"Jill Stein: The Democratic Party 'fakes left,' marches right"

[Vote2016]

It is not too late to avoid the "marches right" part of this astute analysis by a real liberal progressive who shares the values of FDR's Democratic Party:

Washington (CNN)There's an independent senator -- a democratic socialist, no less -- with climate change on the brain making a real play for the Democratic nomination against Hillary Clinton, who exudes establishment politics...."Forward movement is a good thing, but I always include that it's not enough, and we have to have a base where we can truly build," Stein told CNN. "That cannot be done inside of the corporate, establishment political parties." ..."I think we share very similar values and visions," Stein said. "I just happen to be working in a party that supports those values and those visions."

Sanders has made changing the Democratic Party a key pitch to his voters. Stein's disdain for the Democratic Party is key to hers.

"I have long since thrown in the towel on the Democratic and Republican parties because they are really a front group for the 1%, for predatory banks, fossil fuel giants and war profiteers," Stein said.... "The party allows progressive faces to sort of be their figurehead for a little while, but while it does that, while it sort of fakes left, the party continues to march toward the right," Stein told CNN.

Stein said the Democratic Party, along with the Republican Party, represented corporate interests and has not allowed progressives to take charge. The story she told of the Democratic Party was one of a party that had used its "kill switch," in the form of packed primary days, like Super Tuesday, and super delegates, to take down "very good and principled campaigns" over the decades.
These progressive campaigns "are invariably sabotaged by the (Democratic) party," she said.

[leftofcool]

1. More bashing of the Democratic Party.

Does Jill know that "super delegates" was a Tad Devine creation?

[Attorney in Texas]

3. Defending FDR's values against a domestic neoliberal/foreign neocon collapse in values isn't bashing

the Democratic Party; it's defending it.

[Ferd Berfel]

38. Damn Well Said!

If you listen to Hartmann you will have heard his say over and over again that you need to get involved. That you need to join your local Democratic party to get inside to change the party because that's what the Tea Baggers did on the right to the republicans.

It should be obvious that this is exactly what the disenfranchised republicans have done to the Democratic Party. Beginning with the DLC sale of the Party to Koch Bros (and others) in '85 by the Clinton's (and others) - a few months before Hillary was appointed to the board of Wall Mart.

Our tent has been too damn big. A life long republican can switch and say "well I'm a democrat now', the party says great and moves on. But no one questions: Did this republican all of a sudden renounce their previous life long held belief that a woman does not have the right to choose, had an Epiphany, and magically is just fine with choice now? That republican has supported privatizing Social Security and ending Medicare all their life (or career), but they're magically now a democrat... who STILL is working towards killing both, and did they renounce the neo-liberal ideology of Cheney, Bush, Rove, or did they brin that along with them also...and so on and so on.... This is how the Democratic Party of the Working Class and Middle Class has become a caricature of it's former self and morphed into the democrat party or Neo-Dems

I've been having the exact same arguments here, with Clinton Supporters that I have in my private life with my Republican friends and acquaintances. The same damned arguments with people claiming to be democrats. It's a step through the "looking glass".

[Baobab]

76. There could not be a clearer choice

[SCantiGOP]

103. Yes, there is a choice

1-A progressive, experienced Democrat who can win and help move this country forward.
2-A well-intentioned but unelectable socialist who cannot win.
3-A Republican President.

Not a hard choice.

[tonyt53]

104. Bingo, but try explaining that to Bernie-ites

[Baobab]

116. No, she wont win

Another reason is the problem described in my sig - which is a big one and its one which is non-negotiable for millions of people.

Hillary was lying about the real reasons for her "healthcare plan".

[SCantiGOP]

119. I love cognitive resonance

Since Hillary can't guarantee single payer, we won't vote for her but will end up with a Republican who opposes any type of government health care and wants to let the free market decide who gets covered and who doesn't, who lives and who dies.
That makes so much sense.

[vintx]

113. THIS!

[Triana]

121. +10000 n/t

[840high]

137. +100

[Enthusiast]

170. Huge +1!

[Katashi_itto]

9. The New Democratic Party has values!!!???

Last edited Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:30 AM - Edit history (1)

DNC's Motto could be: "We're Evil, just without the conviction" [/i

Maybe "Ruthless, but without a spine"

Looking at DNC now this quote comes to mind often.

"Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan, and yet you are nothing. In the end you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone."

[GoneFishin]

35. "Sure we'll stab you in the back, you just won't be sure it was us."

[Katashi_itto]

39. Exactly. Then they will scream why arent we supporting them?

[w0nderer]

102. Best 'people' party corporate money can buy n/t

[rhett o rick]

24. She is trashing those that have sold their souls for a little gold.

Clinton $150,000,000 worth of gold. Blatantly taking cash from banksters that she supports. But her fans love her for her toughness not empathy. She is tough on Iraq, drug crime, welfare recipients, cancer patients needing medical marijuana, etc. She wants to keep the min wage below a living wage because that's how tough she is.

[Armstead]

48. But she and Bill were dead broke after leaving the WH

She said so.

She understands the pressures that average Americans have to contend with.

Just in case:

[rhett o rick]

50. So since then they manage to amass about $10 million per year. For some pretty damn

good speeches.

[Armstead]

52. Great speeches...Transcendent speeches.....Divinely inspired verbiage

[m-lekktor]

57. a well deserved bashing and why would you assume Jill Stein is pro Tad Devine?

She's a member of the Green Party not a Bernie partisan.

[silvershadow]

144. Tad Devine was around just after the 1968 convention when they were created? nt

[leftofcool]

151. Try research, it helps

[ronnykmarshall]

168. No shit ...

History is not a strong point of the previous poster

[Fantastic Anarchist]

163. How is it bashing to address that policies have drifted towards a philosophy that is neo-liberal?

Which is fundamentally conservative?

[ronnykmarshall]

166. She can go to hell along with Tad Devine

[Bettie]

177. Wrong is wrong

no matter who created it.

I didn't like the concept in the last cycle, still don't. It would be wrong even if my preferred candidate had them all signed on.

It's like caucuses. Not a good system no matter who wins.

[Betty Karlson]

178. But this "bashing" (a.k.a. criticism) is well deserved.

Third Way is a dead end. The 20th century is over. Stop partying like it's 1999. And stop campaigning like Millennials have never had the right to vote.

[Skink]

2. That's why we don't let them vote in are primaries either

Bunch of hippies

[grossproffit]

7. If they want to vote in our primaries they need to register.

[Baitball Blogger]

16. Where their registrations will most likely be switched to Republican before the election,

in counties where it counts. As we have seen time and time again.

Make no mistake. Many people who are registered as No Party or are Independents would register as Democrats if it weren't for the strong march to the right.

By now, anyone can see why. For a Centrist Rhodes Scholar to deregulate banks and mortgages, expecting Republicans to create jobs for the poor to pay for their easily obtained mortgages is just sheer ignorance. This is the flaw of neo-liberals. They can claim they are trying to work with Republicans, but that rings hollow since most of us are aware that the Republican party's intent is to enrich their cronies and campaign donors. That is their end game. So any Democrat who plays along with them at this late juncture has to know that they are only making our situation worse.

[rhett o rick]

25. Blaming the victim is typical of the Clinton/Conservative Wing. Those that get disenfranchised

shouldn't get disenfranchised.

[bahrbearian]

29. Yea , they not Real American either! Let them go back to where they came from.

[Lizzie Poppet]

41. If you're party wants to have closed primaries...

...pay for them yourself. Every last cent of the cost...

[CorkySt.Clair]

4. Who?

[grossproffit]

8. Exactly.

[moriah]

5. Welcome to DU!

Be aware that advocacy of third-party candidates when a Democrat is running for that office is a TOS violation even during primary season. The only exception was really crafted to allow advocacy of Bernie Sanders in the House and Senate as he caucused with the Democrats despite the I beside his name, and had far more support in the state of Vermont than any Democratic candidate ever got.

Advocacy for Jill Stein and other contenders besides someone who is campaigning to be the Democratic Nominee for President is not what DU is about, per the Terms of Service.

[Skink]

10. yeah get in line

[moriah]

20. It's not my line, it's Skinner's line.

There are many other forums on this vast Internet, and many are especially crafted for voices more Progressive than the Democratic Party.

I didn't alert, I was polite, this poster was relatively new. You, on the other hand, having experienced multiple years and a TOS that hasn't changed much on that note since I've been a member, should be aware of that line not being mine.

Ideally, I would have ranked choice voting nationwide for the General Election. People could vote their conscience instead of their fears, and not have their vote go against them or be a futile gesture. It would probably break Washington gridlock because it would end up shattering the two-party system. That's the revolution I have wanted to see happen all my life, and I have signed petitions and attempted as much advocacy for it as I find opportunities.

But I am also not going to wait for that revolution, because by doing so I would be refusing to accept the reality of our current election process. Reality sometimes sucks.

[sharp_stick]

124. There are plenty of places to discuss

your favorite candidate that is not a Democrat. I suggest you find one, you'll be a lot happier.

[corkhead]

14. "Welcome to DU"

NOT!

[LWolf]

112. This article does not advocate for a 3rd party candidate. nt

[djean111]

6. Once Hillary realizes that bernie's supporters know her claiming to move even a millimeter to the

left is just pandering and lying, she will proudly and openly march to the right.
The Third Way really has taken over the Democratic Party. When the head of the DNC openly campaigns for and supports her GOP cronies down here in Florida - time to face facts.

The only reason the DNC tolerates Bernie is because they still think he can hand over all of his supporters, his money, and his organization to Debbie and Hillary. They were using him all along.

[dreamnightwind]

11. I think it's to hold together her current base

who need to maintain the conviction that they are supporting a progressive (despite all evidence to the contrary) so they can feel ok about voting for her.

It doesn't take deep conviction to get votes, just a sprinkling of it so they have a rationale when they vote. Most of them are just voting for a team (team Democrat or team Woman or team Clinton) anyway, so a whiff of leftiness gets it done.

[BernieforPres2016]

15. I think you're right

If Hillary dropped the pretense of being to the left of center it would cause some serious cognitive dissonance in some of her base who would be horrified to face the reality that they are really Rockefeller Republicans.

[Baitball Blogger]

18. LOL!

We might need to add another support group on DU.

[dreamnightwind]

21. well I think many of them believe what is convenient to believe

so they don't have to change their me-first lifestyle.

I don't know that they adhere to much of an ideology, they just like a patina of leftiness in their portfolios, so they can be assured they are good people who care about things.

[BernieforPres2016]

23. Commonly known as "limousine liberals", more recently "latte liberals" nt

[Dragonfli]

98. I have understood this a long time, most are comfortable financially (not necessarily rich) but

able to always pay their bills, save for retirement, usually live in the 'burbs and own at last two cars (plus a starter car for their teenage child old enough to drive).

They like to consider themselves politically correct, believe in equality enough to support it verbally (while feeling they deserve a badge for doing so) but would never put themselves in harms way for the rights and equality that sound as good to them coming out of their mouths as their own flatulence smells to them coming out of their own asses (they detect a whiff of roses when they breath it in).

They ARE moderate Republicans (like the ones that no longer exist outside the Democratic party), I remember back when most Republicans were sane and many (certainly not the Goldwater or John Birch types though) believed in civil rights, choice and other equality issues, they were different in that they believed in Republican fiscal values, the old bootstrap philosophy made popular by Ayn Rand (even if the Democratic version would never admit it).

The party is going through a realignment, as parties do over the course of decades, (just as the Republican Party once was the anti-slavery party but have been quite the opposite for a long time now) - The Democratic party is changing into the moderate Republican party of my childhood (except they are far more hawkish than the old Rs used to be). There is no more room for the new Deal, The Great Society, or the working class in this newly realigning party.

The Republicans have also been going through a realignment during the same 30 year period as ours has. One of the reasons one no longer finds Moderate Republicans in the Republican Party, but only in ours, under their new (D) banner. Their realignment has already turned them into the modern equivalent of the John Birch Society wackos, but they are not finished yet, just as we are not finished yet.

Once the Realignments of the parties are complete, ours will be fully Republican, with no vestige of economic morality left, even in the "fringe" that was once the heart of the party. The Republicans in their completion will be the Fascist US party (they of course like the brand name they already have, Republican sounds so much like a "Republic" (a form of representative democracy this country was first created to be, and if one believes the bullshit group psychosis it still is), so they will never call themselves Fascists).

I suppose the question to the average Citizen is, do you want to be a Republican (under a new brand name)
A Fascist (under a new brand name)

Or hope the worst of the newly realigned parties self destructs, leaving room in our two party system for some form of labor party like the Democratic party once was, with a deep belief as well in full equality for all of us and a livable, for our type of mammal, biosphere? (personalty I hope the one turning fascist is the one that self destructs, but that is just me).

It has to be more than a labor party, it must also include equality and unity for moral reasons of course, but also for a very pragmatic reason. We need to repair a biosphere so terribly damaged that it will take (all hands on deck in unity) if it is to matter enough, and in time, so that it may continue supporting our form of life rather than succumbing to yet another series of ELEs That will leave our earth very, different and without our species - to have yet another go at continuing it's varying evolution experiments among the remaining species to suit the new environment.

[Blue Meany]

101. True what you say, there were "Rockefeller Republicans" who were were the left of what is now the

mainstream Democratic Party. And there were those, like George H W Bush who voted for the Civil Rights Act in act of conscience and personal courage, and who took hell for doing so. I've never voted for GHW, but I've always had a soft spot for him that he eschewed racism within the Rep. party a time when it was really mainstream was willing to risk his political career to do so. His wife, otoh, doesn't seem to have good bone in her body.

[blackspade]

165. +1000

[redstateblues]

60. More "she's a Republican" smears from the Purity Party- Bullshit.

Hillary was one of the most liberal Senators in Congress

[byyiminy]

73. Who's the most liberal?

That's right, Bernie Sanders.

Clinton "one of the most liberals" at ranked #11 isn't that impressive of 47 Democrats.

[reformist2]

13. Yep. And she's going to try to win this on identity politics (read: I'm a woman!) alone.

[rhett o rick]

26. Only her rhetoric has moved left. Pandering is right. nm

[reformist2]

12. People will choose half a loaf instead of none. Then one-quarter, then one-eighth... crumbs, anyone?

[dreamnightwind]

17. She hits them hard!

Asked if Clinton was, in her view, a progressive, Stein laughed and said, "No, not in the least. This is Goldman Sachs' best friend."

Stein offered a litany of Clinton's failures to live up to the Green Party's standards, from the former secretary of state's Wall Street speeches to her record on foreign policy, international trade, fracking and many other issues.
"In what way exactly is she progressive?" Stein asked.
"There's a very long and consistent track record on the part of Hillary Clinton, and it's not been favorable to women, to children, to the cause of peace, justice and a sustainable climate," Stein said.

[Zorra]

19. She's a better candidate for POTUS than Clinton, but Bernie is a better

candidate for POTUS than Jill.

"Stein said the Democratic Party, along with the Republican Party, represented corporate interests..."

Hillary will never speak this undeniable truth, and therefore I can never trust her to represent me.

[dreamnightwind]

22. She might speak it, that's why I'd like to see the speech transcripts

[Renew Deal]

27. The Green Party: Can't get elected. Enables right

[Attorney in Texas]

30. The Democratic Party: Can't nominate a progressive candidate. Capitulates right

[Renew Deal]

32. People new to politics may not have been around for the election of Barack Obama

If they were, they would know better than to say such things.

[byyiminy]

75. Were you around in 2000?

I certainly was and paid attention to politics.

[Renew Deal]

82. I was and I enthusiastically voted for Al Gore. Did you?

[arcane1]

127. You also then voted for conservative Joe Lieberman n/t

[Renew Deal]

132. And you didn't?

[arcane1]

134. I don't vote for conservatives. Your mileage may vary n/t

[truedelphi]

152. Barack got in due to duping the

Public. He campaigned quite heavily on pulling the nation away from the insidious practices of the Big Financial Institutions, and then it turned out he was in their pocket all along.

The fact that he was in their pocket all along explains why during the 2008 election cycle even RW commentators like Hannity said "He is a special case and we should not be about attacking him."

The fact that the Corporate Media pulled for him so hard should have indicated to us progressives that he was doing a classic bait and switch.

"Change" ?? Hardly unless you mean by "Change" that we have gone from a place wherein nine cents out of every dollar of profit goes to big financial institutions to over fifty cents out of every dollar of profit goes to Big Financial Institutions.

[GreenPartyVoter]

161. Yep

[bahrbearian]

34. Talk about enabling the right

[Renew Deal]

67. Yes, we get it. Political opponents should be treated like battlefield enemies.

That's how many of Hillary's opponents have gotten their reputations.

[bahrbearian]

79. But but, enabling Republicans ,Enabling Republicans! They should just get a room.

You may be good with that shit, but don't come out and say "vast right wing conspiracy" then get in bed with them.

[Renew Deal]

85. You're letting your fantasies get the best of you.

Cordiality is not romance.

Think about your own life. Do you have a coworker or neighbor that you dislike? Are you polite or do they have a restraining order out against you? Does politeness equal endorsement or romance?

[bahrbearian]

96. Just a couple of co-workers being Cordial

It's a vast right wing conspiracy, Bush will protect me.

[Katashi_itto]

88. Yes, by the Clintonistas treatment of them. Should work out well for you.

[bvar22]

148. Even more sickening:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Wait for it. She's a Commie, Hippie, troublemaking, treehugger. Not to mention sexist and racist.

Has anyone mentioned she's secretly married to the Archdemon Ralph Nader?

[Katashi_itto]

89. Damn I didnt know. I thought she was a simply a rabid, corporate socialist willing to sell the

the country out.

One learns something new everyday.

[tirebiter]

31. How many primarys has Stein won?

The Greens don't have any? Not very democratic.

[IamMab]

43. You mean she just gets appointed the Green Party candiate? In some kind of back-room deal?

Someone better start a MoveOn petition or something.

[JonLeibowitz]

154. I'm really sorry your talking point is bullshit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

What an inconvenience the facts are.

[HooptieWagon]

56. Greens select their candidate at their convention.

Stein is one of 5 candidates. Parties pay states to conduct primary elections, Greens don't have that in their budget. Even ballot access is difficult, requiring 100s of thousands of signatures. In 2012, the Greens were able to get on presidential ballot in 37 states that covered 82% of registered voters. They are on track to be on the ballot in all 50 states this Nov. If they reach a popular vote threshold (I think it's 5%?) in 2016, then in 2020 ballot access becomes automatic, plus the party becomes eligible for federal campaign funds, and is included in debates. So there is a lot at stake, and supporting the Greens become more viable is an option for Sanders supporters if he's not nominated by the Democratic Party.

[alan2102]

143. Great points, thanks!

Those points should be considered in context with the growing evidence that Trump is significantly to the left of HRC on military and foreign policy (i.e. mass murder, or absence thereof), and on some other issues as well. IOW, Trump is to be feared, perhaps, but not nearly as much as the hil-bots would have it. As such, defection to the Greens becomes more attractive, a low-risk way to do something really positive.

[Zorra]

59. Green Party presidential primaries, 2016

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

[Bjornsdotter]

94. Yep

I couldn't agree more.

[frazzled]

33. Highest elected office of Jill Stein: Lexington Town Committee

She got 549 votes! And she served twice. Let me tell you, there were big things going on in the Lexington Town Committee in 2005 and 2008 when she was elected. Recycling decisions, even, and post-office hours!

But she keeps on running for high office. She got 0.36% of the vote in 2012. Yes, a full one-third of one percent of people listen to what Jill Stein has to say.

[HooptieWagon]

66. You're completely oblivious to why she'll get votes.

No one expects her to win, thus her qualifications to be POTUS are irrelevant. What is being done is building a party that is an option to the two corporatist parties. Stein is the 'face' of the party, and is more than qualified to be that. In the future, when the Greens have a viable party that can contend to win the WH, I'm sure they will nominate a candidate with greater presidential credentials.

[frazzled]

91. Not a member of the 0.36% myself ... so I guess I don't get it

Neither, apparently, do 99.64% of the American people. We're clearly oblivious to the grand plan. Maybe my great-great grandchildren will by the time the Green Party has a viable party, but I'll be long gone. So until that time, I am constrained to dealing with reality.

[COLGATE4]

131. In the future, when the Greens have a viable party...

STOP IT. YOU'RE KILLING ME

[HooptieWagon]

135. If the 2 parties splinter into 4,...

Then 25% becomes viable. Not an impossible scenario.

[COLGATE4]

136. It's not impossible that the sun will not rise tomorrow, either.

But not probable.

[brooklynite]

139. No, 25% DOESN'T become viable...

You apparently mised your Civics class. You don't win the Primary with the MOST Electoral votes; you win it with a MAJORITY of electoral votes. If nobody gets a majority. The choice is made by the House of Representativss voting as States.

[HooptieWagon]

142. I know how it works.

In a 4-way split, every candidate is likely to pick up EVs, but not enough. Any two parties can form a coalition to agree on a single candidate for the House vote by states, thus defeating the other 2. A Green candidate is just as viable in such a scenario as any other, since a 4 party political situation would likely mean all 4 parties are represented in the House. Read up on the 1800 election.

[brooklynite]

145. I'm inclined to think a center-right/center-left coalition is far more likely

[HooptieWagon]

149. That is possible.

But they may be out-numbered by a Populist-left/populist-right coalition....assuming the CL/CR coalition is the corporate-controlled remains of the D&R parties. At some point, economic survival of the 99% may cause a setting aside of social wedge issues. If that happens, the masses uniting in revolt, it will be a rejection of the elite on a scale of the French Revolution.

[oasis]

167. The Sane Progressive is one of her super delegates.

[actslikeacarrot]

36. Well I don't know about social issues but on...

...foreign policy? Absolutely. The anti war movement in the Democratic Party is all but dissapeared, when a majority of dems vote for a candidate that supported and/or voted for military action continuously. I supported Obama in 08 hoping he would end all the wars. He approved the surge in 09 and 10 to Afghanistan and now we are sending even more marines and sailors from the 26th MEU back to Iraq. When will it end?

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2016/03/20/more-marines-headed-iraq-fight-isis-after-rocket-attack/82049284/

[sharp_stick]

37. What a perennial hack

Every 4 or 8 years depending on which Democratic nominee she wants to fuck over.
Screw her and her supporters. Spend your time at the Green Party site or its myriad whining message boards if you want to vote for her.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

46. Love it or Leave it? Is that the new Hillary bumper sticker?

[sharp_stick]

49. If Stein ever ran for the Democratic nominee

you'd be welcome to express your admiration on a Democratic message board.

As it is, this is not the site for them.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

117. She's running for president.

Are we allowed to express our contempt for Trump on a Democratic message board? Even if he's not running as Democratic nominee?

[sharp_stick]

120. Feel free to express your contemp for Stein too

If you want to express your admiration for a non-Democratic candidate for President however I suggest you read the TOS for this pro-Democrat site and then express your admiration elsewhere.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

122. I've read it. And, I admire Jill Stein.

Hell, I even voted for her in 2012.

Love it or leave it?

As for "contempt for Jill Stein", I haven't any.

Do you?

[sharp_stick]

123. Loads of contempt for her

are you planning on voting for her again this year?

Why do you spend your time on a message board dedicated to electing and supporting Democrats?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

129. Maybe I will/maybe I won't. And, that's a promise.

In answer to your question, I'm a Democrat and I like to talk politics.

Actually, because we don't register by party in my state I'm whatever I say I am politically. But, I usually vote for Democrats.

I'm unimpressed by labels and corrupt politicians who run with them.

[Autumn]

64. Amurika!!! Love it or leave it!!!! Do your Duty!!! Fuck Yeah!!!

That's what I keep reading from her supporters. Might as well be their slogan short and to the point, fits them to a tee

[sharp_stick]

125. No, what you hear

or more likely, refuse to hear, is that Democrats would like you to vote for the Democratic nominee on a pro-Democrat site inhabitating a spot on the internet.

[Autumn]

126. I think you must have all the right Hillary supporters on ignore.

[sharp_stick]

128. That's distinctly possible

My ignore list is pretty neutral and pretty full right now. That and I generally avoid the cesspool (aka GD-P)

I don't know how I managed to get in to this one.

[Armstead]

51. Here's a song for ya

[Skink]

81. I'll be right back

[IamMab]

40. Aside from her perennial presidential campaign, what are Jill Stein's accomplishments again? Any?

Bueller? Bueller?

[Katashi_itto]

42. Aside from destabilizing countries, Pro TPP, endless war mongering what has Clinton done?

[IamMab]

44. If you can't answer the question, why bother responding?

And using a tu quoque fallacy to deflect away from Stein and towards Clinton just makes you look sad. As if you don't know how to properly debate like a rational adult or something.

[Katashi_itto]

54. Just pointing out what exactly does Clinton actually offer? Not deflection It's Comparison shopping.

I dont care to spend my vote on a defective product.

[IamMab]

58. And yet you still can't answer what Jill Stein's done to be worth voting for.

So because you revealed yourself to be nothing but a relentless troll, you go on Ignore now. Goodbye forever.

[Katashi_itto]

61. LOL!!!! Project much? So Clinton has nothing to offer eh! Thanks And I welcome your Ignore.

[oldandhappy]

86. pro fracking, gag

[Katashi_itto]

87. yep that too, we could go on all day

[Dragonfli]

107. Not much, but a few things, let's compare accomplishments of Sanders v Clinton

It's not entirely accurate to say Hillary accomplished nothing else,

Hillary Clinton did achieve some things during her six year hobby involved in legislating (the last two were spent campaigning and fundraising)

She managed to vote for the Patriot Act, for an illegal war, and even whip some votes with her passionate selling of the Bush/Cheney lies. (she deserves some credit for that,) and those of you that enjoy war should be and are rightfully quite proud of that.

As a Senator Clinton did get some things accomplished, Clinton sponsored three bills that became law: S.3145, S.3613, and S.1241. The first of these renamed a highway in New York state, the second renamed a post office in New York City, and the third established the Kate Mullany National Historic Site in Troy, New York and authorized funding to set the site up.

To be truly fair, she also tried to put an end to the epidemic of flag burning and ban some media, but these, her most favorite things were too hard for her to get done, she just couldn't get them passed, she may have lacked the chops to do it, but BUT SHE TRIED REAL HARD!

The United States Family Entertainment Protection Act (FEPA) was a bill introduced by Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY), and co-sponsored by Senators Joe Lieberman (D-CT), Tim Johnson (D-SD) and Evan Bayh (D-IN) on November 29, 2005. The bill called for a federal mandate enforcement of the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) ratings.

Unsuccessfully unfortunately for the more puritan among us, sigh, if only she were more effective at passing such laws, we would finally be safe from cluster bombs, eerr.. I mean f-bombs (she voted against ending the use of child killing cluster bombs, my "misspeak" or my bad, if you prefer) she likes cluster bombs, so much so that after some donations to very, very, special charity, she made sure as SoS to sell cluster bombs to those altruistic rulers of Saudi Arabia! She deserves credit for that!

The kids just love playing with those rather than video games.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2008/03/13/cluster-bombs-are-not-good-children-hillary

This is a common result


The rest of her SoS Misadventure, was more about arguing for military intervention (more arms sales after charities were well attended to) and getting advise on the side from the one person Obama asked her not to involve (Sidney Blumenthal) , her SoS tenure really is not even part of the fighting for us thing so much as a trying to get as many things blown up as possible kind of deal, now back to comparing her only other political gig "fighting for us" in congress. Her experience is like a gnat oh Bernie's shoe in comparison.

I believe she has always been a neocon, and an Neo-liberal, (yay a twofer!) and everything she has done in politics supports this. IMO not fighting for us as most of "us" do not benefit from either NeoCon or Neo-Liberal policies, quite the opposite in fact.

The following is a list of every substantive bill and amendment Sanders sponsored from the floor of Congress that became law (substantive meaning legislation renaming post offices is not included). Many of the roll-call amendments he passed with majority approval — like limiting the federal government’s ability to spy on people’s library records — were removed from bills when the House and Senate negotiated over the final legislative text and did not become law.

Because the list is derived from Congress’ official database of floor actions, it does not include achievements like his insertion of funding for veterans health care into an Iraq war spending bill because that occurred off of the House floor while the bill was in conference. Nor does the list include what is perhaps his most significant achievement — providing health care to an additional 10 million mostly low-income Americans by getting Senate majority leader Harry Reid to add $11 billion in funding for community health centers that provide care regardless of a person’s ability to pay to the 2010 Affordable Care Act in exchange for Sanders rallying liberal Democrats who were considering voting against the bill once conservative Democrats removed the public option.

Those who mistakenly believe that a President Sanders would be powerless in the face of a hostile Republican Congress should bear in mind that he managed to pass these bills and amendments in spite of Republican control of both the House (1995-2006) and the presidency (2001-2008). Furthermore, it was Republicans in the House and Senate who compromised with him (not the other way around) on major veterans legislation in 2014. His original bill expanding services for veterans and fixing the scandal-ridden Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) cost $17.3 billion. The price tag of the final compromise bill? $16.3 billion.

H.R.4206 (Cancer Registries Amendment Act) enacted as S. 3312 (Cancer Registries Amendment Act).

H.Amdt. 98 to H.R. 665 (Victims of Justice Act of 1995)

H.Amdt. 210 to H.R. 830 (Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995)

H.Amdt. 1203 to H.R. 3666 Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 1997

H.J.Res.129 enacted as S.J.Res.38 (A joint resolution granting the consent of Congress to the Vermont-New Hampshire Interstate Public Water Supply Compact)

H.Amdt.174 to H.R.1757 (Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998)

H.Amdt.267 to H.R.2160 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1998)

H.Amdt.289 to H.R.2266 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1998) -- National Guard Starbase program

H.Amdt.368 to H.R.2378 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 1998) -- Prohibit funds for the U.S. Customs Office from being used to allow the importation into the U.S. any material mined, produced, or manufactured by forced or indentured child labor.

H.Amdt.388 to H.R.2267 (Departments of Commerce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1998)

H.Amdt.569 to H.R.6 (Higher Education Amendments of 1998)

H.Amdt.614 to H.R.3694 (Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1999) -- Reduce the intelligence budget for fiscal year 1999 by 5% with an exemption for the CIA Retirement and Disability Fund.

H.Amdt.626 to H.R.10 (Financial Services Act of 1998) -- Require the Comptroller General to report to Congress regarding the efficacy and benefits of uniformly limiting any commissions, fees, markups, or other costs incurred by customers in the acquisition of financial products.

H.Amdt.706 to H.R.4101 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1999) -- Increase funding for nutrition programs for senior citizens by $10 million

H.Amdt.708 to H.R.4103 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1999) -- Prohibit funding to be used to enter into or renew a contract with any company owned, or partially owned, by the People’s Republic of China or the People’s Liberation Army of the People’s Republic of China.

H.Amdt.724 to H.R.4104 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 1999) enacted as H.R. 2490 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2000) -- National Archives and Records Administration improvements

H.Amdt.127 to H.R.1906 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000)

H.Amdt.136 to H.R.1906 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) -- national pilot program to promote agritourism

H.Amdt.258 to H.R.2466 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) enacted as H.R.3194 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2000) -- deficit reduction; and reduces fossil energy research and development funding

H.Amdt.442 to H.R.2684 (Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) -- health care services for veterans in rural areas

H.Amdt.791 to H.R.4577 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2001) -- (relating to the availability to the public of an invention and its benefits on reasonable terms)

H.Amdt.818 to H.R.4578 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2001) -- weatherization assistance and energy conservation programs and reduce fossil fuel energy research and development programs

H.Amdt.238 to H.R.2590 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2002) -- Prohibit the importation of goods made by forced or indentured child labor.

H.Amdt.376 to H.R.3061 (Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2002) -- relating to the availability to the public of an invention and its benefits on reasonable terms

H.Amdt.404 to H.R.3338 (Department of Defense and Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Recovery from and Response to Terrorist Attacks on the United States Act, 2002) -- Provide $100 million for federally qualified community health centers.

H.Amdt.255 to H.R.2691 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2004) -- Increase funding for weatherization assistance grants

H.Amdt.336 to H.R.2861 (Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 2004) enacted as H.R.2673 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2004) -- Prohibit the use of funds in the bill to implement any policy prohibiting the Directors of the Veterans Integrated Service Networks from conducting outreach or marketing to enroll new veterans within their respective networks.

S.Amdt.737 to H.R.1591 (U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans’ Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007) -- fund weatherization assistance program

S.Amdt.1515 to H.R.6 (Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007) -- Establish an energy efficiency and renewable energy worker training program

S.Amdt.1525 to H.R.6 (Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007) -- use of solar hot water heaters in certain Federal buildings

S.Amdt.4384 to H.R.3221 (Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008) -- Increase specially adapted housing benefits for disabled veterans.

S.Amdt.1658 to S.1390 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010) -- re child care available to deployed members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces

S.Amdt.2271 to H.R.2997 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2010) -- funds for the school community garden pilot program

S.Amdt.2601 to H.R.3326 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2010) -- veteran outreach and reintegration services

S.Amdt.3738 to S.3217 (Restoring American Financial Stability Act of 2010) -- let the American people know the names of the recipients of over $2 trillion in taxpayer assistance from the Federal Reserve System

S.Amdt.306 to H.R.1 (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009) -- Require recipients of TARP funding to meet strict H-1B worker hiring standard to ensure non-displacement of U.S. workers

S.Amdt.1658 to S.1390 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010) -- report to Congress on financial assistance for child care available to deployed members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces.

S.Amdt.4280 to H.R.4899 (Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2010) -- make publicly available the contractor integrity performance database established under the Clean Contracting Act of 2008

S.2450 (Veterans’ Access to Care through Choice, Accountability, and Transparency Act of 2014) enacted as H.R.3230 (Veterans Access, Choice, and Accountability Act of 2014) -- VA reform bill

S.893 (Veterans’ Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2013) -- increase rates of veterans’ disability compensation, additional compensation for dependents, etc.

S.Amdt.2146 to S.1471 (Alicia Dawn Koehl Respect for National Cemeteries Act) – re interring the remains and honoring the memory of a person in a national cemetery

[font size="3" ; color="8B0000"]Also, compare her record to this perhaps you will get to the magic 92% of Congressional agreement with him here[/font]

So far I have posted this or variations of it (about 9 times):

The Right Wing implication appears to be that even with all his years of public service, a progressive like Bernie Sanders was too far to the left to accomplish anything.

That one has to be able to find the buypartisan way, in other words, adopt the least offensive GOP legislation as your own if you wish to accomplish anything, if one is not a member of the Republican party itself.

The problem with this bullshit GOP meme is that it is completely false, he's actually one of the most effective members of Congress, passing bills, of all sizes and shapes, that have reshaped American policy on key issues like poverty, the environment and health care.

[center][font size=3"]The Amendment King[/font][/center]

....Congress is not known to be a progressive institution lately, to say the least. Over the past few decades, the House of Representatives was only controlled by the Democrats from 2007 to 2010, and a flood of corporate money has quieted the once-powerful progressive movement that passed legislation moving the country forward between the New Deal era and the Great Society. Yet, as difficult as it may be to believe, a socialist from Vermont is one of its most accomplished members. ....

snip

....Sanders did something particularly original, which was that he passed amendments that were exclusively progressive, advancing goals such as reducing poverty and helping the environment, and he was able to get bipartisan coalitions of Republicans who wanted to shrink government or hold it accountable and progressives who wanted to use it to empower Americans.

Here are a few examples of the amendments Sanders passed by building unusual but effective coalitions:....

[font color="red"]Much more, but due to the three paragraph rule you will have to follow this link[/font]
I dare those that pretend the GOP meme is true and are spreading it for them, to read the article!

There are so many examples in fact that you really need to read the entire article as it completely dispels this current Right Wing myth that Bernie Sanders after all his time in Congress achieved almost nothing, when in fact he was literally one of the most effective members of Congress! Read the facts in the article itself, clearly the GOP is spreading lies about him, after all, who besides Rove and the GOP would use such lying sleazy bullshit tactics against someone that helped Democrats get as much progressive policy put into effect during his tenure?...


[font size="3"][center]Robert Reich, Clinton Secretary of Labor, on Bernie's effectiveness in Congress[/font][/center]



He was also very effective as Mayor

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511758469

[Armstead]

70. From her wenbsite -- At least know what the hell you're talking about

http://www.jill2016.com/about

Jill Stein was the Green Party’s 2012 candidate for president of the United States. She is an organizer, physician, and pioneering environmental-health advocate. She has led initiatives promoting healthy communities, local green economies and the revitalization of democracy – addressing issues such as campaign finance reform, green jobs, racially-just redistricting, and the cleanup of incinerators, coal plants, and toxics. She was a principal organizer for the Global Climate Convergence for People, Planet and Peace over Profit.
Dr. Jill Stein is a mother, physician, longtime teacher of internal medicine, and pioneering environmental-health advocate.

She is the co-author of two widely-praised reports, In Harm's Way: Toxic Threats to Child Development, published in 2000, and Environmental Threats to Healthy Aging, published in 2009. The first of these has been translated into four languages and is used worldwide. The reports promote green local economies, sustainable agriculture, clean power, and freedom from toxic threats.

Her "Healthy People, Healthy Planet" teaching program reveals the links between human health, climate security, and green economic revitalization. This body of work has been presented at government, public health and medical conferences, and has been used to improve public policy.

Jill began to advocate for the environment as a human health issue in 1998 when she realized that politicians were simply not acting to protect children from the toxic threats emerging from current science. She offered her services to parents, teachers, community groups and a native Americans group seeking to protect their communities from toxic exposure.

Jill has testified before numerous legislative panels as well as local and state governmental bodies. She played a key role in the effort to get the Massachusetts fish advisories updated to better protect women and children from mercury contamination, which can contribute to learning disabilities and attention deficits in children. She also helped lead the successful campaign to clean up the "Filthy Five" coal plants in Massachusetts, an effort that resulted in getting coal plant regulations signed into law that were the most protective around at that time. Her testimony on the effects of mercury and dioxin contamination from the burning of waste helped preserve the Massachusetts moratorium on new trash incinerator construction in the state.

Jill has appeared as an environmental health expert on the Today Show, 20/20, Fox News, and other programs. She was also a member of the national and Massachusetts boards of directors of the Physicians for Social Responsibility. Her efforts to protect public health has won her several awards including: Clean Water Action's "Not in Anyone's Backyard" Award, the Children's Health Hero" Award, and the Toxic Action Center's Citizen Award.

Having witnessed the ability of big money to stop health protective policies on Beacon Hill, Jill became an advocate for campaign finance reform, and worked to help pass the Clean Election Law. This law was approved by the voters by a 2-1 margin, but was later repealed by the Massachusetts Legislature on an unrecorded voice vote.

In 2002 activists in the Massachusetts Green-Rainbow Party approached Dr. Stein and asked her to run for Governor of Massachusetts. Dr. Stein accepted, and began her first foray into electoral politics. She was widely credited with being the best informed and most credible candidate in the race.

She has twice been elected to town meeting in Lexington, Massachusetts. She is the founder and past co-chair of a local recycling committee appointed by the Lexington Board of Selectmen.

In 2003, Jill co-founded the Massachusetts Coalition for Healthy Communities, a non-profit organization that addresses a variety of issues that are important to the health and well-being of Massachusetts communities, including health care, local green economies, and grassroots democracy.

Jill represented the Green-Rainbow Party in two additional races – one for State Representative in 2004 and one for Secretary of State in 2006. In 2006 she won the votes of over 350,000 Massachusetts citizens – which represented the greatest vote total ever for a Green-Rainbow candidate.

In 2008, Jill helped formulate a "Secure Green Future" ballot initiative that called upon legislators to accelerate efforts to move the Massachusetts economy to renewable energy and make development of green jobs a priority. The measure won over 81 per cent of the vote in the 11 districts in which it was on the ballot.

Jill was born in Chicago and raised in suburban Highland Park, Illinois. She graduated magna cum laude from Harvard College in 1973, and from Harvard Medical School in 1979. Jill enjoys writing and performing music, and enjoys long walks with her Great Dane, Bandita. Dr. Stein lives in Lexington with her husband, Richard Rohrer, also a physician. She has two sons, Ben and Noah, who have graduated from college in the past few years.

[SidDithers]

45. Fuck Ralph Nader...nt

Sid

[Katashi_itto]

62. Someones having a sad.

[workinclasszero]

97. Fuck Ralph Nader x 100

That asshole gave us 8 years of Bush!

But Gore wasn't good enough for the 1%er purists like Susan Sarandon so they flushed the whole country down toilet for spite.

I'm sure those 8 years didn't hurt her or her white upper class Nader voting pals one tiny bit!

[alan2102]

146. assholes

Assholes that claim that "that asshole gave us 8 years of Bush" gave us 16 years of clinton/obama corporate fascism, neoliberalism, etc.

[HooptieWagon]

47. She is correct, but DU isn't the proper place to talk about Stein.

The RW faction of the party did seize control when the Clintons and Al From formed the DLC with funding from the Kochs. Since then they have dragged the party further right, leaving traditional FDR Democrats behind. The Left has stayed loyal, but gotten nothing in return. After being left at the alter for 6 elections in a row, it's no wonder the left is finally looking at candidates like Sanders and Stein, who more closely fit our views.

[Vote2016]

53. This isn't a discussion of Stein. It's a discussion of the Democratic Party. I'm voting Sanders, not

Stein.

[djean111]

55. I don't even know why Hillary's supporters even bother denying this, now. n/t

[HooptieWagon]

80. To keep up the illusion of democracy.

Corporations control the government. Every four years we're given the choice of voting for a corporatist Republican or a corporatist Democrat. Giving us the illusion of choice prevents us from storming the gates and hanging the bastards.

[surrealAmerican]

65. What she's saying is obvious enough ...

... or should be obvious enough, to any casual observer.

I don't think she stands much of a chance of changing things from the outside. You never know for certain, the Democratic Party could implode eventually, but it doesn't look imminent. We are probably better off trying to make changes from within this party, at least for now.

[HooptieWagon]

74. Opinions differ on change from the inside.

That would be preferable. However, it has become quite apparent this cycle that the corporate backed establishment of the party is going to use every means possible to prevent change, and block a true progressive candidate. When the path is permanently blocked, you seek another path, not continue to beat your head against an inpenetratable wall.

[Vote2016]

95. If the status quo establishment will nominate the least trusted and most disliked candidate since

the advent of polling, my hope for chance from within is not burning bright.

[Dragonfli]

110. See post #98 as it is directly related to points you are making plus what it means re the parties

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511869734#post98

[brooklynite]

63. If she'd like to influence the Democratic choice, I'd suggest she join the Party

[Armstead]

69. Ha -- Look at the response of "the Democratic Party" to Sanders

Yeah real receptive to progressive change and reform. The partisans have so welcoming to Sanders.

[Vote2016]

72. lol! "Fuck you and your progressive values; now get on board with the candidate I chose for you!"

[brooklynite]

109. If you all ship over to The Green Party, you might DOUBLE her vote...to 1.3%

Meanwhile there will be plenty of people voting for the Democratic nominee...picked by Democrats.

[bvar22]

150. A revealing look behind the curtain at "influencing" the Party Establishment:

The Arkansas Democratic Primary of 2010 was a heart breaking eye opener for the Grass Roots and Organized LABOR. We were given a Look Behind the Curtain,
and it wasn't very pretty.

[font size=3]We did EVERYTHING right in Arkansas in 2010.
We did EXACTLY what the White House asked us to do to "give the President Progressives in Congress that would work with him."[/font]

We organized and supported Democratic Lt Governor Bill Halter, the Pro-LABOR/ Pro-Health Care challenger to DINO Obstructionist Blanche Lincoln's Senate seat.
Halter was:

* Polling BETTER against the Republicans in the General,

*was popular in Arkansas in his OWN right,

*had an Up & Running Political machine,

* had a track record of winning elections (Lt. Governor)

*Had the full backing of Organized LABOR and The Grass Roots activists

*was handing Blanche her Anti-LABOR ass

...and we were WINNING!

Guess what happened.

The White House stepped in at the last minute to save Blanche's failing primary campaign with an Oval Office Endorsement of The Wicked Witch that Wrecked the Obama Agenda who was actually campaigning at that time as the one who had killed the Public Option!!!

Adding insult to injury, the White House sent Bill Clinton back to Arkansas on a state-wide Campaign/Fund Raising Tour for Blanche,
focusing on the areas with high Black Populations, and bashing Organized LABOR and "Liberals" at every opportunity.

For those of us who had worked hard to give President Obama Progressive Democrats who would work with him, it was especially difficult to watch his smiling Oval Office Endorsement for DINO Blanche Lincoln which played 24/7 on Arkansas TV the week before the runoff Primary election.

White House steps in to rescue Lincoln’s Primary Campaign in Arkansas

"So what did the Democratic Party establishment do when a Senator who allegedly impedes their agenda faced a primary challenger who would be more supportive of that agenda? They engaged in full-scale efforts to support Blanche Lincoln.

* Bill Clinton traveled to Arkansas to urge loyal Democrats to vote for her, bashing liberal groups for good measure.

*Obama recorded an ad for Lincoln which, among other things, were used to tell African-American primary voters that they should vote for her because she works for their interests.

*The entire Party infrastructure lent its support and resources to Lincoln — a Senator who supposedly prevents Democrats from doing all sorts of Wonderful, Progressive Things which they so wish they could do but just don’t have the votes for.

<snip>

What happened in this race also gives the lie to the insufferable excuse we’ve been hearing for the last 18 months from countless Obama defenders: namely, if the Senate doesn’t have 60 votes to pass good legislation, it’s not Obama’s fault because he has no leverage over these conservative Senators. It was always obvious what an absurd joke that claim was; the very idea of The Impotent, Helpless President, presiding over a vast government and party apparatus, was laughable. But now, in light of Arkansas, nobody should ever be willing to utter that again with a straight face.

Back when Lincoln was threatening to filibuster health care if it included a public option, the White House could obviously have said to her: if you don’t support a public option, not only will we not support your re-election bid, but we’ll support a primary challenger against you. Obama’s support for Lincoln did not merely help; it was arguably decisive, as The Washington Post documented today:"

<much more>

http://www.salon.com/2010/06/10/lincoln_6/

After the White House and Party Leadership had spent a truck full of money torpedoing the Primary challenge of a Pro-LABOR Democrat for Lincoln's Senate seat, the Party support for Lincoln evaporated for the General Election, and as EVERYBODY had predicted, Lincoln lost badly giving that Senate seat to a Republican virtually uncontested in the General Election.

Don't you find it "interesting" that the Party Establishment and conservative Power Brokers would spend all that money in a Democratic Primary to make sure that their candidate won, and then leave Their Winner dangling without support in the General Election?

Many Grass Roots Activists working for a better government concluded that the current Democratic Party Leadership preferred to GIVE this Senate Seat to a Big Business Republican rather than taking the risk that a Pro-LABOR Democrat might win it, and it was difficult to argue with them.
This was greatly reinforced by the Insults & Ridicule to LABOR & The Grass Roots from the White House after their Primary "victory" over Organized LABOR & the Grass Roots in the Arkansas Democratic Primary.

When the supporters of Pro-LABOR Lt Gov Bill Halter asked the White House WHY they had chosen to throw their full support behind Lincoln at the last minute, rescuing her failing campaign, the only answer was ridicule and insults.

Ed Schultz sums up my feeling perfectly in the following clip.
http://crooksandliars.com/heather/ed-schultz-if-it-wasnt-labor-barack-obama-

So what did the White House gain by Beating Down Labor and the Grass Roots in the Arkansas Democratic Primary?
We don't know.
The White House has never responded to our questions with an explanation, only insults.
To date, the White House has refused to answer our questions,
or issue an apology for their taunts and ridicule of Organized LABOR and the Grass Roots in the Arkansas Democratic Primary.

[seabeyond]

68. When did Jill Stein become a voice for Democratic Underground?

[Vote2016]

77. IDK. When the DNC abandoned the role as a voice for Democrats?

This isn't a "vote Stein" post (and I'm not planning on voting for Stein).

A post discussing Rachel Maddow's views on the Democratic Party isn't a "vote Maddow" post; it's just a post where the poster thinks Maddow's views are insightful.

I think Stein's views are insightful but I'm voting Sanders.

[seabeyond]

90. Silly you

[MineralMan]

78. She didn't. She's a voice of desperation.

We've had arguments here about qualifications for the presidency. Jill Stein has lost every election, except for Town Meeting Committee member in Lexington. If ever a candidate were unqualified to become President, it is Jill Stein. There are dozens of Democratic House members and Senators who are, indeed, qualified. Jill Stein is not. Being on a city council or equivalent position is a poor resume to bring to a presidential election.

She will get under 1% of the vote in the General Election, as is typical for such splinter parties. A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for nothing at all, in terms of governance of the United States of America. As such, it is a wasted vote.

Sorry to be blunt, but there it is.

[Vote2016]

83. How is being the nominee of a third party desperate? I don't think that the nominees of the Green or

Libertarian parties expect to win but they nevertheless run on principle.

That sounds more aspirational than desperate.

[JonLeibowitz]

155. Each individual vote is meaningless unless the difference between candidates' vote totals is "1"

In that case, every person's vote was essential.

[Babel_17]

71. Money talks (nt)

[bbgrunt]

93. "Money doesn't talk, it screams"

---Bob Dylan

[Vote2016]

99. Money doesn't talk or scream; it commands.

[Broward]

84. The Dem Party is likely heading toward an historic split.

The Party tent that now houses corporatists and warmongers has gotten way too big. The forces now within are incompatible with each other. The Third Wayers should officially merge with the establishment corporatists in the GOP and get it over with.

[Vote2016]

92. I don't think the Democratic Party will split, but this election will redefine both parties so that

the Republican party will become the populist party and the Democratic party will become the status quo party.

[HooptieWagon]

105. There will be a shake-up in both parties.

I think a number of Republicans join/form a 'populist' Conservative party. A number of Democrats form/join a populist Liberal party. Both establishment parties shrink further in size, possibly to the point of near irrelevance (under 20%...they're not far away now). Corporate backers may merge the two parties to remain viable.

[Broward]

106. Yeah, may be. It wouldn't be the first time there were tectonic ideological shifts

between the parties.

[COLGATE4]

133. Yep. I fully expect to see the predicted split by 2020.

Or, if not then , 2024. Or if not, 2028 or... well, you get the idea.

[felix_numinous]

100. K&R The Democratic Party should earn our support

not demand or expect it by default.

[tritsofme]

108. Jill Stein and the Green Party: Their left wing talk is nothing but a veneer for supporting Trump

They do nothing except enable Trump and Republicans to take power with a minority of the vote.

Get into bed with them at the risk of the entire nation.

[Vote2016]

111. "RESISTANCE IS FUTILE" "DRINK THE KOOL-AID" "WAR IS PEACE"

[tritsofme]

115. Cute slogans, but my post is the sober truth.

Everyone has a choice to make this election, enable Donald Trump or support Hillary.

You may find those options distasteful, but they are the only ones before us.

[Vote2016]

118. Your post was nonsense. People can write in a candidate, vote Libertarian, vote Green, or stay home

if we want.

None of that "enables" Trump (and that's true everywhere but especially true in the 45 non-batleground states).

[tritsofme]

153. If enough people take that mentality, then Trump could carry "blue" states with margins like 47-46-7

Left of center voters casting 53% of ballots but winning nothing.

Any vote not cast for Hillary in November has the potential consequence of enabling Trump.

[Vote2016]

158. If she's that vulnerable, we should nominate someone who isn't the least liked/most distrusted

candidate since the beginning of polling

[tritsofme]

159. I don't think she is. I just reject the argument that voting third party can always be consequence

free. Best case scenario it doesn't matter, worst case scenario you end up enabling someone like Trump.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

147. How many times has Jill Stein ever voted with Republicans in congress?

How many times has Hillary?

[LWolf]

114. She's correct.

She also said:

Stein said the Democratic Party, along with the Republican Party, represented corporate interests and has not allowed progressives to take charge. The story she told of the Democratic Party was one of a party that had used its "kill switch," in the form of packed primary days, like Super Tuesday, and super delegates, to take down "very good and principled campaigns" over the decades. These progressive campaigns "are invariably sabotaged by the (Democratic) party," she said.

I agree with this statement.

[Thinkingabout]

130. More appreciation for the party who allowed Sanders to run in our primaries, we are the

Democratic party, if Sanders has a need to change a party then perhaps the Liberty Union party will allow him to return and change their party. Either Sanders likes the Democratic Party and he has agreed to abide by our rules or he did not tell the truth when he made this agreement.

[Eric J in MN]

172. Sanders won't run for president with a Third Party.

Sanders refuses to even meet with Jill Stein. She's not his spokeswoman.

[Thinkingabout]

173. He has given his word on third party and also backing the DNC nominee.

My point is his trying to change the Democratic party.

[Eric J in MN]

174. He shouldn't try to get his goals into the Democratic Party platform? NT

NT

[Thinkingabout]

175. Not the unrealistic ones.

[CobaltBlue]

138. Jill Stein is correct!

Millenials have a good b.s. detector on politicians—both parties—because they have not sold out like their elders.

[Scurrilous]

140. Oh, her again...

[Beacool]

141. Sorry, Stein. The Democratic party is not a Socialist collective.

Democrats are voting and choosing the candidate of their choice. This year their choice is Hillary. Sanders did a lot better than most people thought that he would do, but it was never realistic to think that a self described "democratic socialist" who refused for decades to join the Democratic party was going to hijack it and become their nominee. It wasn't going to happen. Actual Democrats have been voting in greater numbers for Hillary.

[Sparkly]

156. Oh FFS -- The ANGST about who's right and who's left is over the TOP.

[baldguy]

157. This post blatantly violates DU's TOS:

"...advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground."

The fact that it still is not hidden shows the unfair bias that exists in the jury system, especially when it's dominated by anti-Democratic partisans.

[Vote2016]

160. This advocates in favor of Sanders - so now the best liked and most trusted candidate is a spoiler?

[blackspade]

162. Truth hurts.

[eridani]

164. One thing that Democrats do that Stein does not do, is

--run voter contact operations--at least on the national level. A number of Greens and other third party candidates do it on the local level, though.

[snot]

169. K&R'd & bookmarked.

[Eric J in MN]

171. Obama has progressive accomplishments.

- Obamacare
- Warmer relations with Cuba
Etc.

Some of us are optimistic about what HRC would do as president and some of us aren't. But even if a President HRC is terrible, that doesn't mean that we never get progressive accomplishments by electing Democrats.

[Progressive dog]

176. So Jill Stein has her own party since

her self described "progressive" views don't have enough support to even compete in either major party.
Hating 1% of the US people, banks that she has determined to be "predatory", fossil fuel giants, and "war profiteers" doesn't define a path to "progress".