional FDR liberal has no home in today's Democratic Party nor GOP.

That does not mean that the FDR liberal Democrat is a political extremist nor that they are rare; what it does mean is that the concerns and values of the liberal are counter to the money influenced politics and economics of neo-liberalism and global empire, which are shared by the establishment "New" Democrats and the GOP. While there are plenty of stark differences between the current Democratic Party establishment and GOP, maintaining and expanding the "New Deal" is not supported today by either.

The FDR liberal Democrat is a far from rare moderate that has no true home in the present two party system of the USA.

[jzodda]

6. When faced with two names Trump or Clinton....

Most people who don't like her much will hold the nose and pull the lever for her. Trump is a wrecking ball and millions will show up just to protest vote him.

Also the general election has not even started! Imagine all the crazy stuff he hasn't said yet.

No way anybody is going to convince me that more people like trump than Clinton.

[Joob]

11. I just want to point out

That a lot of military people might, if they believe his claims of pulling back similar to Bernie's plan.

[Skwmom]

12. Did you see the military voter poll? Bernie won Navy and Air Force. Trump won Marines and Army.

I think he might also have won the Coast Guard.

That tells you what the military thinks of Clinton.

[Joob]

13. I didn't see the poll, I figured.

I'm a veteran and no one likes senseless wars for corporations

[99Forever]

40. Gotta a news flash for you Mr Election Prognosticator.

Can't speak for where you live, but MOST places in America, there are more that just the corporate Coke/Pepsi choices on the ballot. I sooner stab red hot pokers into my eyes than vote for tRump. That said, he STILL has a better chance of getting my vote than Hillary Goldman Sachs Clinton.

[jzodda]

44. Then say goodbye to everything president Obama did

Say goodbye to all the executive orders

Say hello to possibly mass deportations in a way we haven't seen before.

Say goodbye to the Supreme Court for a generation. The next president will appoint multiple justices most likely.

That's jusy the tail end of it. Probably end to Obamacare with trump so will lose my coverage also.

I'm guessing you don't like president Obama I guess because Clinton would keep his legacy and trump would undo it.

[99Forever]

45. Save your fear-mongering for someone who's fucking impressed by it.

The lesser of two evils is still evil.

I settled for Obama. He got the last "settle for" vote I'll ever cast.

Don't like it?

Tough.

[jzodda]

47. I could care less

Dont vote why the fuck should I care?

We are going to win without you.

[99Forever]

49. I didn't fucking ask you to care.

Whether "you" (unless by WE you referring to you and the turd in your pocket) will "win" or not remains to be seen.

[stonecutter357]

51. umadbro?

[brooklynite]

58. Such language!

[vi5]

57. +1 (nt)

[emulatorloo]

78. So cool, Trump's definitely pure evil. Enjoy voting for him and I mean that sincerely.

[99Forever]

80. When the fuck did I EVER say I would vote that asshole?

Put up or shut the fuck up.

I hate fucking liars, ESPECIALLY fucking liars lying about me.

[emulatorloo]

84. Your post #45

"The lesser of two evils is still evil.

I settled for Obama. He got the last "settle for" vote I'll ever cast. "

That sounds like you were saying 'Fuck it" and are going for the greater of two evils.

[99Forever]

85. Only to someone not too fucking bright.

[emulatorloo]

86. Lol

You've certainly got the Trump temperament down pat.

You're vote is yours to do what you want with. So again sincere congratulations.

[99Forever]

87. Golly gee.

Thanks for allowing me to use my vote as I see fit. And you've got the condescending, snooty Hillary attitude down.

[emulatorloo]

89. Everybody should vote their conscience. What's 'condescending' about that?

[MrMickeysMom]

48. Oh, I don't wish to see that scenario...

But, if I did, I wouldn't count on there being more to vote for her. Remember how truth in advertising has worked thus far? That, plus the distain so many have for her that they may NOT vote, does not guarantee this outcome.

[Stallion]

7. None of My Ex-Girlfriends are Voting for Clinton Which is Why they Are EX-Girlfriends

[HooptieWagon]

9. Nominating a corrupt candidate doesn't help the party.

Down ticket Democrats are unfortunately also going to pay the price.

[Stallion]

10. 98% of Down-Ticket Candidates Are Relieved There Won't Be a Democratic Socialist at Top of Ticket

so they aren't bombarded with negative political ads featuring Lenin, Stalin and Hammer&Sickle. Fact

[liberalnarb]

34. Informed voters won't by into that shit.

And the gullible ones that do buy into it, are probably already on the right.

[brooklynite]

14. Have you contacted the Department of Justice? Or alerted the media?

Since you have evidence that Hillary Clinton is "corrupt", I'd say it's your civic duty.

[scottie55]

21. And So You Believe She Will Ignore All Them That Gave Her The Millions?

And actually work for the rest of us 100% of the time?

Pretend she didn't get the money?

What an imagination.....

The whole system is ran on corruption in case you haven't noticed.

The Clintons' aren't any more corrupt than the rest in my opinion.

Nothing personal.

They are great at getting paid.

i just don't think an Oligarchy where rich people pay people to do their bidding is best for our country.

[brooklynite]

22. Remind us of the example Sanders gave of her selling out to her contributors...

[COLGATE4]

61. I already asked him/her. So far, crickets.

That's all they've got - hurl accusations including "corrupt" "crooked" "collusion" "dishonest", "law breaker", etc with never a smidgen of actual proof. They've convinced themselves of whatever they intend to convince themselves of. And, by God, their mind is MADE UP and you're not going to dissuade them. Pointless to deal with them.

[TheKentuckian]

66. That is the exact same story the Republicans have been telling for years.

This is why too many Democrats are no more trustworthy on campaign finance reform than the Republicans.

The claim that we all have common goals is a big lie, it is disproven everytime we actually get to an actual piece of policy agenda.

Once past people are actually people and are entitled to equal protection under the law agreement pretty much melts away. I'm no longer sure even that important point of agreement means what it would seem to imply since we now find that support for even the Bill of Rights is tepid at best in certain quarters in this supposed party.

[COLGATE4]

68. I'm really afraid you're right. I've seen more "guilty until

proven innocent" posts lately than I can count. Tepid support for the Bill of Rights may be overstating the amount of support there is in certain quarters.

[TheKentuckian]

69. I was trying to be kind and give as much benefit of the doubt as I can muster.

My true feelings about them are much closer to the T word.

[Skwmom]

17. They are going to run ads asking while Senator X or Congressman Y endorsed Clinton because

being in Washington, they knew what was going on... and by endorsing her they obviously think that is an acceptable way of doing business......

And anything the elected Democratic official or family member may have done will be cast in a whole new light. I wouldn't want to defend companies my spouse was associated with getting MILLIONS from the taxpayers .....

But go ahead and embrace all of that and dis the honest guy who is not for sale. Great election strategy you got going there

[Beacool]

15. That's her prerogative.

Does she think the country would be in better hands under Trump? I'm voting for the Democratic nominee.

[liberalnarb]

33. I agree with you here.

We're gonna have to unite behind the nominee. The repukes are extra dangerous this year. We can't afford to gamble this election year.

[peacebird]

52. Nope. Haven't decided who I will vote for, but I will NOT vote for Hillary. Ever.

Hoping we get Bernie, if not, do I vote green, or write in Sanders? Not sure which is better. But I am sure that I will never vote Hillary.

[mythology]

19. And if Sanders wins how are those down ticket

Democrats going to answer Republican ads with the Democratic nominee calling other Democrats ideologically bankrupt and Sanders calling himself a hypocrite for running as a Democrat?

[Demsrule86]

23. Not as many

As having a communist (he will be painted as the second coming of Stalin) who will raise taxes on the middle class at the top of the ticket. There is a reason why the GOP (maybe you are a secret GOP?) want Bernie Sanders for the nominee.

[ViseGrip]

25. My mom who will turn 90 before she votes, a democrat all her life, won't be voting for Hillary.

[seabeyond]

26. That is on your wife....

[JoePhilly]

31. "My wife's tolerance level appears to be average."

Well ... she is married to you.

[jcgoldie]

55. Bern (nt)

[liberalnarb]

32. I'll support her if she is the Dem Nominee, but not passionately.

Though its not that time yet, Bernie is still in this, and I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure he is the nominee and not Hillary.

[Hiraeth]

39. Support? No, I can't support her. Vote against the worser evil, yes. Support, no.

[BreakfastClub]

46. She can do as she wishes. Who cares. nt

[Zorra]

50. It's no use. They don't get it, and they still won't get it even after the reality of the

November catastrophe starts to sink in. It's known as "Third Way Fresh Thinking".

[jcgoldie]

54. My wife voted for Bernie in Illinois

We will both be voting for HRC in November.

[Squinch]

56. How about your wife's friend's mother's cousin? How will that person vote?

[auntpurl]

62. I'm waiting for the full family tree!

The plural of anecdote is not data.

[tularetom]

60. My wife and I subscribe to the don't ask don't tell discussion of elections

Well, I do anyway. She is always trying to get me to tell her who I intend to vote for.

But based on what Ive heard from her this year I'm pretty sure she will be sitting out the presidential election. Unless Bernie is the Democrat nominee.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Hubby and I know what or whom we will

So does the conure but she ain't squeaking on us. But we discuss editorial policy and all that. So there is that. After that, we subscribe to the vote is secret school and will keep it to ourselves.

I gotta start programming candidate interviews as well.



Not national, local

[taught_me_patience]

64. She's just telling you that

Probably so she doesn't have to hear your arguments at home.

[athena]

76. LOL. Good point.

No kidding.

Not to mention the sexism of voting against a person because of what her husband did. People still can't imagine that a woman's political positions might be different from her husband's, that having Hillary as president will not mean Bill is the one who is really in charge. It's like we're back in the days when men argued that women shouldn't be allowed to vote because they would vote like their husbands.

[Stuckinthebush]

67. I bet in the end she will

Primaries are hellacious. Supporters of the losing candidate often say things like that out of frustration and anger. We've all been there. When faced with the alternative in November, and after hearing Sanders throw his support behind Hillary, she will likely have a change of heart.

Primaries are naturally heated but tempers cool down in the fall.

[Throd]

74. My wife won't be voting for a President.

She thinks Hillary is a crook and Trump is a buffoon.

[fluffyclouds]

81. My husband will not vote for Clinton.

He said he will vote for whomever she goes against if she happens to get the nomination, he just cannot stand her and her supporters smug attitude throughout this primary season.

[Blue_In_AK]

82. My husband's wife hasn't decided what she's going to do yet.

A presidential vote in Alaska means absolutely zip.

[Scurrilous]

83. My ex-wife waded across the Rio Grande to get here, get her citizenship, and get a chance to vote.

And on primary day she waded into the voting booth to vote for Hillary because (among other things) "@#$% that @#$% Trump and @#$% his @#$% wall etc etc." Sanders was a no-go because she hears Socialist she thinks Sandinista and "@#$% that too etc etc." She has little or no tolerance, hence the 'ex.'

BTW....Marc Rich is dead and in the ground. A lot of good that pardon did him. Time to move on.

[LanternWaste]

88. I allege anecdotes which both validate my opinions and act as left-handed compliments, as well.

I allege anecdotes which both validate my opinions and act as left-handed compliments, as well.