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Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:45 PM

Why Do Progressives Cling to Hillary?

Good question. Good article. What do you think?
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How could so many progressives vote for Hillary over Bernie? … What does Hillary offer to progressives that Bernie can’t provide in abundance?

1. Hillary’s a proven winner?
Hillary progressives cling to this winner meme even though poll after poll shows that Sanders is running better against all the Republican candidates. Hillary’s favorable/unfavorable ratings according to the Real Clear Politics average of polls is -15.2%, while Bernie’s is +5.2%.

2. Hillary knows how to get things done?
You would think Hillary progressives would be concerned about many of her past accomplishments. If Hillary wants to take credit for the Clinton presidency when it comes to job creation, she must also shoulder the responsibility for dismantling “welfare as we know it,” the crime bill which helped make the U.S. the world leader in prisoners, and NAFTA which helped to gut good-paying industrial jobs.

3. Hillary is realistic, Bernie is not?
Bernie wants to mobilize the country into a “political revolution” for fundamental change. Hillary has no interest in such a movement. She sees herself as the change-maker-in-chief. It’s all about her ability to produce pragmatic changes, not about our ability to force such changes into existence.

4. Hillary is more experienced in foreign affairs?
It is hard to distinguish her record from the neoconservatives. She supported the Iraq War ... called for more troops to surge in Afghanistan than even the leading generals wanted ... engaged in nation-building in Libya and tacit regime change in Honduras ... wants a no fly zone in Syria that most generals say would require tens of thousands of support troops.
The primaries provide a classic “hawk vs dove” choice, and Hillary progressives are going with the birds of prey.

etc, etc
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-leopold/why-do-progressives-cling_b_9796016.html


27 replies, 2130 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 27 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why Do Progressives Cling to Hillary? (Original post)
KPN Apr 2016 OP
SFnomad Apr 2016 #1
lagomorph777 Apr 2016 #18
SFnomad Apr 2016 #21
lagomorph777 May 2016 #24
Beowulf May 2016 #27
Myrina Apr 2016 #2
Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #3
Orsino Apr 2016 #4
Downwinder Apr 2016 #5
Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #6
JaneyVee Apr 2016 #7
KPN Apr 2016 #20
uponit7771 Apr 2016 #8
Scuba Apr 2016 #9
rhett o rick Apr 2016 #10
djean111 Apr 2016 #11
Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #12
SheilaT Apr 2016 #13
EndElectoral Apr 2016 #14
Kip Humphrey Apr 2016 #15
procon Apr 2016 #16
lagomorph777 Apr 2016 #17
bvar22 Apr 2016 #19
kgnu_fan Apr 2016 #22
artislife Apr 2016 #23
Holly_Hobby May 2016 #25
beachbum bob May 2016 #26

Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:47 PM

1. 2156 vs. 1412 n/t

 

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:25 PM

18. So...reason No. 1?

Whoever has more votes at the moment must be better, because you don't want to bother studying their positions yourself?

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #18)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:39 PM

21. It takes some kind of arrogance to believe that if someone doesn't come to the same conclusion

 

you do, it's because they didn't bother studying the candidates positions.

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #21)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:14 AM

24. In lieu of reasons for your support, you only provided numbers.

I didn't make any assumption; only an observation. Based on your presentation, the numbers are your argument.

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #21)

Mon May 2, 2016, 09:28 AM

27. Your response was typical of Hillary supporters.

No mention of issues, no substantive debate over whether Hillary embodies progressive values or not, just numbers showing she's ahead. I'd say the real arrogance is your belief you don't need to engage in the issues because you have a big lead.

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:48 PM

2. Cult of personality.

n/t

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:52 PM

3. I doubt people who understand the original deffinition of Progressive do

neo-cons, DLC , Blue Dog Third Way neo-dems and disenfranchised republicans, sure. But not progressives, unless it's some new Orwellian bastardization of the term: Progressive.

Clinton is not progressive, she is a Conservative (at best). These are mutually exclusive.

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:53 PM

4. She seems a safe, Establishment choice.

She's terrifically popular, and will defeat whatever dumbass the GOP runs.

No, she's not really progressive, but she would win. Not that I have any doubt that Sanders would.

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:54 PM

5. I canceled all email from groups that support Hillary.

They are just begging for money.

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:54 PM

6. Tom Paine

 

A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. Thomas Paine

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:55 PM

7. I thought you guys said progressives wont vote for her?

 

Now they cling to her?

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:58 PM

20. You obviously have a hard time recognizing irony, and

obviously didn't read the article.

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:56 PM

8. sanctimonious much?

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:56 PM

9. In her defense, Hillary does know how to get things done.

 

Unfortunately, the things she would get done, shouldn't be done, at least if her history of wisdom and judgement are any indication.

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:01 PM

10. Not one progressive clings to Hillary. Anyone that clings to Hillary is

 

a conservative.

Here is a list of what progressive want and the Clinton/Conservative Wing is miles apart.
We want to Strengthening Social Security (e.g., raising the cap)
We are Opposed to job killing "Free Trade" agreements
We are opposed to fracking for oil company profits over people's water
We want to help college students afford college (telling them to get a job doesn't cut it)
We support making major corps pay their fair share of taxes
We want to end the unregulated domestic spying and making the NSA/CIA Security State have oversight.
Also end drone killing of terrorist "suspects" in foreign lands (100 innocents killed for each suspect)
We are for reducing the defense budget
We are for taking a hard stand against torture and indefinite detention.
We support the end of the militarization of our local police forces.
We want to end Prisons for Profits
We support legalizing marijuana esp. for medical use.
We believe in the need for funding rebuilding our neglected infrastructure.
We support single payer health insurance.
We want to see the regulation of Wall Street (e.g. reinstate Glass-Steagall)
We want to break up the big bank and media monopolies.
We are against American Exceptionalism and an excuse for neocon imperialism.

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:04 PM

11. Because "Progressive", like "Democrat", has become a very bendy concept these days.

 

Twisted like pretzels to fit a desired result.

Both concepts have been treated to a night in Procrustes' bed - chopped off and stretched to fit what the 1% want.

When I see a progressive crowing about supporting Hillary (and there a lot of wanna-be bellwethers these days!) - I don't think Hey! I am Progressive, and if another person tells me they are a progressive and they support someone who is for war and fracking and the TPP and other shit - maybe I should, too!

Nope. I just think - you are no Progressive, and Hillary is no Democrat. Wasted verbosity on their part.

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:12 PM

12. Because they're not progressives.

 

"progressive"
"Hillary Clinton"

Pick one...

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:14 PM

13. Tell me again about her pragmatic changes.

 

I especially love to hear the story of how she encouraged WalMart to let their employees unionize, proving once and for all that she is really on the side of the little people.

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:15 PM

14. I don't believe Progressive and HRC belong in the same sentence.

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:51 PM

15. Hillary,"the change-maker-in-chief." Let me tell you about Hillary's kind of change...

I hate change. I don't carry it; I haven't for a very long time now because it is largely worthless today. Besides, we should have done away with pennies and nickels 20 years ago!

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:22 PM

16. The author is biased and specializes in writing Anti-Hilary screeds.

When he's not extolling Bernie, his articles list are all about targeting Hillary, so why is such a partisan operative credible to anyone who isn't a diehard, uncritical Sanders fan? Yes, you Bernie fans are on the hunt for all these "I love Bernie" articles, and that's fine, but in your zeal, you're missing the reason Hillary is winning because you are so focused on finding the perfect candidate with the purest idealism.

Sorry, but if I don't seem too keen in joining your "revolution", but as confounding as it might be, like other folks who choose Hillary, the primary goal is not ideology, but getting a Democratic leader elected. That's the only way we stand a chance of advancing any sort of a progressive agenda whether it's a modest or radical legislative success.

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:23 PM

17. Progressives don't.

Regressives do.

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:36 PM

19. Low information "Reagan Democrats" (remember them?) cling to Hillary.

Certainly nobody who cares about the direction of the Democratic Party and the Working Class, the Poor, and Safety Net policies and values that made the Party GREAT would do that,
and nobody who understands the meaning of the word "Progressive" would either.
Of course, that word has been stolen and diluted to anything someone wants it to mean .

I'll never understand WHY someone not making a $MILLION/year would ever support her.
Back in the 50s and 60s, I used to ridicule without mercy people in the Working Class that voted for Republicans, and asked them why they would vote against their own financial interests.
NOW, the establishment Democrats want me to "unify", and vote against MY own financial interests.

Stranger, and stranger.
Further down the rabbit hole we go.
We live in interesting times. (An ancient Chinese curse).


[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font]
[/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center]
[/font]


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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:43 PM

22. Anyone who supports Hillary is NOT progressive. Look at her records and action. Wake up. nt

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 04:15 PM

23. What progressives?

 

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:46 AM

25. Because she's female n/t

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Response to KPN (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:48 AM

26. hillary has actually led something....and is not afraid to actually compromise

 

sanders has not with either case

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