The Party is Already Uniting! Bernie or Busters are outliers ....

[salinsky]

Good news for America! ...

— Among 18 to 29 year olds, Clinton beats Trump 61% to 25% to 14% undecided

— In spring of 2015, this age group wanted the Democratic Party to win the next presidential election by 15 points (55% to 40%); a year later, that spread has increased to 28 points (61% to 32%)

— For the first time in five years, the number of self-identified Democrats is higher than self-identified independents (Dem 40%-Indy 36%-GOP 22%)

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-most-important-poll-you-didn-t-see

[PowerToThePeople]

1. Bernie or Bust!

[seabeyond]

10. PUMA 2016!!!

[Bobbie Jo]

15. Bust it is then!

Have at it!

[salinsky]

19. outlier ... nt

[bjo59]

108. I'd always choose to be an "outlier" over joining the majority that is

sleepwalking toward oblivion. I'd rather be an inner-directed person than an outer-directed person (when in doubt, just follow the crowd) in any and all circumstances.

[northernsouthern]

60. The OP is missing several details from the post.

Biggest issue is this is about a month old before Hillary's paid trolls and scorched earth, and when Bernie was doing much better.

Also compared to the last election with Obama, we are doing much worse by 16% that will even vote.

2016
How likely is it that you will vote in the general election for President in November?
Definitely will be voting................................ 50%
Probably will be voting ................................. 14%
50-50.............................................................. 15%
Probably won’t be voting .............................. 9%
Definitely won’t be voting............................. 11%
Decline to answer .......................................... 1%


2008
10. How likely is it that you will vote in the general election for president in November?
Total Non-College 4-Year-College
Definitely will be voting .............................. 64% 61% 72%
Probably will be voting................................ 16% 15% 16%
50-50 ........................................................... 10% 11% 7%
Probably won’t be voting............................. 5% 5% 3%
Definitely won’t be voting ........................... 6% 7% 3%

The republican candidate is doing over 100% better than in 2008...

Donald Trump ............................................... 22%
vs
John McCain................................................ 9% 8% 10%

Also the best part, Trump and Hillary are almost tied in the young voter enthusiasm...

32. How enthusiastic are you about supporting this candidate (Hillary Clinton).
(n=1,179)
Net: Enthusiastic.......................................... 60%
Very enthusiastic ........................................... 22%
Somewhat enthusiastic .................................. 38%
Net: Not Enthusiastic .................................. 40%
Not very enthusiastic ..................................... 27%
Not at all enthusiastic .................................... 13%

33. How enthusiastic are you about supporting this candidate (Donald Trump).
(n=507)
Net: Enthusiastic.......................................... 51%
Very enthusiastic ........................................... 17%
Somewhat enthusiastic .................................. 34%
Net: Not Enthusiastic .................................. 49%
Not very enthusiastic ..................................... 36%
Not at all enthusiastic .................................... 13%
Decline to answer .......................................... -

[vintx]

71. Wow. OPs title should be ' an exercise in whistling past the graveyard'

[apnu]

79. Yeah well Trump excites the GOP base

McCain was a bore to them.

All the Ted Nugents are coming out of the woodwork for Trump, that's what's lifting him up. Normally they sit these things out. Do you recall if the KKK endorsed McCain in 2008, they've already endorsed Trump.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

101. If you show up and vote and your friends and family do, for the Dem, Trump cant win

more of us than them.

So I guess it is up to you.

[apnu]

110. Worry not! I show up and I bring everybody I can to the polls!

[Sheepshank]

91. I suppose Bernie is at as inspiring as we had been lead to believe

I was told millions of new voter all because of Bernie.

But back to the stats. Obama was extremely inspiring. Amazing unrivaled orator, exciting....why was Bernie constantly being compared to,Obama?

Why are the 2012 stats missing?

[sufrommich]

2. We'll be very strong going into the General. nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

37. You'd better hope so.....

..after all the burned bridges.

[leveymg]

50. This is a study of one age group. The overall numbers are Indy-42, Dem-26, GOP-24

All this shows is the intensity of dislike of Trump among younger voters. Thank G-d for that much, but it doesn't actually show that HRC is a shoe-in against Trump in the GE. Admittedly, the overall race is likely to change, dramatically, in coming months.

On the subject of the implied overall shift toward the Dems in the GE, Marshall is an expert obfuscator. Read the entire paragraph:

In Spring of 2015, this age group wanted the Democratic party to win the next presidential election by 15 points (55% to 40%). Now, a year later, that spread has increased to 28 points (61% to 32%). Notably, this is irrespective of candidates. It's Democrat versus Republican. Also for the first time in 5 years the number of self-identified Democrats is higher than self-identified independents. Dem 40%; Indy 36%, GOP 22%.

Other recent polling data shows that Indies now account for 42% among all age groups, with both parties losing over time to an Indy majority.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=

Tell me if I'm wrong.

[Orsino]

3. With numbers like that, Democratic victories up and down the slate would seem to be inevitable.

There are the small matters of voter suppression and gerrymandering, but it does seem that the electorate is inching leftward.

[salinsky]

20. Good news for America! ...

... and yes, if Trump is the nominee, we're looking at a truly historic November.

[NurseJackie]

4. So, what you're saying is ... REAL LIFE isn't at all like DU?

I had a feeling that was the case.

[uponit7771]

5. +1

[salinsky]

21. Praise the sweet babay Jesus! .... nt

[2pooped2pop]

42. ...

[Buzz Clik]

9. DU is life.

[MineralMan]

6. Yup. Any Democrat or liberal who looks at Trump for more than a moment,

will be solidly in the Democratic camp. Rumors of discord are only rumors. People will move on and support Hillary Clinton in November, including many who may be a surprise to some.

[salinsky]

22. The panic on the right is delicious ...

[auntpurl]

7. Ooh, I hope they all vote down ticket too!

It would be lovely to hand President Clinton a Dem-controlled congress on her first day in office.

[salinsky]

97. That would be awesome! ...

... and there's a good possibility if Trump is the nominee.

[seabeyond]

8. Yes. Puma of 2016 is irrelevant as PUMA of 2008. Nt

[casperthegm]

11. The Democratic Party has fallen to an all time low of 29%

Keep telling yourselves that the party is strong and relevant while the ship continues to take on water. Meanwhile, independent voters have swelled to 42%. Nothing to see here folks...

[LanternWaste]

12. Where specifically in the OP was that statement made?

"Keep telling yourselves that the party is strong and relevant..."

Where specifically in the OP was that statement made? Or (and I find this more likely), you simply created it yourself so you'd have something to argue against...?

Nothing to see here, indeed.

[bkkyosemite]

14. The amount of anger in this primary is all over the net. Keep believing what you want.

[salinsky]

24. So is porn ...

... but, porn serves a purpose.

[haikugal]

34. So does anger. Keep believing you don't need Independants and liberals..enjoy Trump and our

Continued decline.

[JaneyVee]

38. Obama won without independents or white males.

[casperthegm]

65. And Hillary and the dems may well do the same.

If so, good for her and the party. It doesn't change the fact that the party is in the midst of a potential death spiral because many voters have realized that it's abandoned it's core values. The 29% figure isn't just some random number I pulled out of my @$$. It's real and the DNC should be working to figure out why their numbers are falling. If they changed their condescending tone and listened to Sanders supporters they might be able to fix it before it's too late. But I don't think that's going to happen. The party has moved on and as the numbers show, many others have moved on from the party (and continue to do so).

[riderinthestorm]

107. Yes, the Democratic party has declined 7-8% since 2008 depending on which outfit you cite

Those are dramatic declines.

Any other industry would be scrambling to reverse that.

Unfortunately the Democratic party appears to be on course to escalate it.

[northernsouthern]

114. Yeah, a record low. No clue where the op got that lie. NT

[HooptieWagon]

106. Obama got 50% of the Independant vote, and needed every bit of it.

He also got 90% of the Democratic vote.
Clinton gets 33% of the Independant vote, and 75% of the Democratic vote. IDK where she gets the remaining votes she needs to win....maybe she can buy them like Twitter followers?

[northernsouthern]

115. Yes^^

She can buy, and she appeals to some of her republican base.

[MattP]

13. Than why don't you join independents underground?

If you don't like Democrats what are you doing here

[haikugal]

36. We didn't leave the party, the party left us. There has been a hostile takeover by the corporate

thirdway bought and paid for partially by the Koch Brothers. Get it?! No, of course not.

[salinsky]

45. You didn't leave your age group, your age group LEFT you ...

— Among 18 to 29 year olds, Clinton beats Trump 61% to 25% to 14% undecided

— In spring of 2015, this age group wanted the Democratic Party to win the next presidential election by 15 points (55% to 40%); a year later, that spread has increased to 28 points (61% to 32%)

[haikugal]

48. Not really..I'm supposed to be in the Hillary demographic except I can think for myself and have

no trouble recognizing a con.

[vintx]

74. Same

[Svafa]

82. Damn right.

[NastyRiffraff]

59. So what are you doing

in Democratic underground? Surely there are forums for whiners...er, "Independents."

[haikugal]

64. I'm a registered democrat why are you here?

[NastyRiffraff]

66. I'm a reigstered Democrat too

That's why I'm here. But I understand that "the party left you." Guess what? "The party" couldn't give a shit less about you. So stop whining.

[haikugal]

67. I don't whine. I know you don't give a shit about me or any other living thing else you'd support

Someone like Bernie. You and your attitude are a great example of why I say the party has left me and those like me. We are FDR democrats...you're republicans, you even act and talk like republicans. I won't vote for a republican, even one with a D after their name.

[NastyRiffraff]

68. I'm a republican?

That's a revelation. Thanks for reading my mind!

[haikugal]

73. You sound like one.

[redstateblues]

103. That is the whiners fave ad hom

If you disagree with them they call you a Republican

[casperthegm]

113. Seriously- why can't those "whiners" cite real issues with HRC?

Maybe because there's nothing that links her to Republican values. I mean, other than supporting fracking, no fly zones in Syria, the war in Iraq, opposing Glass Steagall, opposing health care for all, opposing college for all, and embracing Wall Street. But I guess that those are just minor, "whiner" issues right?

That, my friends, is why many here are saying the party left us.

[salinsky]

33. From the provided link ....

Also for the first time in 5 years the number of self-identified Democrats is higher than self-identified independents. Dem 40%; Indy 36%, GOP 22%.

[Loudestlib]

49. C rated pollster.

[2pooped2pop]

43. so true.

[randome]

16. I still think this was the good news from yesterday.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-most-important-poll-you-didn-t-see

Take all that together and you come away with pretty clear evidence that over the course of the Democratic primary young voters have become more attached to progressive politics and the Democratic party. One read of this is that the primary process itself - as divisive as it has sometimes seemed - has deepened young voters' identification with the Democratic party.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. at some point in the 08 race a large number of clinton supporters

said they would not support Obama. that changed, so will this.

will there be a small number of voters, who won't vote for her but voted for bernie, sure. however, they will be statistically insignificant, much like the PUMA's of 08.

however, they will be loud and noisy on places like DU and Reddit.

[NCTraveler]

18. Bernie or Bust.

Just as foolish as our enemies on the right. Many actually are our enemies on the right.

[NurseJackie]

26. No doubt!

[Betty Karlson]

28. That insult again? Great party unification you have there! Strong effort.

[NCTraveler]

31. I'm not trying for unity with the idiots of the Bernie or Bust crowd.

Their whole point of being is in opposition to unity and common sense.

[Betty Karlson]

32. No, it's clear you don't want any unity. eom

[NCTraveler]

44. That is simply dishonest.

I believe there is a lot of good in Clintons platform that appeals to Sanders supporters. I have also repeatedly stated that Most Sanders supporters are some of the best democrats out there. Additionally, it is very clear that most Sanders supporters will move to Clinton. That is proven in poll after poll.

I want unity among democrats. Overall, I'm already seeing it. You are fighting for the Bernie or Bust crowd. Not me. Overall, they are not democrats and never have been. More of the Ha Ha Goodman crowd. I don't expect them to unify with the party nor do I want them to.

Bernie or Bust is in opposition to unity and common sense.

[salinsky]

47. well said ... +1 ... nt

[Betty Karlson]

75. Calling people idiots is not a unifying move.

And when that platform will be instantly abandoned at the first sign of triangulateability, the value of the platform is easily overestimated.

[NCTraveler]

76. Ha Ha Goodman is an idiot.

I made it clear I have no intentions of unifying with that right wing low life. Additionally, Bernie or Bust is nothing but a group of idiots. I have no intentions of unifying with that joke of a group. That still leaves me with the opportunity to unify with a ton of independents and democrats. Most democrats are already unified.

[Betty Karlson]

77. "idiot, idiot, idiot" - why not go full Rahm and call the left fucking retards while you are at it?

[NCTraveler]

78. I don't get why you are so opposed to me calling right wingers idiots.

"why not go full Rahm and call the left fucking retards while you are at it?"

Because I am a part of the left and greatly respect the left. What you just presented makes no sense.

Most Sanders supporters kick ass. Bernie or Bust is a bunch of idiots. Sorry that offends you so much.

[Betty Karlson]

84. The Bernie or Bust brigade is not just on the right: that is where your worldview is

totally wrong. You labor under the impression that Hillary is only despised by the right. That independents are only found to her right. That all criticism of Clinton comes from the right.

And trust me: if you consider yourself left, you are missing a very substantial part of the electorate that resides WAAAAAAAYYYYY to your left. You are a centrist, and your preferred candidate is centre-right. 70% of the voters are to her left - and some of them loath her for reasons the right would never dream up: they loath her for being too much like the right.

[NCTraveler]

86. Bernie or Bust. Many sure as hell are on the right. I agree not all of them are.

Simple fact. Their childish temper tantrum and the name Bernie or Bust alone takes them out of the political process. They are politically insignificant.

"if you consider yourself left"

By any standard you use in this country I am on the left. I highly doubt I could be labeled as a centrist. But I do understand you have a great need to label the people around you.

"That independents are only found to her right."
"The Bernie or Bust brigade is not just on the right"

That is another complete falsehood from you. I have personally stated I feel otherwise in our conversation. Not even elsewhere. Right here in our conversation. lol. That is how far you are willing to go. I wouldn't do things like that to you.

[Betty Karlson]

87. "any standard you use in this country" puts Clinton on the left.

In fairness, when even she herself sometimes describes herself as a moderate, those standards must be a bit skewed in favor of the right. Come on, admit it: those standards are skewed.

And now you accuse me of lying for identifying the flaws in your worldview. You know what: I'm done talking to you. My blood pressure is telling me to leave this party.

[NCTraveler]

88. Wow is your post here is really dishonest.

You literally used a part of my quote and then added your own words on to it in order to make it something it wasn't. Really sad.

[Betty Karlson]

89. If you want to spin, I suggest you look for a gym that provides spinning classes.

Please consider this my last response to you.

[NCTraveler]

90. I'm not sure what spinning classes are.

You literally took half a quote from me and then added your own words onto the end in order to make it look like they were my thoughts. That is low. You have no point.

[Doctor_J]

23. Excellent. then there will be no more posts from Camp I'm OK With Endless War telling liberals we

have to vote for Hillary's far right platform.

Every cloud has a silver lining

[salinsky]

25. Nope, you're an outlier ...

... you can be safely ignored.

[Betty Karlson]

27. Nope, not outliers. Hating Trump more than Clinton is hardly a unification of the party.

Your pipe dream is showing.

[salinsky]

35. From the provided link ....

Also for the first time in 5 years the number of self-identified Democrats is higher than self-identified independents. Dem 40%; Indy 36%, GOP 22%.

[Betty Karlson]

72. 40% is not a majority in the GE. And Clinton still polls dismally with indies.

She is the GE disaster the DNC should have prevented, Instead, DINO-Debbie went out of her way to give Clinton the top spot. It's almost as if Debbie WANTS the Republicans to win.

[salinsky]

98. There are indies who lean right and indies who lean left ....

.... she'll do just fine, especially if Trump is the nominee.

[Betty Karlson]

116. Clinton's problem is she polls badly with BOTH varieties. eom

[Nanjeanne]

29. Wonderful. It's great to know we don't count. So no one has to feel guilty if they

Don't vote for Hillary. She has this in the bag and she will be Madame President and all is right with the corporate -- I mean world.

[Downwinder]

30. So what's new?

How can you be any more outlier than a Dem in Texas?

[LexVegas]

39. Agree. Rabid Hillary haters are the small minority. nt

[workinclasszero]

40. Dems are going to murder the anti-american republicans

in the fall!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tonyt53]

41. Eye opener for Bernie-ites

Got news for those 18-29 y/o Bernie-ites, there are a hell of a lot more voters over the age of 40 that that are of you. Plus people over the age of 50 reliably vote. It didn't take some guy to say "free tuition" to get us to register to vote. This same scenario played in 1972. Us college students all registered to vote so we could vote for McGovern. Nixon walked all over him. Us older voters understand that it takes time to get things done, and at least a Democrat majority in the Senate. Bernie and his followers have no idea how things work. They think the President can make all the changes they want without help from Congress. At the Democrat convention, Bernie will have little input on anything. he has done nothing to help the election of Democrat to the Senate and only helped three people running for the House. either Bernie doesn't understand, or doesn't care that there has to be a Democrat majority in the Senate, and not by one or two seats.

[randome]

46. "You can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness"

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[northernsouthern]

51. Lol. Parsing data for the results that you like?

Well it is nice the HRC crew may stop insulting young voters again. Looks like they still hate Clinton.

They have very favorable impressions of Bernie Sanders (54/31); fairly unfavorable impressions of Hillary Clinton (37/53) and extremely unfavorable impressions of Donald Trump (17/74.)

Sanders is Only Candidate with Net Positive Rating, Trump -20 With GOP. Senator Bernie Sanders is the only one of the five candidates with a net positive favorability rating. 54% of 18- to 29-year-olds rate Sanders favorably and 31% view him unfavorably (+23 favorable: Net). On the other hand, Donald Trump’s net favorability rating is -57. Among young Republicans, 37% view him favorably and 57% view him unfavorably (-20 unfavorable: Net).

Also this is not the newest sample...

The main sample data collection took place from March 18 through April 3.

So I am sure this is not the best poll, and what matters is getting out the vote, they sure got my vote out, maybe for good.

[auntpurl]

56. Sanders is no longer a viable candidate.

So the data about him is irrelevant.

[northernsouthern]

61. Firstly no, he can still win...but if he is no longer and option you know that means...

...this study is pointless.

[ibegurpard]

69. perhaps

But Hillary is still Hillary so you've got a monumental task ahead of you.

[frylock]

52. Good. Then that should put an end to all the browbeating and vote shaming.

You guys got this.

[ThePhilosopher04]

53. They may prefer her over Trump when asked in a poll but won't turn out to vote for her.

Hillary inspires no one.

[salinsky]

54. She has inspired 3 million + more people than Bernie has inspired thus far .... nt

[ThePhilosopher04]

118. Not true and you know it.

[auntpurl]

57. She inspires more people than Bernie does. And more than Trump too.

Going by votes.

[Svafa]

83. Primary votes are misleading when a large portion of the electorate isn't able to vote.

[ThePhilosopher04]

119. Fraud and indys not allowed to vote. Bernie would be blowing her doors off

If no fraud and everyone allowed to vote.

[salinsky]

120. If he didn't like the Democratic primary rules ...

... why did he run as a Democrat?

Poor, Bernie ...

... so clueless.

[NorthCarolina]

55. The reason the Dem party registration has grown this year is Bernie.

Clinton is in a virtual tie with Trump nationally. Cheery picking one particular segment within the electorate where Clinton does better than Trump does not a point make in this instance.

[salinsky]

62. Well, I would agree that the robust primary has stimulated and energized the party ...

... but, let's not forget that she has 3+ million more votes.

That's not cheery picking, that's reality.

[NorthCarolina]

63. That's a bogus lead since Caucus states do not count voters.

Means nothing.

[salinsky]

70. Why did Bernie sign up for the Democratic primary ...

... if he didn't know the rules?

[NorthCarolina]

94. It has nothing to do with "rules" it's just

common sense. How many turned out to caucus? I'm talking actual numbers, not just the "official" numbers. Kind of like how "official" unemployment figures for Gov reporting are no reflection of reality.

[whatchamacallit]

58. Lol

[Svafa]

80. But all of the Clinton supporters keep telling me that

this demographic doesn't vote, soo why does it matter what they think? They're not going to show up in November anyway!

[sadoldgirl]

81. So you got this in the bag?

Just in case the indies and millennials won't vote,
you sure can count on anti-Trump republicans.
In that case you really need to brag anymore.

[grossproffit]

85. I've never been more excited to vote for a candidate!

Deal me in!

[nolawarlock]

92. I think they need to change that to ...

Busted Bernie.

[Lucinda]

93. Definitely worth reading the article and following it along to the poll itself!

Thanks much for this!

[salinsky]

96. You're welcome ...

... good news for Americans ...

... good news for Democrats ...

... bad news for Republicans ...

... bad news for Bernie or Busters.

[SidDithers]

95. The right hates Hillary. The fringe left hates Hillary...

Thankfully, there's enough people between those extremes to elect Hillary in 2016.

Sid

[workinclasszero]

99. That's what really pisses off both ends of the spectrum Sid!

[joshcryer]

100. The BOB movement is down 10 points from the PUMA movement.

I'm not even concerned.

[bigwillq]

102. I am not Bernie or Bust

I would never be "any candidate or bust"

[jamese777]

104. Latest Poll

Suffolk University/USA Today. April 20-24, 2016. N=1,000 likely voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.
"I'm going to run Democrat Hillary Clinton against the top polled Republicans and for each, please tell me if you would vote for Clinton or the Republican I name. Let's start with Democrat Hillary Clinton versus Republican Donald Trump:"
Hillary Clinton (D): 50%
Donald Trump (R): 39%
Unsure: 8%
Refused: 2%
http://www.pollingreport.com/wh16gen.htm

[Bettie]

105. If by "uniting"

you mean resigning ourselves to voting for someone whose slogan should be "NO! We Can't", then yeah, I guess we are "uniting".

If she is the nominee, I'll vote for her as I live in a swing state.

She doesn't need my money, she has Wall Street and Super Pacs for that.

I won't volunteer for her campaign.

But I'll vote for her with that sinking feeling that I've just put another nail in the coffin of the party I have been a part of since I was old enough to vote. The party of Roosevelt is dead and what is replacing it is to the Right of Reagan.

[salinsky]

111. You'll be alright ...

... vote for Hillary and stay engaged.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

And, I bet you vote enthusiastically for her reelection.

[Bettie]

112. I would be happy to be wrong

but, I don't think I am.

She's rich enough that she lives in her bubble of privilege and never has to so much as see one of the peons unless she's running for some office.

She said that TPP was the gold standard of trade agreements. TPP will destroy us.

And frankly, when she isn't running for something, we little people aren't even on the radar.

I do not believe for one second that she will take even a second to think of those who are not either corporate persons or the very, very wealthy.

[Andy823]

109. Bernie or Bust

Is brought to you by Karl Rove. The only ones who benefit from this stupidity are the republicans.

[pressbox69]

117. Truer words

were never spoken.