Anne Rice says ...

[NurseJackie]

"Bernie ran as a Democrat when it suited him. Now it's time for him to man up as a Democrat and support the party he has used throughout his campaign. It's time for him to heal the wounds that he has inflicted. It's time for him to talk some sense into his followers."

~Anne Rice

I'm very sorry I ever contributed a nickel to Bernie's campaign. I had no idea his followers would become obstructionist and go to the depths they have with the politics of personal destruction. They're worse than Republicans.

~Anne Rice

Is he the better candidate? Is there the slightest indication anywhere in his record that he would an effective president? I admire the man and his crusade, but look at what is happening. His legacy is going to be more polarization, more obstruction and more politics of personal destruction. Just look at the comments by his followers on this page alone.

~Anne Rice

---
Is there any room under the bus for Anne?

[LexVegas]

1. She's awesome. nt

[NurseJackie]

9. As a former Bernie supporter, you'd think her words would resonate.

They really seemed to like her when she was supporting Bernie early on in the campaign.

[aikoaiko]

30. As a former Bernie supporter, her words are suspect.

[mmonk]

2. The wounds were not caused by Bernie.

[Armstead]

40. If she was irresponsible enough not to know who Bernie is before she supported him....

her "disappointment" does not have any merit.

[NurseJackie]

46. She's an author, not an oracle.

[Armstead]

50. That's my point

[NurseJackie]

55. Heh-heh! Yeah, sure. :-P

[Armstead]

57. Take yes for an answer sometimes

[NurseJackie]

61. So sorry, my fault entirely ...

Silly me! I should have realized that when you wrote "If she was irresponsible enough not to know who Bernie is before she supported him....her 'disappointment' does not have any merit." that was just another way of agreeing that it's Anne's fault for not being an oracle who can predict the ugly path that Bernie and his supporters have chosen.

Thanks for clearing that up! What was I thinking?

[Armstead]

63. You're good..........You should work in a pretzel factory

[NurseJackie]

73. That's better than someone hoping and praying for the GOP to win, or ...

... working against our nominee, or trying to damage the party, just so that they can indulge their vanities by personal satisfaction of being able to say "told-you-so".

I keep seeing that around here, and it's still unclear to me how any rational person thinks that this approach actually helps the causes that they claim are important to them.

Maybe it's just their way of acting-out because they're having difficulty in finding more mature and constructive ways of expressing their disappointment. Perhaps it will pass.

[LanternWaste]

136. And you move those goalposts creatively and with imagination.

And you move those goalposts creatively and with imagination.

[Armstead]

137. Not moving any goalposts

Just saying that if a high profile celebrity wants to endorse someone they should do their homework first. Her "complaints" are rather specious.

Bernie's positions have not changed. He's no crankier than he ever was....Some of his supporters get out of hand, but that's going to happen with any campaign or large movement -- especially those that people get very invested in emotionally.

No goalpost movement involved there.

[PyaarRevolution]

3. What wounds?

That's like acting everything was copacetic in the party before which is a lie.

[rurallib]

5. very true

Dems have strayed far from the ideals of the New Deal which should be the standard.

[PyaarRevolution]

23. Would you prefer to cover LBJ's War On Poverty?

Al Fromm doesn't speak for me, that's for sure.

[PyaarRevolution]

36. WHERE did I say I only wanted these programs updated to help Whites?

The idea of the programs, without color or gender attached, were good ideas and are still applicable now. The TVA created a tremendous amount of jobs in building infrastructure and we definitely could use our infrastructure rebuilt on that scale, especially putting in solar roadways. Set up Solar Powerplants, Geothermal, Tidal, Wind et al. We can go even further, helping set up a farming system that helps dismantle Big Ag and relocalise it, for our health and affordability.
"Our workers compete globally now. And white privilege is receding". You say that like American job loss is only White privilege job loss, Americans of all colors lose by competing globally and I definitely have no problem with seeing tarriffs reinstated.

[Armstead]

47. It's not about white privilege. Sanders supporters want EVERYONE to have privilege, except...

those at the very top who really do have excessive privilege and have been systematically abusing it.

As for FDR and LBJ....you have to put history in the context of history. They were products of their times -- but that doesn't mean the baby should be thrown out with the bathwater in terms of their accomplishments.

And look at today in terms of today. I don't recall Sanders ever proposing, for example, that universal healthcare should be universal for everyone except POC.

[brush]

85. LBJ overcame much of his racism to and passed major civil rights legislation.

And many "Great Society" programs helped everyone, unlike many of FDR's "New Deal" programs which excluded African Americans.

[brush]

92. Not advocating going back to any era of progressivism, just trying to get the facts straight

We are, like you say, in a new day. Many of Bernie's ideas are good things but are more ideals than possibilities in today's political realities.

BTW, you didn't mention that the New Deal mostly excluded blacks.

[mpcamb]

12. Exactly- he's stayed on the issues that affected the decline of the US workers-

Wages and equity. If that's inflicting wounds the Democratic party needs more of it.

[PyaarRevolution]

49. Disgusted.

So you'd rather we'd move back to the America with the miners who were nearly starving to death with the wage they were being given. This was when the women knew that some of their children would starve to death in the process of striking but all of their children would likely starve to death if they didn't.

There is nothing wrong with Nationalism in my view when people of all colors are welcome to the party and you bet your ass I welcome everyone. I wouldn't mind not even having Protectionism if I was given a CHOICE to buy said product made here but in like 90% of the cases that choice isn't given.

You're resigned to the idea we will forever be screwed by these scumbag CEO's. I'll tell you this, that I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. We also need to reinstate for striking what I9 did.

[Squinch]

109. See, this is where you guys lost. The poster said something. That something was an accurate

reflection of fact. It might not be a fact that we like, but it is a fact nevertheless. We never WILL be a nation where manufacturing workers abound and where they make up the ranks of the middle class. Sorry, but we won't.

Then you just went to Pluto and came up with all kinds of things that you just projected onto him that have nothing to do with what he said.

This is something I noticed that Sanders supporters did all the time. And I suspect that many of you totally believe the things that you made up in your head about those that don't agree with you.

[PyaarRevolution]

121. I double down on what I said about Nationalism and Protectionism.

There is NOTHING antiquated on the former if everyone is welcome and it's a great tool to use if that's the case. By itself one has to clearly understand that I've heard the bashing of Nationalism before, as a proxy for bashing National identity/culture. Maybe the poster doesn't mean anything by it but I heard someone on "Meet the Renegades" who wrote a book called "Europe's Orphans" who works for the Financial Times(sells to the elites), he proceeded to spin as much as he could to try keeping the EU alive. One of the big things he bashed was "National Identity". Trying to force a giant Nation state like the EU down people's throats who don't want it and bash "National Identity", is a problem. Garbage like the EU and Free Trade as well as the (esp.)Free Trade agreements are what Globalists believe in, a race to the bottom, in wages, environmental standards, giant nation states, etc.
I said what needed to be said about Protectionism and I would even say we need to go so far as to occupy the WTO wherever they meet.

[Squinch]

122. Oh, FFS. So you read crap somewhere and you tell a poster that has nothing to do with the crap that

he is responsible for that crap.

It's obnoxious, it's irrational and it's moronic.

As I say, this is why you lost.

[Bluenorthwest]

4. Last time I checked in with Anne Rice she was denigrating LGBT for Jesus, having made $$$ selling

lots of fiction packed with homoerotic themes. She's a Reagan Democrat at best, not to be trusted because she always serves herself before others.

[kstewart33]

81. Hate the message, attack the messenger.

One meme that I wish would be put to rest on this forum.

[Bluenorthwest]

102. Ah, no. It's a matter of Rice having exploited my community for profit, then berating us for her

'faith life' then reverting once again to exploiting us when her coffers ran low. The messenger has a well known reputation for inconsistency so great that her 'message' is very dubious, random and probably temporary. She'd gain much credibility if she spoke less of the flaws she sees in other people. She has attacked LGBT from a religious point of view. Now, he son came out so she does not do that anymore.
Of course straight people trust her, they don't care about LGBT, if they did they'd have spoken out when Hillary said Reagan was an AIDS hero and LGBT did nothing until he showed the way.

[Skwmom]

6. Talks some sense into his followers?

I suggest Anne Rice look in the mirror.

[Beowulf]

82. Vampires don't have a reflection

I'm not sure about authors of vampire erotica.

[auntpurl]

7. To be fair, she's been a bit of a religious loony in the recent past...

And I say that as a Hillary supporter. Not sure I really want Anne Rice as a surrogate in this campaign.

[NurseJackie]

14. I'd seen that too...

... but it's unclear to me what role her religion plays in her life. Does she use it to judge others, or as a weapon against others, or is it more of a personal and peaceful and spiritual journey for her? (L&LL)

[auntpurl]

17. From what I remember...

she wrote her smutty books (which I quite enjoyed as a teenager, lol) and then came out as a full on Christian and wrote books about the Virgin Mary or something, and while she was in that period she was anti-LGBT. Then later she denounced her Christianity. To be fair, ALL of her books have had a religious component, even the really sexy ones. It's something that is obviously a huge motif in her life.

[Bluenorthwest]

21. Yes but she did as you say, exploit homoerotic themes for $$$, then denigrate LGBT people for

her religion, then later when her $$ suffered she dropped the denigration and now claims to be 'pro gay' again, I looked it up, she's been for, against and now she's currently for again.
I don't trust that. She's all about Anne, Anne's $$ and she calls her $$ 'God' at times. That's Anne.

[auntpurl]

26. I could go either way...

I could believe it's a cynical cash grab, or I could believe she's genuinely conflicted about religion (maybe due to growing up in a family which really screwed her up about it). It's a bit like Prince: he too played with gender and sexual preference for much of his career and then due to his religious conversion was anti-LGBT.

Difference being Prince was a musical genius, and Anne Rice is...not so much a genius, lol.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. Big difference: Prince never claimed some candidate was God's choice. No politics for Prince, not

in that way. He never would say these things she's said about people who support the other Democrat. But Anne, she says those things about people who she used to call friends, and she does that regularly in her life and her 'faith walk' she's ego driven, selfish and really bigoted.

Other differences, Prince spoke of Prince's life choices, Anne attacked LGBT, just as her 'endorsement' of Hillary contains lots of smears and slams for Bernie and Bernie supporters that are not called for at all.
She endlessly spoke against, against, against. It's always about the faults of others with Anne. And that's a real problem. I have absolutely no reason to trust her words, her motives nor her agenda. She might still be very anti gay, just in need of gay $$. She'd certainly say one thing and do the other, Anne has no rules for Anne.

[Tarc]

41. I'm sorry, but this Blue guy is lying through his teeth to you

See my post at #39; http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511847473#post39

[auntpurl]

51. Thanks for the info.

I hadn't followed it that closely, but I suppose I'm always inherently suspicious when someone comes out as strongly religious, because so many religious people are bigoted.

Thanks for your post.

[Tarc]

60. I know, I've been an Anne Rice fanboy for years, and was pretty weirded out by her Catholic return

at the time. I've never read her religious-themed books and probably don't plan to, left the Catholic myself years ago.

Btw, I obliviously can't speak for every quote by Rice, it may be possible that upon her initial reentry she said something apolitical and LGBT-critical. If so it was short-lived as her support for them and others was the cause of her eventual re-quitting.

[auntpurl]

64. I was a massive fan as a teenager

Read most of the Vampire Chronicles, the Beauty books and Belinda (hidden in my room so my mom wouldn't find them, lol) and the first few of the Witch series (those ones got really weird). I also loved Cry to Heaven and Feast of All Saints.

I don't think she's an amazing writer, but she really sucks you in to a book.

[Bluenorthwest]

112. So you did not read any of that material and also did not pay attention to what she said but you

still very aggressively claim I, who did read it and who did pay attention, and lying? That's some stones, Tarc.

[Tarc]

116. Lying about different things now?

I simply did not care for the "Out of Egypt" series. I myself have not been involved in organized religion in 30 years or so.

[Bluenorthwest]

104. No, I'm not lying you nasty person, Anne Rice herself said she left her religion because she was

tired of being anti gay. Anne said 'I'm out, in the name of Christ I refuse to be anti gay'. That of course is her admitting that her faith community demanded that she be anti gay and that she had been anti gay prior to her leaving that faith. Before she was 'out' she was in that faith for years. She did not refuse until she left the Church.
It's her own words. She is the person who said she left her faith because of the anti gay element. That element was not new to her faith, it was part of that faith when she joined it, she knew that and agreed with it. Later her son came out and that caused her to review her position. Many anti gay conservatives 'evolve' when their own child comes out. It's self serving.

Calling me a liar is just bogus. Anne needs to own her actions. Your candidate has also been saying crappy things about LGBT history and she also needs to own that and make amends. Reagan was not the hero of the AIDS generation, LGBT people were. Hillary needs to get that said.

[Tarc]

105. "...and that she had been anti gay prior to her leaving that faith"

No, it does not indicate any such thing. Rice rejoined the Church despite its anti-gay rights stance, found that it was intolerable to deal with after a time, and left. She maintained her own pro- stance before, during, and after.

So, again, sop lying.

[Bluenorthwest]

111. She joined an anti gay group for years, then her son came out then she said 'I can't be anti gay'.

No one joins a bigoted group unless they agree with the bigotry. In fact all others have to use as metrics are our actions, Anne's action was to join by her own choice a group that is very active against LGBT politically, rhetorically and personally. She stuck with them until her son came out. Then she left the Church saying she could not keep being anti gay. She stopped being anti gay by leaving her Church, joining it was her becoming anti gay. That's why she lost so many fans and all that income. She also let her Throne of Fangs slip from her hands. Vampires = True Blood, not Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt.

She will never be able to fix that reputation, to be a constant reader is an act of trust. I'd never trust her.

[Tarc]

113. You are still lying

At no time was Anne Rice "anti-gay"; one does not automatically ascribe to every single aspect of a group that one joins; this particular schism was present from Day One and was the eventual cause of her departure.

I fully realize that your dishonorable tactics & deception here are being done in the name of politics and politics alone, as you and many Sanders followers routinely toss Bernie critics under the bus.

But there are people here that know better about this particular situation, and can see through your dishonesty a mile away.

[Bluenorthwest]

120. All I have done is cited her own public statements. She lost many fans and lots of money and

that's how it will remain, her career has a big asterisk next to her name. You can rationalize it all you like but in doing so you actually negate the best action she has taken and her very best defense. She says she left the Church she had joined because she could not be anti gay meaning to be in that Church required her to be anti gay, she became aware and she repented of her previous action, but if we deny that she had ever erred we can't really accept that she repented. She realized she was in an anti gay club and she left it.

To be kind we could say Anne had joined the Church for one set of reasons and then realized that her action was in fact anti gay in nature because joining a bigoted club is joining with bigotry. Because she realized her actions were bigoted, she reversed those actions. She left the club.

I would respect this more if it was not for her continued focus on using her public platform to sermonize in the negative against people in politics. This is an element of that very thing she says she has repented of. I really didn't care for the way she was 'for Bernie' either.

[Tarc]

125. No, you haven't, you rely on the "no one joins a bigoted group unless they agree with the bigotry"

falsehood. I was a Catholic for 15 years, never had a bigoted bone in my body, fully supported gay/lesbian marriage years ago. Many people disagree with aspects of their Church, yet still stay for other reasons.

[justiceischeap]

34. I believe her son came out and that actually changed her thinking on LGBTQ issues

but to some on DU evolving ones way of thinking isn't welcome.

PS. She claims she quit Christianity because it lacked honesty but it the timing coincides with her son coming out.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Evolving and vacillation are not the same things. Also, while I welcome those who 'evolve' I do not

agree with your theory that the act of welcoming them requires offering them full trust unproved, nor does it require forgetting their past actions. She's been for, against, for, against. She does these things as they suit Anne. Other people, denigrate them. Her own son? He must not be denigrated.....She was fine to bash me in public. But her son, that's different. My Mother is not Anne Rice.
You can love her if you want, give her your PIN code and see how it goes.

[NurseJackie]

88. I've never followed closely her career or life-events ...

... but I do remember that her son, Christopher, is gay. Maybe she did some reflection (pardon the vampire pun, it was intentional) whenever her son came out of the closet (And I'm totally guessing here. Maybe she always knew, maybe he was never in the closet.)

[hellofromreddit]

10. Why am I expected to care what Anne Rice says?

I've been told many times now (in this forum) that celebrity opinions don't matter. So which is it?

[mpcamb]

15. Even if they don't matter and aren't worth a bucket of spit they get printed and promulgated.

[NurseJackie]

19. Why do you think anyone expects anything from you?

It's not so much what she's said (although she's right on target with her observations) ... it's that she had previously supported Bernie and has now reconsidered.

It's an object lesson about personal growth. Whether you find any value in it is your own choice.

But to automatically assume that we "expect" anything from you is a bit presumptuous. Like it, hate it ... heed it, ignore it ... it's all up to you.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. She's previously been pro-equality but also anti equality, pro-gay then later anti gay, then later

sort of pro-gay again. Anne changes her mind to suit Anne and her $$. Tomorrow she might join Ted Cruz because Jesus and hate the gays again. Who knows?

[Tarc]

39. Anne Rice was never at any time "anti-gay", what complete-arsed bullshit

She returned to Catholicism in the late 90s, but maintained the same pro views she has always had, in supporting LGBT, feminism, and so on. Rice wanted to return to the spirituality of the church, as she felt that was what was missing in her life at the time, but the pressure to conform to the church's social conservatism was the breaking point.

Anne Rice “Quits” Christianity, Says Anti-Gay, Anti-Feminist Followers Not True to Christ

particularly;

Novelist Rejects Christianity, Remains “Committed to Christ”
On Wednesday, Rice wrote the following on her Facebook page:

“For those who care, and I understand if you don’t: Today I quit being a Christian. I’m out. I remain committed to Christ as always but not to being ‘Christian’ or to being part of Christianity. It’s simply impossible for me to ‘belong’ to this quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous group. For ten years, I’ve tried. I’ve failed. I’m an outsider. My conscience will allow nothing else.”

She followed this with:

“As I said below, I quit being a Christian. I’m out. In the name of Christ, I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control. I refuse to be anti-Democrat. I refuse to be anti-secular humanism. I refuse to be anti-science. I refuse to be anti-life. In the name of Christ, I quit Christianity and being Christian. Amen.”

Explaining herself further, Rice’s latest offering on her Facebook page emphasizes that her faith remains as strong as ever, but that it is the affiliation with some of the religion’s followers that has prompted her to redefine herself:

“My faith in Christ is central to my life. My conversion from a pessimistic atheist lost in a world I didn’t understand, to an optimistic believer in a universe created and sustained by a loving God is crucial to me. But following Christ does not mean following His followers. Christ is infinitely more important than Christianity and always will be, no matter what Christianity is, has been, or might become.”

[Starry Messenger]

25. I guess you missed the Killer Mike threads.

[Bobbie Jo]

66. All 116 of them. nt

[hellofromreddit]

139. You mean the ones packed to the gills with people shouting that celebrity opinions don't matter?

I saw them.

[uponit7771]

76. Same reason people are supposed to think Sanders is a progressive standard? jus sayin

[hellofromreddit]

138. Please explain. I don't follow your reason.

[seabeyond]

13. I was disappointed she went Sanders, afraid to see what she was saying in th Op cause I like her.

Now... Good for her. Made her choice and kept her eye and ears open thru out. I am glad she made her statements.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. She's the definitive Hillary supporter, she's been pro-equality then very anti gay for Jesus and

then later when that started dragging her income down she went back to being 'for the gays'. She's like many Hillary supporters, they say this, they say that but nothing is really the truth.

People like Anne who will exploit LGBT for $$ then berate us for her religion are bad people. She's a Reagan Democrat.

[seabeyond]

20. She endorsed Sanders and said nothing until AFTER he lost.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Again:

She's the definitive Hillary supporter, she's been pro-equality then very anti gay for Jesus and then later when that started dragging her income down she went back to being 'for the gays'.
She's like many Hillary supporters, they say this, they say that but nothing is really the truth.

People like Anne who will exploit LGBT for $$ then berate us for her religion are bad people. She's a Reagan Democrat.

[seabeyond]

29. You can say whatever you want. She endorsed Sanders and said nothing until after Sanders lost.

[Bluenorthwest]

45. I can say it, but you refuse to respond to what I say, very Anne Rice Christian of you....again:

She's the definitive Hillary supporter, she's been pro-equality then very anti gay for Jesus and then later when that started dragging her income down she went back to being 'for the gays'.
She's like many Hillary supporters, they say this, they say that but nothing is really the truth.

People like Anne who will exploit LGBT for $$ then berate us for her religion are bad people. She's a Reagan Democrat.

[seabeyond]

67. Because that is not the conversation I am having Blue. I stated something very simple.

I have no desire to go out and spend my time educating myself so I can further address something I know nothing about. How foolish would I be. You can use this as a dig to Clinton and Clinton supporters. The reality is, this woman was a Sanders supporter. Spoke out for him. Gave him money. And said nothing negative until AFTER he lost.

[Orsino]

59. So she's evolved.

So have many of our alleged leaders.

[seabeyond]

94. As did Sanders with marriage equality until 2009. That happens. Better than never evolving, ya think

[treestar]

75. Being this is the only issue that matters

How mad you must be at Bernie for talking to the Pope.

[Bluenorthwest]

100. treestar you are constantly confused by thinking people. I have personally talked to two Popes.

I'll talk to virtually anyone. What I won't do is pander to them nor pander to others using them.
I've spent time with much worse people than the Pope. I talked to GHW Bush, when he was President.

You don't get it, and you are hindered in your understanding by your unwillingness to communicate, you just hold your wee assumptions about others tightly. I could link to your screed about LGBT having 'plenty of rights' and here I am talking to you. Your views are no worse than those of Francis, and unlike Francis you get to vote in the US. And yet I speak to you. My speaking to you is not an endorsement, it's the opposite of that.

Your candidate seeks out TV cameras to deliver massive praise to Ronald Reagan claiming he was an AIDS activist when those LGBT refused to take action. Mine does not offer up praise to those who tried to kill off all the gay people. Yours does.

[treestar]

103. I get it but

President Obama and Hillary seem to have happened to cross the line and are to be condemned forever. In spite of the fact they came to support gay marriage.

It just seems convenient that the year Bernie came to support gay marriage (I presume earlier) is the year it is OK to have gone up to.

Hillary said Nancy was the activist, not Ronnie, and she was just wrong. That particular sin just seems like a mistake for which she could be forgiven. So that excuse doesn't seem right, find something else Hillary has done. It seems like she could be forgiven but after 8 years, we know you have no ability to forgive.

Obama let Rick Warren say a prayer and that was the end of him. Talking to a pope is OK and listening to rick warren is bad. The standard is unclear.

Bernie did pander to the Pope too. He was trying to get the votes of the very people you condemn - Catholics. Why are you not assigning him to the unforgiven category? Makes no sense, unless Bernie really is Jesus, a miracle worker who got you to care about some other issue.

[Bluenorthwest]

118. You need to climb off the platform. Hillary credited Ronald and Nancy Reagan both. Here's the quote

" back in the 1980s and because of both president and Mrs. Reagan — in particular Mrs. Reagan — we started a national conversation, when before nobody would talk about it..."

She says it was both of them, but adds the fictional detail that it was Nancy in particular. Full quote:

"It may be hard for your viewers to remember how difficult it was for people to talk about HIV/AIDS back in the 1980s and because of both president and Mrs. Reagan — in particular Mrs. Reagan — we started a national conversation, when before nobody would talk about it, nobody wanted to do anything about it, and that too is something I really appreciate with her very effective low-key advocacy. It penetrated the public conscience and people began to say, hey, we have to do something about this too."

So you can't even be truthful about what she said, you make false claims in defense of really awful rhetoric. She knew better. She said that to please anti gay Reagan lovers.

She can make amends for that bullshit but she has not even tried.

America failed her own people in that time. America needs to admit that and ask for forgiveness, not pat Reagan on the back and tell us all to move on.

[Luciferous]

16. Why should I care what a second-rate author says?

[Triana]

31. Lots of short-sighted, clueless voters in the US, obviously

Including book authors.

Enjoy your stupid. It's like the moment just before the teenager shoots off a fireworks mortar from his own head or a firecracker in his pants. "Funny huh-huh, ain't it cool."....until it isn't.

Rude awakening on the way. What exactly have HRC supporters "won"? Fracking everywhere. TPP. Cuts to social security. NO CHANCE EVER of any healthcare system that works for anyone other than the big insurance companies. For God's sake don't do anything to change anything. We might progress as a country or something. And we can't have THAT! It's not "practical".

http://www.fark.com/comments/2150900/Teen-seriously-injured-by-firecracker-in-pants
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/3c7a12/22yearold_devon_staples_died_instantly_when_he/

[aikoaiko]

32. So I'm worse than a Republican according to Anne Rice. She can go to hell.

By the way, where are these quotes coming from? Any links?

[justiceischeap]

37. I've seen some online Bernie supporters that are just as bad as Republicans

Using republican talking points to denigrate Clinton and when proven those statements have no basis in fact dig in like faux news idiots. Now, are those supporters actually Republican or are they so entrenched in their own candidate that they are losing all ability to reason?

I was on the fence the longest time and after seeing the way a lot of Bernie supporters act, I finally threw my support behind Clinton--I am first and foremost a Democrat and at the end of the day, I'll support whomever gets the nominatio. But reading so many Sanders supporters refuse to support the eventual Democratic nominee if it's HRC, made me realize that Bernie is using the Democratic Party to advance his own Independent agenda. He should have run as an Independent if he wasn't going to support the party who's ticket he ran on if he loses.

[aikoaiko]

56. I am first and foremost a citizen. I will support the best candidate.

Its funny you should mention supporters. I've found the most despicable posters to be Hillary supporters. They are the type to set up their own website so they can say hateful things about Bernie and his supporters without getting hides. They are the type to set up a satirical Jackpine Radical website and mock lots of DUers -- even CaliforniaPeggy FFS.

By your standards I shouldn't vote for Hillary because of them.

I think Bernie made it clear from the start that he was running to promote an progressive, liberal agenda and not the status quo of the Democratic party. If you thought otherwise then I don't think you were listening to what he was saying.

[Tarc]

33. I love Anne Rice, have been in her FB Group for ages, saw much of this first-hand.

She did take some flak from our side (not by me) when she initially switched from Hillary to Bernie, but not much, and those handfuls of people were shown the door. After a time, she decided to go back to Hillary and it was the mother of all shitstorms. She even left for about a month to regroup and recollect as it was so emotionally draining... Anne has always had to deal with "bros", Men's Rights Activists, etc...due to her feminist views, but the Bernie fans added a whole new and virulently angry layer to it.

[Bluenorthwest]

98. Were you with her during her years of anti gay Christian activism?

She is not well liked in the LGBT community due to those years. She's a random person, she shifts and changes and never makes amends for the harm she does.

[Tarc]

101. As I posted out to the other DU'er earlier, you lied about this

Anne Rice quit the Catholic Church because she would not repent her support for gay rights, feminism, and secular humanism. Some in the LGBT condemned condemned her just for the act of rejoining the church, and I get that, I didn't really like it either at the time, but I respected her desire to reconnect with the spirituality of the Church. Once there, she found the views to strict and hypocritically contrary to the actual teachings of Jesus.

Ms. Rice is not what you make her out to be.

[Bluenorthwest]

114. I am quoting her. She joined an anti gay group, stayed for years, her son came out and she left that

group saying she could no longer be anti gay. That group did not change, Trac. It did not become anti gay it was anti gay when she joined it by choice. She was content to remain in it until remaining in it meant berating her own son.

I see upthread you admit that you did not read her materials during her 'conversion' and that you did not pay attention to her public quotes at the time. I did. So did many of her other LGBT fans and peers.

Calling me a liar like that, when I am citing her own actions and her own damn words is not acceptable. The fact that you do so while admitting to not having any idea about the actual facts is even worse.


Rice exploited LGBT for profit, then joined an anti LGBT faith. She remained in that anti gay faith until her son came out, then she said 'I can't be anti gay anymore'.

Vegetarians do not sign up for Steak of the Month Club for a few years.

Anne could make amends is she saw fit to do so. She has thus far not done so.

[Tarc]

117. I'm not going to argue about your dishonesty on 3 different fronts

So, confine yourself to one tangent if you could, thanks.

[JaneyVee]

35. Yes, Bernie has to heal some wounds.

I agree.

[Bad Thoughts]

42. Insisting the party of the people stands up for the people?

Sure, I feel wounded.

[Baitball Blogger]

44. Anne, it's the other way around. the Democratic party uses us.

[Stinky The Clown]

48. Yeah, there's a place next to my wife and me.

[mcar]

52. K&R

[oasis]

53. Revolted by the way Bernie and "his followers" handled the revolution.

Not a surprise.

[Buzz Clik]

54. Interesting quotes. I agree with them. About this:

Is there any room under the bus for Anne?

That bus is running low on fuel, and a lot of the passengers are finding alternate transportation.

[Orsino]

58. Someone was mean on the Internet, therefore Sanders is evil.

The selected quotes demonstrate no particular insight into Sanders' agenda or abilities.

We might need a bigger bus for all that nothing.

[NurseJackie]

62. You must have overlooked this one ...

Is he the better candidate? Is there the slightest indication anywhere in his record that he would an effective president? I admire the man and his crusade, but look at what is happening. His legacy is going to be more polarization, more obstruction and more politics of personal destruction. Just look at the comments by his followers on this page alone.

[Orsino]

65. Nope. That was my point.

She shows no grasp of Sanders' agenda, and has been distracted by mean meanies on the Internet.

[NurseJackie]

68. Pie in the sky is not an agenda.

[Orsino]

69. The change we desperately need, and the shrinking time we have to get it done...

...are the only relevant agenda.

Sanders dares to commit to these things in ways his opponents won't.

[NurseJackie]

70. Because his "opponents" have enough integrity ...

... to not make empty promises. (And Hillary's supporters are smart enough to not be fooled by empty promises.)

[Orsino]

72. The commitment to corporate dominance is not the change we need.

Eight years ago I would have gladly volunteered to elect Hillary Clinton as a third choice, but supported (and volunteered for) Obama instead because he wasn't in on the IWR disaster.

I have whined and lobbied for progressive measures ever since, but the amazing success of Sanders shows that the desire for a relatively uncompromised Chief Executive is real and widespread. Sanders has worked and pledges to work for things we actually need rather than promising more of the same empty maybe-if-the-donors-say-it's-okay-and-can-still-profit "reform."

Politics as usual is empty, and we can conclude that precisely because Sanders has shown that another, better way is not only possible, but may be inevitable. Anyone not on board with progressive change is eventually going to be left behind by history. We can play it safe for another four or eight years, or we can get to work right this minute to ensure that the next president, Congress, legislatures and Supreme Court are as progressive as possible.

Four to eight years from now, the crises we face are going to be more severe, more urgent, and our resources to deal with them at low ebb.

[NurseJackie]

74. You're out of viable options. Our next president will be one of two contenders.

Which one will you choose to support?

[Orsino]

77. No, we are not out of options.

You and I are going to lobby the hell out of candidates and delegates to shape the most progressive platform, ticket and Cabinet we can get, and we're going to keep lobbying though the general for the most progressive Congress. After the election, and after the Inauguration, we are going to keep agitating for the change we need, more even than any candi s ate is willing to promise.

Because at some level they still work for us, and we have plenty of options. Right?

[NurseJackie]

80. That's a healthy attitude. Good for you! I'm happy to see it! :-)

So I'll put you down as a "no comment" or "undecided" on supporting the party's efforts to defeat the GOP. (Is that fair?)

[Orsino]

86. That depends on how progressive you think the GOP could be.

We absolutely cannot afford to put all our livelihoods eggs into one candidate basket. Big Money buys entire slates and parties, and works even when we sleep, so we have to be more agile and relentless.

I may be undecided on a lot of things, but the elements of progressivism aren't among them.

[NurseJackie]

90. Got it.

[ViseGrip]

71. What a nasty, undemocratic woman, as 30% have not voted.

Let's see how close Sanders gets. Those are bargaining chips for the platform. Without this, Hillary is dead in the water, certainly after she threw the kids who vote under the bus the other day. Bernie has done nothing, and it is the Hillary campaign that trolled online media, lied about the auto bailout, sent her own pregnant daughter out to lie about Sanders and his healthcare ideas.....

Hey Ann, I had no idea the democratic party was so nasty to other democrats, but they are, and you are the icing on a very stale cake!

[Demsrule86]

127. At some point in a primary

A person has won because it is mathematically impossible for the other candidate to win. Bernie has lost in this way. There are usually states still to vote. The voting continues...but the nominee is set. That is how it goes. Whether Bernie stays in or gets out, the voting continues...waste of money to have more primary stuff when it is over. Bernie has to put the country before his own agenda.

[Coventina]

78. I have zero respect for Anne Rice.

She's one of the few authors who forbids fan fiction and will actually sue you if she finds it.

The fanfic community hates her.

[Bluenorthwest]

96. That's a fact.

I come from the opposite tradition. Love the fanfic, it promotes the original better than anything. It preserves and renews the original.

[msanthrope]

99. No it does not. From vampire fanfic we got 50 shades of grey.

Fanfic has that cultural disaster to live down.

[Bluenorthwest]

106. I know vast amounts of fanfic, much of it is based on projects I myself helped make. I've never

read '50 Shades' as it is not sci fi nor fantasy, it is erotic fiction and that's not what I'm into and not what I make. Now fans do in fact take original materials and add lots of erotic elements and that's where you get some really good stuff.
Take Starsky and Hutch. The original good but average, the fanfic versions in which the guys had a romantic connection were in fact more entertaining that the original and very directly influenced the comic take on the feature film made out of the series.
Lots of examples. It's a cottage industry. I fully support anyone being creative, even if they borrow my spark. I'm made of sparks. I can spare the fans a spark or two.

So I have no knowledge of 50 Shades at all. That's the sort of thing that has no interest to me, it's heterocentric kink. Not my department. At all. So whatever point you think you are making, you are not making at all.

[Coventina]

115. Oh brother. Blaming the fanfic community for 50 Shades is like blaming

comedy for "The Love Guru."

[hatrack]

79. I don't always take political cues from authors of homoerotic vampire pulp fiction . . .

. . . but when I do, my first choice is Anne Rice.

[auntpurl]

83. Lol!

I'm a Hillary supporter, but that made me laugh.

[NurseJackie]

84. Good one!

[Tarc]

87. It's funny how conservative christian-ish that sounds

[hatrack]

134. Well I'm delighted you took offense - bless your heart!

William Faulkner she ain't.

[PatrickforO]

91. I'm a fervent Sanders supporter, and I'm pretty fucking tired of

getting blamed for everything under the sun.

This is an election where the establishment that has pissed down our backs and told us its raining for years while they let Wall Street, the MIC and other multinational corporations pick our pockets is facing off against the American people who are sick of things not going their way no matter how much they support certain policies. Remember the study that shows that if oligarchs want something then it happens but if the American people do then who cares?

I'm sick of it being like that. That's all.

So yeah, Clinton will have to win me over. I'll have to hold my nose big time to vote for her, but with Trump as the opponent there's only one decision to make.

She and the rest of the empty suits we elect to supposedly uphold our interests better do so. Bernie has talked about a political revolution, and if the establishment doesn't toss the American people a few bones like single payer, affordable college, a more financially solvent social security, then in a couple decades at the outside the revolution won't be merely political.

But, hey, no matter how many revolutions happen or how bloody they are the worthless fucking oligarchic parasites always seem to land on their feet. When, I wonder will people stop scoffing about unicorns and begin to move toward thinking that promotes social, economic and environmental justice?

So, Ann, I hear you, but don't miss the point. I don't want this world to be a fucking 'savage garden' any more. We've had enough of that shit. Now, it's time to grow up, to grow beyond that. And Hillary will have to be forced by popular pressure every step of the way. They all will.

[LWolf]

93. Anne Rice

has her own interesting history that makes her input on this more than a bit problematic.

First she wrote gory, violent, erotic vampire books. Then she was a Christian. Then she quit. She is, of course, welcome to her own interpretation, but she sure as hell isn't any kind of voice of reason.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

95. Ugh. They're already trying to blame the left if she loses the GE.

[Katashi_itto]

97. The author that went Born again Christian then, when her books started tanking went back to her

original writing style/matter?

That one?

At least she can flip flop too.

LOL.

[whatchamacallit]

107. Plenty of room

[Gothmog]

108. These are strong and accurate comments from Rice

[MariaThinks]

110. good for her

[Xyzse]

119. Love Anne Rice, and still do.

However, in this, I don't see her balance.

I do give a lot of leeway towards the supporters, but tend to give a lot less when it is towards the actual campaign.

Basing those words solely on the supporters is not indicative of what the campaign has actually done. I know it is hard to differentiate, so I mainly go by what the leaders of a campaign do, not their supporters. If one checks the actions of both Clinton and Sanders supporters neither comes out looking clean.

Supporters are a rowdy bunch, and they can not be controlled fully. I don't expect such a thing either.

However, the campaign itself is what I look at.

In any case, I tend to consider that Sanders has run a relatively clean campaign, where he questioned Clinton on the issues, and unfortunately, I can not say he mischaracterized her position as her position changes depending on time, place and who she is speaking to. So at one point or another, she took whatever position that was mentioned. That, is hardly an unfair statement, and one only needs to look at past videos of her to see that such is indeed the case.

There is only one particular matter that the Clinton campaign has done. The campaign itself, not the supporters that I thought crossed the line, it was the Sandy Hook matter which was actually mischaracterized. A bill that was done to be a symbolic point, more than anything else as they knew it was not going to pass, as it was too far-reaching, penalizes manufacturers and sellers for selling a legal item. While of course, approving a sale for those same manufacturer outside of the US, and her gun stance being all over the place.

As for her supporters, use any negative adjective describing a Sanders supporter, and one can use it to describe her supporters as well. I agree it is done in a different way. The arrogance, the feeling of entitlement, and all of those other things can be laid on both camps though it shows off in different manners.

In regards to Anne Rice. I can understand that her point of view is that way, I just don't think she understands that there is a difference between the actions of a campaign and the actions of their supporters, and the actions and virtues of a nominee is more important to be looked at objectively. I can also see how one can come to such a conclusion, and we are all victims of confirmation bias.

It is why when I go to news sites and google, I clear my cache and view the news while not logged in.

[Sheepshank]

123. reality laced with tact

she is awesome

[yuiyoshida]

124. "heal the wounds that he has inflicted." ???

wtf wounds were those?

[tymorial]

126. Oh yes, so much worse than republicans

That statement is laughable.

[AuntPatsy]

128. This back and forth inane bickering is just so damn annoying, we all live in glass houses,

perhaps more should think of investing in better window washing techniques...

[NurseJackie]

130. As soon as Bernie utters the words "concede" or "withdraw" or "suspend" this will be over. Or ...

... as soon as Skinner "calls-it" (as Daily Kos did not long ago) then we'll be able to close ranks around our nominee. (And presumably, all others will leave, be forced out, or "suffer" in silence.)

[Squinch]

131. Yeah, but neither of them is going to do that. They have too much money to gain by not.

[AuntPatsy]

133. Honestly, me personally, I dislike neither of our candidates, I didn't expect perfection

so therefore in that respect won't be as disappointed as some will surely be,

But in the same breathe, it is way passed time for real change to begin, the anger I have no doubt is real, I hope the outrage at those who deem themselves our masters in many ways only intensifies, to ensure change, this time i hate to say it but a revolution is needed, just what that will entail remains to be seen....

But revolutions are fought to free people not enslave them, trump and those he represents wish to enslave others, theirs is not a revolution though many of his supporters declare it to be. There's is just another war aimed at the weaker section of humanity..

Which side will win in the end?

Repeating our history over and over again has gotten us, we the people, no further than we were before...

Decisions decisions....
.

[apnu]

129. For the bitter, there's always room under the bus.

The bitter can fit the whole world under the bus. They are amazing at tetris.

Bernie is the one I voted for. Bernie is probably not going to win this primary contest. I can choose to be bitter about it or I can choose to not be bitter and carry on doing the best I can.

I choose to carry on.

We're going to find out, very soon if the Bernie people are real about their progressiveness and struggle or not. Either they will continue to struggle for justice in concrete ways or they'll shuffle back to the side lines and grumble to themselves, wallowing in bitter entitlement and self-pity.

Its up to each Bernie supporter to decide which one they are. I won't tell them what to do. They have to figure that out themselves.

[Maru Kitteh]

132. BUS STOP!

[Prism]

135. The woman with an Amazon meltdown doesn't like Internet stuff? The hell you say.

Yeah, Rice has a history. When Blood Prince came out, it was shlock. And I say that as a former fan of Rice. The writing was terrible, no plot, minimal characterization. It was a blatant cash grab from an author who had sucked all the fucks out of her give. Reviewers on Amazon were understandably unkind.

And then she had this glorious, glorious meltdown over it.

She has an Internet history of being . . . privilegedly combative about opinions she doesn't like. It was entertaining spectacle.

Her Catholic whumpus lost her a lot of LGBT fans. She said a lot of things that were . . . not accepted well in the community.

So *shrugs* Anne Rice is being Anne Rice. Tune in next week. She may say the total opposite. She lost something when her husband died and never quite gained it back. A bit sad.

I had a mind of rereading the Witching Hour this month. Now that I live in San Francisco, I wanted to read it with a more familiar perspective. But, eh, maybe I'll skip.

I still haven't forgiven her for unleashing her son on the publishing world. Just terrible. Sometimes nepotism is a terrible thing.

(For a hilarious MST type critiques of Rice family writing, I recommend:

http://www.wtftbq.com/meta/rants/dosmst1.htm

http://www.wtftbq.com/meta/rants/merriquemst.htm)

[Nanjeanne]

140. Why is it so hard for Clintonites to understand that most people make up their own mind about things

I could care less that Anne Rice once supported Bernie or that she now says she doesn't. It affects me not at all.

Are there seriously people who base their own opinions on someone else's because they wrote a book?

[Mnpaul]

141. Authoritarian mindset

They fail to realize that this does not work well with liberals.

[eridani]

142. Thanks for supporting war and cutting Social Security. Not

Posting kiddy porn on Sanders Facebook groups and then alerting on them, on the other hand, shows real class.

[snowy owl]

143. The wounds he inflicted in his ever-repetitive issues-oriented message?

Polarization isn't his legacy. If Clinton thinks his message has been bad, wait until she meets the Republicans. And has been repeated over and over, Clinton did same or worse to Obama in 2008. Let's not over-react please. The Republicans have it much, much worse.

[Scuba]

144. "... heal the wounds that he has inflicted." What wounds would that be Ms. Rice?

Are you referring to his reminding us of what the Party used to stand for?

I'm sure that's painful for some who put a "D" after their name, but for many (most?) of us, it's more than welcome and long overdue. I hardly feel wounded.

Now, contrast with Third Way policies. There's some very deep wounds, bleeding profusely. I guess you think of those as bandages or something.