Sun May 1, 2016, 10:43 AM

Cal33 (7,018 posts)

Those who would not vote for Hillary in the GE, have you taken a good look at the Big-Picture?

With all her negatives that have been described here at DU, she would still be a lot better
than any Republican president. For instance, I doubt it that she would nominate a
Republican to the SCOTUS. Yes, there will be no change. She will maintain the present
status quo. Our democracy will remain a half-dead one. But where there is life, there is
hope. We can still hope that the next Progressive president will do the job.

If we elect a Republican president this coming November, I feel that the Corporatists are
ready to kill democracy in our nation altogether, and this time they will make their
Oligarchic Fascists the leaders of our nation. My feeling is that they would have made their
move during Bush Jr.'s presidency, but they decided against it probably because they felt
that they weren't strong enough. And a failure of this magnitude would carry heavy
consequences. Today they are much stronger than they were a decade ago.

An example: Police departments have been militarized in our entire nation from coast to
coast. Few people knew about this until 2011, when Occupy Wall Street began their
peaceful demonstrations. The police cracked down on them brutally and had them jailed,
albeit for a few days only -- not just in NYC, but throughout the country.

Only then did we realize that the militarization of our police departments was already a
fait accompli in 2011. To do something of this order takes a good deal of planning, and
time. This must have taken years to complete.

Whose idea was it? Who did the planning? We already have the strongest and most costly
military in the world, do we really also need a militarized police department at home? And
if so, what is it for? And why such secrecy? Shouldn't the American people also have had
some say in this? If it weren't for the Occupy Wall Street incidents, we might still have
been totally in the dark today.

Sanders still has a chance of winning. I have not given up hope. But if he should lose
the Primaries, I would vote for Clinton. Under these circumstances, odd as it may seem,
she would represent our best hope of preventing the greater of two evils from happening
to our entire nation!

To me, the above is a brief description of what I think is the Big-Picture of the state our
country at this very moment. We are living in highly interesting, but also extremely
dangerous times.

In the meantime, we'll continue to do everything to help Sanders win.

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143 replies	Author	Time	Post
Those who would not vote for Hillary in the GE, have you taken a good look at the Big-Picture? (Original post)	Cal33	May 2016	OP
I will not vote for a Republican.	bkkyosemite	May 2016	#1
How about staying home? Would you do that? Not voting also means one Democratic vote fewer.	Cal33	May 2016	#2
I hear very few will stay home.	artislife	May 2016	#21
As long as they are helping the Republicans to lose. The most important point is what will	Cal33	May 2016	#25
Whatever.	artislife	May 2016	#27
agree	Ferd Berfel	May 2016	#15
Great for you guys. I hope other states will also get more Progressives into Congress.	Cal33	May 2016	#28
I cannot stand with people who behave as she and many of her followers do	Android3.14	May 2016	#3
I think the really big question is "What could happen to our entire nation if I did this or	Cal33	May 2016	#12
Not after this primary	Android3.14	May 2016	#30
How about thinking in terms of which is the greater of two evils for our entire nation? I	Cal33	May 2016	#41
I think moral intelligent people withhold support for corporatism	Android3.14	May 2016	#42
When there are two evils, I think I will always try to fight to prevent the greater	Cal33	May 2016	#59
No,voting for Trump is helping Trump...	Yurovsky	May 2016	#122
Yes, there are several names - Goldman Sachs, WalMart, Citigroup, Pharmaceutical Cos., Insurance	Cal33	May 2016	#129
Agree 100% with the last line...	Yurovsky	May 2016	#141
The oligarchs are already firmly in control.	stillwaiting	May 2016	#4
Yes, they are firmly in control, but not completely. If we help a Republican president to win this	Cal33	May 2016	#17
The gravest threat is climate destabilization. I will NEVER vote for someone who doesn't address it	onecaliberal	May 2016	#5
The Republicans will more certainly NOT address climate destabilization than Hillary. As	Cal33	May 2016	#22
They are owned BY THE SAME PEOPLE. What is so hard to understand	onecaliberal	May 2016	#57
They are not exactly the same people. With a Republican as president, our nation	Cal33	May 2016	#60
Your vote is your decision and your business, my vote is my decision.	onecaliberal	May 2016	#63
The status quo destroys our environment the same as climate change deniers.	riderinthestorm	May 2016	#95
Hillary addressed climate destabilization	creeksneakers2	May 2016	#49
As she likes and supports fracking	Duckhunter935	May 2016	#54
By supporting fracking and taking donations from big oil.	onecaliberal	May 2016	#58
Glad to know that she said what she did. I hope she will live up to her words, should	Cal33	May 2016	#64
And James Hansen said it is far from enough	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#109
James Hansen is great	creeksneakers2	May 2016	#111
And why we will go extinct	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#112
You need to say what group she was speaking to when she put out that particular position right	pdsimdars	May 2016	#142
but Hillary IS a corporatist! She bragged to me how she was an original thinker and early	Kip Humphrey	May 2016	#6
Don't put too much emphasis on names and labels. There are corporatists and corporatists. Some	Cal33	May 2016	#37
This message was self-deleted by its author	JTFrog	May 2016	#7
If you live in a swing state, pull the straight party lever! If you live in the 45 other states,	Vote2016	May 2016	#8
Those of us in Colorado think Clinton wasn't worth it then	byyiminy	May 2016	#29
Sure, do your best for Bernie. I'm doing that, too. But if Hillaary should win, I'd	Cal33	May 2016	#38
If you're from California, our nominee will carry your state regardless of your vote at the top of	Vote2016	May 2016	#40
I think WA state is right there with you. nt	artislife	May 2016	#52
The big picture, Sander does not have a chance of acquiring 983 delegates by the end of the	Thinkingabout	May 2016	#9
Do you think Hillary	Duckhunter935	May 2016	#33
We'll have to elect more Progressives into Congress. The Dems. probably will win the Senate this	Cal33	May 2016	#39
Funny, that is Bernies position	Duckhunter935	May 2016	#53
Vote your conscious	kcjohn1	May 2016	#10
But there are some negatives Clinton will not add to, which a Republican president most definitely	Cal33	May 2016	#43
A Clinton Admin will likely operate more or less the same as the Obama Admin has.	Garrett78	May 2016	#11
Yes, I agree.	Cal33	May 2016	#66
As of this moment, and from now on, the leader of the "Not Hillary" Party is Donald Trump.	baldguy	May 2016	#13
As Clinton is the minion of the 1%	Katashi_itto	May 2016	#23
There are minions and minions. Some are worse than others. Understanding	Cal33	May 2016	#68
That is such a load of crap	artislife	May 2016	#24
Really?	apcalc	May 2016	#35
It is amazing, and yet, still true.	artislife	May 2016	#48
Oh really?	byyiminy	May 2016	#32
That pic was taken - what? 11 yrs ago?	baldguy	May 2016	#44
If you think in terms of the big-picture, who will do our nation more harm - Hillary or the	Cal33	May 2016	#46
Your big picture only goes so far	artislife	May 2016	#50
Narcissistic madman or sociopathic corporate socialist. Hobson's choice.	Katashi_itto	May 2016	#78
That's baloney. I admit that Sanders' chances are slight, but they are still	Cal33	May 2016	#67
That is some seriously twisted logic	TM99	May 2016	#88
The addition of 3 Scalia types to the Supreme Court by Trump	oasis	May 2016	#14
I don't think Trump can win. He is simply too much for most people.	Cal33	May 2016	#71
I don't vote conservative.	pinebox	May 2016	#16
Thinking in terms of names and labels only limits a person. Sometimes one has to think	Cal33	May 2016	#72
Sorry but I don't do lesser of 2 evils anymore	pinebox	May 2016	#81
I tend to agree . . . they have kept us on this "lesser of 2 evils" for 30+ years now	pdsimdars	May 2016	#143
I'm not there yet on who I will support IF Bernie loses. As long as Bernie is still in the race, I	B Calm	May 2016	#18
I'm frightened about the future (I'm not one of those declaring I won't vote for her).	mmonk	May 2016	#19
If Trump wins it would be disastrous. Cruz might be worse. I don't think either of them can win.	Cal33	May 2016	#73
I hope not but the mere fact you have people this far	mmonk	May 2016	#85
I don't vote Republican.	Katashi_itto	May 2016	#20
Geat! I don't either.	Cal33	May 2016	#74
You support Hillary.	Katashi_itto	May 2016	#77
I have.	byyiminy	May 2016	#26
I agree with you in general. I'm voting against the fron-runner who, I think, will do	Cal33	May 2016	#75
of course, that is why I will vote down ticket races.	Duckhunter935	May 2016	#31
a Republican win would be disastrous	apcalc	May 2016	#34
Yes, definitely.	Cal33	May 2016	#79
I will be voting for the Dem candidate.	padfun	May 2016	#36
Yes, I too sometimes worry for the younger people, and hope that this mess we are in will	Cal33	May 2016	#82
Bernie supporters will follow their consciences when making voting decisions.	aikoaiko	May 2016	#45
So true	Duckhunter935	May 2016	#55
If HRC wins the nomination, pray she faces Trump	mikehiggins	May 2016	#47
I have looked at the big picture	AgerolanAmerican	May 2016	#51
I think that, tainted as she is, there are individuals who are much worse than	Cal33	May 2016	#84
What makes you think our reason for not supporting Clinton...	99Forever	May 2016	#56
Yes, I have, for over 30 yrs. Tired of holding nose being miserable, I'll voter for whomever makes	ViseGrip	May 2016	#61
Has it occurred to you that if any Republican wins, the possibility exists that	Cal33	May 2016	#87
Yes, looking at the big picture is the reason they say they won't	northernsouthern	May 2016	#62
Viva la revolucion!	PowerToThePeople	May 2016	#65
I'm sensing a theme.	frylock	May 2016	#69
You ask if we have looked at the big picture. I ask if you have?	jwirr	May 2016	#70
What you say is true. How great it would be if Bernie wins! He would be the	Cal33	May 2016	#89
You are correct that we may be asked to make the hard	jwirr	May 2016	#106
I think Hillary would help the Corporatists in many ways, but she would not help them at	Cal33	May 2016	#107
In that I agree.	jwirr	May 2016	#110
Yes I have. Hillary - needless war. Trump - gawd only knows. Either one and the climate loses.	Live and Learn	May 2016	#76
Not voting means one less vote for the Democrats. It's helping the Republicans to win. And	Cal33	May 2016	#91
The climate won't wait. Hillary will continue the march towards oligarchy and economic injustice.	Live and Learn	May 2016	#96
If you'd vote for Clinton at all....	seekthetruth	May 2016	#80
Here you and I differ. I don't think Hillary is as bad as Trump or any other Republican. Hence,	Cal33	May 2016	#93
Looking at the long run......	seekthetruth	May 2016	#113
What makes you think the 5th Democratically appointed SupremeCourt Justice would not be	Cal33	May 2016	#114
Who cares?	seekthetruth	May 2016	#115
I do care about both -- as do millions of Sanders supporters. You were the one who brought up	Cal33	May 2016	#116
Dear God....	seekthetruth	May 2016	#118
I agree that we should have and could have switched over to solar, wind and tide power some	Cal33	May 2016	#136
Most Sander supporters won't vote in the general election anyway	tonyt53	May 2016	#83
I've read somewhere that 33% of voting Sanders supporters would not vote for Hillary. Others	Cal33	May 2016	#94
I'll vote.	seekthetruth	May 2016	#119
Speaking of looking at the big picture . . . how is it that you are not aware that this is not	pdsimdars	May 2016	#86
I am very well aware that this is not the GE. I am also aware that Sanders chances of	Cal33	May 2016	#97
You don't appear to be aware this is not the GE because your attention is not here.	pdsimdars	May 2016	#99
Could you guys make up your minds already? One OP tells us that Clinton	Betty Karlson	May 2016	#90
I am not blackmailing anybody - emotionally or otherwise. As long as Bernie is running, I	Cal33	May 2016	#98
The Democratic status quo has been in place for decades.	seekthetruth	May 2016	#121
People who currently support Sanders and won't support Hillary in November are shortsighted fools.	Beacool	May 2016	#92
Maybe we wouldn't even have the right to vote by now. Who knows? My priority now is to	Cal33	May 2016	#100
Cal33	MFM008	May 2016	#101
When she loses, maybe the DNC will think twice before trying another corporatist.	Jester Messiah	May 2016	#102
If she loses, within a few years there might be only 1 political Party left, whatever	Cal33	May 2016	#103
We are already a one party country. the money party though it has two right wings	TheKentuckian	May 2016	#117
Yes. We do have the Corporate Power people with 2 right wings, the 2nd wing being a part	Cal33	May 2016	#124
I'm a Union Labor guy. I've been looking at the big picture since Reagan and Bill. nt	silvershadow	May 2016	#104
Yes I have.	Myrina	May 2016	#105
Every election it's the same old shit	Andy823	May 2016	#108
Those who insist on her being the nominee: have you taken a good look at the Big-Picture?	AgingAmerican	May 2016	#120
Apparently they see a Party that is working for the benefit of ALL the American people as	Cal33	May 2016	#125
I think most will come around.	nolawarlock	May 2016	#123
"We" will not elect a Republican	Kelvin Mace	May 2016	#126
I agree that some of the Hillary supporters are making things worse for Hillary. Instead of	Cal33	May 2016	#130
Absolutely,	Kelvin Mace	May 2016	#134
I will vote for whomever the democratic nominee is with no problem. n/t	RKP5637	May 2016	#127
"Republican Heavy" vs "Republican Lite"	KansDem	May 2016	#128
An attempt to describe your point in one sentence: Republican Lites are the ones who	Cal33	May 2016	#131
Who will start the least wars?	CanadaexPat	May 2016	#132
There's no doubt that Bernie will start the least wars.	Cal33	May 2016	#135
I see a Trump win causing a HUGE win for house and senate in two years	ViseGrip	May 2016	#133
You'd be right, if things continue on the way they are. I sure hope there will still be genuine	Cal33	May 2016	#139
enough with the lectures	dana_b	May 2016	#137
Yes, I've looked at the big picture. This is precisely why I am not voting for HRC.	EndElectoral	May 2016	#138
Yes. The "big picture" is corporate money destroying democracy.	raouldukelives	May 2016	#140

Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 10:44 AM

bkkyosemite (5,792 posts)

Those who would not vote for Hillary in the GE, have you taken a good look at the Big-Picture?

1. I will not vote for a Republican.

2. How about staying home? Would you do that? Not voting also means one Democratic vote fewer.

21. I hear very few will stay home.

25. As long as they are helping the Republicans to lose. The most important point is what will

27. Whatever.

15. agree

28. Great for you guys. I hope other states will also get more Progressives into Congress.

3. I cannot stand with people who behave as she and many of her followers do

12. I think the really big question is "What could happen to our entire nation if I did this or

30. Not after this primary

41. How about thinking in terms of which is the greater of two evils for our entire nation? I

42. I think moral intelligent people withhold support for corporatism

59. When there are two evils, I think I will always try to fight to prevent the greater

122. No,voting for Trump is helping Trump...

129. Yes, there are several names - Goldman Sachs, WalMart, Citigroup, Pharmaceutical Cos., Insurance

141. Agree 100% with the last line...

4. The oligarchs are already firmly in control.

17. Yes, they are firmly in control, but not completely. If we help a Republican president to win this

5. The gravest threat is climate destabilization. I will NEVER vote for someone who doesn't address it

22. The Republicans will more certainly NOT address climate destabilization than Hillary. As

57. They are owned BY THE SAME PEOPLE. What is so hard to understand

60. They are not exactly the same people. With a Republican as president, our nation

63. Your vote is your decision and your business, my vote is my decision.

95. The status quo destroys our environment the same as climate change deniers.

49. Hillary addressed climate destabilization

54. As she likes and supports fracking

58. By supporting fracking and taking donations from big oil.

64. Glad to know that she said what she did. I hope she will live up to her words, should

109. And James Hansen said it is far from enough

111. James Hansen is great

112. And why we will go extinct

142. You need to say what group she was speaking to when she put out that particular position right

6. but Hillary IS a corporatist! She bragged to me how she was an original thinker and early

37. Don't put too much emphasis on names and labels. There are corporatists and corporatists. Some

8. If you live in a swing state, pull the straight party lever! If you live in the 45 other states,

29. Those of us in Colorado think Clinton wasn't worth it then

38. Sure, do your best for Bernie. I'm doing that, too. But if Hillaary should win, I'd

40. If you're from California, our nominee will carry your state regardless of your vote at the top of

52. I think WA state is right there with you. nt

9. The big picture, Sander does not have a chance of acquiring 983 delegates by the end of the

33. Do you think Hillary

39. We'll have to elect more Progressives into Congress. The Dems. probably will win the Senate this

53. Funny, that is Bernies position

10. Vote your conscious

43. But there are some negatives Clinton will not add to, which a Republican president most definitely

11. A Clinton Admin will likely operate more or less the same as the Obama Admin has.

66. Yes, I agree.

13. As of this moment, and from now on, the leader of the "Not Hillary" Party is Donald Trump.

23. As Clinton is the minion of the 1%

68. There are minions and minions. Some are worse than others. Understanding

24. That is such a load of crap

35. Really?

48. It is amazing, and yet, still true.

32. Oh really?

44. That pic was taken - what? 11 yrs ago?

46. If you think in terms of the big-picture, who will do our nation more harm - Hillary or the

50. Your big picture only goes so far

78. Narcissistic madman or sociopathic corporate socialist. Hobson's choice.

67. That's baloney. I admit that Sanders' chances are slight, but they are still

88. That is some seriously twisted logic

14. The addition of 3 Scalia types to the Supreme Court by Trump

71. I don't think Trump can win. He is simply too much for most people.

16. I don't vote conservative.

72. Thinking in terms of names and labels only limits a person. Sometimes one has to think

81. Sorry but I don't do lesser of 2 evils anymore

143. I tend to agree . . . they have kept us on this "lesser of 2 evils" for 30+ years now

18. I'm not there yet on who I will support IF Bernie loses. As long as Bernie is still in the race, I

19. I'm frightened about the future (I'm not one of those declaring I won't vote for her).

73. If Trump wins it would be disastrous. Cruz might be worse. I don't think either of them can win.

85. I hope not but the mere fact you have people this far

20. I don't vote Republican.

74. Geat! I don't either.

77. You support Hillary.

26. I have.

75. I agree with you in general. I'm voting against the fron-runner who, I think, will do

31. of course, that is why I will vote down ticket races.

34. a Republican win would be disastrous

79. Yes, definitely.

36. I will be voting for the Dem candidate.