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MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:29 PM May 2016

Hillary Clinton should not apologize about shutting down coal mining.

No way. Coal is one of the worst possible fossil fuels there is. Coal-burning created the acid rain that screwed up freshwater resources in the eastern part of this country. It's a dirty fuel that should no longer be used for any industrial purpose. It's a major contributor to global climate change. No other fossil fuel is more damaging to the environment, both from mining and use as a fuel.

What about those coal mining jobs? Well, when coal mining is shut down, they will be gone. We can, and should, find ways to help miners who lose those mining jobs find alternatives, but we should not continue to mine and burn that climate-changing, environment-destroying fuel.

Thinking people want to end coal mining and the use of that fuel. That it will hurt an industry that has damaged so much is no reason to move away from that position. Politics are no reason to move away from that position.

Coal is filthy fuel that creates great harm wherever it is burned. We need to stop mining it and stop burning it. Period.

That's my opinion. Thanks for reading it.

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Hillary Clinton should not apologize about shutting down coal mining. (Original Post) MineralMan May 2016 OP
I happen to agree NWCorona May 2016 #1
Yes, and politics shouldn't enter into such decisions. MineralMan May 2016 #5
Hillary cannot hydrofracture and export natu ral gas till its gone AND ban coal TOO Baobab May 2016 #31
Yeah, an end to coal mining is certainly called for. Garrett78 May 2016 #2
That investment is already underway, and will be expanded MineralMan May 2016 #11
The phasing out needs to be fast-tracked and the investment in alternatives greatly increased. Garrett78 May 2016 #19
Yes. It's not going to be a comfortable transition. MineralMan May 2016 #22
Do you know she also wants to export natural gas until its gone? Baobab May 2016 #33
WTO requires all those jobs be globalized now, or soon will. Baobab May 2016 #32
Indeed she shouldn't but she did, what does that tell you about her character? tularetom May 2016 #3
She did not back down from her position. MineralMan May 2016 #8
Parse it however you wish, I saw the exchange and it looked awfully weaselly to me tularetom May 2016 #24
Everybody always smirks at that one and forgets Clinton was 100% correct whatthehey May 2016 #28
Grammatically he may have been correct tularetom May 2016 #29
No it's not a grammatical nicety or ambiguous at all whatthehey May 2016 #30
That's just disingenuous tularetom May 2016 #34
She stood FIRM! fun n serious May 2016 #23
She apologized for being misunderstood, she did not back off on her policy. nt BootinUp May 2016 #4
That's exactly right. MineralMan May 2016 #7
Yes, hard truths about the reality of coal need to be communicated. LonePirate May 2016 #6
If she were a strong candidate she wouldn't have apologized. berni_mccoy May 2016 #9
She apologized out of compassion for the feelings of those who have been negatively affected. Jitter65 May 2016 #26
So, what would you tell the 40+ yr old guy with a house payment & 3 kids in college? baldguy May 2016 #36
What if he's working in the fracking industry? Nye Bevan May 2016 #38
She's got the GE to worry about remember. Skink May 2016 #10
Believe me, she's not counting on the coal mining vote. MineralMan May 2016 #13
Right. She shouldn't have waffled. Orsino May 2016 #12
Waffled? Her answer was the most confusing, convoluted response I've ever heard. What's her position EndElectoral May 2016 #14
The plan exists, already. Go to her website. MineralMan May 2016 #15
"we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business." - HRC, Columbus, Ohio EndElectoral May 2016 #20
But she said the opposite... scscholar May 2016 #16
No, actually, she didn't. MineralMan May 2016 #17
She didn't want to come off as gleeful about destroying people's jobs qdouble May 2016 #18
Obviously the coal miners see it differently. EndElectoral May 2016 #21
The fracking boom is probably more responsible Ash_F May 2016 #25
Yet she did... nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #27
You're right -- HRC's new investment vehicle, fracking, is much better. n/t brentspeak May 2016 #35
HRC is republican light... HumanityExperiment May 2016 #37

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
5. Yes, and politics shouldn't enter into such decisions.
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:37 PM
May 2016

I hope those coal mine workers can be assisted in finding new ways to earn their living, but those mines still need to be shut down. They are a plague on the environment, both during mining and when the coal is burned as fuel.

Some things simply have to be done. That's one of them.

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
31. Hillary cannot hydrofracture and export natu ral gas till its gone AND ban coal TOO
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:32 AM
May 2016

Since she is so pro fracking in T-T-IP, she's got to leave coal or millions in cities where there is no room for solar will freeze.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
2. Yeah, an end to coal mining is certainly called for.
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:36 PM
May 2016

But that requires a major investment in alternative sources of energy. Right now, we're nowhere close to being prepared to replace oil and coal. Look around you and virtually everything you see is the product of those sources.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
11. That investment is already underway, and will be expanded
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:45 PM
May 2016

under Hillary Clinton's plan. Coal is being phased out as a fuel. That has caused many jobs to be lost already, as has new mining technology. It has also lowered the number of new cases of black lung and deaths in mining disasters.

We can't simply shut down coal production instantly, of course, but we will shut it down and are already scaling it back. We need to accelerate that process. Will people in West Virginia and other coal mining areas face economic challenges? Of course, but we can plan to mitigate those challenges. And we should. But, we should not back down from the plan to stop mining and burning coal.

That it will not happen tomorrow is no reason to pretend it will not happen.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
19. The phasing out needs to be fast-tracked and the investment in alternatives greatly increased.
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:55 PM
May 2016

I agree with your reply. I just think people underestimate how reliant we are on fossil fuels and how far we are from being able to replace them while maintaining any semblance of our current lifestyle (perhaps we ought to question that lifestyle, but that's a whole other discussion).

Electric cars seem great, but the batteries are toxic and what do folks think is responsible for electricity? Hint: it rhymes with "foal."

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
22. Yes. It's not going to be a comfortable transition.
Tue May 3, 2016, 02:06 PM
May 2016

And it's going to take longer than any sensible person wants it to take. I'm not knowledgeable enough to really discuss how it will happen, though. Here's what I'd do, if I were a lot younger and an engineer. I'd come up with a new roofing technology that could turn every roof into a solar site. From residential to industrial buildings, we have an enormous amount of available space on structures that face the sky. Right now, they're just designed to shed rain and snow. We need to change that.

I know such systems are under development, but it would help if some grants in aid were available to encourage faster development and implementation. It's one solution to part of the problem.

As for vehicles, we're simply going to have to scale down our individual transportation methods. A full-sized automobile is horribly wasteful of energy, and most of the time, they're just going to a job or shopping. Turning full-sized autos into EVs makes no sense at all. Scaled down vehicles could be powered easily with much less drain on our power grid.

In fact, that solar roof on your house would keep a small EV charged without the owner even noticing the cost, really.

My wife and I put only about 5000 miles per year on our vehicle. Most of its trips are under 5 miles. We work at home, and have since 1974. The people we work for aren't even nearby. We've been telecommuters for decades. We still drive a gasoline-fueled vehicle, mostly because of the high cost of EVs. We'll switch when we can.

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
32. WTO requires all those jobs be globalized now, or soon will.
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:33 AM
May 2016

It wont create any jobs for Americans unless wages fall a LOT.

US firms wont win the bids.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
3. Indeed she shouldn't but she did, what does that tell you about her character?
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:36 PM
May 2016

She's a political coward and a liar and she should never be given the responsibility to commit the country to wars, or to set policy on climate change issues.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
8. She did not back down from her position.
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:40 PM
May 2016

Her apology was for not putting it in terms that were understood correctly. That's a different thing.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
24. Parse it however you wish, I saw the exchange and it looked awfully weaselly to me
Tue May 3, 2016, 02:08 PM
May 2016

We're treading too close to "the meaning of is" territory here.

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
28. Everybody always smirks at that one and forgets Clinton was 100% correct
Tue May 3, 2016, 02:15 PM
May 2016

It's not even a technicality or triviality. Anybody claiming "there's a war going on between Germany and Britain." would be loudly dismissed as a blithering idiot, as would one who claimed it was a true statement simply because such a war existed in 1944.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
29. Grammatically he may have been correct
Tue May 3, 2016, 02:35 PM
May 2016

But what not everybody forgets is he made that statement to try to explain why he lied to a grand jury about whether or not he had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky. It was an ambiguious remark, designed not to clarify, but to obfuscate and confuse. Sort of like the way Hillary tried to explain her previous anti coal statement.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/1998/09/bill_clinton_and_the_meaning_of_is.html

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
30. No it's not a grammatical nicety or ambiguous at all
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:26 AM
May 2016

"there's nothing going on between us." is not ambiguous. If your current SO asked you about a previous flame for example, it would be a perfectly fitting and perfectly acceptable answer. It would take an entirely new tense or the spontaneous revision of the present tense's meaning to imply even to the thickest questioner that this referred to any past entanglement in any way.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
34. That's just disingenuous
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:37 AM
May 2016

"Are you having a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky?"

"No, at the moment I'm sitting in a chair responding to your questions. Miss Lewinsky is nowhere in sight."

Can you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

Don't bother to reply, this is going nowhere.

 

fun n serious

(4,451 posts)
23. She stood FIRM!
Tue May 3, 2016, 02:07 PM
May 2016

She is far from a coward. Wow! Being a Senator for decades and staying in a comfort zone environment is cowardice.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
7. That's exactly right.
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:39 PM
May 2016

She didn't say she wanted to back off shutting coal mines down. She felt bad for the workers who will be displaced, but has a plan for that, too.

Some things are basic, and should not be politicized. Coal needs to be no longer used as an industrial fuel, both in the US and worldwide. Period.

LonePirate

(13,419 posts)
6. Yes, hard truths about the reality of coal need to be communicated.
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:38 PM
May 2016

The decline of coal based energy production will only continue. The jobs are never coming back and politicians need to stop sugar coating this reality.

 

Jitter65

(3,089 posts)
26. She apologized out of compassion for the feelings of those who have been negatively affected.
Tue May 3, 2016, 02:12 PM
May 2016

She apologized for using insensitive words not for telling them the truth.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
36. So, what would you tell the 40+ yr old guy with a house payment & 3 kids in college?
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:38 AM
May 2016

"Suck it up, bro"?

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
13. Believe me, she's not counting on the coal mining vote.
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:46 PM
May 2016

She knows she's not going to get that. That goes to the Republicans.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
12. Right. She shouldn't have waffled.
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:46 PM
May 2016

She should map out the path, and a bold plan for paying the citizrns whose jobs will vanish.

It's change we need.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
15. The plan exists, already. Go to her website.
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:47 PM
May 2016

It's not a plan that can be outlined in a few words, however. She mentioned it, but couldn't provide the details quickly and simply.

Stuff's complicated.

EndElectoral

(4,213 posts)
20. "we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business." - HRC, Columbus, Ohio
Tue May 3, 2016, 02:01 PM
May 2016

Now, she says it is a misstatement. Which is it?

She's never mentioned it was a misstatement before, but now when it's politically expedient in coal country she's trying to back away from that statement.

God knows what she beleives. It all depends on who she is talking to at the moment.

May be a good idea for her to read her own website.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
17. No, actually, she didn't.
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:52 PM
May 2016

She apologized for being misunderstood, not for her position on coal. Listen to what she said again to that coal miner.

Bernie Sanders also wants to end our dependence on coal and other fossil fuels. That coal miner wouldn't like his position any better. What's needed is a transition plan for those workers, not a surrender to the coal industry. That's Hillary's plan, and I'm sure it is part of Sanders' plan, too.

But, Hillary Clinton will be the nominee, not Bernie Sanders.

qdouble

(891 posts)
18. She didn't want to come off as gleeful about destroying people's jobs
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:54 PM
May 2016

She didn't waffle. I really don't see what the big deal is.

 

HumanityExperiment

(1,442 posts)
37. HRC is republican light...
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:41 AM
May 2016

She's backing fracking and NG special interests, this is well documented and easily validated so it's political calculation that the 'blow back' from making such a statement is already been 'tested' through the 'focus group political optics machine'...

Odd the writer of this OP doesn't mentioned HRC's stance on fracking, which is much more devastating to environment than coal...

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