Andy Stephenson would be so proud.

[vintx]

When did people get so blase about black box voting?

Remember when discrepancies between exit polling and results raised eyebrows? I do.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. Like daily reports of mass murder,

Or recalls of dangerous cars

This happens so often, we are too numb to react. And our media studiously ignores reporting news nowadays.

[uponit7771]

2. Sanders had a fair chance to be heard, that's a fact not in dispute

[KPN]

27. By who -- the DNC, State Party Committees?

Lo l!!!!!

[Demsrule86]

41. You can not accept the fact

That although you love Bernie, other Democrats do not. I do not believe the primary was stolen. I voted for Bernie in Ohio after much internal debate...honestly, had he gone negative before Ohio, I would not have voted for him. maybe others feel the same way. His campaign staff has not helped him..their tactics distract from his positive message.

[KPN]

54. You are over-reacting like every other Hillary-bot out there.

Who said the primary was stolen? I don't believe it was on balance. But I sure in hell don't just sit on the sideline and say, "oh, well, it's politics" when intended or unintended flaws in our elective process result in voter suppression and/or changed or uncounted votes.

I have a hard time believing any of you who say that you voted for Bernie. You know why? Because I don't personally know a single person who decided they liked Bernie but then changed their mind -- not one. People attracted to Bernie are so because of principles they hold near and dear, and tend to be decisively committed to those principles. So ... you might as well stop peddling that false story, it doesn't hunt.

[uponit7771]

81. did you read what you wrote?!?!

[KPN]

90. Yes ...

and you mean what I know.

[choie]

68. The Media and the DNC

did not give him the coverage and support that the other candidate received. Don't be dishonest.

[Deb]

3. I do

and came back to see if anyone else did. Politics isn't a f**king game, lives are at stake and they don't give a shit.

[seabeyond]

4. You were here at the time to know Stephenson?

[vintx]

5. Yes. I was here when the issue of voting 'irregularities' was not something we blew off

Back then we were concerned about it. Very.

[seabeyond]

6. Who were you?

[LanternWaste]

18. I'm with ya. I think we're seeing another poster exploiting Andy's good work

I'm with ya. I think we're seeing another poster exploiting Andy's good work for his own agenda (and that agenda sure ain't BBV).

[vintx]

26. HER. Read, FFS.

And my agenda is to shake people into their senses

People brushing off this crap is sick. It is a sign of a disease which has all but killed this party.

[seabeyond]

33. Just coming from the angle that you do is a waste of time for people have any kind of conversation.

All Democrats have issue with voter suppression and irregularities. It is not a Sanders position or Sanders supporter position. That you come onto Du and point the finger, accusing and calling them sick, is the real issues.

[byyiminy]

61. You were there. You don't remember Bev Harris, FFS?

Yes, I'm new, and I'm also a old veteran of DU wars in 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, and 2014. I know exactly what I'm looking at.

A lot of us veterans are mostly long gone thanks to the lurch to the rightward of this website.

[seabeyond]

74. Not the point. This poster comes on as a newbie. We do not have the courtesy of knowing

of knowing who this poster is telling us we are pieces of shit and we are sick people. I want to know who this person is lecturing me as he/she invoke the memory of Andy.

[Bonobo]

12. I was here and the OP makes an excellent point. nt

[trumad]

15. I guess the Op was a lurker

Because he certainly wasn't here.

I see his as using a dead man for political bullshit.

[Bonobo]

16. Could be. nt

[vintx]

17. Wow. Black Box voting is now "political bullshit".

Like I said, Andy would be proud.

Stop with the drama and think. What made these issues suddenly not matter?

And I'm a she, TYVM.

[LanternWaste]

20. Exploiting Andy is bullshit. Though I understand how bias prevented you from reading the obvious.

Exploiting Andy is bullshit. Though I understand how bias prevented you from reading the obvious.

[vintx]

24. Exploiting?!!!!!

He spent the last years of his life fighting to fix this issue so that we could have fair, accountable elections.

The fact that some around here suddenly think that the issue suddenly no longer matters is fucking shocking - to some of us anyway

[seabeyond]

34. Who the hell do you think you are coming onto Du accusing Democrats not being

concerned about votes. It is priority for Democrats, Clinton, Obama sending the DOJ in to address across the nation. This is not Sanders baby. He has done much less than all the Democrats that are addressing this.

You walk into Du, calling us sick, bring in Andy, and telling us we do not have a problem with irregularities.

Bull fuckin' shit.

[vintx]

37. Show me where I called you or anyone else sick.

You can't seem to have a rational conversation so we're done.

[seabeyond]

40. "People brushing off this crap is sick" Ya, we are done. !!!

[vintx]

42. Subject/verb agreement is a thing. nt

[seabeyond]

43. My point stands about calling people SICK... because you prefer to ignore reality falsely accusing.

[Cal Carpenter]

45. You have a selective memory

if you think elected Dems were on board with challenging the votes in 2000 or 2004. In 2000, not a single senator would step up to challenge the election results. In 2004 it was almost as bad until Boxer (iirc) put her ass on the line for it. Andy was working with members of BOTH parties - anyone who would take the issue seriously. - in fact a Republican Senator, John Ensign, wrote a stronger bill than the Dems at that time in terms of black box election machines and voter protections. Andy Stephenson supported that bill because it was better, and because this is an issue of democracy for all people, not a particular party or another. With only a few exceptions (Boxer, Conyers et al) Dems put up as much of a fight against true transparency in elections as Repubs. And here we are more than 10 years later with the same problems - it isn't a mere accusation to claim that Dems haven't taken up the cause, it is a fact. It was a lot easier to assume we were all on the same side during the Bush years and a lot easier not to worry about it at all during the Obama years...

And seeing as how you'll probably check my profile yes, I was there. I was here on DU and very active in the election reform forum. I was on site in Ohio and other states at meetings, protests, converences. I spent time with Andy at an election reform conference in Ohio just weeks before he died. I worked closely with him and many other activists (Duers and others) on letter campaigns to get sponsors on bills and other objectives.

(I had to retire my old user-name soon after all that which had something like 20K posts because trolls with vendettas knew who I was. And no, I won't tell you what it was.)

eta: bottom line is that I agree with the OP.

[vintx]

71. Once again wish I could rec posts.

Excellent analysis of the complacency / complicity of this party in studiously ignoring this issue.

[demmiblue]

73. Thank you for your input.

For some, it is the cult of personality that blinds them.

The integrity of our voting system far outweighs who benefits and who doesn't. Democracy.

[seabeyond]

75. Where has Sanders been in all this?

[Cal Carpenter]

104. Look, I'm not a Sanders campaigner

and I'm not here to defend him - as far as I'm concerned, you are trying to change the subject. I was addressing your false claims and assumptions about the Democratic party's actions on election reform. If you'd like to continue that conversation, please say something at all relevant. The assumption that the Dems are doing or will do something about these problems is wrong. HAVA was a bipartisan joke and as far as most elected politicians were concerned that was the end of the story.

As for Bernie, look it up on his website. He has supported IRV for a long time (Andy S did as well), and I believe he has supported the idea (and maybe even introduced bills or amendments, I don't remember for sure) of making voting day a national holiday. There's more on his website. If you're so concerned about the issue I would assume you'd have done your research on the candidates' actual positions by now...

[seabeyond]

105. Obama administration has been sending the DOJ out to address laws passed and has

done a fairly good job. I am not gonna pretend they have not done or accomplished anything. The point of the thread is Sanders being a stand up guy on this. He is not. Has not. Accomplished or done anything that others have stepped up to do.

[Kelvin Mace]

56. I believe that Trumad is not claming that BBV is "political bullshit"

but is questioning its being brought up in this context.

I will assume you missed that distinction.

[blm]

80. I noticed that, too.

Usually makes me wonder why the pretense?

[vintx]

97. What 'context' is that? The one where AZ and NY are under investigation?

That context?

[Kelvin Mace]

98. Yes, actually

And it is a valid question. I am willing to give you the benefit of a doubt on the matter, but others may not.

However, you characterized Trumad's comment as trivializing BBV as a concept as BS, which was not the case.

[vintx]

100. What's he referring to when he says I mentioned him for "political bullshit" then?

I mentioned him because I think of him often.

Every time I see people brushing off the concerns of those who post about all the "irregularities" in this primary.

I wonder how a site that seemed once to be convinced that election results could not be trusted ito be accurate n this era of e-voting could suddenly echo the talking points used by the RW when disenfranchisement comes up - I.e. blaming the victim.

Where we once advocated for the right to have your voice heard, suddenly people are fine with those voices being silenced.

[Kelvin Mace]

101. Again,

I take you at your word. Others may not. My only quibble was your post:

"Wow. Black Box voting is now "political bullshit".

in response to Trumad's post:

I guess the Op was a lurker

Because he certainly wasn't here.

I see his as using a dead man for political bullshit.

It would seem Trumad is challenging your motives since your screen name is not familiar. You might address that issue by revealing the name you posted under back then.

Again, I am willing to accept you at your word, others may not.

Andy is a sore subject with a lot of folk after Bev and her gang dragged him through the mud, so people are touchy about his name being bandied about. Add to that the current friction between HRC/Sanders factions and you have a LOT of room for misinterpretation of intent.

[frylock]

36. I see his as using a dead man for political bullshit.

This is fucking rich.

[vintx]

38. +1

[bobthedrummer]

51. I was here and spoke to him several times IRL. n/t

[Punkingal]

7. Sweet Andy.

He cared.

[Brother Buzz]

29. And a pox on Bev Harris

All she cared about was lining her pockets.

[Punkingal]

30. I loved Andy. His heart was pure.

[Kelvin Mace]

63. Had to dig into the archive

https://web.archive.org/web/20080202093830im_/

[greatauntoftriplets]

66. More walks down memory lane.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=192238

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=192757

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=193769

[blm]

82. so many of our dearest DUers we don't even see anymore…..

.

[hrmjustin]

92. I remember him when I posted under the username hrhjustin,

I remember that people made trouble with the funds raised for his treatments.

Horrible people that did that.

[greatauntoftriplets]

94. It delayed his surgery.

[blm]

76. Thanks for the photo…..

gbnc was my gay husband…..heheh….man I loved that guy. We had so much FUN in our threads.

[greatauntoftriplets]

83. He loved you, too. Often told me that, even when you disagreed.

[blm]

85. We disagreed? ; )

heh

[greatauntoftriplets]

86. LOL.

[blm]

88. Exactly - like Lucy and Ricky disagreed.

He was Lucy. ; )

[greatauntoftriplets]

89. Even he thought that, down to the red hair.

[Punkingal]

84. Thank you!

Look at that sweet face.

[blm]

87. ((Punkin))

I know. So sweet.

[MisterP]

46. classic monomaniac, really: if it can't be done her way she flips completely

it's purely personal

[Kelvin Mace]

64. She was unhinged

She could go from zero to batshit in the space of a sentence.

[blm]

79. heheh…..some know firsthand…...

hey, old buddy. ; )

[Kelvin Mace]

99. I still don't hear well out of that ear

Hope all is well in your hearth and home.

[Kelvin Mace]

60. Which she did quite well, if memory serves

Had a big non-profit sitting on at least $2 million back in the day. I have had an occasional bout of curiosity about how she wound up, but I go do something else unpleasant until the urge passes.

[IdaBriggs]

8. He's still in my contact list on my email.

I just can't bear to delete his name.

[Kelvin Mace]

58. I had a voicemail of his

on my office phone that I kept for years until my business closed.

Still have his emails. Still have the old site up. Was offered $15,000 for the domain name, ooo, gosh, 7-8 years ago? Not selling.

[Marrah_G]

9. I'm losing hope

[FlatBaroque]

11. You might hate me for saying this

but making us lose hope is their objective. They feed off the misery and hopelessness of human beings.

[vintx]

19. Same. nt

[FlatBaroque]

10. I wonder if Andy was taken out?

His investigation came very close to exposing the election fraud.

I know that disease can be inflicted as a method of elimination..

But to answer your question. Since Republicans kept quiet about it when they used BBV to "win", Koch Brothers Dems are also not going to complain when they use it to win.

[bettyellen]

44. No, pancreatic cancer ran in his family pretty strongly. When I met him he felt ill and waited

a good 6-8 weeks before going to a doctor, despite us telling him he looked jaundiced and should go soon.

Sucks to see the OP use a friend like this. Shameful.

[greatauntoftriplets]

47. And it seemed to come on quickly.

He looked okay (tired but not jaundiced) when he spent Christmas of 2004 with my family. He called me from Washigton, DC, sometime in January and complained about feeling sick. Since Bev had screwed up his health insurance, I told him to go to a VA hospital. Like you said, he waited a while. Men.

[bettyellen]

48. January in DC was when I first met him, and I didn't notice him looking bad till the next morning.

Yeah, he waited a while. He had a sister pass away from pancreatic cancer, but he was scared to go to the doctor and waited. Men, yep.

[Kelvin Mace]

67. Yeah, I remember it distinctly.

I dread hearing those words these days. Had a few members on my wife's family come down with it, and knew it was pretty much over. Her aunt was diagnosed in August and was dead by late February. PC is one of those nasty cancers that gives few symptoms until the damage is too far gone to treat. I remember looking it up when Andy told me about it, and was very depressed by what I found. I spoke to an old friend who was an oncology nurse, and she just shook her head.

We have horrible things like this in our society which we won't spend the money to cure, but by god we can drop a trillion dollars on a war in an instant.

[greatauntoftriplets]

69. It was first diagnosed as a gall bladder problem.

I've known a lot of people who have had that surgery. None of them were ever jaundiced.

[byyiminy]

102. I remember.

When a friend of our family came down with pancreatic cancer a few years after Andy died, we all thought he wouldn't live very long. He has had his Whipple procedure, but he is still around, living out West, and we still see him a few times a year.

[Kelvin Mace]

103. They were very lucky

only about 5% of PC patients respond to the procedure.

So far, no one I know has beat the disease.

[riderinthestorm]

91. You really don't think Andy wouldn't have been all over this?

Personally I think its exactly the right time to remember Andy.

The OP is very respectful.

[bettyellen]

93. I think he would be disgusted at the baseless rumors blaming Hillary. He was better than that-

Bev was not, but Andy sure was.

[riderinthestorm]

95. I believe he'd be with DeBlasio on figuring why 120k voters disappeared off the rolls

I believe he'd be incredibly interested in the audits in Chicago that took a 43% Hillary, 57% to Sanders and rounded that up to a Hillary victory.

Etc etc

His attention to those details was linked (for me) as to why we loved him.

YMMV.

I think he'd be like a terrior on this. (And that's a compliment oh inevitable jurors alert stalking me ).

[Kelvin Mace]

65. *sigh*

No, he died of pancreatic cancer, and fought it all the way to the end.

[Doctor_J]

13. Some people at DU will accept anything as long as it favors their candidate

War, torture, SS cuts, huge permanent gifts to insurance companies, "trade" deals that let foreign companies ignore US laws, fracking, capital punishment, and of course voter suppression.

[LanternWaste]

21. The corollary also true... people will post anything as long as it favors their candidate

The corollary also true... people will post anything as long as it favors their candidate, "slave-master" relationships, POC being low-information voters, and of course, Stockholm syndrome.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[vintx]

23. No, it is not the same. You're just looking at a contest.

If this were American idol you'd be right. It isn't

The stakes aren't just about someone getting a prize

She is for fracking, 'clean' coal, etc.

This is about the future of the planet. Not a popularity contest.

[KPN]

31. Ridiculolus comparison.

Really -- in effect, you are equating posts with actual policies.

[Trajan]

62. I was so proud of Ms. Clinton

When she went to bat for Haitian workers ....

They were going to get a wage increase to 61¢ per hour, when Clinton stepped in on behalf of Haitian Employers ... They dropped the minimum wage to 31¢ per hour ... Thanks to Clinton's intervention, their minimum wage was cut in half!

Yay to slave wages!

Yay to the masters ... They retained their slaves!

Now THAT is an excellent 'slave master' relationship!

Did I say she went to bat for them? ... My mistake - she TOOK a bat to Haitian workers ...

And, as an added bonus - good bye, and fare thee well! ... These half assed denials paint a true picture of who you are inside ... Fare thee well ....

This time it's forever ....

[vintx]

72. I've lost respect for so many here

whom I used to hold in high regard.

[vintx]

22. It literally makes me feel ill to see it.

When I think of the time and $$ I've spent wasted trying to push the party back towards the left...

[KPN]

28. Yep. Simple factual truth.

[seabeyond]

35. Democrats have been on this. Not Sanders. He mouths, and he does nothing. Clinton,

Democrats, our DOJ are actually doing something. You people, you accuse, you thru out and create false accusations, and do NOTHING. The Democrats do something about these issues, and youa re the one to ignore it.

[farleftlib]

39. Absolutely correct

These things used to be strictly promoted by the R's and unacceptable to Dems. I'd
love to know what happened. Oh wait, I do know.

[bobthedrummer]

52. +1 n/t

[kgnu_fan]

14. We need to overcome the system...

[KPN]

32. We Will!

Time for real revolution!

BERNIE OR BUST !!!!

[whirlygigspin]

25. good ole Volusia co.

Dumpster Diving for Democracy

i was here

As I recall it was the lack of health insurance coverage that started the war over BBV the one who shall remain nameless. Health care as a right saves lives.

[greatauntoftriplets]

49. Really?

Please proceed.

[bettyellen]

50. Did we meet in DC? Or NYC, with Andy?

[Avalux]

53. Andy was the best - I miss him. I do wonder what he'd be saying right now.

Something tells me he would not approve of the "meh" attitude so many Dems have about the voting irregularities this primary.

[Kelvin Mace]

55. Well, as someone who was in the middle of that fight

I hesitate to fuel some accusations I have read, but I will say that the glossing over of even rudimentary cross-checks that we called for back in the day is worrisome.

But having read that it's perfectly fine to take Wall Street's money and there is NOTHING shady about that, who am I to expect consistency on any issue? It reminds me so much of the folks who excused and explained away many of Bev Harris' improprieties since not doing so was terribly inconvenient.

I wonder if she spent all that money she raised yet?

[vintx]

57. I refuse to even mention her name.

But yes, worrisome is putting it very mildly imnsho.

[Kelvin Mace]

59. Nah, that makes her out to be like Voldemort,

so I say her name.

Did you post under a different name back then, as I don't recognize your screen name?

[vintx]

70. Yep I did.

I didn't want any baggage trailing me into these discussions though so I just started fresh. I will be gone again once the primaries are over.

[azurnoir]

77. I wasn't here but I have been told about it and as far as I know

Bev Harris is still persona non grata for many here

[Bjornsdotter]

78. Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about him

...this election season.

[imaginary girl]

96. framing

I was here during Andy's work with this issue and during our Johnny Gosch discussions, though I've mostly been a lurker since. I am no less concerned about voting integrity, but don't appreciate the way it is framed by many Sanders' supporters as being Hillary's fault or that it is aimed exclusively at Sanders. Framing makes a difference, and people care about issues regardless of whether they share those concerns with you or not.