It's time to "call it"

[Nuclear Unicorn]

It could have been a hard fought contest of ideals, ideas and vision. Instead it became a shrieking demands of obedience in exchange for the presumed safety of the gilded cage of The Establishment -- except we get the cage and The Establishment gets the gild.

It could have been a debate about how to achieve the goals we once shared. Instead it became a timid retreat into every fable for failure put forward by the obstructionist opposition.

It could have been a rejection of unjust war, corporatism and lawless government. Instead we have been treated to hurricane force winds from all the hand-waving because not voting for blue corruption is supposedly a love of red corruption.

It could have been civil. Instead, every effort was made to brand those who have stood for decades fighting for civil rights and rallying around our beleaguered president for nigh-on 8 years into racist and sexists.

It couldn't even wait for the natural tides of a common foe to bring the unity that was supposedly being demanded. No, instead it became a cry to begin a countdown clock to blind, uncritical obedience; of party over principle; compliance over commonality.

Progressivism? Liberalism?

Yeah. Right.

It's time to call it.

[bigwillq]

1. Skinner says:

At this time it appears that we still have two candidates who are still in the race, and are still participating in elections in a number of states. Therefore it is still primary election season on DU.

At this point, the plan is for primary season to continue on DU until a candidate drops out or the voting is over -- whichever happens first.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910165

[Faux pas]

2. Thank you

[Nuclear Unicorn]

3. I'm not trying to be snarky but did you even read my OP?

[bigwillq]

7. Yes.

Just putting out the call it messgae in all threads that have call it in the title even if it's not about this call it

[Snotcicles]

9. People have seen so many "call it" post, they just assume. nt

[Nuclear Unicorn]

11. Understandable, which is why I didn't want to be snarky.

[Snotcicles]

20. That's respectful. nt

[Fairgo]

78. I'll call it...

Democracy, time of death...September 11, 2001.

[amborin]

13. HRC still needs 70% of the remaining delegates to get the nomination; it's not at all clear she can

the race continues

[JTFrog]

22. Right.

[TheBlackAdder]

54. Don't you love the FREELOADERS without a star next to their Username who complain/instruct the site?

.


Websites aren't free, and the guys who abuse the services the most, contribute the least financially!


It's like a party crasher who mooches off the food and entertainment and then complains about the host and guests!


They are nothing but disruptive and then in the end, one finds that they've also defiled the bathroom before leaving.


There are a shitload of complainers, about this site and its paying guests, on just this one OP alone.


.

[Orsino]

4. Thank goodness.

I was afraid we wouldn't see a new arbitrary date picked today.

[CrowCityDem]

5. It could have been civil...

instead, every effort was made to brand those who want to continue the slow yet real progress this country has made into corporate whores and false progressives who are actually Republicans.

It is time to call it. 'Progressivism' has a massive smugness problem.

[artislife]

8. Not even a month, and yet another h supporter on the fainting couch

What the eff, people?

[frylock]

18. Just another Brockboy.

[JudyM]

35. And, oh, the smugness is on *our* part... riiiiiight.

[rhett o rick]

12. We may have made some "slow progress" in a few areas of social justice but

we've taken giant steps backward in our voting system, our Prisons For Profits, the growing wealth gap, fighting homelessness, fighting for American jobs, accepting torture and war crimes as "some folks did stuff", our crumbling infrastructure, etc.

I'd say the smugness is from those that side with the banksters and pretend to care about those among the 99% that are struggling. Those that believe that bank profits come first.

You guys didn't want any challenge to your "chosen one". You wanted to "call it" before it started. And now, after disparaging the Left, you want to demand loyalty.

Progressives don't make good little authoritarian followers. Those that do will never understand.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

14. If someone doesn't like being accused of doling out favors in exchange for payments there is a

good way to handle the situation --

PROVE THEM WRONG

Either show how there was no quid pro quo and/or stop engaging in the sorts of behaviors that lead to such allegations.

[seabeyond]

34. Sanders sold his vote in 1991 to the Democrats. The problem is the fantasy of what Sanders isn't

while demanding different standards from Clinton.

[JudyM]

37. WTH?!!

[seabeyond]

40. What part of that is confusing to you. Perfectly legit, still politician.

Sanders supporters paint Sanders into a non politician, and he is no more less than a politician, just likes to pretend otherwise. While you have Clinton literally as a .... well, avoiding the vulgar, offensive anyway.

Then you guys expect a reasonable conversation. Not going to happen.

WTH? Sanders literally, sold his vote... to the Democratic party in 1991. Literally, sold his vote.

[JudyM]

41. We do not paint him as a non-politician. We see by his actions that he is non-corrupt.

While no one is perfect, the brazen corruption of Clinton goes beyond even most of the other unsavory corruption we see in many politicians. Really, using her position as SOS to arrange arms deals in "oh,my, how coincidental!" exchange for Clinton Foundation donations. Puhleeeze.

[seabeyond]

42. Of course you paint him in purity. Which is wrong. Sold support of F35. His job. In his state,

his voters, throws money at a bad deal. Politician. NRA.... representing his voters.

Politician.

[JudyM]

43. There is no purity, as I said. But there is also no comparison between these two candidates' morals.

[seabeyond]

48. I couldn't disagree with you more on the moral issue. Nt

[polly7]

53. Borrowed this from leftcoastmountains.

https://www.bernthemovie.com/

[JaneyVee]

36. Do you also accuse people of murder then ask them to prove they didnt?

Bernie needs to provide the evidence or shut up.

[JudyM]

39. The FBI is doing that for him...

This just in from DOJ:

"The FBI has stated publicly that it received and “is working on a referral (from) Inspectors General in connection with former Secretary of State Clinton’s use of a private email server."
http://lawnewz.com/important/doj-claims-unsealing-fbi-declaration-could-jeopardize-clinton-email-investigation/

Do you know what a "referral" is? That is a case the FBI is preparing to give to DOJ to prosecute --and as stated above, it is about *her use* of the private server, not about other people's actions, but *her use*.

And it is tied to the fact that she used it for the purpose of evading detection of quid pro quo activities.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

44. If they are holding a knife in their hand while standing over a stabbed body --

you kinda are allowed to ask.

[Dragonfli]

28. .

[Gore1FL]

30. There are less liberal sites if progressivism isn't your thing.

You shouldn't limit yourself DU if the rhetoric bothers you.

[Lizzie Poppet]

45. No money in it.

Just sayin'...

[redstatebluegirl]

51. Not to mention the ageism with this election.

The assumption that anyone who supports Hillary is an oldster who should just get out of the way gets really old sometimes.

[think]

6. Well said...

[Joob]

10. You know how when a Doctor tries to save a Patient but fails?

Well Bernie hasn't failed, so Democracy isn't dead yet! No point on giving up on the Democratic Party now.

[rhett o rick]

15. So far we are right on track. We knew that fighting the corrupt Establishment would

be a fight. But millions now know that they are not alone, that they don't have to bow down to a tough authoritarian leader chosen by the big banks.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. "Principles" are so 2003. n/t

[Nuclear Unicorn]

17. The pic in your sig makes me chortle.

[LonePirate]

19. The OP clearly has made no effort to understand why Hillary's supporters back her.

The entire post reads as a complete refusal to make an effort to understand the other side given the broadsides and accusations in the post.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

23. I know what has been put to me as defenses of Clinton by Clinton supporters.

I cannot be blamed if I take them at their word.

[LonePirate]

38. Except I've never seen anything on DU that even comes close to what you say you've been told.

You're playing loose and fast with opinions you consider to be facts.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

46. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't real. It just means you haven't seen it.

[longship]

21. For Christ sakes! Stop ringing that cockamamie bell!

It's like an infantile tantrum!!

Grow up!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

27. "It's like an infantile tantrum!!"

I agree.

[actslikeacarrot]

24. It's clear as a bell. If a "D" supports it, war is ok.

The anti war movement seems to be dead. At least in the democratic party.

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. Call it what.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

26. Call it "racist" "sexist" and "naive" and then demand it vote for your candidate.

[JaneyVee]

31. Im sorry, but who exactly called you racist and sexist?

[Gore1FL]

49. Examples may be found using the following google searches:

bernie racist site:democraticunderground.com

bernie sexist site:democraticunderground.com

[LWolf]

29. No.

"It" gets "called" at the convention. Not before. But thanks for your efforts to disenfranchise my state, and the rest who have not yet gotten to participate in the democratic process by casting their primary vote.

It amazes me how undemocratic so many Democrats are.

[dana_b]

32. +1

I gotta get out of here. All these people giving up and "calling it". It's not done until Bernie says it is done and he is taking it to the convention (thankfully!!).

I'm a Californian and I will vote for him and hopefully attend one of his rallies.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

56. I would like to politely suggest that you're misinterpreting the OP.

And towards that suggestion I offer the point that I agree with your reply vis-à-vis the other demands that we "call it."

[LWolf]

57. If you are not

suggesting that DU prematurely "call" the winner of the primaries, then you are right. I'm not only misinterpreting, I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

59. The "It could have been" portion of each paragraph refers to what I believe

Sen. Sanders campaign has meant for me. The "Instead" portion refers to the arguments I have read or had applied towards me by those who reject his campaign -- and it is those voices who have, unfortunately, carried the most weight in the nomination process.

[LWolf]

65. Read from that lens,

it's more understandable, to be sure.

I agree with the individual statements.

The "it" I'm calling is different than the "it" that has been called for repeatedly this week in GD .

[Nuclear Unicorn]

69. Thank you for allowing me to explain and giving me a fair reading.

[seabeyond]

33. First sentence. That is not true. I am so tired of the over the top, while suggesting reason.

[Gore1FL]

47. "It could have been a hard fought contest of ideals, ideas and vision." is the first sentence

Are you suggesting that Democrats can't have a contest of ideals, ideas, and vision? How is suggesting that we are capable of such a thing over the top?

[seabeyond]

50. My bad. The first two sentences. The contradictory hypocrisy and irony

It could have been a hard fought contest of ideals, ideas and vision. Instead it became a shrieking demands of obedience in exchange for the presumed safety of the gilded cage of The Establishment -- except we get the cage and The Establishment gets the gild.

It could have been.

Ya, maybe and interesting that.

shrieking demands of obedience in exchange for the presumed safety of the gilded cage of The Establishment

Defining others as... pretty much stops any ..... "It could have been"

[Gore1FL]

52. I am not seeing the contradiction or the failure in describing this nomination phase on DU. nt

[seabeyond]

58. shrieking demands of obedience in exchange for the presumed safety of the gilded cage of The Establi

Last edited Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:15 PM - Edit history (1)

If one perceives conversation in this manner, there will never be a .... could have been a discussion.

You do not see a failure? I do. I pretty much get how that language closes any kind of conversation, and yet.... here i continue to try.

[Gore1FL]

60. It describes my experience in GD:P and the HRC forum. YMMV nt

[seabeyond]

61. Well, I can say a whole lot of nasty, rotten things about Sanders supporters. Not gonna accomplish

a damn thing which is the point of the last three or four posts.

[Gore1FL]

62. You don't need to. It happens a lot already. Hence Nuclear Unicorn's OP. n/t

[seabeyond]

63. Nu uh. Not hence Nuclears OP. She gets to own the nasty all on her own. Lordy.

[Gore1FL]

64. It nonetheless describes the toxicity of DU and the weird desire for Skinner to "call it"

Because we all know that Skinner is the secret power behind the Democratic Party in this country.

[seabeyond]

74. And I, nonetheless, disagree. It was just another OP ridiculously dissing other Democrats.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

66. GD:P has been littered for days with thread after thread calling for Skinner to "call it"

You cannot deny this fact.

The subtext of each of those threads is to shutdown -- shout down -- all further debate and force obedience to the TOS requiring party unity in the general election. We are being told to set aside our principles, shut-up, get back in line and if we don't we ought to be banned.

And for what?

"Gotta beat the GOP!"

Beat the GOP with what? Someone Charles Koch and John Boehner could gladly accept as president.

That's the gilded cage.

[seabeyond]

67. "Beat the GOP with what?" To the point of purely ridiculous.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

68. To the point of purely ridiculous.

Hence the 3rd paragraph of my OP.

[seabeyond]

70. It is an absurd way to define Clinton. So, when people get on your ass, or others...

This might have something to do with it. One can pull the innocent act, but it just is not gonna fly.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

71. How should we define the hawkishness and the cozying up with the corporate set?

Or are we supposed to just pretend it isn't there?

[seabeyond]

72. Pretend ... Just as you pretend that Sanders is not sitting right next to Clinton.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

73. You try to castigate me for absurdities and then you post that.

[seabeyond]

76. I am not seeing a correlation.

[seabeyond]

75. Sanders sits right with Clinton and that is the absurdity of your argument. His is simply

a smaller scale in the state of Vermont, same thing. Same with the supposed "hawkish" votes you all go on and on and on about, pretending Sanders is all that in peace loving.

[closeupready]

55. DRAMA QUEEN ALERT!! DRAMA QUEEN ALERT!!

[Jackie Wilson Said]

77. Board owners would be cutting their profits in half if they got rid of all the

Bernie folks who are going to allow fascists to take over our government.

If I ran this place I wouldnt run them off, I would want the profits they provide too.

I have never wanted to run them off, I just want them to admit where they stand.

When I do that though they get a jury together and censor me.

That shit has to fucking stop.

[whistler162]

79. OK