"We want something different!" ... Hillary.

[Aerows]

"That's why we are going to vote for the same DNC candidates we've been voting for since 1992!"

You guys want Clinton as the nominee? You will probably get her. Do you think what you will get is going to be anything different than what you have already gotten?

The trouble is that the decision to do the same damn thing over and over again affects all of us. She doesn't even pay lip service to the idea of holding her feet to the fire. She mocked Sanders voters in a recent interview, effectively saying that she will not do anything to court the voters that support him.
You honestly believe she is the harbinger of change and will fight the tough battles against Republicans?

If you do, I don't want the hear it come November 2016.

I sure as HELL don't want to hear it a year into her presidency in the event that she is elected.

I hope Bernie hangs in there until the last possible second, because there are so many things up in the air right now, anything could happen.

I don't want to hear one person yell Nader or blame the Left. Hillary makes Al Gore look like an attractive and exciting candidate.

I voted for Gore in Florida - George Bush was not my fault. The very clear evidence of fraud stank to high heaven there. The very clear evidence of election fraud during this primary makes things look even worse for the GE.

Say it with a straight face - George Bush won fairly and squarely. There was no evidence of election fraud. You know what happens when you ignore the past and excuse, even gloat, about it because in the present time you believe it aids your candidate? We aren't anywhere near the GE yet.

Keep doing the same thing and keep on expecting a different result.

[TM99]

1. Amen!

I couldn't agree more.

[agracie]

2. Well said.

[oasis]

3. Hillary will be picking the next 3/4 Supreme Court Justices.

So we should wish her the best.

[Aerows]

8. Hillary Clinton said on national television

that she thought there was room for certain restrictions on abortion. She's a johnny-come-lately supporter of gay marriage.

Forgive me if none of that gives me the warm and fluffy feelings since I'm both a woman and gay.

[dsc]

50. Bernie also was a Johnny come lately on marriage equality (not gay marriage BTW)

he opposed it, the opposite of being for it, as in he didn't want it, as late as 2006 and never renounced that opposition until after his state approved it. As to her position on abortion, it is the very outline of Roe V Wade (that would be the SCOTUS decision that legalized it). BTW the two appointees she had something to do with are excellent on those issues (Ginsburg and Breyer). She has repeatedly stated that Ginsburg is the model she has for a justice.

[Sparkly]

79. Again, you are taking that completely out of context.

https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/elections/candidates/president/hillary-clinton

[Aerows]

80. Excuse me but at this point it is awfully difficult to take

some of you folks seriously.

Look at what the Hillary defender directly above you asserted. "Bernie is also a johnny-come-lately on gay rights!"

You know what she said, I know what she said, and now I have TWO of you trying to bend the facts when you both know I made a damn good point.

Bernie Sanders has been for LGBT equality his whole life. Hillary Clinton opposed it vociferously up until a few years ago.

Clinton, by contrast, noted that she has gone on the record as in favor of some "late-pregnancy regulation that would have exceptions for the life and health of the mother."

However, Clinton stressed that she objects to the recent efforts in Congress to pass a federal law banning abortions after 20 weeks with no exceptions. "Under Roe v. Wade, it is appropriate to say in these circumstances" that abortion rights may be restricted, she said -- "so long as there's an exception for the life and health of the mother."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-answer-questions-about-abortion/

Would you like to witness it coming out of her mouth?

You can post as many articles and endorsements as you like, but to quote Maya Angelou "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

If either of you have a rebuttal that doesn't include taking words out of the mouths of people who endorse her, I'd like to hear it. "Jane, Dick and Spot think she's okay" doesn't cut it.

[Sparkly]

82. Excuse me, but I feel the same way.

Look at what is on the screen in the image. "Do you believe there should be NO restrictions on abortion?"

Do you understand that at this moment, there ARE restrictions on abortion? So this was a hypothetical about ZERO -- "up to the 9th month, on demand." We are no where NEAR that and nobody is suggesting we should be. But in the third trimester, up to the 9th month, there should be exceptions in cases of life AND HEALTH of the woman.

Now, if you think you have more insight into this issue, and Hillary Clinton's stance and work on it, than Planned Parenthood does, please share your wisdom with them.

Planned Parenthood Action Fund Endorses Hillary Clinton

Our Nation’s Best Presidential Candidate for Reproductive Rights, Hands Down

There’s no question: Hillary Clinton holds the strongest record on reproductive rights of all presidential contenders in not just this election, but in American history. She doesn’t just support women’s health — she has been a proactive leader on expanding access to women’s health care. In fact, no other 2016 candidate has shown such strong, lifelong commitment to the issues Planned Parenthood Action Fund cares about.

We live in an era where access to birth control, abortion, and services at Planned Parenthood are under unprecedented attack. With so much at stake, we can’t afford to have a president who continues these attacks — or who won’t stand strong and fight against them, no matter what.

We need Hillary Clinton, women’s health champion, in the White House.

[Aerows]

83. -_-

I posted the VIDEO.

If you are okay with having to get a government pass to have a say with what goes on with your body, that's up to you.

Yes, we have a ton of restrictions on abortion meted out by the various states, and the last thing we need is someone that is going to equivocate on unfettered access.

We already have a bunch of issues without a female candidate standing up and saying "Well, yes, I favor some restrictions."

So yes, as I said, it's extremely difficult to take some of you seriously.

[Sparkly]

85. You posted a video of a radio show or some nonsense. Listen to the question and the answer.

You can't be serious if you think Planned Parenthood, or I, or HRC is "okay with having to get a government pass to have a say with what goes on with your body."

I mean, really? This is not a serious discussion.

Do you know what the laws are? Do you know what she was asked? Do you know what her full answer was? Do you know how that relates to efforts to change the laws right now?

Maybe you want to go look around at PP and Naral, then get back to us.

Oh look -- NARAL endorsed HRC, too! So they really need to hear what YOU know about the issue and what Clinton said about it. Or do you not take them seriously, either?

http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/2016/hillary-endorsement.html

The next president of the United States will preside over a critical juncture in American history. Decisions made in the next several years will determine how women and families fare in the United States for decades to come. That’s why we need not just a worthy ally, but a champion with a demonstrated record of fighting for reproductive freedom and economic justice.

Hillary Clinton is that champion. She has spent her entire life leading on equal opportunity for women and families--as a private citizen, first lady, United States senator, and secretary of state. As president, Hillary Clinton will be a champion for all. That’s why NARAL Pro-Choice America is proud to endorse Hillary Clinton to become the next President of the United States.

[senz]

14. Yeah, that'll be payback time for Goldman Sachs.

Don't think for a second that it won't be. She is what she is. Don't try to sugarcoat her.

[oasis]

37. We know she'll pick the kind of judges which will meet with approval

by the Democratic Party. Goldman Sachs will have no bearing. If Hillary is as calculating as to make her out to be, she'll be making her choices with a second term in mind.

[senz]

75. Nonsense. She doesn't care about anyone's "approval"

Her lawless behavior shows that she cares about what she can get away with, and she and Bill take amazing risks in pursuit of money and power.

If Hillary wins the WH, what guarantee do we have that four years from now there will still be national elections? She runs with a very fast crowd, with billionaires and global power players who have been busily transforming the most powerful nation in the world from a 230 year-old democratic republic to a tool of wealthy, powerful interests.

I don't know how sincere and well-meaning you are, oasis, but if you are at all, I think you'd best step back and look at the forest, not the trees.

[Sparkly]

93. "She doesn't care" - "Her lawless behavior"

Good God. The rightwing has taken over here, costumed as the left wing!

[senz]

94. Because anyone who doesn't like sold-out corporatist one-percenters

is "rightwing." Uh-huh.

BTW, why do you use a 10 year-old photo of your candidate as an avatar? Do you have something against older women?

[Sparkly]

95. Anything that's rightwing is rightwing.

I liked the picture. Do you have a problem with avatars?

[senz]

96. Ohhh, so any criticism of Hillary is "rightwing"

Because Hillary is the very definition of "leftwing."

Up is down, left is right, front is back, long is short.



Don't do damage to the English language, 'kay?

[Sparkly]

97. Not what I said.

Sorry the rightwing spin didn't work better for ya.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend, 'kay?

[senz]

98. Wow.

I strongly suspect you've been baiting me, because there has not been an ounce of good faith or sincerity in anything you've said in this little exchange. It's just been an exercise in name-calling.

So rude, so childish. There is no reason under the sun why I should have to talk with anyone like you, ever.

Go mess with somebody else. You're on ignore.

[BootinUp]

4. She did an interview today that I recommend you watch (video)

[Aerows]

5. The thing with Clinton is that it

isn't what she says, it's what she *DOESN'T* say that is the problem 90% of the time.

I saw it earlier, BTW.

[JonLeibowitz]

6. "Senator sanders has been a passionate advocate for positions that HE cares deeply about"

I want to reiterate what you said, just with this example in mind. What is missing there is that she agrees with Sanders on the positions. She doesn't. And it is obvious to all of us why that is and why she chooses her words ever so carefully. You think she is saying she agrees with Sanders. She does not.

Also note she deflects the question on campaign finance (Citizens United was about me!!!) and trade wrt Trump / Sanders independent overlap.

[Aerows]

7. Precisely my point. n/t

[BootinUp]

10. TV interviews with any candidate rarely have the details you seem to be

looking for. Hillary's positions are there in her speeches and literature and the debates. I have to disagree with both posts above.

[JonLeibowitz]

12. Ultimately meaningless comment -- Hillary's positions in speeches/literature/debate are

not consistent with progressive values.

[BootinUp]

13. That assertion is an opinion. And the voters are disagreeing with you in substantial

numbers.

[pinebox]

42. No, 55% of Dems agree

in mostly closed primaries.
Open up those up and we all know what happens then when indies vote.

[dsc]

51. the indies can vote

they have to get up off their asses and join the party. In every state but NY they have to do this a mere month, at most, before the election. One month. Sorry but if you can't even do that, then you have no business whatsoever voting in our primaries. I will say that NY deadline is too early but other than that, this bullshit about closed primaries being unfair but caucuses where you have to spend hours debating party minuta are just hunky dory is ridiculous.

[Lizzie Poppet]

53. If a party wants a closed primary, fine. Let them pay for the election.

Not one fucking cent of public funding for a closed primary...

[dsc]

55. unless there are no other issues on the ballot they aren't paying for the election anyway

we had a bond issue and judicial races on ours and those races have to happen anyhow.

[Lizzie Poppet]

57. I'll reiterate:

That's what I mean: if a party wants a closed election, they don't get to piggyback on the publicly-financed one. They can pay for the entire cost of holding their little private party.

[dsc]

65. it is the state piggy backing on them

they have the scheduled election, it is the other issues that piggy back. In your world, school districts etc would have to pay for those local elections.

[Lizzie Poppet]

67. No it isn't. The state (that is, the public) foots the bill.

That's what I (rather obviously) meant by "piggybacking." The party leeches off the state to conduct what it insists be its own private business. Closed primaries are a private usage of government resources for private purposes. That needs to cease.

Moreover, school districts would have to do no such thing: they're government entities.

[Lizzie Poppet]

44. You're assuming all those Hillary voters prefer progressive values.

That's a hell of a stretch.

[BootinUp]

61. If we define progressive values as furthering the party platform

then the logic I used works fine. And if that doesn't make sense to you then I would be interested to know why. I would also point out that a comparison of Bernie's positions and Hillary's would reveal that they both agree on the direction we need to go on nearly all important issues.

[Lizzie Poppet]

62. Well sure: if you create a properly-constructed tautology, then it's logically consistent.

But if one doesn't accept the premises used in that construction, then it's meaningless. I don't, obviously, have the same definition of "progressive" that you do.

[passiveporcupine]

69. Running against Bernie forced Hillary's hand

on a lot of what she has on her platform.

Wait till she's elected in the GE and you will see a lot of it magically disappear.

Like the TPP. She claims now she's not happy with everything in it. If it still hasn't been passed by the time she takes office, it will be one of her first successes. She will be saying everything is fixed and it's the gold standard again. I won't be surprised if I see her pushing for the Trans Canadian Pipe Line again. And she won't let up on fracking.

Funny how Britain doesn't like the trade policies we are pushing. They say it's not fair to them. And it's not. It's not fair to Americans either, unless you count corporations as people. It is designed to help and protect corporations, even at the cost of a country's right to protect it's ecology and/or economy. It's just an add-on to Citizens United.

You do know that the tobacco company sued countries for adding health warnings to it's packaging, right? Tobacco use is a global epidemic that kills approximately six million people annually. It costs a lot of money to fight those law suites. Do you think that is "fair"? Wait till the TPP passes. You haven't seen anything yet.

The tobacco industry has presented legal challenges to countries, including Australia, Uruguay, and the United States, for enacting legislation meeting or exceeding FCTC obligations.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673250/

This is just the beginning of what trade policies will allow under the current rules of the TPP.

There are a lot of policy differences between Hillary and Bernie, but because of her prevaricating, unless you are aware and watching for it, you might just miss it. She knows how to use legal speak to not say what she really knows she cannot say.

[BootinUp]

70. "There are a lot of policy differences"

That can be argued as a strong point for Hillary or Bernie depending on your point of view. In my view, Bernie promises way more than he would ever deliver.

Look, they both present their campaigns in the best light, and that means they both highlight what they think are the most important points in their favor. I am glad Hillary ran a smart campaign and that Bernie played a roll in its development. I think we all will be when its all said and done.

[mindem]

52. Wrong

I am sick and tired of hearing the term "the" voters when it is really "some" voters. Even the majority is only "some". Don't give any bullshit about majority rules - no one is obligated to cave into an ideology with which they don't agree.

[JudyM]

76. Oh, puhleeze.

[senz]

15. Well said, Jon.

She's slippery and false.

[akbacchus_BC]

20. But better than trump!

[senz]

21. lol, that's ALL you can say for her.

That's the best ya got.

[akbacchus_BC]

23. Prety much. She is a goldwater girl. She has no interest in the working class

and has already admitted that she is a party of no to medicare. Is that the best you have?

All am saying is I prefer her than Donald Trump but Hilary is no leader but better than trump. Lesser of two evils is all you have!

[senz]

24. I don't support evil, I support good: I'm for Bernie.

And if you think Hill's faults boil down to being a high class ex-Goldwater Girl, then you don't know anything about her.

[akbacchus_BC]

27. I admire your loyalty! Enough said!

[Punkingal]

49. This is all so difficult, Senz.

I love my Bernie, but I am going to have to vote for her in November.

[senz]

68. If you give up now, you increase the probability of it.

She hasn't won yet. She does not have the delegate count. If Bernie does really well in the coming primaries, we will have a contested convention. Contested conventions are unpredictable.

If Hill gets indicted for even some of her previous criminal acts, her candidacy would fall apart. It would hurt her in the primary and destroy her in the GE.

The DNC wants to run an establishment (Third Way) Dem, and if it looks to TPTB that Hill could get a criminal indictment, they will want to substitute someone else. Lo and behold, over the past 2 or 3 days, Biden's public profile has leaped upward. Was discussing this yesterday with another very good middle aged female Bernie supporter: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017363778 It was also discussed more broadly in another thread infested with Hill's Vatican insult crew.

So it's not a done deal, Punkingal. If you believe in what Bernie is fighting for, it's worth fighting on. Just a few more weeks. So much hangs in the balance.

[Punkingal]

71. No way am I giving up.

I just get demoralized sometimes. I donated today and I will continue to work for Bernie.

[senz]

72. Wasn't sure, but am glad to hear it.

As someone who is by nature (i.e., involuntarily) a moralist, I become demoralized every time evil gets the upper hand in any situation, and that is the lens through which I most often view this primary. I was hoping Bernie could somehow overcome ridiculously high odds that were based on, among other things, dirty campaigning and media undercutting, to get the nomination more directly, but what's notable is how strong his campaign has been. It speaks to the deep disgust the country has been feeling about the establishment politics that took hold after the Reagan revolution. Bernie unleashed that. It's a real force and he tapped into it and gave it a voice.

Bernie's life has been devoted to working for a more just, ethical, and democratic society. He entered the campaign in hopes of pushing Hillary toward progressivism and launching a political revolution. (I think most of us know by now that Hillary has nothing but contempt for progressives or anything that would diminish the power and wealth of herself and her buddies. She is hopelessly corrupt.) In the beginning, Bernie did not seriously think he stood a chance at the presidency. After a few months, he realized that he did stand a chance and, if he won the primary, could effect real, lasting change for the better in this country in a way that no senator can do.

At this point, Bernie still has a chance at the presidency and a much, much bigger chance at affecting the Democratic Party platform and solidifying a new progressive movement, his "political revolution." So even though it feels demoralizing, things in this country are closer to getting better than they have been since Reagan.

So it's not lost, Punkingal. In fact, it's very hopeful, if we can keep Bernie's numbers and strength as high as possible.

[Punkingal]

84. Well you certainly make me feel better.

[senz]

89. Well thank you, Punkingal.

That makes me happy.

[aikoaiko]

86. She would do well to not speak about Bernie.

That interview is a perfect example of why some Bernie supporters cannot vote for her.

[BootinUp]

88. FFS - Try a steam bath or something. nt

quote:
"Star Member aikoaiko (24,080 posts)
86. She would do well to not speak about Bernie.


That interview is a perfect example of why some Bernie supporters cannot vote for her. "

[aikoaiko]

90. Maybe so.

There was something in the way she speaks about Bernie and his campaign that made me have a visceral reaction.

[Dragonfli]

9. K&R

[Kablooie]

11. Trump is different. Be careful what you wish for.

[senz]

16. If you don't want trump, fight to get Bernie the nomination.

He beats Trump by an insurmountable margin.

Otherwise, blame yourself.

[msongs]

18. he cant even beat hillary nt

[Jack Bone]

17. A little Saturday morning....

K&R

[akbacchus_BC]

19. Aerows, I understand where you are coming from. This year is worst than ever before. In 2008, you

all had great people running, Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Obama and John Edwards. I had so much hope for Edwards as a that time I never thought Mr. Obama would get the nomination. Edwards effed up.

Fast forward to 2016, who would have thought that Bill O'malley would not gain any traction? You all ended up with Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Sanders. Frankly, I like Mr. Sanders but even though young people like him, he is still losing in the primaries to Mrs. Clinton.

It is the same old over again, if you do not vote for Mrs. Clinton then Trump may get elected. Worst year in politics in the US. I just hope a Democrat gets elected. A republican in the white house would be horrible for the US and the world. One republican wants to build another wall when the US was adamant that the Berlin Wall should come down. I just hope that if Mrs. Clinton wins the nomination that democrats will vote for her. Trump is not Presidential and as for Cruz, he is worst!

[senz]

22. If you don't want trump, fight to get Bernie the nomination.

He can beat Trump by an insurmountable margin.

Otherwise, live with what you get.

[akbacchus_BC]

25. The odds are against Bernie. Social media feels he is too old

and Americans had no idea who Bernie is. Now they are beginning to know him, however all the Senators on the Dem side have endorsed Hilary, they cannot rescind their endorsement now. I admire Bernie, I feel he is on the right track. What I cannot understand is how on earth Bill O'Malley never gained any traction! He is young, pretty much saying the same things that Bernie is saying and he just went by the wayside.

Just goes to show that Democrats are in a fervor of getting a woman elected and they want a woman. In the end, if Mrs. Clinton gets elected, Americans will be better off as she will continue President Obama's legacy and lets hope that the Senate and the Congress work with her as opposed as to how they fought hard to work against President Obama

[oldandhappy]

28. Agree with you

I think O'Malley got caught in the media blitz/noise for Trump and the total manipulation for clinton.

[akbacchus_BC]

30. You know, I kept wondering why the media was so much promoting Trump!

The media is now responsible for Trump being the Republican nominee. They thought he was a joke and focussed on him to the detriment of an honest person like Kasich. He is a moderate republican but man that line up was hard to choose from.

I feel Debbie Whatever her name is Shultz is responsible for pushing Hillary and Hillary is not that much younger than Bernie. Do not know, but some how this time around, this election season seems manipulated.

If we get Hilary, so be it. Better her than Trump or Cruz!

[oldandhappy]

32. yes, totally manipulated.

Super delegates were signed up before the campaign season began.

[senz]

29. You are not well-informed. Millenials (social media) love him.

There was no "Bill O'Malley" running. The name was Martin O'Malley. He was not saying the same things as Bernie.

Thinking Democrats want more than "a woman." Hillary is far to the right of President Obama and they are very far apart on foreign policy, Obama preferring a cautious approach, Hill preferring reckless adventurism in third world countries with no consideration for long-term effects. She has wreaked havoc in three countries. Obama is much closer to Bernie on foreign policy, and on other areas as well.

Republicans hate Hillary; they will not work with her in Congress. Bernie was worked well on both sides of the aisle.

We will do much better with Bernie as our nominee.

[akbacchus_BC]

31. I made a mistake with the first name. Gosh, you are being petty now!

All I want is for not a republican to win, imagine trump and cruz, the world would think the US has gone crazy. All am saying is I would prefer Mrs. Clinton to win than those crazies.

I agree with you, I like Bernie too, but it seems as though he is not gaining the nominations he need to be the Dem nominee. You know there is a process regarding nominations. Most of the high level dems have already endorsed Mrs. Clinton.

[pinebox]

43. Social media feels Bernie is too old? Is that why he crushes their polls?

Tell us more.

[oldandhappy]

26. Keep doing the same thing and keep on expecting a different result.

Yep! You said it all very well. That last line has been on my mind all day.

[pansypoo53219]

33. lurching like kerry. but no 'plan', just a lady card.

[karynnj]

38. Kerry would have been an excellent president and he ran

A good campaign, with almost no media support, in a time when alternative media was not what it is now.

He is, in my opinion, the best statesman of his generation, even though he will never become President. He deserves better than your "lurching" comment.

[Raine]

34. Totally on point! nt

[Onlooker]

35. You supported the loser,

But don't judge those who supported the winner. They're not idiots, and you're not a genius. A good libersl case can be made for both Hillary and Bernie.

[Ed Suspicious]

36. Not a very good one.

[randome]

40. Yet she voted with Sanders > 93% of the time.

But I guess only Bernie Sanders is pure enough to be considered Progressive. I don't get that kind of thinking. I really don't.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[stevenleser]

54. Bingo. nt

[senz]

73. Votes made in anticipation of running for president

are not very convincing. We learn much more about Hillary from her history. She is the polar opposite of Bernie Sanders.

[randome]

74. No. She isn't. To hear you tell it, she is the anti-Christ.

Much like the GOP tries to paint Obama. People are more complex than that and it's too bad you can't see that. Which is why you will forever be fuming about Sanders losing. That's no way to spend your time, here or anywhere else. The constant pessimism and remorse is a cancer on rational thinking.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[senz]

81. No, but fully aligned with powerful, destructive forces.

You think this is just a win/lose sport for us? You think all we wanted was for "our guy" to win the nomination, and now we're disappointed and angry at the candidate who is close to beating "our guy?" Just rah-rah team? To get a better perspective on where I, and other progressives, are coming from, this small comment I made earlier today might help: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511868768#post72

But as for Hillary herself, after enthusiastically supporting Bill in '92, I began to feel twinges about Hill later in the 1990s but ignored them. I was surprised at her obvious carpetbagging to NY and her IWR vote, but I let that go. But it was the 2008 campaign that made me realize what a low and despicable person she is and cinched my support for Obama (which continues). Later, I learned about the things she did as SoS and her various alliances. Add to that her lies, hit list, lack of values, lack of an ethical center. As far as I can see, she has no conscience and no concern for anything or anyone beyond herself and her power.

President of the United States? That? If Bernie can't overcome her or if she is indicted, let's hope the DNC finds us someone who is at least psychologically normal. We probably can't hope for anyone who places the interests of American people above those of corporations, but I'd be willing to settle for at least minimal signs of conscience.

[pdsimdars]

39. K & R --- to be sure.

[Demsrule86]

41. Nader was to blame

The third party candidacy doomed Gore.

[riderinthestorm]

46. That myth has been thoroughly debunked. Gore has all the blame

http://disinfo.com/2010/11/debunked-the-myth-that-ralph-nader-cost-al-gore-the-2000-election/

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/6/1260721/-The-Nader-Myth

[Demsrule86]

47. Again the math

If one looks at the vote tallies in Florida, it is clear that Nader took enough votes to allow the GOP to steal the election...close elections are always at risk of theft.

[riderinthestorm]

48. You didn't bother to read the links I see

Not my problem if you choose to remain ignorant.

[Demsrule86]

58. I did read the links

I just don't agree...it all came down to Florida...had Nader not been on the ticket, I believe Gore would have won by enough margin the GOP could not steal the election. I do think Florida messed up too..with the Buchanan situation. Some of those votes were meant for the Dems.

[riderinthestorm]

63. Over twice as many Dems voted for Bush. Nader voters weren't even close to offsetting that

And gee, you must be a speed reader - you read both analyses and responded back to me in 9 minutes with your first response...

[Faux pas]

56. Kicketty Kickin'

[whatchamacallit]

59. Haven't you noticed the single guiding principle of Hillary supporters?

[Ferd Berfel]

60. She wants Status Quo

which these days means DLC, Blue Dog Third Way RW Corporate Neo-Dems

[bahrbearian]

64. Picture of Hillary fighting hand to hand with Republican leaders.

[Aerows]

66. I'll raise you:

[HDSam]

78. This came to mind

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

- Albert Einstein

[Hiraeth]

87. I don't think a lot of HRC supporters WANT a different result which is why they

keep doing the same thing. They are ~okay~ with the way things are.

[emsimon33]

91. "Hillary Clinton, the U.S.'s Margaret Thatcher," a friend often says to me.

[JEB]

92. There it is. Plain as fucking day. Excellent post.

Thanks for the post.