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KPN

(15,585 posts)
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:45 PM Apr 2016

Why Do Progressives Cling to Hillary?

Good question. Good article. What do you think?
_________________

How could so many progressives vote for Hillary over Bernie? … What does Hillary offer to progressives that Bernie can’t provide in abundance?

1. Hillary’s a proven winner?
Hillary progressives cling to this winner meme even though poll after poll shows that Sanders is running better against all the Republican candidates. Hillary’s favorable/unfavorable ratings according to the Real Clear Politics average of polls is -15.2%, while Bernie’s is +5.2%.

2. Hillary knows how to get things done?
You would think Hillary progressives would be concerned about many of her past accomplishments. If Hillary wants to take credit for the Clinton presidency when it comes to job creation, she must also shoulder the responsibility for dismantling “welfare as we know it,” the crime bill which helped make the U.S. the world leader in prisoners, and NAFTA which helped to gut good-paying industrial jobs.

3. Hillary is realistic, Bernie is not?
Bernie wants to mobilize the country into a “political revolution” for fundamental change. Hillary has no interest in such a movement. She sees herself as the change-maker-in-chief. It’s all about her ability to produce pragmatic changes, not about our ability to force such changes into existence.

4. Hillary is more experienced in foreign affairs?
It is hard to distinguish her record from the neoconservatives. She supported the Iraq War ... called for more troops to surge in Afghanistan than even the leading generals wanted ... engaged in nation-building in Libya and tacit regime change in Honduras ... wants a no fly zone in Syria that most generals say would require tens of thousands of support troops.
The primaries provide a classic “hawk vs dove” choice, and Hillary progressives are going with the birds of prey.

etc, etc
__________________

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-leopold/why-do-progressives-cling_b_9796016.html


27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why Do Progressives Cling to Hillary? (Original Post) KPN Apr 2016 OP
2156 vs. 1412 n/t SFnomad Apr 2016 #1
So...reason No. 1? lagomorph777 Apr 2016 #18
It takes some kind of arrogance to believe that if someone doesn't come to the same conclusion SFnomad Apr 2016 #21
In lieu of reasons for your support, you only provided numbers. lagomorph777 May 2016 #24
Your response was typical of Hillary supporters. Beowulf May 2016 #27
Cult of personality. Myrina Apr 2016 #2
I doubt people who understand the original deffinition of Progressive do Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #3
She seems a safe, Establishment choice. Orsino Apr 2016 #4
I canceled all email from groups that support Hillary. Downwinder Apr 2016 #5
Tom Paine Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #6
I thought you guys said progressives wont vote for her? JaneyVee Apr 2016 #7
You obviously have a hard time recognizing irony, and KPN Apr 2016 #20
sanctimonious much? uponit7771 Apr 2016 #8
In her defense, Hillary does know how to get things done. Scuba Apr 2016 #9
Not one progressive clings to Hillary. Anyone that clings to Hillary is rhett o rick Apr 2016 #10
Because "Progressive", like "Democrat", has become a very bendy concept these days. djean111 Apr 2016 #11
Because they're not progressives. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #12
Tell me again about her pragmatic changes. SheilaT Apr 2016 #13
I don't believe Progressive and HRC belong in the same sentence. EndElectoral Apr 2016 #14
Hillary,"the change-maker-in-chief." Let me tell you about Hillary's kind of change... Kip Humphrey Apr 2016 #15
The author is biased and specializes in writing Anti-Hilary screeds. procon Apr 2016 #16
Progressives don't. lagomorph777 Apr 2016 #17
Low information "Reagan Democrats" (remember them?) cling to Hillary. bvar22 Apr 2016 #19
Anyone who supports Hillary is NOT progressive. Look at her records and action. Wake up. nt kgnu_fan Apr 2016 #22
What progressives? artislife Apr 2016 #23
Because she's female n/t Holly_Hobby May 2016 #25
hillary has actually led something....and is not afraid to actually compromise beachbum bob May 2016 #26

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
18. So...reason No. 1?
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:25 PM
Apr 2016

Whoever has more votes at the moment must be better, because you don't want to bother studying their positions yourself?

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
21. It takes some kind of arrogance to believe that if someone doesn't come to the same conclusion
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 04:39 PM
Apr 2016

you do, it's because they didn't bother studying the candidates positions.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
24. In lieu of reasons for your support, you only provided numbers.
Mon May 2, 2016, 09:14 AM
May 2016

I didn't make any assumption; only an observation. Based on your presentation, the numbers are your argument.

Beowulf

(761 posts)
27. Your response was typical of Hillary supporters.
Mon May 2, 2016, 10:28 AM
May 2016

No mention of issues, no substantive debate over whether Hillary embodies progressive values or not, just numbers showing she's ahead. I'd say the real arrogance is your belief you don't need to engage in the issues because you have a big lead.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
3. I doubt people who understand the original deffinition of Progressive do
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:52 PM
Apr 2016

neo-cons, DLC , Blue Dog Third Way neo-dems and disenfranchised republicans, sure. But not progressives, unless it's some new Orwellian bastardization of the term: Progressive.

Clinton is not progressive, she is a Conservative (at best). These are mutually exclusive.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
4. She seems a safe, Establishment choice.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:53 PM
Apr 2016

She's terrifically popular, and will defeat whatever dumbass the GOP runs.

No, she's not really progressive, but she would win. Not that I have any doubt that Sanders would.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
6. Tom Paine
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:54 PM
Apr 2016
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. Thomas Paine
 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
9. In her defense, Hillary does know how to get things done.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:56 PM
Apr 2016

Unfortunately, the things she would get done, shouldn't be done, at least if her history of wisdom and judgement are any indication.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
10. Not one progressive clings to Hillary. Anyone that clings to Hillary is
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:01 PM
Apr 2016

a conservative.

Here is a list of what progressive want and the Clinton/Conservative Wing is miles apart.
We want to Strengthening Social Security (e.g., raising the cap)
We are Opposed to job killing "Free Trade" agreements
We are opposed to fracking for oil company profits over people's water
We want to help college students afford college (telling them to get a job doesn't cut it)
We support making major corps pay their fair share of taxes
We want to end the unregulated domestic spying and making the NSA/CIA Security State have oversight.
Also end drone killing of terrorist "suspects" in foreign lands (100 innocents killed for each suspect)
We are for reducing the defense budget
We are for taking a hard stand against torture and indefinite detention.
We support the end of the militarization of our local police forces.
We want to end Prisons for Profits
We support legalizing marijuana esp. for medical use.
We believe in the need for funding rebuilding our neglected infrastructure.
We support single payer health insurance.
We want to see the regulation of Wall Street (e.g. reinstate Glass-Steagall)
We want to break up the big bank and media monopolies.
We are against American Exceptionalism and an excuse for neocon imperialism.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
11. Because "Progressive", like "Democrat", has become a very bendy concept these days.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:04 PM
Apr 2016

Twisted like pretzels to fit a desired result.

Both concepts have been treated to a night in Procrustes' bed - chopped off and stretched to fit what the 1% want.

When I see a progressive crowing about supporting Hillary (and there a lot of wanna-be bellwethers these days!) - I don't think Hey! I am Progressive, and if another person tells me they are a progressive and they support someone who is for war and fracking and the TPP and other shit - maybe I should, too!

Nope. I just think - you are no Progressive, and Hillary is no Democrat. Wasted verbosity on their part.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
13. Tell me again about her pragmatic changes.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:14 PM
Apr 2016

I especially love to hear the story of how she encouraged WalMart to let their employees unionize, proving once and for all that she is really on the side of the little people.

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
15. Hillary,"the change-maker-in-chief." Let me tell you about Hillary's kind of change...
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:51 PM
Apr 2016

I hate change. I don't carry it; I haven't for a very long time now because it is largely worthless today. Besides, we should have done away with pennies and nickels 20 years ago!

procon

(15,805 posts)
16. The author is biased and specializes in writing Anti-Hilary screeds.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:22 PM
Apr 2016

When he's not extolling Bernie, his articles list are all about targeting Hillary, so why is such a partisan operative credible to anyone who isn't a diehard, uncritical Sanders fan? Yes, you Bernie fans are on the hunt for all these "I love Bernie" articles, and that's fine, but in your zeal, you're missing the reason Hillary is winning because you are so focused on finding the perfect candidate with the purest idealism.

Sorry, but if I don't seem too keen in joining your "revolution", but as confounding as it might be, like other folks who choose Hillary, the primary goal is not ideology, but getting a Democratic leader elected. That's the only way we stand a chance of advancing any sort of a progressive agenda whether it's a modest or radical legislative success.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
19. Low information "Reagan Democrats" (remember them?) cling to Hillary.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:36 PM
Apr 2016

Certainly nobody who cares about the direction of the Democratic Party and the Working Class, the Poor, and Safety Net policies and values that made the Party GREAT would do that,
and nobody who understands the meaning of the word "Progressive" would either.
Of course, that word has been stolen and diluted to anything someone wants it to mean .

I'll never understand WHY someone not making a $MILLION/year would ever support her.
Back in the 50s and 60s, I used to ridicule without mercy people in the Working Class that voted for Republicans, and asked them why they would vote against their own financial interests.
NOW, the establishment Democrats want me to "unify", and vote against MY own financial interests.

Stranger, and stranger.
Further down the rabbit hole we go.
We live in interesting times. (An ancient Chinese curse).


[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font]
[/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center]
[/font]


 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
26. hillary has actually led something....and is not afraid to actually compromise
Mon May 2, 2016, 09:48 AM
May 2016

sanders has not with either case

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