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wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
Tue May 3, 2016, 03:08 PM May 2016

This Is What a Republican Attack on Bernie Sanders Would Look Like

In a Washington press conference on Sunday, Sanders, who has no discernible path to a delegate majority, outlined a plan to force a contested convention, where he apparently believes some superdelegates will flip to his side on the basis of electability. “The evidence is extremely clear that I would be the stronger candidate to defeat Trump or any other Republican,” he said. Sanders reiterated this on Monday at a rally in Evansville, Indiana, saying, “We appeal to virtually all the Democrats, but we do a lot better with independents than Secretary Clinton. And I hope the Democrats at the national convention understand that while independents may not be able to vote in certain Democratic primaries, they do vote in the general election.”

I have no idea if Sanders is serious about this superdelegate plan. It might just be a rationale for him to keep fighting until the end of the primaries, garnering delegates that he could leverage to push Clinton and the party leftward at the convention. But if he is serious, then what he is proposing is a presumption based on a falsehood.

The presumption is that there is anything progressive about a plan that asks powerful figures to cast aside an electoral majority built on the choices of women and people of color. The falsehood is that Sanders’ superior electability is, as he asserted on Sunday, “extremely clear.”

It is true, as Sanders pointed out, that polls show him doing better than Clinton against Republicans in November. But it is also true that Clinton has not hit Sanders with a single negative ad. Not one.

1. Sanders has never been asked to account for his relationship with the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party, for which he served as a presidential elector in 1980. At the time, the party’s platform called for abolishing the U.S. military budget and proclaimed “solidarity” with revolutionary Iran. (This was in the middle of the Iranian hostage crisis.)

2. There’s been little cable news chatter about Sanders’ 1985 trip to Nicaragua, where he reportedly joined a Sandinista rally with a crowd chanting, “Here, there, everywhere/ The Yankee will die.” It would be nice if this were due to a national consensus on the criminal nature of America’s support for the Contras. More likely, the media’s attention has simply been elsewhere.

3. The Clinton campaign has also ignored Sanders’ youthful sex writings. Republicans are unlikely to be so decorous.

4. As the nominee, Sanders would have to address his former opposition to public schools and praise for parents who believe that it is “better for their children not to go to school at all than for them to attend a normal type of establishment.”

5. He’d have to explain whether he still feels that sexual repression causes cancer.

6. He’d have to explain if he still opposes the concept of private charity, and whether he still supports the public takeover of the television industry.

7. One also assumes Republicans would, in keeping with Karl Rove’s playbook, try to hit Sanders where he’s strongest—on issues of financial integrity. They’d probably do it by going after Jane Sanders, who has been accused of trying to defraud the Catholic Church on a land deal she undertook as president of Burlington College. (After being forced out of that job, she received a $200,000 golden parachute.) If you think this can’t blow up, remember that Hillary Clinton never personally profited off of Whitewater, the land deal that became a pretext for endless investigations of her and her husband.

The Sanderistas appear to believe they were treated unfairly, even viciously, in this primary. In fact, they’ve been handled incredibly gingerly. That might end up being to Sanders’ detriment: If we’d spent the past few months chewing over his glaring electoral weaknesses and he was still leading Clinton in head-to-head matchups against the GOP, he might have a case for a contested convention. It would be a cynical, anti-democratic case that contradicts the people-powered rationale of his candidacy, but it wouldn’t be as nonsensical as the argument he’s making now.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/05/bernie_sanders_electability_argument_is_still_a_myth.html?wpsrc=sh_all_dt_tw_top

93 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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This Is What a Republican Attack on Bernie Sanders Would Look Like (Original Post) wyldwolf May 2016 OP
Bernie-ites with blazing torches are coming for you now. tonyt53 May 2016 #1
10 years ago maybe, but today people are LASER focused on their pocketbooks Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #51
Wrong Demsrule86 May 2016 #71
But not for any of those reasons, you dont understand the electorate I think. What could be Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #75
I respectfully disagree. hamsterjill May 2016 #79
People dont understand what Democratic Socialism is, if they did he would win in a landslide. Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #81
Yes, I believe you are correct in that most don't understand it. hamsterjill May 2016 #85
True that Demsrule86 May 2016 #90
You are ...... RIGHT!!!! KPN May 2016 #78
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2016 #64
wyldwolf--Great find! ProgressiveEconomist May 2016 #2
LOL noretreatnosurrender May 2016 #3
This is what my defense of your candidate will look like nolabels May 2016 #4
Winner. bvf May 2016 #25
+100 840high May 2016 #31
SHIT! Please don't do that aren't you supposed to be on a MSNBC panel tonight! snooper2 May 2016 #42
And that's only Chapter I of the Rethug attack on Bernie. COLGATE4 May 2016 #5
Thanks for posting this. brush May 2016 #6
If they can't Google it, it doesn't exist to his supporters. politicaljunkie41910 May 2016 #54
Sounds like the same crap from the Woodchucks minus the charges of racism and sexism TheKentuckian May 2016 #7
Doesn't matter metroins May 2016 #8
Very true, but good to bookmark for the inevitable Maru Kitteh May 2016 #19
Good point. Nt metroins May 2016 #21
good post. just wanted to register my opinion before Bernie fans rage and HIDE your OP Bill USA May 2016 #9
^^ This ^^ wyldwolf May 2016 #11
HIDE? Perish the thought. I never get enough analysis of Bernie's "youthful sex writings." immoderate May 2016 #20
Yes, that is why I cut and pasted to another site. nt Jitter65 May 2016 #65
Lol! It's not the 50's anymore NWCorona May 2016 #10
"I see you didn't touch on what it would be like for Hillary." wyldwolf May 2016 #12
There's one huge problem to your post and you are to busy giggling to see it. nt NWCorona May 2016 #15
Excuse me! I don't giggle. I chuckle. wyldwolf May 2016 #17
Ok. To busy chuckling to see it then nt NWCorona May 2016 #18
No there isn't anigbrowl May 2016 #38
Yes there is and it's obvious that I want to see if the op realizes the problem. No ego needed nt NWCorona May 2016 #39
'I want to see [...]' 'No ego needed' LOL anigbrowl May 2016 #41
I guess by your definition. Just about everyone on this site has an ego nt NWCorona May 2016 #47
Yes, but most people manage to keep theirs in check anigbrowl May 2016 #49
How? NWCorona May 2016 #53
By simply expressing an opinion rather than demanding people worm it out of them. anigbrowl May 2016 #57
I knew what you meant and was only joking NWCorona May 2016 #59
ooh, red baiting ProfessorPlum May 2016 #13
"youthful sex writings" will do it every time! immoderate May 2016 #14
Excellent post. Don thy kevlar. Maru Kitteh May 2016 #16
No kidding, they will be out with fire in their eyes. redstatebluegirl May 2016 #77
Plus they would push the anti-communist stuff heavily among the Cuban community in FL ContinentalOp May 2016 #22
I'm sure the Republicans are relieved that you are leading the way on this. And let it be noted that AzDar May 2016 #23
I remember the 1992 and 1996 campaigns well. bvf May 2016 #37
those were personal life attacks, not attacks on policy ericson00 May 2016 #63
Kerry lost in large part bvf May 2016 #73
The problem with that is Bernie's supporters have been so over the top with the politicaljunkie41910 May 2016 #56
His poll numbers would sink faster than a concrete slab in the ocean. JaneyVee May 2016 #24
Bravo! stone space May 2016 #26
"7.Jane ... trying to defraud ProgressiveEconomist May 2016 #27
WOLVERINES!!! frylock May 2016 #28
Give a little thought to what a GOP campaign against Bernie Sanders might look like Gothmog May 2016 #32
Of course, it will be kid gloves with Mrs Clinton. frylock May 2016 #35
Do you want to know what an attack on Hillary will look like? jillan May 2016 #29
Democrats would be insane to nominate Sanders Gothmog May 2016 #33
That's just the tip of the iceberg. So to speak. JudyM May 2016 #36
The GOP has been attacking Hillary since 1992 anigbrowl May 2016 #40
That is a great article Gothmog May 2016 #30
I am confident Bernie and his team would handle these quite well Rebkeh May 2016 #34
Yet he couldn't handle the New York Daily News lanlady May 2016 #44
He did fine Rebkeh May 2016 #48
He didn't do fine, which is why people are still talking about it. brush May 2016 #60
That's like saying the Howard Dean scream Eric J in MN May 2016 #68
The organ of the US Communist Party lanlady May 2016 #43
And terrorist organizations like the Klan endorse Trump. imagine2015 May 2016 #50
Don't forget Sierra Blanca DLCWIdem May 2016 #45
Those wouldn't be the attacks... ecstatic May 2016 #46
Thanks but we've pretty much everyone of those leveled at Bernie by Hillary's team azurnoir May 2016 #52
Even more to throw at Bernie...an avowed socialist berating capitalism and beachbumbob May 2016 #55
A self-avowed has-been, but that itself is quite an advance in a major Presidential candidate. stone space May 2016 #58
Another problem with matchup polls now is that they don't take account of turnout. Jim Lane May 2016 #61
The line about current polls showing Sanders beating Trump more than Hillary ... Jitter65 May 2016 #66
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #62
Difficult to predict what Republican attacks will work. Eric J in MN May 2016 #67
Every attack ad would refer to him as "socialist Bernie Sanders" Nye Bevan May 2016 #69
Except the ones that would call him a communist. nt Jitter65 May 2016 #89
And don't forget the hypocrisy about the MIC. Jitter65 May 2016 #70
Do you want to go down this path? Vinca May 2016 #72
Everything has been said hasn't it about Bill and Hill? It gets tiresome after a while. Jitter65 May 2016 #74
A whole generation has grown up not knowing the most sordid bits. Vinca May 2016 #87
It's the economy/jobs/income inequality, stupid. KPN May 2016 #76
No problem. All he has to do is explain how he "evolved" on these issues. mikehiggins May 2016 #80
Red baiting and emo drama? AgingAmerican May 2016 #82
Right? Compared to tons of lies, corruption, etc? nt vintx May 2016 #84
Good lord. The Repubs will probably yeehaw those youthful sex writings. Hiraeth May 2016 #83
I notice that there were no links in your OP -- Just a bunch of assertions Time for change May 2016 #86
I noticed you lack the initiative to click the link into the story... wyldwolf May 2016 #91
Sorry, I missed that link. Time for change May 2016 #93
To me, the true heart of the man was exposed during the Sierra Blanca incident. Jitter65 May 2016 #88
yes DLCWIdem May 2016 #92
 

tonyt53

(5,737 posts)
1. Bernie-ites with blazing torches are coming for you now.
Tue May 3, 2016, 03:14 PM
May 2016

You have just outlined why only the most politically naive or the most left-wing are Bernie's supporters. The GOP would have a field day.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
51. 10 years ago maybe, but today people are LASER focused on their pocketbooks
Tue May 3, 2016, 05:06 PM
May 2016

and I believe Bernie would win in November, huge.

Demsrule86

(68,556 posts)
71. Wrong
Wed May 4, 2016, 07:55 AM
May 2016

Bernie also wants to raise taxes, he at one time wanted to nationalize banks and oil companies...there is way more which the GOP has been saving. He would lose worse than McGovern.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
75. But not for any of those reasons, you dont understand the electorate I think. What could be
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:05 AM
May 2016

devastating is the social stuff, his writings, associations in the past, etc.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
79. I respectfully disagree.
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:11 AM
May 2016

I believe it is you who does not understand the electorate.

The fact that he has endorsed socialism is going to be, in and of itself, his biggest obstacle for generations of American voters who have been indoctrinated that capitalism is the sole reason that we have the freedom we enjoy, etc.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
81. People dont understand what Democratic Socialism is, if they did he would win in a landslide.
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:15 AM
May 2016

We will never know, as it appears he wont be in the election.

I just listened to someone who knows more about this than all of us here, an insider, who says he has seen the "oppo research" as they call it on Bernie, and it is all about past associations, writings, jobs or lack thereof when he was younger.

Associating him with communists or socialists is not the same as opposing him on wanting single payer, so it is complicated.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
85. Yes, I believe you are correct in that most don't understand it.
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:56 AM
May 2016

But they will not take the time to learn to understand it either. They just won't vote for him.

Of course, it's complicated. But the average Joe or Betty wants to make it simple, so they will not use much effort to try to understand it, unfortunately.

Thank you for the thoughtful exchange. I hope you enjoy a wonderful day today.

Response to tonyt53 (Reply #1)

ProgressiveEconomist

(5,818 posts)
2. wyldwolf--Great find!
Tue May 3, 2016, 03:14 PM
May 2016

Keep up the great work! You consistently rise far above the sloganeering that passes for wisdom on DU these days.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
42. SHIT! Please don't do that aren't you supposed to be on a MSNBC panel tonight!
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:37 PM
May 2016

Don't Let Us DOWN!

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
5. And that's only Chapter I of the Rethug attack on Bernie.
Tue May 3, 2016, 03:22 PM
May 2016

Wait for Pat Buchanan to be recalled so he can slyly remind Rethug voters that Bernie is - GASP = Jewish (along with how we need to stand up for our "Xian" values). Look for questions about Bernie honeymooning in Communist Russia and praising Cuba. And on - and on. Lee Atwater may be dead but his practicioners live on and thrive in the Rethuglican party.

brush

(53,771 posts)
6. Thanks for posting this.
Tue May 3, 2016, 03:22 PM
May 2016

I mentioned some of this in responses to Sanders supporters who keep saying that he has no baggage whereas Clinton has several steamer trunks worth.

This info needs to be out there before any contested convention so that people understand what kind of fire will come Sanders' way from the repugs if he somehow manages to get the nomination.

It's surprising to me that he would push this so hard, as if that Marxist history has been somehow erased.

It reminds me now of Edwards in '08 with the secret baby mama — carrying on like that debacle wasn't going to come out also.

Maru Kitteh

(28,339 posts)
19. Very true, but good to bookmark for the inevitable
Tue May 3, 2016, 03:41 PM
May 2016

"Don't blame me for the terrible R attacks on Clinton! Bernie would have NEVER had this problem! He is SO clean and pure!"

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
9. good post. just wanted to register my opinion before Bernie fans rage and HIDE your OP
Tue May 3, 2016, 03:29 PM
May 2016

You realize talk like this will be judged by the Bernie fans as clearly "disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate."

Bernie fans have their own idea of an 'open and honest discussion of ideas'.--- that is, discussion will be allowed until their feelings are hurt or someone utters a blasphemy against their Bernie.

 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
20. HIDE? Perish the thought. I never get enough analysis of Bernie's "youthful sex writings."
Tue May 3, 2016, 03:42 PM
May 2016

After you refute that Marxism stuff, you can take on Bernie's sexual musings. There is so much to be said about that.

--imm

wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
12. "I see you didn't touch on what it would be like for Hillary."
Tue May 3, 2016, 03:35 PM
May 2016

That's because it's broadcast on DU 24/7

 

anigbrowl

(13,889 posts)
57. By simply expressing an opinion rather than demanding people worm it out of them.
Tue May 3, 2016, 05:31 PM
May 2016

If you had simply stated what you thought the big problem was a few posts back you would have made your point and other people could agree or disagree. Instead you played ego games and in the meantime most people have lost interest in the thread.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
59. I knew what you meant and was only joking
Tue May 3, 2016, 05:40 PM
May 2016

I actually agree with your point but it's not ego. You can call it a game tho.

Besides I wasn't demanding anything. Meanwhile you are the only one keeping this thread going.

ContinentalOp

(5,356 posts)
22. Plus they would push the anti-communist stuff heavily among the Cuban community in FL
Tue May 3, 2016, 03:54 PM
May 2016

We would potentially lose Florida if he were the nominee.

 

AzDar

(14,023 posts)
23. I'm sure the Republicans are relieved that you are leading the way on this. And let it be noted that
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:02 PM
May 2016

there is SO MUCH dirt/corruption/slime clinging to Hilary Clinton (whom Bernie has been FAR too easy on, imnsho), that it would take days to catalogue. She has so MANY skeletons, they aren't contained in a closet... it's a veritable catacomb.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
37. I remember the 1992 and 1996 campaigns well.
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:20 PM
May 2016

The Republicans (especially the religious nutjobs among them, Richard Mellon Scaife, World Net Daily, and all the rest) spent as much time slinging shit at Hillary as they did at her husband--the guy with the uncontrollable libido.

This OP makes the stupidest argument imaginable.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
63. those were personal life attacks, not attacks on policy
Wed May 4, 2016, 05:57 AM
May 2016

and the attacks that work are attacks on policy that make people dislike others. Kerry didn't lose because of Swift Boating; he lost because his flip flops were made to render him weak on terror. Dukakis didn't lose over the mental health thing; he lost because of Willie Horton re DEATH PENALTY/CRIME, not because of Horton himself. McGovern lost because his ultra-progressivism turned him into "weak on defense" and welfare, not because of his personality.

Bernie on his foreign activities would be used to attack his world view and potential toughness as CiC. And other policies....

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
73. Kerry lost in large part
Wed May 4, 2016, 08:53 AM
May 2016

because he failed to address the Swift Boating attacks.

Dukakis, for a silly picture of him wearing a helmet and poking his head out of a tank.

Attacks are attacks, whatever their provenance. To paraphrase a famous businessman, no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the average American voter.

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
56. The problem with that is Bernie's supporters have been so over the top with the
Tue May 3, 2016, 05:30 PM
May 2016

fake condemnations and the feigning outrage over every breath she takes, that everyone stopped listening a long time ago. The Clintons have been investigated to hell and back and the only thing that they could make stick was litigated almost 20 years ago.

Bernie has been sitting in Congress for 25 years collecting a UUUUUGGEEE paycheck and has nothing to show for it but a bunch of PROTEST votes and some DAMN Amendments that no one gives a shit about but Bernie. For someone who will not let go of claims that Clinton supporting fracking, while his wife sits on a committee who has no problem dumping Vermont's nuclear power plant waste on poor people's neighborhood near the southern border in Texas.

ProgressiveEconomist

(5,818 posts)
27. "7.Jane ... trying to defraud
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:09 PM
May 2016

the Catholic Church...".

I'd like to hear a lot more about this charge. Maybe it would help explain (a) an inexplicable time-consuming trip to the Vatican on the eve of the NY primary and/or (b) SBS's puzzling refusal to release more than his 2014 tax returns.

Gothmog

(145,157 posts)
32. Give a little thought to what a GOP campaign against Bernie Sanders might look like
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:14 PM
May 2016

According to this article, Sanders has been treated with kid gloves by the Clinton campaign to date. However the GOP will not be as kind to Sanders. This article from VOX has some good predictions as to how nasty the GOP and the Kochs will be http://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10903404/gop-campaign-against-sanders

I'm not sure I have the requisite killer instinct to fully imagine how the GOP will play a Sanders campaign. But consider just this low-hanging fruit:

Sanders would be the oldest president ever to take office — older than John McCain, who faced serious questions about this in 2008.

Sanders is a socialist. "No, no," you explain, "it's democratic socialist, like in Denmark." I'm sure GOP attack ads will take that distinction into careful consideration.

Sanders explicitly wants to raise taxes, and not only on the rich.

That's just the obvious stuff. And he has barely been hit on any of it so far.

I have no real way of knowing whether Sanders and his advisers appreciate what's coming if he wins the nomination, or whether they have a serious plan to deal with it, something beyond hoping a political revolution will drown it out.

But at least based on my experience, the Bernie legions are not prepared. They seem convinced that the white working class would rally to the flag of democratic socialism. And they are in a state of perpetual umbrage that Sanders isn't receiving the respect he's due, that he's facing even mild attacks from Clinton's camp.

If they are aware that it's been patty-cakes so far, that much, much worse and more vicious attacks are inevitable, and that no one knows how Sanders might perform with a giant political machine working to define him as an unhinged leftist, they hide it well.

In the name of diverting some small percentage of the social media bile surely headed my way, let's be clear about a few things: This is not an argument against supporting Sanders. There's nothing dumber than making political decisions based on how the other side might react. (For one thing, that would have foreclosed supporting Obama, a black urbanite with a funny name, in 2008.)

But it is an argument that Sanders has gaping vulnerabilities that have not yet been exploited at all, so his followers should not yet feel sanguine about his ability to endure conservative attacks. Also they should get a thicker skin, quick.

The GOP will have a great deal of material to work with and the Kochs will be spending $887 million and the RNC candidate may spend another billion dollars. These groups will have a great deal to work with

frylock

(34,825 posts)
35. Of course, it will be kid gloves with Mrs Clinton.
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:17 PM
May 2016

Republicans are already turning out in number. Imagine how many will crawl out of their death beds for the opportunity they've been waiting 20+ years for.

Gothmog

(145,157 posts)
33. Democrats would be insane to nominate Sanders
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:15 PM
May 2016

Sanders is not a viable general election candidate and would do poorly in a general election matchup. The silly match polls used by Sanders are worthless. Dana Milbank has some good comments on general election match up polls https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-would-be-insane-to-nominate-bernie-sanders/2016/01/26/0590e624-c472-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html?hpid=hp_opinions-for-wide-side_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Sanders and his supporters boast of polls showing him, on average, matching up slightly better against Trump than Clinton does. But those matchups are misleading: Opponents have been attacking and defining Clinton for a quarter- century, but nobody has really gone to work yet on demonizing Sanders.

Watching Sanders at Monday night’s Democratic presidential forum in Des Moines, I imagined how Trump — or another Republican nominee — would disembowel the relatively unknown Vermonter.


The first questioner from the audience asked Sanders to explain why he embraces the “socialist” label and requested that Sanders define it “so that it doesn’t concern the rest of us citizens.”

Sanders, explaining that much of what he proposes is happening in Scandinavia and Germany (a concept that itself alarms Americans who don’t want to be like socialized Europe), answered vaguely: “Creating a government that works for all of us, not just a handful of people on the top — that’s my definition of democratic socialism.”

But that’s not how Republicans will define socialism — and they’ll have the dictionary on their side. They’ll portray Sanders as one who wants the government to own and control major industries and the means of production and distribution of goods. They’ll say he wants to take away private property. That wouldn’t be fair, but it would be easy. Socialists don’t win national elections in the United States .

Sanders on Monday night also admitted he would seek massive tax increases — “one of the biggest tax hikes in history,” as moderator Chris Cuomo put it — to expand Medicare to all. Sanders, this time making a comparison with Britain and France, allowed that “hypothetically, you’re going to pay $5,000 more in taxes,” and declared, “W e will raise taxes, yes we will.” He said this would be offset by lower health-insurance premiums and protested that “it’s demagogic to say, oh, you’re paying more in taxes.

Well, yes — and Trump is a demagogue.

Sanders also made clear he would be happy to identify Democrats as the party of big government and of wealth redistribution. When Cuomo said Sanders seemed to be saying he would grow government “bigger than ever,” Sanders didn’t quarrel, saying, “P eople want to criticize me, okay,” and “F ine, if that’s the criticism, I accept it.”

Sanders accepts it, but are Democrats ready to accept ownership of socialism, massive tax increases and a dramatic expansion of government? If so, they will lose.

Match up polls are worthless because these polls do not measure what would happen to Sanders in a general election where Sanders is very vulnerable to negative ads.
 

anigbrowl

(13,889 posts)
40. The GOP has been attacking Hillary since 1992
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:34 PM
May 2016

I've never been to Arkansas so I don't know what it was like back in the 1980s but I'm sure they were at it back then. Why is it that Bernie fans seem to think that Hillary voters aren't plugged in to politics? I am very well aware of what a 6 month campaign of smears against Hillary is going to look like because I have been watching the GOP attack Hillary Clinton for almost 25 years, and I've seen how they attacked other Democratic candidates in many different election races over the same time period.

I don't need you to tell me about it like it was some new idea.

Rebkeh

(2,450 posts)
34. I am confident Bernie and his team would handle these quite well
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:16 PM
May 2016

He wasn't born yesterday, he knows the game. Furthermore, I have more faith in Bernie to beat the republicans than Hillary, mostly because you can't beat your opponent by becoming them. She's already more than halfway there.

And no, co-opting the republican party doesn't count as beating them.

lanlady

(7,134 posts)
44. Yet he couldn't handle the New York Daily News
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:43 PM
May 2016

--when asked about the details of his own platform.

brush

(53,771 posts)
60. He didn't do fine, which is why people are still talking about it.
Tue May 3, 2016, 06:51 PM
May 2016

And why he loss NY so badly, and will lose NJ right across the river.

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
68. That's like saying the Howard Dean scream
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:28 AM
May 2016

...must have been terrible since we remember it.

People remember repeated attacks whether they're valid or not.

lanlady

(7,134 posts)
43. The organ of the US Communist Party
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:41 PM
May 2016

People's World, endorsed Sanders the other day. The Republicans will have a field day with Comrade "Bolshevik Bernie" Sanders.

 

imagine2015

(2,054 posts)
50. And terrorist organizations like the Klan endorse Trump.
Tue May 3, 2016, 05:04 PM
May 2016

The Communist Party doesn't amount to beans. So people won't care much about that "endorsement".

They also endorsed Obama and every Democratic presidential candidate since 1952!

So what?

DLCWIdem

(1,580 posts)
45. Don't forget Sierra Blanca
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:45 PM
May 2016

Sierra Blanca also hits at the core of Sanders strength. The dumping of nuclear waste in the hispanic Texas town by Vermont and Maine was a case of environmental racism just like Flint. It also handicaps him on environmental issues.

 

beachbumbob

(9,263 posts)
55. Even more to throw at Bernie...an avowed socialist berating capitalism and
Tue May 3, 2016, 05:17 PM
May 2016

Success...a paficist who could not convince anyone he has the guts to make the hard call and protect America ....

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
58. A self-avowed has-been, but that itself is quite an advance in a major Presidential candidate.
Tue May 3, 2016, 05:32 PM
May 2016
a pacifist


 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
61. Another problem with matchup polls now is that they don't take account of turnout.
Wed May 4, 2016, 04:10 AM
May 2016

I agree that the Republican mudslinging will change some minds -- although the GOP will find that most of the voters aren't concerned with refighting the Cold War. "Gotcha" attacks based on things that happened before most current voters were born will, to many of them, be seen as attempts at distracting attention from Sanders's critique of a system that's widely considered to be failing.

None of that, however, relates to turnout. It's certainly relevant that Hillary Clinton has been attacked for two decades. The result is that, if she's the nominee, Republicans and Republican-leaning independents will be eager to vote against her, in droves. On our side? I expect that, if Clinton wins, Sanders will endorse her and urge his followers to vote for her. The problem is that, despite the sneers of the Clinton supporters, most Sanders voters don't actually regard him as the Messiah or consider him infallible. He's seen as having some good ideas, and also as a straight talker (which in November can get him support from people who aren't in tune with him ideologically). Nevertheless, if Clinton is the nominee, many Sanders supporters will think they're being given yet another choice between two corporate parties, and they won't bother voting. (I personally expect to vote for the Democratic nominee whoever it is, but that attitude is not universal.)

Current polls show Sanders beating Trump by more than Clinton does. I believe that, if we could somehow run the experiment of holding the election twice, Sanders's winning margin would exceed Clinton's by more than the current polls show, even after all the Republican mudslinging you summarize.

As a side note, posts that talk about how the Republicans could attack Clinton have been viciously denounced by Clinton supporters -- this is Rovian, I'd expect to see it on Free Republic, you're doing Trump's work for him, etc. I personally believe that it's legitimate for us to consider criticisms of both our candidates. You should, however, be aware that a lot of Clinton supporters disagree and will presumably flame you for your post.

Then again, maybe they won't.

 

Jitter65

(3,089 posts)
66. The line about current polls showing Sanders beating Trump more than Hillary ...
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:19 AM
May 2016

That is what the polls show as long as Bernie is a choice. Once he is not at least half those votes will go to Hillary and she will beat Trump solidly. And we are likely to have some votes from the GOP side because there are some who just will not vote for him and have said they would vote for Hillary. Those that won't vote for her would never and have never voted for her anyway.

Response to wyldwolf (Original post)

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
67. Difficult to predict what Republican attacks will work.
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:23 AM
May 2016

In 2008, Republicans said:


- Obama's political career was started by terrorist Bill Ayers.

- Obama's pastor said the phrase "God bless America" should be replaced with "God damn America."

- Obama was a community organizer instead of having a real job.

- Obama has used pot and cocaine.


These may seem like effective attacks, but weren't effective.

In 2004, Republicans said:

- John Kerry lied. He wasn't injured enough in Vietnam to deserve his medals.

- John Kerry is the most liberal US Senator.

- John Kerry insulted one of Dick Cheney's daughters by referring to her as gay.


These may seem like ineffective attacks, but were effective.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
69. Every attack ad would refer to him as "socialist Bernie Sanders"
Wed May 4, 2016, 07:13 AM
May 2016

and if he complained they would point to footage of him saying he's a socialist.

 

Jitter65

(3,089 posts)
70. And don't forget the hypocrisy about the MIC.
Wed May 4, 2016, 07:13 AM
May 2016

Sanders announced on CNN that defense contractors that move jobs abroad shouldn't receive US government contracts. Yet Sanders favored MIC corporation, Lockheed-Martin, maintains factories around the world: http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/who-we-are/global.html

Yet Sanders has repeatedly defended federal funding for Lockheed-Martin and what now amounts to a trillion dollars for the F-35 boondoggle. http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2 ... -explosion

Vinca

(50,269 posts)
72. Do you want to go down this path?
Wed May 4, 2016, 08:00 AM
May 2016

If Bernie supporters begin doing the GOP's work for them by elaborating at length on Hillary (and Bill's) negatives, this might be a very long thread.

Vinca

(50,269 posts)
87. A whole generation has grown up not knowing the most sordid bits.
Wed May 4, 2016, 12:45 PM
May 2016

But I'm sure they'll be well informed by Trump in the coming months. One of the women has already indicated she's ready to go on the stump against Hillary and a couple of the others never met a camera they didn't love.

KPN

(15,643 posts)
76. It's the economy/jobs/income inequality, stupid.
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:08 AM
May 2016

Americans want an FDR Democrat!

That's Bernie! Get over it.

Hiraeth

(4,805 posts)
83. Good lord. The Repubs will probably yeehaw those youthful sex writings.
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:27 AM
May 2016

Are you fucking kidding me.

The very things establishment Dems hate about the Bern is what Repubs LOVE about him.

Time for change

(13,714 posts)
86. I notice that there were no links in your OP -- Just a bunch of assertions
Wed May 4, 2016, 12:03 PM
May 2016

If you had even a single link it would be possible to respond to it -- in which case I'll bet your accusations would just fade away.

wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
91. I noticed you lack the initiative to click the link into the story...
Wed May 4, 2016, 02:49 PM
May 2016

... which has all the links you need.

Time for change

(13,714 posts)
93. Sorry, I missed that link.
Thu May 5, 2016, 10:31 AM
May 2016

Did you add that following my comment, or did I just miss it? If I missed it, I apologize.

In any event, I see no links in the article, it's just an opinion piece attack against Bernie. That makes it very hard to respond to.

Regarding his trip to Nicaragua, you say "it would be nice if this were due to a national consensus on the criminal nature of the Contras". I don't know what you mean by that. Do you mean that if there was no national consensus on that then it didn't exist? The Contras were beyond criminal, they conducted genocide on a large scale. Reagan's support for them should have led to charges of war crimes, and would have except for the fact that the United States is too powerful for that to happen. Congress outlawed the aid he was giving them, but he ignored Congress and kept on doing so. So if Bernie were part of a protest against genocide in Nicaragua, then all the more credit to him, and I'm sure that he could defend himself very well against any charges relating to that. Whatever the crowd was chanting at the time, Bernie cannot be held responsible for that. He was protesting against genocide. You have a problem with that?

Youthful sex writings? Oh, come on. I don't know anything about those, but I have heard that they were of a feminist nature. Good luck with Donald Trump trying to make a big deal about that.

As for the rest of it, can you show me any article that specifically talks about any of it in any detail, rather than just an opinion piece that attacks him for everything they can think of, with no links that would help anyone judge the context or accuracy of what they are claiming?

 

Jitter65

(3,089 posts)
88. To me, the true heart of the man was exposed during the Sierra Blanca incident.
Wed May 4, 2016, 02:13 PM
May 2016

Thank god for Wellstone.

DLCWIdem

(1,580 posts)
92. yes
Wed May 4, 2016, 04:44 PM
May 2016

I have heard that they are comparing him to Wellstone now. Wellstone must be turning over in his grave. I showed that article from dailykos to one of his supporters and she was very surprised. She said it opened her eyes.

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