She's SUCH A LIAR. And she thinks people are STUPID.

[IdaBriggs]

And unfortunately, a lot of them are.

Yes, I've started reading DUer Paul Thompson's "Clinton Email Scandal Timeline" and I am ANGRY. If you aren't, you should be. Here's a link: http://thompsontimeline.com/IS_CLINTON%27S_EMAIL_SCANDAL_FOR_REAL%3F

Now, let's go over some of it, shall we?

SHE LIED UNDER OATH <== Did she learn NOTHING from the impeachment of her husband about how seriously that is viewed?

SIGNED STATEMENT UNDER OATH on August 10, 2015:

"I have directed that all my emails on clintonemail.com in my custody that were or potentially were federal records be provided to the Department of State, and on information and belief, this has been done."

Except she was lying, because not only did Sidney Blumenthal turn in a bunch she "forgot", but the DEFENSE DEPARTMENT found ten more between her and General David Petraeus from January/February of 2009 when her machine had no encryption and he was Commander of United States Central Command.

SHE MIGHT BE AN IDIOT <== On what planet would someone think communication between the United States Secretary of State and the Four Star General Commander of United States Central Command wasn't classified?

Can we assume they were too busy to be trading Lolcats?

SHE IS A TERRIBLE CRIMINAL<== Oh, but it gets better -- I had wondered why she had her staff PRINT off 30,000 emails and then make such a production of presenting them. She knew how to do an email dump electronically (her attorney had copies of the unrelated emails on a thumb drive in his office for months!), so why kill the trees?

The State Department found that all of nine and parts of six emails handed over by Blumenthal (my note: about Libya) were missing from the 30,000 emails Clinton had turned over.

Huh? "Parts of six" -- She had her staff dump the emails to Word, delete stuff they shouldn't have been sending and assumed no one would notice/do a comparison with any other copy!

It's never the crime that gets Washington people in trouble -- it's always the cover up. WHY would she be SO STUPID? That whole "I love my Blackberry because it is just the easiest, best tool ever!" makes no sense when you read this bit --

Clinton turned down the offer to have a secure computer installed in her office so she could check her emails from the comfort of her desk. Instead, even though she was highly dependent on email communication, she had to leave her office, retrieve her BlackBerry from security, go to a nearby secure area, use her BlackBerry, and then give it back to security before returning to her office, every single time. As a result, she would sometimes complain about having to go hours between checking her emails.

That's not convenience - that's cover up.

SHE BETRAYED HER OFFICE <== Why didn't she tell someone to have "no security clearance" Sidney Blumenthal arrested or investigated for how he was getting his hands on NSA and CIA information? They sent and received over a thousand emails (almost every other day!), and --

Many of these contained highly classified information. Curiously, most of those were sent by Blumenthal, even though he was a private citizen with no security clearance whatsoever. Blumenthal appears to have been running a private intelligence back channel operation to Clinton using information from a former CIA official named Tyler Drumheller. Drumheller left the CIA in 2005, but at least one email shows he got his information from an active CIA official. Furthermore, we know from a June 2011 email that was completely unredacted by accident (and then later redacted) that Blumenthal sent Clinton information from NSA reports about a meeting of rebel generals in Sudan that had taken place mere hours earlier!

Did she not know? Only if she couldn't read:

He often included warnings in all caps and specifically stated that his information came from sources that had to make the information born classified. For instance, in July 2012, he sent Clinton an email about Egypt he said was "CONFIDENTIAL," which is the third level of classified information according to US government regulations. Then he gave this warning: "SOURCE: Sources with access to the highest levels of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, and Western Intelligence and security services. THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION COMES FROM AN EXTREMELY SENSITIVE SOURCE AND SHOULD BE HANDLED WITH CARE."

I believe that language was copied word-for-word from something Blumenthal shouldn't have had so if he had it, who else did? And the fact our intelligence people have "access to the highest levels of the Muslim Brotherhood" AND THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD NOW KNOW IT BECAUSE SHE ASKED STATE TO RELEASE ALL OF HER EMAILS AND THEY DID -- HILLARY THINKS THAT ISNT A BIG DEAL?

That's just one example. Hillary was emailing with foreign leaders, our military heads, and the freaking top people at NATO about everything from the Libyan Civil War to North Korea's nuclear arsenal. I'm all about "transparency in government" but there are reasons "classified" stuff stays "classified" while people's lives are at risk.

I am flabbergasted at the arrogance and ego of not only endangering national security in this way, but then making jokes about it and running for President after this level of monumental screw-up.

Its arrogance to think this doesn't matter, and arrogance that is bringing her down. Well, that and stupidity.

SHE REALLY IS AN IDIOT <== She may not know how the Internet actually works.

When a company named Platte River Networks took over management of Clinton's email server in mid-2013, it transferred all the contents of her server onto a new server and managed that, but also kept the old server.

So ANY EMPLOYEE OF Platte River Networks, BUT NOT THE FOLKS AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT, could access the email records of the (former) United States Secretary of State? And none of the Platte River Network staff had security clearance or background checks or anything, and bonus! After they copied the data from the old sever to the new one, they kept it because why? Maybe to repurpose and sell on Ebay? <== Sarcasm

But it gets better!

Platte River Networks had a contract with another company called Datto (My Note: Also no security clearance or background checks or anything), which made monthly copies of the server in the cloud. But Platte River Networks didn't know this was happening since they didn't ask for it or pay for it, and they only found out about it after the FBI had taken the servers away.

Monthly backups On. The. Cloud. Google "naked pictures" of any celebrity, and then come back and tell me how secure that is -- why not just "cc" the local spy agencies and save everyone the trouble?

Paul has done a great job of documenting, linking and putting this all together -- it's big, it's ugly, and it's bad. There's more - way more -- but I am beyond convinced that if the FBI doesn't recommend indictment, the precedent created from "how to handle classified material" through "government employees don't get to hide government records" will be catastrophic.



PaulThompson announcement thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511879555

[pinebox]

1. She certainly is

[tk2kewl]

18. .

[FreakinDJ]

70. Just a matter of time

Until an indictment is handed down

[Fawke Em]

143. The extradition of Guccifer tells me something is afoot.

It generally does not take 26 months to extradite someone from a bilateral nation like Romania, so it's not a result of bureaucratic red tape. And he was already doing time there, so there's no reason to rush him over here, now.

My guess is that he's here for a reason that isn't too comforting to the Clinton camp.

[libdem4life]

223. I'm not up on this...can you give me a link...DU or otherwise...for info?

Thanks, in advance.

[IdaBriggs]

237. Post #49 in this thread has a good starting link.

You can follow all the way to "Smoking Gun" and see the screen shots Guccifer took of the email between Blumenthal and Hillary. He also has his own Wikipedia page.

[libdem4life]

239. Thanks. n/t

[KoKo]

378. Bob Woodward: Clinton Emails Remind Me of the Nixon Tapes

Bob Woodward: Clinton Emails Remind Me of the Nixon Tapes

[Faux pas]

82. Oo oo oo

Thanks for these!

[sufrommich]

2. The fact that Sanders supporters are clinging to a fake

right wing generated scandal is both pathetic and desperate.

[grossproffit]

8. And that post was allowed to stand. This one will as well. It's bullshit.

[SCantiGOP]

217. Agreed

OP and first response are the two worst I have seen on here in at least a week.

[MariaThinks]

20. some sanders supporters will destroy all the good things that Bernie wans to do

and they will be the loudest victims if the gop gets the office again and installs more right wing SCOTUS judges to screw any progressive agenda for decades to come.

but bathe yourselves in hate and lies sanders supporters.

if he wins the nomination I will support him because I'm a Democrat and either Hillary or Bernie are acceptable. I'm certainly not going to spend my energy destroying one of our own.

[tex-wyo-dem]

100. And some Hillary supporters will risk destroying the...

Entire Democratic Party by defending their obviously damaged and compromised candidate. Ignoring the issue will not make it go away and it's going to come down sometime, whether before the convention, during the GE or after the election.

[MariaThinks]

250. you keep proving my point.

[tex-wyo-dem]

291. What, so we're just not supposed to talk about it...

Ignore, pretend it's not there? Even though it's a real FBI investigation, that the DoJ is taking it seriously, that several agencies are doing there own investigations (NSA, CIA, DoS) and this could have real devastating implications, not only to the Democratic front-runner, but to the whole party?

Sorry, but sticking your head into the sand isn't going to make it go away.

Ignoring shit our leaders do just because they are on the same team is something RWers do, not progressives.

[IdaBriggs]

22. Blue dress. Edwards' kid. Hillary's email.

Three examples of STUPID, UNNECESSARY and EMBARRASSING actual scandals caused by people who thought lying would protect them from consequences.

I like Bernie. I also like Biden and Warren. Hillary is so far down the list of what should be acceptable, anyone who knows about this stuff and ignores it deserves to be publicly humiliated for having helped create an atmosphere where she thought she could get away with it.

[sufrommich]

24. Sad.nt

[CoffeeCat]

80. What is really sad

is the willful ignorance of Hillary supporters.

How can you be so cavalier when the FBI may recommend indictment?

Do you think that denial will make this all go away?

You aren't doing yourself or your little friends any favors by encouraging ignorance.

[Maru Kitteh]

128. "the American people are sick and tired of hearing about the damn emails"

Bernie Sanders hit the media hard on the faux Hillary Clinton email scandal, and he didn't hold back.

“Let me say something that may not be great politics, but the secretary is right -- and that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about the damn emails," Sanders thundered. "Enough of the emails, let's talk about the real issues facing the United States of America."

Huge applause, a partial standing ovation, and a handshake between the two.

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/10/sanders-enough-about-emails-lets-talk

[Ohioblue22]

167. It's just like with the super delegates. He was against them before he was for them

[Maru Kitteh]

181. BINGO!

It's the final thrashings of a desperate campaign that has already lost - and he's doing it BADLY.

[LiberalLovinLug]

241. As one gets more information, one can change their opinion no?

Just like many more Democrat primary voters are now regretting their early vote for Ms. Clinton. (Based on the fact that Bernie is on par, and in some polls ahead, with Democrats in national polls)

And no, Bernie is not a fan of the Superdelegate system. Just because he suggested that perhaps a Superdelegate's support should actually reflect the will of his or her constituents? Sorry you'll have to do better than that.

[Ohioblue22]

304. He didn't just suggest that the s.d.s should reflect. after railing against them he started talking

About trying to to steal them away.

[northernsouthern]

351. So you have people that are stealing your votes...

...do you just let them take them, or take them back? I hate superdelegates, with a passion. I am actively voting against every one of them in Washington. They stole the election, and continue to do so. The only thing that may wake up the HRC camp is if they suddenly vote against them...or elect a third candidate since they could possibly do that too.

[libdem4life]

230. Strange, that didn't make the issue go away. And now we have The Foundation.

I know, all a RW plot against the Clintons. But how to get rid of all of those videos?

One word...denial and attack the messenger. No supporter that I have read has any logical counter to these, what appear to be, facts.

That may work on a discussion board, well to some extent, but not to the GE. That's why Bernie scores higher against Republicans...consistently.

[Enthusiast]

322. I think, at the time Bernie was unaware of the serious nature of the e-mail issue.

All of us are conditioned to think accusations against the Clintons by the Republicans are usually silly fabrications. Turns out that is not always the case. For a long time I thought, "Just more made up shit." I think Bernie had the same impression I did.

[libdem4life]

372. That's my take as well.

.He is a gentleman and truly liked her. And at that time it was just another shady situation that she seems to attract.

But now it's way more and almost every day..
drip drip. Lasting this long it's got legs and more keeps coming out.

[tex-wyo-dem]

98. Yes, sad that Hillary supporters prefer to...

Protect their candidate rather than look at the facts.

[Herman4747]

344. What is "sad" is that unless Indictment Fairy comes through for the nation...

...we will be stuck with a belligerent, insincere liar becoming our president, instead of having a great liberal assuming that position.

[FreakinDJ]

74. Because Lying is second nature for Establishment Politics

[Avalux]

69. It's really convenient to blame right wingers for Hillary's poor decision making, isn't it?

With Hillary supporters its a reflexive, standard reaction, in defense of the indefensible - what amounts to a bad judgement call by a woman who is asking us to put her in charge of this country.

"But, but....the GOP hates Hilllary! They are making all of this up! She did nothing wrong!"

Facts are facts and they stand on their own. Hillary is not a victim here, this is not a vast right wing conspiracy. She is responsible for her own actions and should be held accountable for her email fuck up.

[sufrommich]

72. Sad.nt

[Avalux]

77. Is that all you can say? Why is my post sad?

Hillary acted in a way that shows us she believed she didn't need to follow the rules of her employer. There's a reason procedures are in place and she went around them because why? She's a Clinton?

Her carelessness and above-the-law attitude could have done serious damage to this country.

But I'm sure you're ok with all of that, right?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

79. Remarkable what 25 years of non stop propaganda can do to a person.

Some of the folks spreading this horseshit are actually liberals or they think they are.

[tex-wyo-dem]

109. Facts are not horseshit, but willfully ignoring them are...

A very "un-liberal" way of behaving, BTW. I would expect RWers to ignore irrefutable facts to protect their leaders, because they likes their authoritarianism...but self described liberals/progressives? Sad

[Jackie Wilson Said]

110. Facts? Here is the facts, not putting a Democrat in the White House will result

in death and destruction.

[IdaBriggs]

130. There are other Democrats in this country.

Don't like Bernie? Pick someone else -- this candidate is damaged goods and may seriously destroy the entire brand if she is chosen as "our best pick!"

The FBI investigates CRIMES.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/quick-facts

1. Protect the United States from terrorist attack
2. Protect the United States against foreign intelligence operations and espionage
3. Protect the United States against cyber-based attacks and high-technology crimes
4. Combat public corruption at all levels
5. Protect civil rights
6. Combat transnational/national criminal organizations and enterprises
7. Combat major white-collar crime
8. Combat significant violent crime
9. Support federal, state, local and international partners
10. Upgrade technology to successfully perform the FBI’s mission

They don't have the budget to "clear Hillary's name" -- if they've spent a year investigating, retrieved the "monthly back ups" so they can confirm when she started deleting government records, gotten a key witness extradited from a foreign country, and managed to get the IT guy immunity, they aren't playing games.

And she knows it, because she already has her criminal defense attorney on retainer.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

132. President Trump thanks you

[IdaBriggs]

142. Actually, it's HILLARY he should be thanking -- she knew EXACTLY

what she had done, and for the good of the COUNTRY, she should have stepped aside. She could have handpicked a successor and quietly negotiated a deal so she wouldn't be the "First First Lady" facing federal charges.

What kind of EGO puts the country through this?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

159. So what if millions are deported, lives ruined. Meh, I didnt get my way so I am

going to pound my fists and scream.

[IdaBriggs]

175. Again, she's NOT the only Democrat in the country

but she is the one who is going to "Nixon" the hell out of our brand.

If you think this doesn't matter, and are totally fine with future Government Officials hiding Government Records from FOIA requests (as one example), good to know. Or having corporatations provide access to CIA and NSA classified information to their pet officials, again, good to know. Those are two examples of things I'm not okay with, regardless of party affiliation, because it's bad for America.

She was using the Server for the same reason Karl Rove hid emails on an RNC server -- because she didn't want evidence of wrong doing being available. It did t work -- the FBI has the records, and now the train wreck is unavoidable....

[Jackie Wilson Said]

188. So President Trump is what you are advocating for, sounds like to me

[IdaBriggs]

194. You are listening to the sound of your own voice.

It seems to be telling you exactly what you want to hear.

I am not qualified to help with that kind of problem. Good luck!

[Jackie Wilson Said]

197. Can we blame you for not voting in November if the fascists take over?

[grasswire]

240. sociopathic, apparently

narcissistic isn't descriptive enough

[Kip Humphrey]

193. If Hillary wins the nomination, you may congratulate yourself for president Trump.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

195. Nonsense, if she is the nominee I will vote for her and encourage others to do the same

Some of you, on the other hand, will be working against her.

[Kip Humphrey]

224. Some of you? There is one of me... BTW, Hillary will lose the election to the republicon.

[libdem4life]

205. Nope. Bernie beats Trump by double digits. Old meme. n/t

[Jackie Wilson Said]

207. Ahh, so you will be NOT voting for Hillary if she is the nominee, check

[libdem4life]

211. Give it a rest already. And, if possible, stop reflecting your paranoia on me. n/t

[Jackie Wilson Said]

214. Paranoia? Is that what you call the fascist agenda of the GOP?

[libdem4life]

218. No, the fear of anything Bernie I see as paranoia.

Nothing to do with the GOP. They are a waste of time and Trump is not a threat...to Bernie, at least. They are doing just fine chopping themselves up. There is one Democratic candidate who consistently beats Every Republican handily.

[libdem4life]

227. Cue for the Victim Card. Reality is inconvenient. n/t

[CoffeeCat]

73. It's not a right-wing scandal

This is a serious-as-a-heart-attack crisis brewing in our Democratic Party.

You'd have to be a complete fool to ignore all of this.

Who gives a shit what the Republicans think. This is OUR party. This could implode our party.

If you really think this is a right-wing scandal, I suggest you educate yourself. This could implode our party and upend this election.

The FBI is not a right-wing organization. They've been investigating Clinton's use of her unsecure server for nearly a year. It's highly likely that the FBI will recommend indictment.

Get with the program.

[sufrommich]

76. Praying for a trumped up indictment,

that's where Sanders supporters are now. Sad.

[CoffeeCat]

90. Praying? You've got to be kidding me!

You're absurd.

[libdem4life]

210. We have power over the FBI, didn't you get the memo/email?

We are so powerful that we talk them into using resources and agents chasing a virtual witch hunt. Our "cheering or (fill in the blank) " represents the authority to keep them wasting their time on this non-issue.

Wow, I get that Bernie really IS Superman. He's got his folk, most of us non-religious, dropping to our knees in prayer, as well. Oh, my.

I now get "the fear" that demands he drop out. We've converted to religion and we/he's running the FBI now!!! LOLOLOL

[CoffeeCat]

234. I don't recall praying that Pagliano receive immunity

I don't recall praying that Hillary Clinton act like a lawless buffoon during her tenure as Secretary of State, either.

This is not about Sanders or his supporters. As much as it pains her supporters, this is about Hillary Clinton and nothing else.

[IdaBriggs]

360. Well said!!!

The growth of the "vast right wing conspiracy" now includes half the Democratic Party, thousands of participants on a Democratic message board, law enforcement, the DOJ and Bernie Sanders, with time travel thrown in to boot!

We are indeed mighty!

[libdem4life]

363. What a power rush. Bern Power!! n/t

[floriduck]

199. Or maybe you and other Clinton supporters should ask yourselves why you openly

ignore multiple examples of your candidate making statements that range from hypocracy to deceitful lies. These video examples are not made by right wing hacks. They come from so-called reputable sources like Clinton supporting Time-Warner's CNN.

You can ignore them, question them or attack the messenger. You've chosen the latter which makes you look worse for it.

[nolabels]

368. Many in law enforcement are dress-right-dress and follow each other

Mostly they also lean republican (not a surprise, of course). Me thinks they will get a lot closer to November before they let the cat out of the bag. And pretty sure that isn't rocket science either

[Maru Kitteh]

129. Sanders does not think it is a REAL issue. Fox does.

Bernie Sanders hit the media hard on the faux Hillary Clinton email scandal, and he didn't hold back.

“Let me say something that may not be great politics, but the secretary is right -- and that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about the damn emails," Sanders thundered. "Enough of the emails, let's talk about the real issues facing the United States of America."

Huge applause, a partial standing ovation, and a handshake between the two.

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/10/sanders-enough-about-emails-lets-talk

[IdaBriggs]

133. I think he's handling it correctly and with class.

The emails aren't his business because they fall under the purview of the FBI investigation and the Department of Justice and the leaks that are being reported from them are NOT good for Hillary.

[Maru Kitteh]

153. Well he did say it's NOT A REAL ISSUE so yes. I agree with him.

SBS does not think it's a real issue. FOX does.

[IdaBriggs]

165. Plus those silly FBI and DOJ people -- always good to forget about them.

[cui bono]

314. No, you minsterpreted his words.

The complete thought was: "real issues facing the United States of America".

He was in a debate when he said that. He wanted to discuss the "real issues facing the United States of America" as in he wanted to discuss policy differences so people could make an informed decision about a candidate. He wanted to actually have a debate and do what one does in a debate, which is not speculating about ongoing investigations.

He didn't attack her because he thought, mistakenly, that the Democratic Primary was going to be a clean fight. He might not say the same thing today after all the shit Hillary has flung.

.

[CoffeeCat]

161. Poor attempt at spinning Sander's words

Bernie and Jane have both said that there is an ongoing FBI investigation into Clinton and her email sever--and that is why they don't comment.

Everyone knows it's legitimate and serious.

[Maru Kitteh]

177. SBS said it wasn't a REAL issue. I guess you disagree with him. It's allowed.

Bernie Sanders hit the media hard on the faux Hillary Clinton email scandal, and he didn't hold back.

“Let me say something that may not be great politics, but the secretary is right -- and that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about the damn emails," Sanders thundered. "Enough of the emails, let's talk about the real issues facing the United States of America."

Huge applause, a partial standing ovation, and a handshake between the two.

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/10/sanders-enough-about-emails-lets-talk

let's talk about the real issues

So either he flip-flopped, or the OP is wrong and actually right-wing horseshit. SBS said it is not a REAL issue, FAUX news says it is. Are you with Bernie or FAUX on this?

[CoffeeCat]

203. That's nice dear (nt)

[cui bono]

305. You're misinterpreting his words.

The complete thought was: "real issues facing the United States of America".

He was in a debate when he said that. He wanted to discuss the "real issues facing the United States of America" as in he wanted to discuss policy differences so people could make an informed decision about a candidate. He wanted to actually have a debate and do what one does in a debate, which is not speculating about ongoing investigations.

He didn't attack her because he thought, mistakenly, that the Democratic Primary was going to be a clean fight. He might not say the same thing today after all the shit Hillary has flung.

.

[polly7]

310. Yep. +1000. nt.

[truedelphi]

392. ^^^^^^^^^^^ n/t

[JudyM]

174. I've about given up on thinking that these "RW scandal" meme posters actually care about the truth.

Just hoping the FBI referral makes its way to DOJ within the next few weeks.

[VulgarPoet]

273. These people spin so hard you'd think they were trying for national office themselves. nt

[JudyM]

287. Yeah, WTH? Those who aren't actually being paid seem to be highly persuadable by those who are.

When it comes to actual facts, i.e., DOJ just told the FOIA court that a referral is being prepared re: Hillary's use of the private server, they either didn't read about that or they don't know what it means.

As a former government enforcement staffer, I know first hand the effort that goes into prepping a referral, and it isn't even started unless the decision has already been made that the case warrants DOJ's prosecution.

[uponit7771]

293. This is false

[La Lioness Priyanka]

86. This.

[Android3.14]

88. How do you know the right wing generated the site?

[IdaBriggs]

149. They didn't. PaulThompson has been a DUer since 2001.

His research is detailed, and his book was a "textbook" in Richard Clarke's anti-terrorism class at Harvard University.

[Fawke Em]

148. The fact that you think the FBI is controlled by Trey Gowdy is very quaint.

Wrong, but adorable all the same.

[JudyM]

170. Are Obama's DOJ and FBI right wing?

[840high]

206. Why don't you put the

blame where it belongs. RW did not do this, Hillary did.

[RandySF]

3. The last gasps of desperation are always the loudest.

[JoePhilly]

14. + 1

[libdem4life]

221. Now I'm getting it. The shorter the post, the less to really say.

Declarative, superior statements from emotion that bypass the brain before emerging.

Not one word to refute said "lies". Hmmm. Especially the video ones. "Who you going to believe, me or your lying eyes."

[Dem2]

4. I lol'd at you subject line, was sure it was tongue-in-cheek

Sadly no, more 'uggh' feeling in my gut as I scanned another angry screed.

[djean111]

5. Yup. Great OP, thanks for all that work.

I cannot vote for that. There is no bridge to fix.

[tonyt53]

6. Is this all that Bernie's supporters have left?

Desperation is in full display

[bjo59]

7. I'm afraid that no oversight at all will become the norm.

The majority of people who live in democratic societies have rarely noticed when their societies cease to be democratic. Democratic political systems require that the people perform their own oversight on their governments and that's too much effort for a lot of people. It doesn't help that the "fourth estate" (news media) has been almost wholly captured by corporate interests. I've read this timeline and another exhaustive one... you're right, it's big, it's ugly, and it's bad. I'm betting that if the FBI does recommend, theDoJ will not take it further (at the request of Obama), but we'll see. I'm utterly disgusted.

[tularetom]

52. Thats almost the case right now

The "checks and balances" provided by the US Constitution only work when they are exercised and that is only happening on a one way basis these days.

The media of course will not provide the oversight that the FF's anticipated because they have become tools for disseminating corporate/government propaganda instead of searchers for truth.

[pdsimdars]

9. I've looked into it a lot. There's lot of good facts online. And the more you learn the angrier

you get.

I remember someone telling a few stories of what other people faced. Like a sailor who sent a selfie from the submarine to his girlfriend only there was a sonar monitor in the background. He faces 20 years in prison. There were a couple of stories like that.
And Hillary left the emails of the highest security level on her unprotected server, where people's lives were at stake, because she didn't want to be "inconvenienced" with 2 devices. Oh boo-hoo.

LACK OF JUDGEMENT!!!!

[IdaBriggs]

25. Except she was carrying two devices already - she got an Ipad in 2010,

That was just another lie. She didn't want her records to be found under FOIA, so she was pulling a "Karl Rove" to hide them.

[pdsimdars]

45. Yes, that was another of her lies. . . I think she actually had 4 devices.

[Land of Enchantment]

94. Here is something of interest--peoples' lives have been ruined for less---

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/08/14/if-your-name-isnt-hillary-the-hammer-for-mishandling-secrets

-snip-

Peter Van Buren can’t wait for the court-ordered release of Hillary Clinton’s work emails from 2011, a nearly ruinous year for him that resulted in a negotiated retirement from the State Department.

The foreign affairs arm of the federal government, then led by Clinton, had accused the longtime foreign service officer of mishandling classified information and unsuccessfully asked the Justice Department to prosecute him.

“I cannot conceive any other person in government being able to do what she did without being punished,” he says. “Lots of people have lost their clearances, lost their jobs and in some cases lost their freedom and gone to jail” for allegedly being careless in protecting classified documents.

[haikugal]

331. No not convenience, she thinks she is answerable to no one. She will do ANYTHING to win.

[leftofcool]

10. Thank you for bringing this nutjob's work to DU

[IdaBriggs]

33. He's been a member since 2001 so saying "you're welcome"

is kind of redundant. He's also a published author, and his book "The Terror Timeline" was used as a source by Richard Clarke when he taught at Harvard. But please don't let facts interfere with your fantasy that "this is no big deal".

[pdsimdars]

47. They just seem to make stuff up and ignore any fact they don't agree with, just lik tea baggers

-- "if it isn't on FOX then it can't be true". They just won't hear it.

[notadmblnd]

216. But you know what? It's a good damn thing that they're here all day every day

posting their low info voter shit. Here they have absolutely no chance of changing anyone's mind. Out on the streets of the real world.....

[Maru Kitteh]

134. Sanders has said it's not a real issue.

Bernie Sanders hit the media hard on the faux Hillary Clinton email scandal, and he didn't hold back.

“Let me say something that may not be great politics, but the secretary is right -- and that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about the damn emails," Sanders thundered. "Enough of the emails, let's talk about the real issues facing the United States of America."

Huge applause, a partial standing ovation, and a handshake between the two.

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/10/sanders-enough-about-emails-lets-talk

[cui bono]

312. You're misinterpreting his words.

The complete thought was: "real issues facing the United States of America".

He was in a debate when he said that. He wanted to discuss the "real issues facing the United States of America" as in he wanted to discuss policy differences so people could make an informed decision about a candidate. He wanted to actually have a debate and do what one does in a debate, which is not speculating about ongoing investigations.

He didn't attack her because he thought, mistakenly, that the Democratic Primary was going to be a clean fight. He might not say the same thing today after all the shit Hillary has flung.

.

[TheKentuckian]

329. One shady person's investigation is insignificant to the real problems facing the country

Be she as innocent as a lamb or in full on Nixon mode just doesn't rate when we are talking about

The environment.

The blue gang running wild on killing sprees.

The flushing of the Bill of Rights.

Ownership of our own bodies.

Tax cuts, and corporate communism drowning the needs of the people.

Sovereignty, job, and wage killing "free trade" deals.

Corporate capture of our government.

A ruinous stupid and failed drug war eating away at the fabric of our society.

Crumbling and out of date infrastructure.

A gilded age wealth gap.

That's just to name a few things that are more important than Hillary Clinton's damn emails either way.

To say such does not absolve her or proclaim guilt, it takes no position other than we have far bigger fish to fry

I'm familiar with the idea of a Heliocentric universe but folks with a Hilliarycentric one need to do some serious thinking.

[MelissaB]

249. ***********People need to see this**********

[grasswire]

244. anyone got the jury results on this?

It has been alerted more than once.

[IdaBriggs]

255. I was sent a copy by one of the jurors; it survived 3-4 LEAVE IT.

On Mon May 2, 2016, 10:55 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

She's SUCH A LIAR. And she thinks people are STUPID.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511880685

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

We can support different candidates, but outright smears against Democrats should not stand.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon May 2, 2016, 11:08 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If you think it is merely an "outright smear," argue the facts in a reply.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Am I on DU or Free Republic? It is hard to tell sometimes.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's GD : P, folks. Dirtiest and most embarrassing playground on DU. Pull up your pants and come out swinging. DING!
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

[stonecutter357]

11. Most Admired Woman in World, Record 20th Time Gallup, December 2015.

[Human101948]

15. Trump ties with Pope Francis in U.S. poll for second most-admired man in the world

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/gallup-most-admired-poll-2015-217152

[Arugula Latte]

64. Lol.

[frylock]

99. Just goes to show what a lame distinction it truly is.

[GeorgeGist]

198. 13%

[TheKentuckian]

334. Gah! Dumbass Dubya is top 10. Carly The Outsourcer is high on the women's side too.

It think it is almost but not quite a most famous list more than actual admiration though I'm sure that also is part of the puzzle.

[bkkyosemite]

16. Only because the public has been hood winked.

[stonecutter357]

28. seems legit !

[JudyM]

40. +1000

[Android3.14]

93. Since when does popularity mean you are honest?

[frylock]

95. SQUIRREL!

[Logical]

348. Lol, you got owned! Nt

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

12. This post is even more Right Wing Propaganda...

Last edited Mon May 2, 2016, 11:49 AM - Edit history (1)

Oh, wait, Hillary is to the right on many issue.

OK, so it's Left Wing Propaganda...

NO, she needs people on the left to vote for her...

So it's just to the right of left somewhere near the center propaganda....

Make a left on Main Street and a right at the Diner...

Ohhhhh....

Never Mind.

[bkkyosemite]

13. I heard a great explanation today.

That she put in her home a private server as SOS because she did not want the details of her job as SOS to get out in the public because she knew she was going to run for President. It was already ordained when Obama took office. She did not want to have to have the public get a hold of her workings in the Dept when the vetting happened this election year. Absolutely an excellent explanation and most probably true.

[JudyM]

42. Agreed, and wondering if there is another believable explantation.

[polly7]

46. That's what I believe is part of it, too.

I also think that private server probably enabled Bill to help her out with making decisions - he knew all of the details on these countries and leaders already and was right there. jmho.

[bkkyosemite]

55. Yes that too because frankly she did not know what she was doing.

[JudyM]

89. Makes a lot of sense ...

Any idea if there is evidence of his advising her on things? I haven't seen anything about that.

[polly7]

107. I'm just speculating ..... based on the decades of them working together in their

Foundation, while in the WH, campaigning, etc. Just, for example, here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1610499

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1137195

Players he'd been associated with previously and part of events during her term.


And wrt their shared Foundation - http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016149370

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511180584#post2

Just a few things that make me think there's no way in hell he wasn't, though.

[JudyM]

118. Right, just wondering if that was a large part of the rationale for her exclusive use the private

server... I would feel better about her if it was.

[polly7]

173. Like I say, I really don't know ... but I just read this.

https://m.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/4h4l82/clintons_fbi_woes_tie_back_to_bill_clinton_and/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1881926




http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/27/monica-crowley-the-linchpin-of-the-fbis-hillary-cl/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1882037

[Kalidurga]

359. What if he did more than help on occasion like a lot of occasions?

Things like scheduling meetings and who to meet with. Things like writing emails. Something like hiring Sid. I think that could explain something about Hillary being confused at times.

[karynnj]

104. Sad that it is likely true and it accomplished exactly the opposite of what was intended

At this point, other than the small number of classified documents, we have seen all the emails she returned. Had she JUST ARCHIVED the email monthly at the State Department, no one would ever have known she had her own server.

None of the emails that would have been released - as they should have been - under FOIA or Congressional inquiries were significantly damaging. There was not anything intrinsically problematic. The problem was that SHE HID THEM FOR TWO YEARS AND ONLY RETURNED THEM when the SD demanded them.

This entire mess was the result of arrogance.

[COLGATE4]

140. Yep. I heard it too - on Free Republic. nt

[grasswire]

246. that explains a lot about you. nt

[COLGATE4]

259. Very intelligent reply.

How many hours did you need to think that up?

[arcane1]

265. Just wait until she privatizes the entire executive branch.

It will make W's administration seem wholly transparent by comparison.

[leftynyc]

17. Yipee

More right wing bullshit being pushed by supposed liberals. What a sewer this forum has become. The desperation from the the losing candidate's supporters smells positively rancid.

[tokenlib]

21. Not everything critical of the Clintons is a Right Wing Hit Job..

The arms deals approvals while Hillary was Sec'y of State and the donations to the Clinton foundation were not mere coincidences.....

[JudyM]

43. The blindness of some of her supporters here is deafening. Facts have no place among the

Indoctrinated. Pretty sad to witness this on this board.

[Maru Kitteh]

136. Sanders does not think it is a REAL issue. Fox does.

Bernie Sanders hit the media hard on the faux Hillary Clinton email scandal, and he didn't hold back.

“Let me say something that may not be great politics, but the secretary is right -- and that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about the damn emails," Sanders thundered. "Enough of the emails, let's talk about the real issues facing the United States of America."

Huge applause, a partial standing ovation, and a handshake between the two.

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/10/sanders-enough-about-emails-lets-talk


So yeah. It IS right-wing nuttery.

[pdsimdars]

260. He also said that there is some real trouble there but he doesn't want to talk about the ongoing

investigation.

[cui bono]

313. You're misinterpreting his words.

The complete thought was: "real issues facing the United States of America".

He was in a debate when he said that. He wanted to discuss the "real issues facing the United States of America" as in he wanted to discuss policy differences so people could make an informed decision about a candidate. He wanted to actually have a debate and do what one does in a debate, which is not speculating about ongoing investigations.

He didn't attack her because he thought, mistakenly, that the Democratic Primary was going to be a clean fight. He might not say the same thing today after all the shit Hillary has flung.

.

[COLGATE4]

146. Don't like to burst your baloon, but actually, they were. Congress, not the SOS

approves arms sales and that process takes many years. The Saudi arms deal was approved by Congress long before Clinton ever became SOS. So yes, it is a coincidence. Coincidence does not equal causation.

[creeksneakers2]

353. The donations and the arms deals had nothing to do with each other

For one thing, the Saudi donations were made before it was known Hillary would be secretary of state. While she was there, the Saudis made no donations at all. So no quid pro quo was possible.

The arms deal was a major foreign policy initiative that had the support of the White House and Pentagon from the beginning. Its inconceivable that Hillary would have not OKed it.

[truedelphi]

389. How much time passed

between when the donations were made and she became Secretary of State?

[creeksneakers2]

395. We don't know the exact dates

The donations came between 2001 and 2008. There was only a short time between when Hillary was asked to be secretary and when there was an agreement to stop accepting the donations. After Hillary left, the donations started again. All the policies that Clinton enemies have tried to claim came from graft have been continued under Secretary Kerry.

[Jitter65]

23. About to bust a gasket!!! nt

[amborin]

26. Thanks for the amazing work! How can anyone defend the blatant wrongdoings?

[pdsimdars]

51. What blows my mind is that they never try to defend her wrongdoing. Just like the

hard right wingers, they just attack the messenger somehow and that make it all OK for them.
Loco!

[CoffeeCat]

87. At this point, the Hillary supporters

make fools of themselves, attacking anyone who dares to discuss the facts of this FBI investigation against their Hillary.

They attack us.

They are not serious people.

What will they say when this becomes a crisis for our party, for this election and for our entire nation?

[IdaBriggs]

243. The "attack the messenger" syndrome is strong, but they can never refute.

I've been debating counting the "attack messenger" posts, but after a DUer shared this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107122402 I don't even want to bother.

[pdsimdars]

262. They want to make this a Democratic bubble just like the Fox News bubble for the right.

They want to try to shut out and discredit anything they don't agree with.
We only want to bring this to their attention because they need to think about it NOW rather then when the sh*t hits the fan.

[Dragonfli]

317. First alert stalking, now alert stalk SPAMMING tips? how low and obvious can one go? nt

[haikugal]

337. All coordinated in the Hillary group yet.

[Onlooker]

27. Bernie supporters are increasingly Republican

What a turnoff. To think that I actually gave Bernie my vote. Not only are his supporters too homogeneous in terms of age, race, and gender, they buy into the vast right wing conspiracy by reading interpretations of facts that play into the goals of the right wing. The sad thing is that if Bernie gets the nomination, unlikely as that is, the right wing will do the same thing to him -- election funding scandals, land scandals, tax scandals, Castro scandals, Sandinisata scandals, and so on, and these same narrow-minded Bernie supporters who so easily fall for anything anti-Hillary, will be dumbfounded. But, their arrogance will prevent them from learning a lesson.

[JudyM]

44. Is it possible that it's truth that's being exposed?

[Jester Messiah]

155. Unlike your Kissinger-loving Goldwater Girl? n/t

[Akicita]

176. So speaking out against perceived corruption in your own party is a Republican trait?

I don't think so.

As a Bernie supporter, I hope Hillary is cleared by a honest investigation. As an American and Democrat, I think the matter should be investigated thoroughly in an honest fashion for the sake of our country and party. If she is guilty she needs to go. Again, for the the sake of our party and country.

[Onlooker]

226. Perceiving it as corruption is the Republican trait

No, Hillary's email scandal does not involve corruption. It involved her legally using private email, and Republicans and their puppets using that fact to create an excuse to start a witch hunt by perusing through every one of her emails, hoping she made a mistake. Frankly, I'm sure they could do that with any lawmakers emails. Maybe they should look through all of Bernie's public and private emails and see if he made a mistake? Perhaps we would get insight into why he did such a bad job providing oversight to the VA hospital system.

[Akicita]

232. Obama's Justice Dept. is conducting an investigation, not a witch hunt.

[Duppers]

269. Your first point alone is incorrect.

Too homogeneous in terms of age?Time after time DUers over 50, including myself, have posted in droves saying they support Bernie.

And RW conspiracy?! Facts are facts. The reporters exposing this are lefties.

[Uncle Joe]

29. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, IdaBriggs.

[yourpaljoey]

30. It is one thing to have a career of evil, another to document it play by play

[thesquanderer]

31. To a couple of your points...

re:

"SHE LIED UNDER OATH <== Did she learn NOTHING from the impeachment of her husband about how seriously that is viewed? "

Maybe she learned you could get away with it.

re:

SHE MIGHT BE AN IDIOT <== On what planet would someone think communication between the United States Secretary of State and the Four Star General Commander of United States Central Command wasn't classified?

Can we assume they were too busy to be trading Lolcats?

This one I could cut some slack on. Too busy for Lolcats, okay, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be other non classified communication between the two of them. Even high level professional people will talk about things like how the food was at some restaurant, whether they will be attending an event, congratulations on something, whatever...

But yeah, there's a lot of eyebrow-raising info gathered together at that site.

[FreakinDJ]

32. This isn't going to end well for Hillary

I'm sure one of her staffers will try to fall on a sword for her but doubt it will do any good

[SidDithers]

34. The right hates Hillary. The fringe left hates Hillary...

and posts like this prove that there's not a dimes worth of difference between them.

Sid

[Arugula Latte]

71. "not a dime's worth of difference between them" ...

That "fringe" as you so condescendingly call a large portion of the party has progressive, traditional FDR Democratic goals like improving the well being of the poor and middle class, and maybe preventing the planet from completely melting down. The other side doesn't thinks Hillary should be even more warlike, hawkish, rightwing, Neocon, and corporatist. Other than that, though, yeah, they're pretty much exactly the same.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

137. Traditional FDR Democratic goals?

Like keeping segregation in place and locking up Japanese-Americans in internment camps?

[grasswire]

248. Canadians don't care about FDR. nt

[apnu]

35. You know who are terrible criminals? Bush and Cheney.

But nobody gives a fuck. They lied, people died. But we've got our panties in a wad over emails that may or may not have been classified at that time that may or may not have been compromised but no evidence at all suggests compromise happened.

Is it bad judgement on Hillary's part? Yes. Is it bad that she didn't follow rules and procedures? Yes. Its it true that those rules and procedures are an impediment to doing her job? Yes. Does that excuse her continued use of a private email sever to conduct State busness? No.

But does any of that compare to the fucking Iraq War and the rise of ISIS? No. So check your rage and incredulity and keep it at an appropriate level. This whole post makes it out like Hillary Clinton was skinning babies or something.

[IdaBriggs]

49. "No evidence suggests --" WRONG. Which is one of the MANY

reasons this is beyond upsetting.

His name is "Guccifer" and he started posting screen shots of the emails between Sidney Blumenthal and Hillary Clinton online a few years ago.

Here is a story about him, with links you can follow to see them -- http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2013/03/19/guccifer-hacker-hillary-clinton-sidney-blumenthal-george-hw-bush/2001429/

You can also view his Wikipedia page. He has been extradited here to the United States and it has been leaked that he is going to be a witness because he read them.

Let me repeat that: Blumenthal was getting information from CIA and NSA sources he shouldn't have been able to get, sending it to someone who should have reported the security leaks, and a hacker was not only reading those communications, but also posting them on the Internet.



ON EDIT: And yes, I care about Bush/Cheney, who SHE SUPPORTED. I actually wonder if they were part of the deal Obama had to make...paranoia, maybe?

[apnu]

58. This is did not know.

I will look at it and consider it. Thank you for telling me.

[IdaBriggs]

135. My apologies if I was snapping at you.

Keeping track of this mess is like plotting out a Tom Clancy novel!

Sigh. Two months ago, I was saying "60 thousand emails - sounds like she worked hard!" Now I am waiting for the hammer to fall and praying it happens sooner rather than later.

[apnu]

147. LOL! Its all good.

We're fine.

Its a mess, yes. And I desire to get to the bottom of it and correct mistakes and prevent them from happening again in the future.

But we know that, no matter what, she won't see jail time because of a lot of things. She is establishment, yes. She has privilege, yes. The situation is murky, therefore ripe for lawyers and wrangling, yes.

Bernie is probably toast, that's the truth of it. Indictment or no, the window is closing and closing fast. Hillary has a 99% chance of locking up the nomination. She will be the only thing preventing a Trump Presidency.

And though I'm loath to say it, I'd hate to have President Trump because Hillary goes to jail. So I'm kinda OK with her not going to jail if it prevents Trump being President.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[KoKo]

375. ...!

[JudyM]

50. We totally, absolutely care about Bush/Cheney. We are still waiting for investigation and

prosecution on that front. Problem is, this will get nowhere if Hillary wins the election because she's allied with shrub. There is actually a chance that under a sanders administration this would be pursued.

[pdsimdars]

56. Exactly, this is why we need a TRUE Democrat with real integrity, not just another DNC Democrat

Obama didn't go after war criminals or Wall Street criminals, but he did prosecute more people under the espoinage act than all other presidents combined and those people were journalists and whistle blowers. You know, people . . as opposed to the rich and powerful he protected

[apnu]

57. Has Bernie stated he will prosecute W and Dick for war crimes?

Because if he doesn't, I'm sorry, he's no different than Hillary or Obama on this.

[Autumn]

60. I hate to have to tell you this but Bush and Cheney aren't running again. And the

democrats decided that what they did was just fucking fine and dandy.

[apnu]

63. I know, it pisses me off. (nt)

[SunSeeker]

78. Autumn, "the democrats" as you call us don't think what Bush & Cheney did was "fine and dandy."

I know you don't really believe what you just said. You lose credibility when you say over the top stuff like that. This whole thread reflects badly on Sanders supporters.

[Autumn]

85. Bullshit. Nancy impeachments off the table Pelosi and Barack we tortured some folks Obama

brushed that shit off like shooing flies off honey. If anything reflects badly about this whole sordid mess it's on the democrats. Credibility? Don't fucking preach about credibility and say the truth is over the top and ignore that the democrats legitimized what Bush and Cheney did.

[SunSeeker]

185. Pelosi foregoing impeachment is very different from thinking Bush/Chaney were "fine and dandy."

You're angry. I get it. That is no reason to bash "the democrats."

[pdsimdars]

263. Totally agree with you here.

[frylock]

105. Then why use poor decisions made by Bush and Cheney to excuse Hillary's poor judgment?

You see it here every damn day.

[Akicita]

189. Hillary had the same poor judgement on the same topic as Bush-Cheney. The Iraq War.

[Autumn]

242. Constantly. nt

[frylock]

102. "But nobody gives a fuck."

Correction: Congressional Democrats and our Democratic President don't give a fuck. Take your complaints to Nancy "Impeachment is off the table" Pelosi and Barack "Forward" Obama.

[Ino]

253. Oh, an argument in the grand Clinton tradition...

Reminds me of this one...

In a statement reminiscent of her claim that she took money from Wall Street because of the 9/11 attacks, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told a crowd, “If we broke up the big banks tomorrow, would that end racism? Would that end sexism?”

BTW, Hillary had something to do with the fucking Iraq War and the rise of ISIS.

[arcane1]

268. DU was unanimously against BushCo's use of private @rnc.com email addresses for official business.

And Clinton was in full support of the invasion of Iraq, and even later praised it as a "business opportunity."

Birds of a feather.

[TheKentuckian]

338. Remember when we supported government transparency and accountability to the public?

Now "we" want the government sifting through ours in dragnet fashion and for officials to decide what of theirs acting in official capacity they want to dole out.

Just like campaign finance reform where now our "allies" are using fucking verbatim the right wing argument for pouring money into politics essentially show me the video of the bag of money and the Pol then holding the paid for by the Koch Brother sign while making a vote with clear and direct benefit.

[TheKentuckian]

335. We aren't the ones foolishly looking forward, that took impeachment off the table, or

stupidly voted to support said dumbass war.

My recollection was protesting it and arguing vehemently against it while being called every nasty kind of treasonous shit by idiots some of which I have no doubt are trying to act like they know jack shit and are "pragmatic progressives" now. Particularly these new school white washers.

If one is even slightly attempting to polish this turd with the benefit of hindsight, I guaran gawddamn tee that said peckerwood motherfucker was Gung Ho in real time.

[LanternWaste]

36. these allegations and pretensions will become more trendy and fashionable as July 25th looms closer.

No doubt, these allegations and pretensions will become more trendy and fashionable as July 25th looms closer. Fashion serves a purpose though... like parachute pants and members only jackets, they will allow us great bemusement after the fact.

[pdsimdars]

59. Spoken by someone who clearly doesn't have a clue about the issue, and has obviously

not done any actual research into it. Just another shallow opinion. How clever.

[leftofcool]

62. Pretty much like yours

[CoffeeCat]

125. These flippant talking points are becoming

more silly and bizarre, as people learn about what Hillary did.

At some point, the Hillary supporters are going to have to put on their big-girl pants and do some research.

Until they learn the basic facts, they'll continue with their "This is such a right-wing attack!" garbage.

[Maru Kitteh]

141. You should ask Bernie if it's a real issue. WAIT - here he is on that very subject!

Bernie Sanders hit the media hard on the faux Hillary Clinton email scandal, and he didn't hold back.

“Let me say something that may not be great politics, but the secretary is right -- and that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about the damn emails," Sanders thundered. "Enough of the emails, let's talk about the real issues facing the United States of America."

Huge applause, a partial standing ovation, and a handshake between the two.

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/10/sanders-enough-about-emails-lets-talk

[pdsimdars]

264. AS you keep posting this OLD nonsense, he has since made a bit different statenemts about it

I urge him to bring it up. It is an important issue for the Democratic party to think about in choosing their nominee. She would be "historic" in two ways, the first woman and the first person under CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION BY THE FBI. Woo-hoo. What an honor!

Oh, and FYI, BTW, etc. we Bernie supporters have minds of our own. Just because Bernie may say something, it isn't our catechism. I have urged them to bring it up more. That's called not being a sheep.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. SMH

[xloadiex]

39. K&R

IdaBriggs, I always enjoy your posts and look forward to reading your informative POV.

[Tarc]

48. A shame this skated by a jury 3-4

But it's only a matter of time...

[JudyM]

61. Posting investigative facts is a problem for you?

[Tarc]

65. "Investigate facts" more suited for the Free Republic or Newsmax, sure

[frylock]

117. What part of the timeline is in dispute?

[JudyM]

152. Because nothing negative about her could be factually accurate.

[Tarc]

154. Nothing about the puffed-up Emailgate is, no

Keep trying to look for an 11th-hour miracle to propel your man to the nomination. We have lots of popcorn.

[JudyM]

162. You may find yourself gagging on that popcorn when the "referral" that DOJ announced is forthcoming

makes its way to them from the FBI.

FBI wouldn't be wasting resources if there was nothing there. And DOJ said the referral (which means a case prepared for prosecution, BTW) concerns Clinton's use of her email server, not someone else's use of it on her staff. You may have missed that news late last week?

I hope for all of our sakes that it's before the convention so we can understand the lay of the land.

[Tarc]

166. The lengths Camp sanders will go to hijack an election are truly extraordinary

Keep trying, tho.

[JudyM]

169. FBI and DOJ aren't camp sanders... Back to class for you...

[Tarc]

171. They are just doing their due diligence

It's little fanboy Sandernistas that push the story for political gain. Hell, there isn't even much chatter about Emailgate in GOP circles anymore.

Chomp, chomp!

[JudyM]

180. If it was "just due diligence", DOJ wouldn't have told the FOIA court that there was a *referral*

Last edited Mon May 2, 2016, 04:19 PM - Edit history (1)

forthcoming from FBI about her use of the server... You are clearly not reading or not understanding how the indictment process works. A referral is a lot of work and is not done unless there are grounds to prosecute. Head in the sand or glasses not on, one of the two. But enough here. You will see sooner rather than later, hopefully.

[Tarc]

183. Such a little tryhard, it is endearing.

But, seeing how the math no longer works out for The Bern, I guess this is your only avenue left.

Chomp, chomp, chomp! (upto 3 now!)

[frylock]

187. I think I'm going to enjoy watching your breakdown most of all.

This much denial is going to make accepting that indictment very difficult to absorb.

[Tarc]

192. That's a cool story, bro

Looks like Camp Sanders is finally coming to terms with the failures of #berniemath, so this appears to be the last card in the deck; Emailgate.

Good luck with that.

[frylock]

196. Yep. Going to really enjoy that breakdown.

[grasswire]

251. yes, it will be a good day when the professionals are faced with the truth in print.

I'm actually looking forward to the next several months. Many trolls will disappear here. The most antagonistic and vitriolic of them will have to start kicking their dogs again and pulling the wings off flies to get the jollies they are getting now by turning Democrats against each other.

[Jester Messiah]

158. Facts are facts. n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

144. Bernie says it's not a real issue but FOX sure is on it, so yes. It's right-wing bullshit.

Bernie Sanders hit the media hard on the faux Hillary Clinton email scandal, and he didn't hold back.

“Let me say something that may not be great politics, but the secretary is right -- and that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about the damn emails," Sanders thundered. "Enough of the emails, let's talk about the real issues facing the United States of America."

Huge applause, a partial standing ovation, and a handshake between the two.

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/10/sanders-enough-about-emails-lets-talk

[JudyM]

157. Bernie wanted to focus on the main campaign issues at that time. He never said the investigation

was unimportant, but rather that the FBI was proceeding and to let that continue. You may have misunderstood him.

[Maru Kitteh]

172. You may have misread the actual transcript because he said

Bernie Sanders hit the media hard on the faux Hillary Clinton email scandal, and he didn't hold back.

“Let me say something that may not be great politics, but the secretary is right -- and that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about the damn emails," Sanders thundered. "Enough of the emails, let's talk about the real issues facing the United States of America."

Huge applause, a partial standing ovation, and a handshake between the two.

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/10/sanders-enough-about-emails-lets-talk

let's talk about the real issues

Not "let's talk about the 'other' issues"

Not "let's talk about the 'main' issues"

So either he flip-flopped, or the OP is wrong and actually right-wing horseshit. SBS said it is not a REAL issue, FAUX news says it is. Are you with Bernie or FAUX on this?

[frylock]

190. A lot of information has come to light since that first debate.

That was before Hillary's IT guy was granted immunity.

[deathrind]

200. Thank you.

This issues is in the FBI's hands between them and HRC and not something Bernie can do anything about so to him it is not a campaign issue like, healthcare, environment, income inequality, foreign policy etc.

He was certainly not saying the issue was unimportant.

[JudyM]

275. Exactly. Quite a few folks here understood his statement to be a far broader dismissal than it was.

[Akicita]

209. As a Bernie supporter I'd have to say Bernie was wrong to say this is not a real issue.

This is not a RW or LW investigation. It is a FBI investigation. They report to Obama's Justice Department. President Obama has promised not to interfere. The FBI appear to be taking this investigation very seriously. Who knows if they will recommend an indictment or not but it is certainly a possibility. There's a lot of smoke for there to be no fire. For sure it is a real issue at least until we see the results of the investigation.

[frylock]

120. A shame you can't deal with information.

[Tarc]

150. This Free Republic-style info, bro

[frylock]

179. No, this is Paul Thompson, long-time DUer and respected author.

Again, it's unfortunate that you can't deal with uncomfortable truths. But perhaps you'd like to take a crack at debunking Mr Thompson's timeline?

[Tarc]

182. Hoping for an 11th-hour miracle

Last edited Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:48 PM - Edit history (1)

Doesn't matter if he's been here for 10 minutes or 10 years.

Good luck with that, tho.

[frylock]

184. I'm shocked to find no debunking, and more ad-hom attacks.

[grasswire]

254. you sound jealous of Paul.

He's actually getting something done for America.

You, OTOH...............

[Tarc]

256. Lol, he's getting you all to clap really really hard for the Indictment Fairy, is all

Just like that!

[grasswire]

258. and you can't even get a "hell yes" here.

Jealous.

[truedelphi]

390. You think he spent an hour or two writing this up a week ago?

It was a mostly finished piece of work several months ago.

And he had to have devoted a lot of time to it.

So don't see how it has to do with any last minute miracle.

[Tarc]

394. Why/how are you dredging up month-old threads?

[840high]

208. Truth bothers you?

[Gothmog]

53. Do you tire of being wrong?

Thank you for the laughs. I do not have to go to the Free Republic to find the latest CT

[BootinUp]

67. A master template for over the top anti hillary screeds

well done.

[bkkyosemite]

81. It's pretty well laid out. She did something that others were indicted for. You don't mess with

secret stuff on a non secret server!

[BootinUp]

91. just another unjustified rw witchhunt in the illustory Clinton legacy

[bkkyosemite]

92. Not!

[Akicita]

219. This hunt is not RW. It is Obama's FBI and Obama's Dept. of Justice. Obama is not RW.

And I don't think it is a witch hunt. I don't believe Obama's Justice Dept. would conduct a witch hunt against a Democratic candidate for president and his former SOS. Do you?

[BootinUp]

220. Sure it is. It is a direct result of the House Select Committee on Benghazi nt

[Akicita]

229. They may have uncovered that Hillary was using a secret private server for her SOS emails but

Obama's Justice Dept. is conducting an investigation, not a witch hunt.

[BootinUp]

233. The Benghazi Committee spread lies and twisted the facts to gin up the hate. Most of what people

think they know is some variation or version of those lies. But you can continue to hope the wingers succeed in stopping her campaign all you want. Its just not going to happen.

[Akicita]

235. The FBI doesn't care about Benghazi Committee lies or twisted facts or ginning up hate. They are

doing their own investigation(not witch hunt). If she is found innocent of wrongdoing then she is good to go. If not then she's gotta go.

[BootinUp]

236. Its benign. Just like Obama has indicated. nt

[Akicita]

289. I hope so. We'll see.

[emulatorloo]

281. The hunt is not RW. But Fox News spin is.

Some seem to confuse Fox News "opinion" with the FBI.

Nobody but the FBI knows what's coming, and they don't seem to be leaking anything.

[Akicita]

290. Good point. We'll have to wait and see. People on here saying the FBI is conducting a witch hunt are

wrong though. It's a serious investigation. Who knows what will come of it.

[pdsimdars]

266. Keep laughing . . . until you actually know something. Well smugged.

[sharp_stick]

75. I LOVE USING CAPS TOO

IT PROVES THAT I REALLY MEAN EVERY STUPID THING I TYPE...WELL DONE!!!111!!111!1!!

[FlatBaroque]

113. That's nice, dear. Here are some crayons

and a piece of paper. Make a nice drawing until recess, OK?

[sharp_stick]

123. I don't see any crayons...

I'll look over here behind the free college and stuff.

[pdsimdars]

267. You're one of the attitudes with empty facts that just scream "ignore me"

Buh bye

[sharp_stick]

272. OH NO!

How shall I ever survive? Some berniebro I've never heard of is going to put me on ignore. So long berniebro, I'll miss you.

[johnp3907]

83. I know a LIAR and an IDIOT when I see one.

Ever hear the term "Useful Idiot?"

[Mesee]

84. Hillary and her emails.

I have met Paul Thompson on several occasions throughout the last decade. He is 100% Progressive. Paul is dedicated to learning the Truth and is one of the last investigative researchers. He obtains all of his information from main stream media. He is brilliant, dedicated, and is to be taken seriously. Scholars continue to use his works in Academia.

[leftofcool]

101. LMAO

[frylock]

119. The fuck are you laughing at?

[grasswire]

307. you are embarrassing yourself...

....and your mother as well.

[Logical]

340. Bookmarked to see if you are laughing later! LOL. nt

[Logical]

349. You seem to take an ass kicking a lot. Nt

[Mesee]

191. Hillary and her emails.

Thank you for your wonderful post.

[pdsimdars]

270. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Amen! ^^^^^^^^^^^

[truedelphi]

391. He strikes me as being exactly as what you said. Thank you1 n/t

[OKNancy]

96. DU is going to be getting your $5.00

[bbgrunt]

97. thanks Ida. Her "bad judgment" is epic.

[seabeyond]

103. You title certainly surprises me. I didn't think you were so over the top.

[Buzz Clik]

106. get a grip. For the love of God.

[Bobbie Jo]

108. Goodness.

[TheCowsCameHome]

111. Orange. Pant. Suit.

Make it happen.

[pdsimdars]

271. Thanks for the image.

[beachbumbob]

112. Sanders is bs'ing his supporters and duping them out of their money...

[Petrushka]

116. Thanks for the reminder, beachbumbob.

Time for another donation.

[TheCowsCameHome]

127. Another timely PSA from the DU Donation PD.

Thank you.

Not.

[Petrushka]

114. For heaven's sake, methinks some of her supporters don't understand (or care) what's true.

For instance:

If those supporters insist that Hillary had an opportunity to vote for one and one only trade bill while in the Senate and she voted against it (CAFTA); and if someone brought to their attention Hillary's own statement in the Congressional Record wherein she says she voted for EVERY trade agreement while in the Senate but opposed CAFTA; should those Hillary supporters appreciate knowing the facts? Nope. Not having any of it.

They are adamant that Bernie Sanders lied about Hillary's voting record re: trade agreements . . . because, they say, she had only one opportunity to vote on a trade bill and that was CAFTA. I guess that means either that Hillary was telling a big fib in the Congressional Record or that some of her supporters wouldn't know the truth or a fact if it bit 'em on th' backside.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107122063




As you might have guessed by now, I have been ejected from the Hillary Hidyhole hereabouts.

[PatSeg]

115. Oh my

I think I wandered onto The Free Republic site by mistake. The GOP thanks you for doing their work for them.

[LenaBaby61]

126. Thank Goodness ....

Hillary Clinton is on a pathway to wrapping up the nomination.

June can't come soon enough for this Hillary Clinton supporter

[PatSeg]

131. I am a Democrat

and though I have issues with both of the candidates, I am not going to tear either of them down and end up voting begrudgingly in November. I am trying to keep my focus on getting as many Democrats in office as possible. Going after Hillary or Bernie is such a waste of time and energy.

The ugliness of this election season has kept me away from DU a lot this year. Don't we have enough republicans to attack? We have to eat our own? Yes, I think I'd like to go into a coma until it is all over.

[pdsimdars]

274. Then tell me Mr. Democrat,

What is it that you are supporting? What!

[PatSeg]

282. I am supporting a Democrat in the White House

AND as many Democrats in the House and Senate as possible AND Democrats in state and local offices.

I think Democrats had a poor choice of candidates this time around and not nearly enough. I am not a huge fan of Hillary and though I love Bernie, I am not sure he is a strong enough candidate for a general. What I am sure of however, is Hillary very likely could be our nominee and I don't think we should be doing the republicans' work for them. I can't remember such an ugly election season.

[pdsimdars]

284. And of course, just like ALL of the Hillary supporter, you have no reason for supporting her

other than "I'm supporting her." Excuse me for thinking it should be a bit deeper than that. I take it seriously.

[PatSeg]

324. Excuse me,

I am NOT a Hillary supporter. I think I made it quite clear that I will support whoever is the Democratic nominee. Meanwhile, I think the focus should be on the House, the Senate, and other down-ballot races, as whoever is in the White House cannot accomplish much without Democratic support.

I don't appreciate being pigeonholed by someone who only knows me by a post on the Internet. I take politics very seriously, but I am not going to get down in the mud like so many people I see lately.

[frylock]

121. The level of denial from Hillary Supporter has reached epic proportions.

[840high]

212. +100

[J_J_]

122. Hillary people/DNC are handing the election to Trump

This will all go viral just as soon as the convention ends

[ismnotwasm]

124. Ah. Classic displacement

[pacalo]

138. Bookmarking for later reading...

Thanks, Ida!

[pnwmom]

139. If you had written 55,000 emails, do you think you might have forgotten ten

that weren't even classified at the time?

That guy has been peddling a book here. And you bought it.

[frylock]

186. It's hard work.

[grasswire]

308. that's what you said about Edward Snowden and his truth. nt

[pnwmom]

309. Link, please. n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

145. some people are stupid. conspiracy theorists and the like are particularly dumb.

people who believe right wing lies are dumb.

people who can't do math are pretty dumb.

some people are just not as bright as they think they are (#dunningkruger)

[Maru Kitteh]

151. I guess SBS himself is under the bus on this one, given that he said it's not a real issue

Bernie Sanders hit the media hard on the faux Hillary Clinton email scandal, and he didn't hold back.

“Let me say something that may not be great politics, but the secretary is right -- and that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about the damn emails," Sanders thundered. "Enough of the emails, let's talk about the real issues facing the United States of America."

Huge applause, a partial standing ovation, and a handshake between the two.

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/10/sanders-enough-about-emails-lets-talk

[La Lioness Priyanka]

156. That's probably because he's not dumb

[pdsimdars]

276. I know

The Obama administration, the justice Department, the FBI, FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, the NYT. . . EVERYONE is in on the conspiracy but Hillary. Sound implausible? That's because it IS!! DUH!

[ucrdem]

160. Now your second point I might consider . . .

Just kidding. It's going to be okay.

[pdsimdars]

277. Always the same . . . .

[MineralMan]

163. Anyone have a tip on how to clean spittle from the INSIDE of my display screen?

I can barely read posts any longer. Or do I need to just buy a new monitor?

[840high]

213. Borrow a cloth from Hillary.

[BootinUp]

215. .

[rladdi]

164. What Clinton did was part of her job, whether anyone like the emails or not.

The most treasonist people we have had in our government recently are Republicans. But they tend to get away with those acts. The media never discuss or publishes them. And in Fact, Americans are used to the Republican being dishonest and lying to us. It part of their culture. G. Bush and D. Cheney is a prime example of treason while in office. outright lying to world leaders and Congress so they could invade Iraq. Both should have been charged and hang.
Then we have the felons and criminals that the Republicans move from state to state to get elected to office, moving them so there backgrounds get hidden.
Hillary is an angel compare to many of the Republicans serving in our government, or should I say, getting elected for lifetime pensions, good benefits and salary and doing nothing. Most of the Republicans in office now are doing nothing but blocking Obama while he serves as our President.

All of the email that are now confidential was not confidential at the time she served. They were marked since she has left office. This is all part of the GOP conspiracy.

[IdaBriggs]

178. If I can "prove" that "now confidential/was not confidential at the time"

is a lie, will you believe this isn't a conspiracy by the GOP?

[pdsimdars]

278. Ah, don't even ask, he obviously doesn't have a clue. . .

[2cannan]

231. Regarding classified materials

From the timeline:
http://thompsontimeline.com/The_Clinton_Email_Scandal_-_Medium_Version_-_Part_1

snip

January 21, 2009 - February 1, 2013: In her time as secretary of state, Clinton uses only her private email account on her private server for all her work and personal emails. There are 62,320 emails sent to or from her [e-mail] address, which is an average of 296 a week, or nearly 1,300 a month. Clinton will later claim that roughly half of these (31,830) were private in nature and she will delete them before investigators can look at them. The Washington Post will later explain, "Most of her emails were routine, including those sent to friends. Some involved the coordination of efforts to bring aid to Haiti by the State Department and her husband's New York-based Clinton Foundation - notes that mixed government and family business, the emails show. Others involved classified matters. State Department and Intelligence Community officials have determined that 2,093 email chains contained classified information. Most of the classified emails have been labeled as 'confidential,' the lowest level of classification. Clinton herself authored 104 emails that contained classified material, a Post analysis later found." (The Washington Post, 3/27/2016) Twenty-two of her emails will later be determined to be classified "top secret" or even higher than top secret in some cases, due to the mention of highly secretive SAP, or secret access programs. (The New York Times, 1/29/2016)

[AzDar]

168. K & R

[MFM008]

201. whatever

[deathrind]

202. Thank you Ida.

Great post. 👍🍻👀

[Progressive dog]

204. I love conspiracy theories, I just don't like the people who spread them

It is amazing what plots can be unfolded if truth doesn't matter and you let your imagination run wild.

[randome]

261. With the power of Hate, all things are possible.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[pdsimdars]

280. Like I keep saying to this "conspiracy theory" nonsense meme

The Obama Administration, the DoJ, the FBI, FOX, CBS, ABC, NBC, the NYT, etc. ALL in on the "conspiracy". Everyone in on it except Hillary.
Sound implausible? Duh!

[Progressive dog]

296. Initials of news organizations

that reported that Hillary had a server with e-mails on it are not the same as the conspiracy theory about Hillary posted in the OP. Of course the first thing conspiracy theorists do is try to gain legitimacy by using "authority" to back them up. Usually the "authority" didn't actually draw the conclusions or embroider the facts as they do. They rely on others accepting their word.

[Mike Nelson]

222. This wins...

...the Ugly Post of the Day contest. The little head-banger icon is going to suffer permanent brain damage. The "email scandal" is an overblown witch hunt. Is this DU or a site for Donald Trump?

[dem in texas]

225. ho-hum

did you get your training from the White Water posters, look what it got them .... a big fat zero. Don't waste your time ready this post.

[anigbrowl]

228. Could you use more CAPS, *bold & italic text*, and smilies?

I always find it really amusing when people try to be convincing by jacking the typography up to 11. Deep down you know there's nothing here but someone how you think that making the words look more important that the arguments you're making will somehow become persuasive.

[grasswire]

238. AND THIS --- she disrespected Obama in the most callous, cynical way.

She ran a rogue foreign policy out of sight of him, using specifically an advisor who had been banned from advising his administration by Obama himself.

In doing so, she risked Obama's presidency. It is still at risk due to her.

She either thought so little of Obama or thought herself so superior to him that she ran her own shop right under his nose, and bamboozled him. She bamboozled him.

[LiberalArkie]

245. K&R

[Autumn Colors]

247. Thank you, IdaBriggs!

Not only for the content of the thread and the link to the timeline (!!!), but this thread also allowed me to add a whole lot more people to my ignore list.

[pdsimdars]

283. Me too on that 'ignore' list thing.

And they seem to get crazier and crazier. Totally unhinged from reality.

[840high]

342. me3

[disillusioned73]

252. K&R...

[link:|

[randome]

257. Hatred will consume you. Get better.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[MissDeeds]

279. The truth will set you free

Learn the facts.

[emulatorloo]

286. Best to avoid Fox News then.

As you won't find truth there. They and their cohorts are the only ones pushing the 'she will be indicted' meme.

FBI is doing its job and they aren't leaking to the press. That's the fact.

All the rest is Fox News-based spin.

[MissDeeds]

292. Cheap shot

Apparently that is all you have. You need to educate yourself. The following is a good place to start.


http://thompsontimeline.com/IS_CLINTON%27S_EMAIL_SCANDAL_FOR_REAL%3F

[emulatorloo]

295. Not really. Fox "experts" have a long history of lying about Democrats.

They are talking out of their asses as they always do.

Again, the FBI is investigating. Fox News is speculating and spinning.

When the FBI is done, we'll hear about their finding.

Have a nice day.

[MissDeeds]

297. Your comments are unwarranted and offensive

I have never watched Fox News in my life, but apparently you are better informed about them and their agenda than I am.

We need to nominate the BEST candidate for 2016; one who is ethical, who has a record of being consistent and who does not have decades of "scandals" and baggage swirling around them, much of their own making.

It's difficult to believe that you are a true Bernie supporter who does not know the very basic and well documented issues that make his primary opponent a less favorable candidate.

Really, I have nothing further to say to you....

[emulatorloo]

300. I didn't mean to be offensive. Truly sorry and apologize.

Of course I know you aren't a fox viewer. Yes I was being flippant and jokey. That was wrong and For that I apologize.

Yes we are on the same side, I just have a different opinion of where this is going than you and Ida do.

Take care

[pdsimdars]

285. Thanks for the thread. Quite a can you've opened up here, but it is so very important

that this get discussed DURING the primary instead of when it is too late.

[joshcryer]

288. This reads like a Trump campaign speech.

Trump has recently taken to calling her "crooked Hillary," saying she's a criminal, demanding an indictment, etc. You even use words like "ugly" and "bad."

The reality is that none of this is happening and this is pure hyperbole. Of course Clinton doesn't know technical crap. Of course it was a mistake to do what Secretaries before her did without remembering that literally every thing she does or says is scrutinized to death.

[LisaM]

294. How is a post saying that many DUers are stupid

allowed to stand? How? I find this completely toxic.

[TheDormouse]

298. "Did she learn NOTHING"--She learned you get off with just a wrist-tap

That's pretty much the story of the Clintons going way back.

Call 'em Teflon Bill & Hill or The Comeback Kids--your choice.

[TheDormouse]

299. You're blaming her for poor judgment/incompetence

Who told her that the company she chose to safeguard her servers was qualified and would be reliable handling highly classified material?

Why did she trust whomever it was that told her that?

[TheDormouse]

301. But can they prove she deliberately attempted

to obstruct justice?
Or that she knowingly and willfully handled material that was classified at the time in a way in contravention of law?

Can they prove she did this knowingly?

[JonathanRackham]

302. Those opposed?

[Demsrule86]

303. He is a Bernie supporter

Read his stuff ...don't believe a word of it...just another 9-11 guy.

[VOX]

306. What a steaming pile of horse-flop...

With "liberals" like these, who needs Republicans?

[Loki]

311. Garbage in, garbage out.

A waste of time and certainly won't accomplish anything except proving again that those who will believe anything, will believe anything.

[Dragonfli]

315. K&R

[seabeyond]

316. Your title alone is really disgusting and I have had to look at it all day.

[mrdmk]

318. K & R, the correct people are seeing this post and responding n/t

[Matariki]

319. If the general election is Trump vs Clinton

and indictment comes *after* the primary, leading to a President Trump... a pox on the heads of every damn fool who stuck those heads in the sand crying 'lalala conspiracy Benghazi lalala'. Because this is obviously a big problem.

[840high]

343. Yep. Watch - if Trump wins

they'll blame everyone except Hillary.

[Buzz cook]

320. Your first bullet point

SHE MIGHT BE AN IDIOT <== On what planet would someone think communication between the United States Secretary of State and the Four Star General Commander of United States Central Command wasn't classified?

Sorry buddy but Freedom of Information requests are made all the tie for communications of both the SOC and every other government official. Even though you think it should be a memo about a lunch date is not classified.

[Jim Lane]

341. Thank you for addressing the substance.

I admit I've only skimmed most of the comments in this long thread -- but, as far as I've noticed, all the criticisms before yours are complete rubbish. I don't mean that they make bad arguments. I mean that they don't make any arguments at all. They just say this is the kind of stuff you might find on Free Republic or Fox, or that it helps Trump, or that it shows Bernie's supporters desperation, the like. Not one of these "points", even if accurate, goes to the truth of any of the particulars in the OP.

As for your specific point, I agree. When I read the OP, it occurred to me that two highly placed officials could indeed exchange emails that should be not exposed to intrusive eyes, but that they would also have some that were innocuous, like a lunch date. The mere existence of some Clinton-Petraeus emails on an unsecured private server doesn't prove that laws about classified information were broken.

OTOH, these emails do at least raise concerns about how Clinton's practices complied with the separate goals of protecting classified information and fully responding to legitimate FOIA requests. On that latter point, the facts may show that she impeded FOIA responses, or made compliance impossible to ascertain. That would presumably be "illegal" in the sense of violating FOIA even if there's no criminal penalty. (Many violations of law carry no criminal penalty and therefore aren't the basis for an indictment.)

You seem to be alone in your ability to respond to criticisms of Clinton in any manner other than invective. For that reason, I'd be interested in your thoughts on the rest of the OP.

[Buzz cook]

364. With all due respect

How did you expect people to respond with such an inflammatory thread title? I'm pretty sure you would respond in kind to a similar thread title about Sanders.

I'll respond to other parts of the OP when I get back from work.

[Jim Lane]

367. Face it, the primary is heated, and BOTH sides' thread titles reflect that.

Just dipping into the Hillary Clinton Group, I find, on the very first page of the thread listing, these specimens: "Bernie Sanders declares war on reality" and "How stupid do they think we are?" (Note the similarity of that last one to the second half of the title you object to.) I could of course multiply the examples if I troubled to check later HCG pages or to include GD-P in my survey.

In this thread we're in now, I personally, had I been posting along the lines of the OP, would have chosen a different title. But that's just my personal style. Most of my arguing is done in legal briefs submitted to judges, and the accepted norm in the field is that language is more restrained (some might say bloodless). Most Clinton supporters and most Sanders supporters haven't been shaped by years of writing in that kind of environment. Instead, they cut loose. DU might be a better place if no Sanders supporters wrote thread titles like this one, or if no Clinton supporters called us "bed bugs" (the latest encomium I've added to my collection), but anyone posting here has to recognize that some people will write that way.

I look forward to reading your further thoughts on the OP.

[Buzz cook]

371. I object to both, each and every.

An inflammatory title is one no matter who posts it. The point it to inflame.

SHE IS A TERRIBLE CRIMINAL<== Oh, but it gets better -- I had wondered why she had her staff PRINT off 30,000 emails and then make such a production of presenting them. She knew how to do an email dump electronically (her attorney had copies of the unrelated emails on a thumb drive in his office for months!), so why kill the trees?

After pasting and copying this part I thought I'd read the original article. Mostly because this didn't make a lot of sense.

Is the OP saying Clinton is a terrible criminal as in incompetent or terrible as in very bad person.?

Is printing out files a crime in itself? I'd think it would be SOP for an investigation to have hard copies of the information in question.

But back to the article which is much more interesting than the OP. If it can be believed, then there is some exculpatory information in store for Clinton fans.

Did Clinton delete Emails in an attept to hide evidence? Well according to this article she didn't.

How do we know the FBI has recovered Clinton's deleted emails?

In late August 2015, a week after the FBI took possession of Clinton's private email server, Clinton's campaign acknowledged "that there was an attempt to wipe her server before it was turned over last week to the FBI. But two sources with direct knowledge of the investigation told NBC News... that the bureau may be able to recover at least some data." In September 2015, Bloomberg News reported that, "Once the emails have been extracted, a group of agents has been separating personal correspondence and passing along work-related messages to agents leading the investigation..." That same month, The New York Times reported that according to two unnamed government officials, "It was not clear whether the entire trove of roughly 60,000 emails had been found on the server, but one official said it had not been very hard for the FBI to recover the messages." In late March 2016, the Los Angeles Times reported that since the FBI took possession of Clinton's private server on August 12, 2015, the FBI has "recovered most, if not all, of the deleted correspondence, said a person familiar with the investigation."

That the FBI did not find it hard to recover the emails says to me that all of her deleted emails have been recovered. Furthermore, there were multiple copies of her server, so the FBI probably didn't have any trouble at all if only one server copy was wiped – that is, overwritten repeatedly so that old data cannot be recovered. When a company named Platte River Networks took over management of Clinton's email server in mid-2013, it transferred all the contents of her server onto a new server and managed that, but also kept the old server, and the FBI eventually took possession of both servers. Plus, Platte River Networks had a contract with another company called Datto, which made monthly copies of the server in the cloud. But Platte River Networks didn't know this was happening since they didn't ask for it or pay for it, and they only found out about it after the FBI had taken the servers away.

Look at the sentence I emphasized. "Furthermore, there were multiple copies of her server, so the FBI probably didn't have any trouble at all if only one server copy was wiped – that is, overwritten repeatedly so that old data cannot be recovered."

Only one copy of Clinton's Emails was deleted and there was no attempt to hide the deleted material by overwriting. As most of you know simply deleting something from your computer will not make it go away. You have to over write the sections of the hard drive that held that deleted material and it's better to do it several times.

What does this tell us? Well it indicates that either she didn't have a guilty conscience and wasn't trying to hide her emails from an investigation or she and her entire IT crew know less about hiding data that the average poster on DU.

Imho the former makes more sense.

[Jim Lane]

373. I think your post explains the ambiguity you note.

Apparently, Clinton caused to be printed out paper copies of her emails. No, printing out files is not a crime in itself. What she's criticized for -- I don't know if it's a crime but it sounds deceptive -- is that (1) some of the emails were removed from the stack of printouts, and (2) some were included only in redacted form. As to both points, if there was no indication of omissions, then the information dump was deceptive.

Thus, my interpretation of "terrible criminal" is "incompetent criminal". Although the server was wiped, all the emails in full text could still be recovered from it. Furthermore, this other company apparently created a backup copy on another server, a fact that may or may not have been known to Clinton. Therefore, if the release of an almost-complete paper file was an effort to conceal some emails and parts of others, then the attempt was unlikely to succeed.

You conclude that she wasn't trying to hide anything. What you don't say, however, is what the alternative (presumably innocent) explanation was. If in fact she released a set of paper copies that was so voluminous as to appear complete, but it wasn't complete, and if there was no accompanying indication that it wasn't complete, then my first impression is that it was an attempt to hide something. Perhaps her thought was that the FBI wouldn't bother trying to retrieve anything from the wiped server because the agents would have the paper file.

If there were 30,000 or 60,000 pieces of paper, it would at least be conceivable that a handful of them could go missing during the process, just through inadvertence. I wonder whether the ones that were omitted were quite unexceptional -- which is what you'd expect if it was just inadvertence -- or if they were particularly problematic for Clinton. Even if you credit the explanation of inadvertence, however, it's much harder to make that defense for the production of redacted emails. If the facts are as stated, then it does look like an attempt at concealment.

[Enthusiast]

321. Kicked and recommended!

[RiverLover]

323. Truly, deeply shameful. Just like most rethugs. /nt

[niyad]

325. wow

[ronnykmarshall]

326. Oh I'll make sure to print this out

and I'll tear right through it.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

327. OMG!

this bit worries me

"When a company named Platte River Networks took over management of Clinton's email server in mid-2013, it transferred all the contents of her server onto a new server and managed that, but also kept the old server.

So ANY EMPLOYEE OF Platte River Networks, BUT NOT THE FOLKS AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT, could access the email records of the (former) United States Secretary of State? And none of the Platte River Network staff had security clearance or background checks or anything, and bonus! After they copied the data from the old sever to the new one, they kept it because why? Maybe to repurpose and sell on Ebay? <== Sarcasm


for all the screaming about security and terrorists they had ordinary guys working on the servers without any clearance. Is this true?

[IdaBriggs]

330. This was the server that Hillary had

in her basement. Since it was "off the books" the Government IT Security Gurus never touched it, and didn't know her IT guy (the one who got immunity) was helping with it. The two companies (Platte and Datto) had NO security anything - just normal computer companies supporting businesses.

Then the FBI came to visit...

[grasswire]

354. not only that, rosa...

...but the Platte River Networks facility site was not secure, either.

A total clusterfuck. Now, the founder/owner of the server company had an old connection to Bill Clinton. We must assume that the server was there because it was a small, obscure company far from Washington.

[Little_Wing]

328. Kicking so they squirm a little more

IdaBriggs I am in AWE,

[IdaBriggs]

332. How kind!!!

But full credit to Paul and the good folks who brought this issue to the light - hand to heaven, I had posted "who cares about email" less than two months ago. Then DUer grasswire sent me down this rabbit hole, and now I know way more than I ever wanted to (and I still say the FBI gets the final say).

[grasswire]

355. Thanks for the credit! I may have been the first one to post about this on DU.

But you and others have taken up the hue and cry splendidly.

[Logical]

339. Wow, worse than I thought. nt

[Pastiche423]

345. Kicking this wonderful and informative thread!

Thank you, Ida.

[leveymg]

346. Many excellent points here, Ida, especially how incompetent this makes her appear

She must truly have not only bad judgement, but horrible lawyers. So much risky, illegal behavior for what? To avoid FOIA? I think there's more to this, and it has to do with serial regime change for fun and profit. Remember, what we're reading are the emails she didn't wipe. The NSA and now FBI have the complete box set. Great posters with that one. Can't wait for it's release date.

[grasswire]

356. Yes, I agree that we have not yet glimpsed the depth of the perfidy.

There's some swell narcissistic-sociopathic risk taking in the Clintons. Unfortunately we all must go along for the ride with them.

[Logical]

347. Kick

[dooner]

350. Lots of important information

I'm just sorry that the subject of this post is so inflammatory. I almost didn't read it because I'm so tired of people arguing.

i think many people are tired of hearing Hillary/email/blah blah blah... but the more you learn about it
the more it makes you wonder about the whole mess. I don't like the fact that the FBI investigation
could effect the outcome of the election. And I don't like the fact that HC seems to be covering things up. And Bill
still seems as sleazy as ever. And their foundation looks more and more like a money laundering/influence peddling machine.

[AgerolanAmerican]

352. The "arguing" is Clinton camp FUD

You'll notice they recycle the same "arguments"... they are not arguing per se, but are rather obfuscating, as any clear reading of the evidence brings into question their judgment in supporting a person who has unmistakably committed serious federal crimes that have damaged national security (in addition to her other odious properties).

[grasswire]

358. oh god

I read "odious" as "odorous".....LOLOL

[grasswire]

357. It is very disheartening, I agree.

Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to live with peace and harmony in the land. Was the last administration of that nature Dwight Eisenhower's?

[HereSince1628]

361. It's a timeline built on published articles, the timeline orders the information and makes sense

of the bits and pieces in the same way that putting together a jigsaw puzzle reveals an image that couldn't be seen in the loose pieces even though all the information was there.

I read the entire medium version of the timeline. I recognized almost all of the pieces from previous posts on DU. Here are two little facts inside that timeline that come together in a single sentence that I think really do look very bad for Clinton.

Clinton Foundation employed Blumenthal to pump leaks from the CIA through his fake job at the Clinton Foundation to the Secretary of State. In short the Clintons conspired to organize and finance a spying operation on the CIA using the Clinton Foundation as a front.



Being able to say that so succinctly makes it understandable to folks with no more than 8th grade educations, which means it's perfectly accessible to most all Republican voters, and even Republican Congressmen and Senators.

But setting aside the potential for facing prison in Leavenworth, this is going to greatly handicap her general election run.

How difficult is it going to be to run for president and appear before Congressional and Senate hearings trying to explain this?

[IdaBriggs]

362. "Financed a spying operation on the CIA --"

Now THERE is some CLEAR explanation!!!

I wigged out on the short version - more reading!!!

I can't believe how screwed we are with this -- what was she thinking?

And then I remember these things "become normal" with practice.

Your post should be an OP!!!

[HereSince1628]

369. We don't need another OP we need a petition on the Whitehouse website demanding

the Obama not to pardon her and that he press the FBI for action prior to the Dem National Convention on that part of the evidence that clearly indicates wrong doing

Dem voters may not have no where to to go with their vote but the Dem party, but we shouldn't be forced to vote for this sort of thing

[2cannan]

366. I posted this in response to your other post on another thread.

A couple of other DUers (one of whom is Paul Thompson) think this is key.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511879555#post114

[dana_b]

365. I couldn't agree more

and the TRUTH HURTS!!

[riversedge]

370. Your OP is ugly and you should take it down. Shame on you.

[Jim Lane]

374. Do you feel the same outrage about similar posts in the Hillary Clinton Group?

For example, this thread over there resembles the OP here in that it presents hostile news coverage. One big difference is that the attacks are on Jane Sanders, who's not even a candidate. Furthermore, she's charged with improprieties during her presidency of Burlington College, which ended in 2011, so it's older "new" than the Clinton email controversy.

BTW, that thread got 31 recs, including a couple from HCG hosts.

If you condemn this one but not that one, you're applying a double standard.

[Demsrule86]

376. Another reason for Bernie to end his campaign

Posts like this one. He and some of you are now on Trumps team.

[IdaBriggs]

377. Only in the minds of the delusional and ignorant. nt

[Demsrule86]

380. Bernie is delusional

He can go to the convention...and he still loses.

[IdaBriggs]

381. In response to your insulting statement that I am on "Team Trump"

please refer to this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280190694

If you would like to apologize for insulting me, I will accept it on the condition you cease with that particular insult. Any other response will be ignored.

[Demsrule86]

382. First of all

It seems you are doing the name calling (delusional and ignorant are not sweet words). I said some...I did not single you out in any way. The fact is some Bernies supporters attack our nominee Hillary Clinton with often false and misleading information: much of the information courtesy of right wing hates sites or Fanatical Bernie supporters. This information is reported breathlessly as the truth...It's not. And those that engage in this sort of things are helping Trump...aka being on Trump's team. You insult so many people on that post you gave me the address for and then attack me for something I didn't even do? Re-read the post, is my suggestion. Also, I would point out to consider the math. The primary is over...whether Bernie limps into the convention, loses on the first ballot and Skinner calls it at that time doesn't matter. He won't win. He has no case to make to the supers as he did not win the popular vote nor the delegate count (which is what the Supers base their decisions upon). The question is will he damage our chances in November? And if you think some of the stuff posted here by Bernie supporters is helpful in terms of winning a general election. I don't know what to tell you other than I disagree.

[IdaBriggs]

383. Let's quote your insulting post for posterity --

Another reason for Bernie to end his campaign

Posts like this one. He and some of you are now on Trumps team.

You specifically call out MY POST and then say Bernie and "some of you" (after referencing my post) ARE NOW ON TRUMP'S TEAM.

See the post I referred you to for my response to that type of INSULTING GARBAGE.

Now, let us address your other comments -- you state "much of the information from right wing hate sites" which apparently now include ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The LA Times, Huffington Post, Politico, President Obama, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry's State Department, the FBI, Attorney General, and Inspector General of the Intelligence Community.

Apparently the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" has indeed taken over the world!

"This information is reported breathlessly as the truth." So you further insult me by saying I am posting FACTUALLY INCORRECT INFORMATION despite the fact I provide links to a timeline with links in mainstream media to my every assertion, so which is it -- am I stupid and gullible, or an all powerful and influential Evil Trump supporter? Because either way, as a DEMOCRAT those are fighting words.

And now we get to the REAL PROBLEM -- you honestly think this is about BERNIE. The leading candidate in the Democratic primary appears to have committed crimes for which the not-rich go to jail and for the first time in history a presidential candidate is being investigated by the FBI, and you think this is about BERNIE?!?!?

Bad News: Hillary set up her server in 2009. Bernie didn't help her with it. She used an unsecured device for communication that anyone with half a brain would know we don't want the Spy Patrol getting their eyes on, and Bernie didn't help her pick it out. She had a guy SPYING ON THE CIA AND NSA who was being PAID by the Clinton Foundation, and she didn't report the leaks so they could fix them and put the guy in jail. Let's not even get started on the violation of government record keeping, altering government records, and allowing two companies of people with zero security clearance have access to confidential and classified data, or the fact her damn lawyer had a copy of the UNREDACTED EMAILS on a thumb drive in his office for months because in your partisan mind, the FBI and the DOJ work for Bernie and Trump instead of the simpler explanation that she's a moron!

But as we vet the candidate, the brilliant plan of the Hillary supporters is clear: ignore it as a VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY because who are we going to believe -- the MANY DIFFERENT STORIES OF HILLARY, or our LYING EYES?

You have no right to shut down the discussion or insult ANYONE on this board as a "Trump Supporter" because you don't like FACTS. You can have a different opinion about the significance of those facts, but you don't get your own "optional" ones.

I have to admit you were the unlucky guy who hit my last nerve on the personal attacks from Hillary supporters (over twenty in this thread alone, and two separate threads discussing how to Alert Spam my post in the Hillary Group) but I am DONE allowing the "Trump Supporter" insult to fly.

Go read the WELL DOCUMENTED Timeline. If you find FACTUAL discrepancies, come back and discuss. At the end of the day, I will defer to the FBI and the DOJ on whether or not there is a criminal case to be made against her, but everyone knows that "Caesars Wife Must Be Above Reproach" and this candidate simply does not qualify.

And accusing ME of supporting Trump because I know that is vile, obnoxious behavior that is unworthy of this board.

Good Day!

[Demsrule86]

385. "some of you"

Is not directed at you particularly;your insults and bad temper were directed at me personally thought now weren't they? However, it if the shoe fits...wear it. Good day.

[farleftlib]

379. She is not fit to hold office

She has defiled each one she's held and the office of dog catcher would be too good for her.

K & R

[Blue_Tires]

384. Who knew the day would come

When DU rages against Hillary harder than FR?

[dchill]

386. K&R.

SUCH a liar. More proof every day.

[Bob41213]

387. Interesting read.

[B Calm]

388. K&R Spot On!

[truedelphi]

393. Just when I think there is not much truth on DU

and far too much bickering to make the little bits of truth still here worth it, someone like you puts up a note worthy piece. Thanks to both you and to Paul Thompson.