Bernie supporters and Hillary supporters are not enemies

[Fresh_Start]

If you treat each other was enemies, we all lose...and far worse then that, many other people will also be harmed

I see that attraction of both sides
Clearly the ideal candidate would be neither Hillary nor Bernie but some other individual who blends both of their strengths and dilutes both of their weaknesses

But we don't have that choice.

If you say you cannot in good conscience vote for the other, at the very f'ing least vote for liberals/democratics in every other race on the ballot. Every single one.

If the democratic candidate wins, they will have more support in other levels of the government.
If the republican candidate wins (god forbid), they will have more opposition in other levels of the government.

Whatever else you do, don't sit on the sidelines and pout.

[bobbobbins01]

1. People who ignore truth and spread lies are my enemies.

There are far more of those people in one camp here. The ones who are honest I have no beef with.

[insta8er]

4. ^^^^^^^^^^^Amen^^^^^^^^

[Fresh_Start]

14. all politicians lie

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/fact-checkers-confirm-hillary-clinton-is-more-honest-than-any-of-her-2016-opponents/24196/
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/opinion/campaign-stops/all-politicians-lie-some-lie-more-than-others.html

[bobbobbins01]

22. The OP isn't talking about politicians.

Its referring to their supporters.

[AgingAmerican]

58. Daily news bin

lol

[winter is coming]

15. +all the numbers. n/t

[athena]

38. Like this one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511831731
Oh, sorry. That one is a lie being spread by Bernie supporters about Hillary supporters. I don't see too many Bernie supporters acknowledging that it's a lie. They seem happy to keep responding as if it were true.

Or how about this one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511591226
Notice that there was not a single acknowledgment by a Bernie supporter after I pointed out that the Bernie campaign itself said the photo did not show Bernie.

I would think, based on this, that Bernie supporters are your enemies.

[bobbobbins01]

40. You're joking right?

So someone thought they saw Bernie Sanders, and they were wrong? That is what you come at me with. Give Brock a refund.

[athena]

41. Bernie supporters had a great time cheering that post

until I pointed out it was a hoax.

Not a single Bernie poster posted to that thread after that. Not a single acknowledgment. Not a single thank you for setting the record straight. The thread sank like a rock.

That's what I call an appalling lack of intellectual integrity.

[bobbobbins01]

42. Maybe its Bruce Rappaport

It is impossible to take you seriously. Stop while you're way behind.

[athena]

43. Saying something doesn't make it true.

And laughing at someone is not an argument.

With every such post, Bernie supporters show that they don't, in fact, have an argument. They immediately resort to personal attacks and disrespectful laughter. No one is fooled.

[athena]

46. Let's review what has happened here.

1. You claimed:

People who ignore truth and spread lies are my enemies.

There are far more of those people in one camp here. The ones who are honest I have no beef with.

2. I posted two examples of threads where Bernie supporters ignored the truth and asked you whether those posters are your enemies.
3. You resorted to childish personal attacks.
4. I pointed out that such posts were not "arguments".
5. You're now personally attacking me, claiming I am a liar and paid to post here.

All this demonstrates is your lack of intellectual integrity.

[bobbobbins01]

47. Cha-ching!

Another 5 cents into your coffers! I hope its worth it.

[athena]

48. That's really low.

But keep going. Every time you make a baseless and unfair personal attack, you demonstrate exactly which side is nasty and childish and which side is reasonable and logical.

I hope lots of undecided voters see this.

Go on, be my guest.

[bobbobbins01]

49. Thats how you can tell who's on the dole.

They always, always, ALWAYS respond. Even when there is nothing to respond to.

Prove me wrong.

[athena]

52. That is a ridiculous and completely baseless accusation.

You've been responding to my posts just as I have been responding to yours. You think you've got me in a corner where I am wrong whether I post or not. I am not getting paid. I am not a liar. I am not a shill. I support Hillary Clinton because I believe she is a very intelligent and a fundamentally honest person (see this) and because I believe she will work extremely hard to do the right things as President. I don't need to be paid to support her; indeed, I've been donating to her campaign as much as I can. It's not a lot, since I don't have a lot of money to spare right now, but it's what I can afford.

This kind of personal attack does not belong on DU.

[artislife]

53. I guess a point was proven!

[athena]

54. Are you claiming I am paid by the Hillary campaign?

That I'm a liar?

Go ahead, say it. Enough with the insinuations.

The point that was proven is not the one you think it is.

ETA: By the way, I've been here a lot longer than you have. Like, over ten times longer. That's some conspiracy theory! That I would have joined DU in 2004 in order to be paid by the Hillary campaign to support Hillary here in 2016!

[artislife]

57. Some say she was planning on it in 1992.

I watch the Americans, who knows how long sleepers hang out?


Just joking.

But really, maybe there is some truth in it? shrug.

[RKP5637]

2. Well said!!! n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. I always vote.

In this instance, I will vote for the most progressive candidate on the ballot for president. And, even hold my nose for a few Democrats on the ballot.

[JimDandy]

56. I am voting only for exactly who I want-no more nose holding for the rest of my life.

So some races might be left blank on my ballot. I wish "none" was a choice for each race on the ballot though, as ballots with races left blank have the potential to be tampered with.

[pdsimdars]

5. I consider people who spread lies and misinformation purposely to be enemies.

If she stops it, maybe there's a conversation but until that time, until the slime stops, she makes herself an enemy.

To put it plainly. . . let's cut the happy talk, I want to see ACTION, not happy-talk talking points. Until then it's just bull sh*t

[HooptieWagon]

6. DWS, Rahm Emmanuel, and the Clintons already declared war on the Left.

I consider corporatists pretending to be Democrats enemies in return.

[SamKnause]

7. Disagree.

The people who are voting against the needs and the

wants of the 99% are not my friends.

The people who are voting for the candidate that wants

a no-fly zone over Syria are not my friends.

The people who are voting for the candidate that voted

in favor of the Iraq War are not my friends.

The people who are voting for the candidate that has ties

to Wall Street, The Military Industrial Complex, Private Prisons,

and Global Oil and Gas Corporations are not my friends.

The people who are voting for the candidate that doesn't think

that the U.S. can have universal health care or free public college

tuition are not my friends.

The people who are voting for the candidate that supports virtually all Free

Trade Agreements are not my friends.

[bvar22]

8. Anyone who authorizes the sale of State-of-the-Art Weapons to brutal dictatorships (Saudi),

is OK with bombing hundreds of thousands of innocent people and displacing millions more from their homes, advocates and assists regime change in countries that do not threaten us (Libya, Iraq), or advocates for escalating the wars in the Middle East IS my enemy.

[Broward]

9. Hillary supporters, whether knowingly or not, are standing in the way of progress.

[SHRED]

33. ^^ this^^

[grasswire]

10. I have nothing in common with people who are willing to overlook..

..massive corruption in order to bolster a candidate with a proven record of lies and obfuscation.

Nothing.

I see them as a threat to our planet (fracking), our children's future (economic inequality), and our way of life and autonomy.

[Bill USA]

11. a brave effort on your part. I'll come visit you in hospital after Bernie fans get through with you.

After months of demonization of Hillary, you've got your work cut out for you. But I applaud your efforts to plead for some rationality in this election.

[Fresh_Start]

13. I didn't even ask them to vote for the other candidate

I just asked them to vote

[TSIAS]

36. Why the allusion to violence?

We're not Trump supporters.

[Bill USA]

37. engaging in hyperbole, not literal statements. Bernie fans have a strong tendency to think anybody

who disagrees with them is a horrible, evil, dreadful person.

Bern fans are quick to Hide posts that they feel insult their religion or contradict any articles of faith they are enthralled by. Bernie fans manifest a profound intolerance of facts or opinions not in consonance with their faith.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. There's been a nonstop stream of bullshit attacks on a certain candidate's "supporters" for 8 months

from the other candidate's supporters, transparently because they haven't felt that there was substantive issues-based grounds on which to argue the position of support for their candidate.

It has been deliberate, and it has been nonstop.

If people are pissed about that, it's understandable.

I don't let shit like that determine who I vote for, but some folks - actual long term members, not the dime-a-dozen brock puppet accounts which have popped up in recent months - have fallen in my estimation or lost my prior respect.

[oldandhappy]

17. You are good.

I confess I started with clinton and the DNC and DWS chased me away. And yes, I will vote, smile.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. DWS is a friggin' DISASTER. Supports payday lenders, votes to put med. marijuana users in prison

she makes me want to barf.

I came into the process open to Hillary Clinton, despite my disillusionment with her track record in the Senate, in particular, 2002-2006 or so. When she started in with the meanignless gibberish about "the middle class needs a champion" in leiu of concrete policy discussion, I figured out pretty quick that she had no intention of doing things any different this time around.

But I will support her if she is the nominee, no question.

[oldandhappy]

20. As I said, you are good!

I lasted until the Chelsea, Claire, Hillary lies in January and then I bolted. I am in a blue state so it probably doesn't matter if I go Green.

Beautiful day here and I am far more interested in our warm breezes, blue sky and Spring weather. We had just enough rain that the Spring colors are fabulous this year.

Have a great weekend.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. You, too.

It's been nice here as well.

[JimDandy]

60. Those brock puppets astroturfers are selling a product. DU used to not allow paid marketers to spam

this site with their products. It is highly likely the admins know exactly who the paid brock puppets are, so the fact that they are posting here means the admins are specifically now allowing people to sell their products on DU.

[Andy823]

16. I totally agree.

I also think there a a lot of right wing trolls on DU who have been working both camps doing their best to divide DU and encourage the fighting between the two groups. Many have been here for years trying to disrupt things. They hated Obama, the Democratic party as a whole, and they turned to Clinton to carry on their agenda. Many others have come here also to disrupt, spread hate and anger, and divide the posters here on DU. Between the long time trouble makers and the new ones, they have pretty much taken over. They don't want any Democrat in the WH, and they are doing their best to convince as many who are gullible enough to buy into their crap, to NOT vote if Bernie is not the nominee, to NOT vote because both parties are the same, or any other kind of bullshit that would help republicans in November, but hurt Democrats.

Real Democrats, Liberals, and Progressives, WILL come together and they will make sure we stop someone like Trump or Cruz from winning in November. I don't' give a damn if it's Hillary or Bernie, I will vote for the nominee because letting ANY republican in the WH will set us back decades from where we are today. We don't need more of what George W. Bush left us, but that's what we will get if we don't get out and make sure our nominee is elected in November.

[Fresh_Start]

19. I agree

I can't believe the vitriol unless there are people here trying to make trouble

[JSup]

34. Looks the same to me nt

[mcar]

21. K&R

I appreciate you trying.

[Logical]

23. No, many hill supporters here are rude as hell. So I consider them enemies. nt

[tralala]

24. Well yeah they kind of are

I mean Bernie supporters want things that Hillary supporters are opposed to, and vice versa

[Jester Messiah]

26. I disagree.

Support for Hillary is support for corparatism, war, and the rightward march of the party. It is the rot from within that is destroying the Democratic party as a force for liberalism. I declare the Hillarite camp to be my enemy, and if that's the future of this party then I'm out.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. "Enemies" is a bit strong.

But I can't feel very warm and fuzzy toward people who've spent the last nine months or so dripping scorn and condescension on those of us who were hoping for something better than the same-old-same-old bending over for the vampire squids of Wall Street. It's hard for me to love those who tell me I'm a naive fool who wants ponies and rainbows and unicorns and "free stuff," or if not that, an unreconstructed Marxist who wants to raise their taxes so kids don't leave college with overwhelming debt.

I've tried hard not to let my irritation with the worst of the Hillary supporters affect my attitude toward the candidate (I finally put the most poisonous ones on Ignore just so I wouldn't be tempted to get into a stupid, pointless argument). But it's going to be damned hard to kiss and make up after months of insults, condescension and gloating, so forgive me if I don't go all kum-ba-yah. I expect I'll manage to suppress my gag reflex long enough to vote for her - I really look at it as voting against the GOP - while I happily vote for down-ticket actual Democrats.

[griffi94]

28. I agree but Hillary haters and Hillary supporters are enemies

[A Little Weird]

29. I suspect most Bernie supporters on DU will vote for downticket races

I haven't heard anyone say otherwise. If anyone sits it out, I fear it will be the young first-time voters and the independents he's attracted.

[democrank]

30. Hillary supporters are not my enemies

but I have very little in common with them based on the issues most important to me. As always, those issues guide my vote, and I could never support a war hawk....especially one who voted for the cataclysmic catastrophe in Iraq.

[JoePhilly]

31. Almost every single Hillary supporter here would vote for Bernie happily ...

... if he were to win the nomination.

And we've said so ... over, and over, and over.

No matter what happens, we won't be sitting on the sidelines pouting.

[timmymoff]

51. yes, by doing so you get to vote more progressive

By us changing we get to vote for a corporatist. Guess it depends on what one can stomach. She is right now supporting her weak push for a lower minimum wage, but she will fight for us. Like she fought for us against TPP, oh wait, nevermind. Or how she already said she will fight for healthcare, oh wait. Now you may begin to understand her half- measure approach doesn't inspire us to vote for her, I already made my decision and stated it thoroughly.

[ridgenvalley]

32. I will no longer vote for the lesser of two evils.

I'm too old and tired for that crap--never again.
Best candidate gets my vote. Even if it means a write-in.

[bbgrunt]

35. I sure don't see many H supporters in this thread echoing

your sentiments.....but I do see them relentlessly intrude on almost every other thread condescendingly attacking B supporters.

[athena]

39. Do you see any Bernie supporters echoing the OP's sentiments?

Why should Hillary supporters try to appease Bernie supporters when Bernie supporters keep mocking and insulting Hillary supporters?

[Kittycat]

45. Don't worry. Her highness just stayed she doesn't need our votes.

No need to appeal to us or the millions of indies that could vote in closed primaries. She has no plans on adopting any of Bernie's policies, just more insults like her followers.

Co, good luck with that come November.

[Live and Learn]

50. Let's see. Hillary supporters are voting against ending climate change, against student debt,

against ending private prisons, against a fair and adequate safety net, against world peace and against economic fairness.

Pretty sure they aren't my friends.

[artislife]

55. And then you end it with "don't pout"

I swear, you are trying to get people to write in Prince on their ballots.

[Fresh_Start]

61. I agree I should have stopped at don't stand on the sidelines.

pout was too far

[gollygee]

59. They shouldn't be

This place is just plain painful lately. People are being ridiculous.

[timmymoff]

62. Actually we are.

I have no use for those unwilling to fight for anything but the status quo. Possibly the most gutless of generations, the ones supporting third way policies and the long time democratic lurch to the right. So yes we actually are enemies, and if we were friends I wouldn't really need enemies. Deplorable group of people willing to condone all kinds of republican policies and regressive stances all for a D behind a woman's name.

[Maedhros]

63. Hillary supporters condone illegal wars based on lies (Iraq and Libya).

They condone corporatist trade agendas (TPP), bellicose foreign policy (Syria, Honduras), the surveillance state, Wall Street malfeasance, and the private prison industry.

They are NOT my allies.