Hartmann pleading that Bernie supporters not vote for Trump.

[LuvLoogie]

Thom has had some callers today saying they are voting for Trump in the general if Bernie does not win.

The Revolution will not be Democratized.

[Baobab]

40. I definitely will not vote for Trump

But after her deception on health care and education and secret deals I cannot vote for Hillary either.

[still_one]

101. and I will definitely not vote for trump or Sanders

[LexVegas]

2. A revolution of angry white dudes. nt

[Armstead]

11. yep nothing but white guys

?resize=* &output-quality=75



?itok=dqe4-5D5

[appalachiablue]

20. ...

[artislife]

82. Great!!! Great!!! Great!!!

[Betty Karlson]

94. That last pic is so powerful!

Thanks for the pics that spoke louder than 1000 words.

[NurseJackie]

21. Disproportionate. (Not "nuthin' but".)

Call me cynical, but it's much easier to stage close-up shots and to be more selective. These really aren't representative of what we typically see in the wide-angle photos.

Besides, it is what it is. No need to get defensive about it. Embrace the truth of what photos and what polling data tells us.

[Armstead]

29. The representation of it as just a bunch of angry white Bernioebros diminishes the issues involved

That's why

And yeah, here's some "white dudes" too. They're not irrelevant eitehr.

[NurseJackie]

33. I see I've touched a nerve. Oops, sorry.

What other motivation could there be for such heroic efforts on your part to find photographic examples that attempt to disprove (or at best, to show exceptions for) that which we already know to be true?

As I said, it really doesn't matter, and will not change the outcome. Bernie's demographic is worth noting and it helps to explain his victories and defeats, but it's odd to me how many here seem to take offense whenever this is mentioned. It is what it is. No biggie.

I get that it's probably a "personal pride" issue with you (and/or with many other Bernie fans) and that you dislike the generalizations that describe the demographic of who the majority of Bernie supporters (uh, voters) tend to be.

So, if it truly bothers you that much, then I'll happily concede that "NOT ALL" Bernie fans are "angry-white-guys" if you'll also stipulate that most are.

The person who started this subthread didn't say "Berniebros" ... you're injecting that. I'm really not in a position to offer an opinion on how many are actually "Bernie-Bros", it all seems rather subjective and irrelevant, doesn't it? Besides, being "angry" doesn't necessarily mean that one has the aggressive "bro" traits.

[AgerolanAmerican]

80. yeah that'll work

Let's keep Sanders supporters voting Democratic after an openly rigged process and changing their registrations so they can't vote in the primary and if they have a problem with that call them sexist and racist.

Absolutely nothing could go wrong with that plan. Will ensure loyalty for generations to come.

[woolldog]

34. The ones saying they'll vote for Trump over Clinton are most definitely white.

When the data is examined, that's what you'll find.

[thebeautifulstruggle]

37. and?

[woolldog]

41. And?

LexVegas is right. Try to keep up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511898442#post2

[AgingAmerican]

39. Do you hate white people?

If so, why?

[woolldog]

43. hate?

where did you get any of that from my post.

[Loudestlib]

58. "The ones saying they'll vote for Trump over Clinton are most definitely white."

citation needed

[highprincipleswork]

26. What a crock!

[JPnoodleman]

92. So all white males should vote Trump? n/t

[Urchin]

109. But wait

How come it's OK if Hillary has most of the black vote--

But it's not OK if Sanders has most of the white vote?

What are you implying---spell it out for us.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. It's up to Hillary alone to change that,

if that is even possible.

[Yavin4]

15. Common fucking sense should change that.

You gotta be a damn fool to vote for Trump.

[TheCowsCameHome]

18. Don't tell me who to vote against, rather

convince me who to vote FOR.

That is Hillary's job. Get busy.

[Yavin4]

49. If you believe that Hillary needs to convince you to vote for her over Trump...

then you are lost. Absolutely lost.

[TheCowsCameHome]

53. She has to sell her product to me

and all the other undecided voters.

My days of voting against a candidate are over

That's why I supported Sanders - a person that I could vote "for" instead of against.

If Hillary can't convince me, so be it.

[Yavin4]

57. Trump wants to ban all Muslims from the U.S.

And Hillary has to convince you? Really?

[egalitegirl]

59. Others including Hillary want to bomb Muslims

How do we resolve our dilemma? Trump wants to ban Muslims from the US while Hillary and the rest of the candidates except Bernie want to wage war on Muslim countries. Which is the more compassionate path? Keeping them from immigrating to the US or waging war against them and killing them? Or neither? If neither, it is then a vote for Bernie Sanders that will achieve the desired outcome.

[TheCowsCameHome]

61. Stop that.

You're making too much sense.

[TheCowsCameHome]

60. I see. Vote Hillary because she won't ban Muslims.

That's like saying she likes little kittens, baby ducks, and apple apple.

What Trump (or anyone else) wants and what he gets are light years apart.

In other words - Duh.

[CajunBlazer]

63. What makes you think Hillary needs your vote in particular?

These are two things I have learned on DI:

1) DU members are in no way representative of Democratic voters and Democratic leaning Independents at large. DU members are far more passionate and involved in the animosity between Sanders supporters and Hillary supporters. Others, not so much or not at all.

2) DU members make up a extremely tiny fraction of Democratic voters and Democratic leaning Independents. Whether we vote or not, no one will notice.

Conclusion: The vast majority of Sanders supporters in the "real world" will not act like DU Sanders supporters. Polls show that the overwhelming majority of millennials who voted for Sanders will vote for Hillary in the general election. Trump has alienated the three groups of voters into which he has to make inroads. Women, Blacks and Hispanics are solidly in Hillary's corner. Large segments of the Republicans leaders and common voters will not support Trump or vote for him. Many of my Republican friends have told my today that they will not cast a vote for President.

To Sanders supporters who say, "Hillary has to earn my vote": Don't hold your breath. Vote as you see fit or don't vote all; we would love to have your support and your votes for Hillary, but after your tiny number of votes are scattered across all 50 states, they very unlikely to be critical to electing the next President.

[TheCowsCameHome]

67. You actually think she doesn't want or need it?

Seriously?

She's wasting a lot of time and money on the campaign trail courting total strangers if she isn't looking for EVERY SINGLE VOTE out there.

Good grief........

[CajunBlazer]

70. Sure she is looking for every single vote

But she won't miss yours you if don't vote for her. Even if you live in a swing state, it is very highly unlikely that Sanders supporters here on DU will make a critical difference in your state's outcome one way or the other.

That is simply a fact.

[TheCowsCameHome]

72. You can't speak for her, or her campaign.

It's best to leave it alone, before your get in over your head.

She wants every vote, period, and you (should) know it.

[CajunBlazer]

74. Don't worry your little self about me

[still_one]

103. and that is why I will NEVER vote for trump or sanders

[obamanut2012]

97. I cannot believe there are even conversations like this on here

Anyone who says they will help Trump get elected -- INCLUDING BY THROWING THEIR VOTE AWAY -- is just....

[Stuckinthebush]

48. That about sums it up

A damn fool.

[azurnoir]

4. Worry not Tom, we won't vote for Trump

[NWCorona]

6. This!

[Duckhunter935]

14. Same here

[Bobbie Jo]

17. Meh

Not voting for the top of the ticket
Doing a write-in
Voting third party

Nets the same result, a vote for Trump.

Sorry, the hint at a "work around" isn't clever in the least.

[farleftlib]

24. Bzzzzzzzt. Wrong answer.

Not voting for the top of the ticket, doing a write-in or voting third party is
not and never will be a vote for somebody else. Hillary is not only very
uninspiring, she is not trusted. If she loses, and she will, it will be nobody's
fault but her own and the DNC who shoved a flawed and scandal-laden
nominee down the throats of the Democratic party.

[Bobbie Jo]

31. It is what it is.

Do what you need to do, but this is the bottom line.

In effect, it's a vote for Trump.

[pdsimdars]

50. And I say a vote for Hillary is a vote for Trump. . . and what I say is backed up by the polls

Hillary loses to Trump.

If you vote for Bernie, you are voting for the best candidate to BEAT Trump. So if YOU vote for Hillary then you are giving the election to Trump.

[CajunBlazer]

65. Sanders' name will not be on the ballot

If you write his name in you will be among the few thousand that do and no one but you will know or care.

[Jester Messiah]

79. That may well be enough. n/t

[CajunBlazer]

64. I'll bet you an get good odds on that proposition in Vegas

[Shadowflash]

32. And I'm told that

NOT voting for Trump is a vote for HRC. I guess they'll cancel each other out.

[uponit7771]

42. +1, my experience with the far left is just this... burning down the village to save it

l

[CajunBlazer]

66. +1,000

[Urchin]

45. At least

When their grandchildren ask them, "Why didn't you do something in 2016 to save America from Oligarchy?"

They'll be able to answer, "I voted for Bernie Sanders."

[CajunBlazer]

68. Your grandchilden will not care who you voted for

[Urchin]

84. Speak for your own grandchildren

I'm grateful my grandfather and father voted for FDR the first time, and again, and again, and again.

[CajunBlazer]

86. Times are a changing

Your grandchildren might ask you why you threw your vote away when you might have helped prevent Trump from becoming President.

And by the way if your father voted for FDR for his first term, the latest he could have been born was 1911, and probably before that. That would probably put you in your middle 70's or 80's if your story is true. That would mean that your grand children could easily be in their 30's and 40's. That's usually well past the age when they are are impressed with who grandpa voted for.

Of course you could have been exaggerating a bit.

[Urchin]

88. My grandfather was born in 1870.

My grandfather was born in 1870, and I am not in my 70's or 80's.

I come from a family in which some of the men marry late.

Like this family:

Two grandsons of President Tyler — who was born in 1790 and served as tenth president of the United States — are still alive today:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/01/president-tyler-grandson-alive.html

[CajunBlazer]

89. Your grand childern probably still will not care how you vote

And if they do, don't be surprised if some disagree with your choice.

[Urchin]

90. I haven't even had any children yet.

And even if I did, so what? And even if they were fifty or sixty or seventy years old--so what?

Would it make you feel better if I said when my great grandchildren ask or when my great, great grandchildren ask?

I tell you what: When I die, I'll leave a note to all my posterity on my tombstone: "Don't blame me kids, I supported Bernie Sanders in 2016."

[CajunBlazer]

91. At last we agree: I think that would be an excellent summary of your life.

[TheKentuckian]

98. Somehow it seems you missed how the principle of addition works.

The only way to add to any candidates tally is to cast a vote for them. There is no other way except for election shenanigans to increase the number of votes a candidate gets.

[pdsimdars]

99. You always post this exact same nonsense.

A vote for Hillary is a vote for Trump.
Because if Hillary wins the nomination, she will lose the election. She is the worse candidate in poll after poll for reason after reason.

[Bobbie Jo]

100. We're talking GE here

Bernie won't be on the ticket.

Like I told another poster upthread, do what you need to do but don't pretend it's anything other than what it is...

It's a cop out and in effect, a vote for Trump.

So don't vote for her, just be honest about the real effect of your action/inaction.

I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to come back here again to insult me. Then I took a peek at your transperency page...

[pdsimdars]

110. And like I said, we are not in the GE at this point.

You are not paying attention to the present.
It always happens that people who aren't paying attention to where they are walking, but thinking about where they are going, they always run into something they didn't expect.

So don't figure out why you support her. Don't blame anyone else if she doesn't win and if she does you don't get what you thought.




What is it? Which of these issues are you strongly supporting?



.

[dlwickham]

5. it's a long climb out from underneath that bus

[Eric J in MN]

35. We're not throwing Hartmann under the bus for saying HRC is better than Trump. NT

NT

[dlwickham]

54. He was tossed there a few weeks ago

[Nanjeanne]

7. Real Bernie supporters who know what Bernie's policies are - are not going to vote for Trump but

they also may not vote for Hillary - they may prefer to align with Jill Stein who mirrors their beliefs more closely than Hillary.

People who say they support Bernie but might vote Trump are simply dissatisfied voters voting against the status quo. Those people are making a protest vote against the establishment. They never supported Sanders because of his policies. You can't consider Trump if you think Bernie's policies are the right ones to put this country back on track to prosperity for the 99%. But you can consider Stein.

[CajunBlazer]

69. Whooooo! Jill Stein!!! The most unqualified person running for President

The only reason anyone would vote for her is that they are damn sure she could never get herself elected.

[Bobbie Jo]

75. Jill Stein

These folks may as well write in Mickey Mouse, it will have the same effect.

[Nanjeanne]

76. You missed the point but I'm not surprised.

[CajunBlazer]

77. I didn't miss your point, I pointly ignored it

I thought you would have noticed.

[Nanjeanne]

83. I'm sorry were you talking to me?

[CajunBlazer]

87. No, of course not

You would consider yourself too smart to be having this conversation.

[Raine]

93. Yes, there is Jill Stein! nt

[TCJ70]

8. I don't think a majority of Bernie folks would vote FOR Trump, but...

...I do think many will just leave the presidential box blank this time around. I wonder if there are statistics that keep track of that? I plan on voting down ticket but if it's Clinton/Trump I can't sign my name to either of them.

[lancer78]

23. I ask that you reconsider

My cousin was raped and impregnated by the rapist. Under a Trump presidency, Trump might nominate Justices who will vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. I know you don't like HRC, and I am not a fan either, but there are bigger things to consider.

[TCJ70]

47. I appreciate your kind response...

...and your cousin's situation is horrible. My name is already tied to a candidate I voted for and regret enormously. Granted, I was young and not as aware as I am now. I won't have my name tied to whatever useless wars and policies Clinton may enact.

[CajunBlazer]

71. They will be joined in that inaction by hell of a lot of Republicans

[farleftlib]

9. I doubt any real Bernie supporters would vote for Trump

The third-wayers see the writing on the wall and want someone to blame when
HRC loses in a big way in the GE. Sorry, but I'm not buying what they're selling.

Don't blame us because Hillary is ballot box poison. Most distrusted candidate ever.

[appalachiablue]

12. +1

[CajunBlazer]

73. If Hillary doen't win it won't be the fault of anyone on DU

Our numbers are simply to small to matter much. However, if votes for a third party candidate do deprive Hillary of the Presidency, blame is inevitable and that third party will suffer in future elections.

Hence the political truism: "Third parties are like Bees, when they sting they die."

[blm]

10. Those are Trump trolls not Bernie voters.

Trump is trying to CREATE a movement of Sanders voters to him. He's been doing it the last 2 weeks and I expect he'll continue to do so for the next few months.

He obviously thinks Sanders supporters are as dumb and malleable as his. Newsflash, Donald….we are NOT.

[appalachiablue]

13. Interesting, I can see Herr Trump trying this. Last night Lawrence O'Donnell

on MSNBC was talking some strange stuff about an effort by HC to win disaffected Republicans with help from George Will. A la Dems for Reagan?!

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. This is far from surprising.

and it goes for both sides.

At times I feel like just throwing my arms up...

[appalachiablue]

19. My education on political maneuverings has advanced but

l want to try to not go full on cynical, but it's hard with crap like this which apparently takes place.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. I cover local politics

We now have a PAC for a city council seat. Yup I am cynical

[blm]

22. Significant difference in appealing to those in GOP with whatever remains of

their intellectual honesty, and Trump believing Sanders voters are as intellectually bankrupt as his base who will fall for his antics.

I see a huge difference, anyway.

[JoePhilly]

27. + 1

[Eric J in MN]

36. +1 (NT)

NT

[highprincipleswork]

28. Totally depends on what Hillary & the Democratic Party decide to do.(Assuming she becomes candidate)

[HooptieWagon]

30. Most won't...

...but Trump has staked out a few positions left of Hillary that some Sanders supporters may find attractive.

[thebeautifulstruggle]

38. and it's crazy that Trump is left of any D candidate on some issues

...

[whatchamacallit]

44. Bernie Supporters won't vote for Trump, so...

[pdsimdars]

51. The only rational response to all of these ENDLESS threads and discussions like this

A vote for Hillary is a vote for Trump.

In every poll for months now, Bernie is the better candidate against Trump. For MONTHS.
So, by selecting Hillary as your candidate, you are voting for Trump to win, by selecting the provably weaker, and hugely flawed candidate.

Why don't you people want to win? You don't really want to win or you'd put the best candidate in the race.

[arcane1]

52. As always, I'll vote for the candidate who most closely matches my values.

It sure as hell won't be Trump.

[Demsrule86]

55. Hartmann get Trump voters all the time.

Faux righties making mischief. I like Hartmann but he was wrong about Bernie staying in the race...look at the harm already done to our part. Your partisan feeling clouded your judgment, Thom.

[wendylaroux]

56. The Revolution will not be Democratized.? this whole gd primary was not Democratized.

[pat_k]

62. "The Revolution will not be Democratized" ???

What do you mean by this?

[Jester Messiah]

78. Wasn't planning to.

Not Hillary, but not Trump either.

[kevinmc]

81. They are Trump supporters hiding behnd Berne n/t

[The Second Stone]

85. Sanders supporters aren't going to vote for Trump

they may not vote for Clinton, but they aren't going to vote for Trump. Duh.

They are welcome to vote as they please and their consciences guide them. That's democracy. We either succeed with democracy, or fail with it. Americans have botched it a number of times, but never failed at it.

Hillary Clinton's picks for the courts will be much like Obama's, and even four years of picks (not just USSC, but all federal courts) will undermine the GOP brand of fascism severely.

Incrementalism is a bitch, but I notice that when it comes to getting votes and delegates, all the candidates are more than willing to do it one at a time.

[deepestblue]

95. Lol

Someone will need to explain to me how a BERNIE supporter could EVER vote for a NEO-CON war machine. Ever. Let alone ALL the other issues.

[B Calm]

96. I'm not there yet on who I will support IF Bernie loses. As long as Bernie is still in the race, I

Support Bernie.

[Kip Humphrey]

102. Feet of clay, meet knees of clay as TH demonstrates his failure to appreciate the finer points of

revolution.

[beachbum bob]

104. a true insult to bernie sanders is any of his supporters voting for trump....most likley these

people were never supporters in the first place

[ViseGrip]

105. Hey Hartman, I like your show and your revenues are up. That can change.

[VulgarPoet]

106. Jill Stein exists.

Why the actual, bloody fuck would we vote for Trump? I have a hard time believing those were actually Bernie supporters.

[WhiteTara]

107. Didn't he do a lot of Hillary bashing

and Bernie worshiping? Now he's trying to clean up his mess. No wonder I don't watch Russia Today.

[LuvLoogie]

108. Yeah, he and Cenk. So did Jeff Santos,

but his show got dumped for Norman Goldman here in Chicago on WCPT, which had become Bernie Sanders Radio all afternoon.