2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDo we have a have huge split in this party too now?
Lots of Hillary and Bernie supporters going at each others throats this past week. I get emotions run high, and things get tense at the end, but's lets step back here. The goal is not have Trump or Cruz become president right? We need to come together here. That's not just the job of Hillary or Bernie, but their supporters too. Nasty stuff being flung across DU does not help the cause at all. We have much, much more that unites us then divides us. Let's remember that.
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tonyt53
(5,737 posts)
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)But the party is no more split in 2016 than in was in 2008.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)In 08 we had two candidates with few dividing issues,
if any. Obama just came across so much better, and he
has/had a lot of charisma.
This time the issues divide us, not so much the individual
person, although judgement and authenticity account
for it too. Mainly the issues though, at least in my case.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)votes.
Contrast it with 2008, Obama led by 91 delegates and less than 1% of the popular vote.
In real world terms, Sanders ran a distant second.
The party is not split.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and have been expecting a Hillary nomination ever since she conceded in 2008
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)They go back and forth between mocking people about how they don't need their votes and screeching about how they bear the responsibility of a Trump presidency.
artislife
(9,497 posts)very disappointed in the DNC.
But it is the Greater Seattle area, so we know what progressive is and what is not.
I have a few who think Hillary would be better than the alternatives but I have more who think we need to push the envelope and really create a space for a true progressive movement. This idea includes lots of things, but voting for h is not one of them.
We got $15 an hour, we pushed back against the WTO...and we overwhelmingly voted for Bernie Sanders...
I am very interested in seeing how it all unfolds.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Can we just dump the rest of the country now, plz?
artislife
(9,497 posts)They laughed and called me a rebel.
But they don't like Hillary either.
villager
(26,001 posts)Talk about wanting "free stuff!" America's ruling elites have been sucking up "free stuff" from around the planet for years -- resources, labor, etc.
And getting the rest of us to pay for it.
When that "free stuff" runs out, the "United" States will be (even more) unsustainable than it is now.
We will be separate, smaller polities by about mid-century or so...
seekthetruth
(504 posts)Sounders vs. Timbers to see which city will be the capital of Cascadia!
With all of the unity messaging coming from the DNC and supporters of Hillary, I just feel like I'm being asked to support someone who I am morally against. It's the environment and preponderance for war, for me. I cannot and will not support any candidate who comes out on the side of further fossil fuel extraction, and I can't support someone who voted for one of the most blunderous chosen wars we've ever engaged in. It's just that simple. I feel like a huge portion of the DNC is truly conservative, as compared to the Progressives who support Sanders. And I'm so sick of being called an idiot or traitor here on DU for not being willing to go against the things I firmly believe in to support someone who does not share my values. Why should I be coerced into voting for Hillary, when I believe she won't be any better, really, than a Republican?
I have a bad feeling about this fall. I think we're likely to end up with Trump, or even wory, Cruz. A large portion of us Sanders supporters will likely sit this one out. I think that Hillary supporters are very happy about seeing the first female president. I'm just sad because we'll see more fracking, and more unrestrained greed on Wall Street.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Loyalty to what, precisely? Certainly not my progressive principles...
Fairgo
(1,571 posts)I wil vote the path, not the person, who does that.
And it isn't HRC.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Brand new poster who signed up in 2013.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)
runaway hero
(835 posts)I have more time now. All I want to bring the party together.
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)Democracy is Coming to USA
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)are they for people or corporations?
HRC sided with corporations long ago. She is bought and paid for by the very forces that seek to crush working class and poor Americans EVERY DAY. Some of her supporters are voting based solely on gender, and having never had a woman POTUS, I get their loyalty. It's easier being a male to put my progressivism above all else.mbut in the end, she's still a corporatist and represents the status quo in which the 1% does great and everyone else gets fucked over.
Bernie is clearly for the people. And I have faith that our youth - who are getting screwed worse than anyone by the status quo - will continue to embrace his worldview. I try to be an optimist. My side may lose this battle, but we will eventually win the war for the soul of the Democratic Party.
The future of this country depends on it. Another generation or two of corporate control and this country is finished.
runaway hero
(835 posts)You are right. This is why Donald is so popular. People are sick of citizens united, banks, etc. But if Bernie could not do it, why not believe Hillary can.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Most will stay, some will go.
DU is a small bubble that has little affect on the outside world.
The party will be united around Hillary Clinton in November. The party is a big machine with tons of money. The party will be fine.
seekthetruth
(504 posts)The environment is a moral issue. Clinton's on the wrong side of it.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)"The goal is not have Trump or Cruz become president right?"
NO!
The goal is to change government policy from pro-corporate Neoliberal to pro-citizen Actual Liberal.
Newkularblue
(130 posts)I suspect we'll find out what shape the party is in post convention.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)The Democratic party does have some issues, but much of the anger at the party is from progressive independents.
Think about the history of the past 30 years: in 2000, many independent progressives voted Green (Nader) in the GE. ore, they argued, was too corporatist and not a huge improvement over Bush. That seems laughable now, but put it in the context of the time: Bush ran as a moderate; touted his great relationship with Dems in Texas; and was a "uniter not a divider." Then 9-11 happens; then we invade Afghanistan; then we are sold the notion that the war in Iraq is necessary. By 2004, the war in Iraq is getting unpopular, and John Kerry barely loses to Bush -- a sitting President in time of war. By 2006, independent progressives and Democrats are largely on the same side in their shared opposition to the Iraq war and George W. Bush. The Dems win the 2006 midterms big. In 2008, we are still united in our opposition to the war and any continuation of Bush policies. Many Democrats support Hillary Clinton, but many other Dems and progressive independents support Barack Obama. For the most part, Democrats have bee happy with Barack Obama, but many progressive independents felt he didn't end the war in Iraq fast enough; didn't make a better effort to break up the banks; didn't do enough to get single payer or public option; and didn't appreciate Robert Gibbs' references to "the Professional Left." We're at the end of an eight-year Democratic administration, and (just as in 2008), progressive independents do not feel that the mainstream Democratic party is progressive enough.
Will the Dems split? No. However, this may finally inspire independent progressives to a) actually join the Democratic party and encourage change from within or b) join the Greens and actually start forcing that party to organize in a tangible way.
The Republicans may be a different topic. If they lose this election, I suspect that the loosely affiliated group of ultra conservatives that identify as "the Tea Party" will split, and my guess is that, at least initially, they will convince many Congressmen in OK, TX, MS, AL, GA, SC and possibly others to switch to the new party.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)I am a Gen Xer who was barely out of high school when Bill Clinton got elected and the neo-liberal takeover of the Democratic party occurred. At the time I was struggling to keep my car running and a roof over my head at near minimum wage and it was still pre-internet, so I was not politically informed or active.
By 2000 I was in college had internet access and was getting politically informed. I realized what Bill had done in regards to signing right wing legislation so was no fan of his administration. I was also deeply offended by the Republican impeachment hearings, so was equally unimpressed with them. I considered myself left wing independent. I chose only to vote for candidates I was informed of, so mostly voted local. I left POTUS 2000 blank (I was not in a swing state.)
After the election theft, which I realized right away that it was, I started to swing Democratic if only to stand against the criminal Bush organization. The unconstitutional Patriot act pushed me harder and the illegal (by international treaty) Iraq invasion sealed the deal for me where my new alliances were to become, the Democratic party.
In 2004 I supported the Dean campaign, as he was strongly anti-war and had a more populist platform, which I felt was worth standing for. Even after he did not make it through the primary, I voted Kerry if only to get the war criminals out of office. After that election theft, which should have been fought more I found DU through Air America. I joined up, and the rest is history which could be searched here.
The Democratic Party is my party, but the neo-liberal wing and power structure was put in play by Boomers and is not and never has been the path I think the party should have. So I chose option A long ago, join the Democratic party and encourage change from within. I will continue on this path until the party is rid of the Third way/neo-liberal/Clinton types.
PTTP
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)Michael Moore once said if you got 11 friends together and went down to the local Democratic Party HQ, you and your friends could take over.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...is to get someone in the White House who represents our values.
For me, to say that our goal is "not to have Trump or Cruz become president" is absolutely pathetic. Not directing this to you, just pointing out that our goals should be positive, issues-oriented positions. Not just blocking the other side because our side is "less worse".
Not sure how that is going to play out for me in the GE. We'll see where I am living at that time, and how the state looks. If it won't make a difference (i.e. if the state is clearly going red anyway), I will have to look at the options.
At this point I am not at all sure that we have more that unites us than divides us. There seems to be a rather large contingent of Democrats who do not care that we have slid into oligarchy while no one noticed, and that the DLC / Third Way Democrats more than played their part in it.
tirebiter
(2,536 posts)
onecaliberal
(32,852 posts)Response to runaway hero (Original post)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)The media has no way to spin that the race isn't over and Clinton has been in the lead from day one. The ride has been so much smoother than '08.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)
RandySF
(58,799 posts)The "split" is not as great as the Internet would lead you to believe.
FSogol
(45,481 posts)Democrats will unite behind the candidate.
TSIAS
(14,689 posts)Most voters in exit polls say the primary has energized the party.
However, people like us who follow this stuff daily are bitterly divided, and there's not a whole lot we can do to bridge that chasm. I think a lot of Independents are split, as they didn't realize how difficult it would be for Sanders to pull this off.
I think most voters are under the mistaken impression that the candidates are basically the same on the issues, even though that couldn't be further from the truth.
