No, Bernie can't win the nomination

[cali]

Barring the unlikely cataclysmic, Hillary is the nominee. Yell at me, curse me, accuse me of being a faux Bernie supporter, but anyone who thinks super delegates are going to switch is living in a fantasy. It's close to impossible for Bernie to win enough pledged delegates to pull ahead. And even if he did, the super delegates won't switch. There are other reasons for him to stay in through the remainder of the primaries.

And then? Then he should endorse her. He shouldn't take a dead campaign to the conversation. He owes the party that much: He ran as a democrat. He has repeatedly said what a disaster trump will be.

But speaking of fantasies, the majority of DU Clinton supporters nurse their own. It is delusional to claim that Bernie is more hawkish than Hillary and that she isn't a hawk. Reality in the form of a ton of historical evidence is clear.

Vote for Hillary, don't vote for her, but she will be the democratic party nominee. As for me? My vote is my business and I have no intention of revealing whether I'll vote for her or not, but I will say this: I think trump is the most dangerous kind of insane.

[elehhhhna]

1. lol autopost.

[NurseJackie]

2. Global Zero Scorecard

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/27/11504272/hillary-clinton-hawk

It was a simple scorecard, assembled by a non-partisan nuclear nonproliferation group called Global Zero, comparing the five remaining candidates on a battery of eight foreign policy issues.

On every issue that Global Zero measured, Clinton is indicated as far less hawkish than all three of the Republican candidates, and as basically tied with Bernie Sanders. She supports the Iran nuclear deal; the Republicans all oppose it. She supports using diplomacy to solve the North Korean nuclear crisis; John Kasich is the only Republican to do so. She supports negotiating with Russia to reduce nuclear weapons; no Republican candidate does.

(More parody for you, Cali! )

[cali]

5. Lol. That is as devoid of meaning as the ridiculous charts and graphs

people post that purportedly show how liberal or conservative pols are.

You live in a total fantasy. Every bit as much as Bernie supporters who think he'll win the nomination.

[bigwillq]

7. Great post.

[NurseJackie]

10. Aren't you sweet? :-P

You live in a total fantasy. Every bit as much as Bernie supporters who think he'll win the nomination.

That's actually very funny!

[Warren DeMontague]

18. Nuclear weapons are not the only yardstick for foreign military adventurism, Jackie.

[Joob]

3. Yes Bernie can, and no. He doesn't owe this party. They actively oppose him.

And I don't plan on sticking around if Hillary does win.

When have Super delegates ever voted against who has the most pledged delegates? Never.
I believe Bernie can still get the pledged delegates, lots of liberal states coming up.

[cali]

8. Sorry, but he joined the party so yes, tucked up as it is, he owes dems his endorsement

of her. He'll make a mockery of himself and his campaign if he doesn't. But he will.

[Joob]

9. Okay but it's been pretty clear the DNC is against Bernie, an endorsement won't help Hillary

Not the way she ran her campaign

[blm]

14. Under the boards you fully expect elbows to be thrown.

Sanders got my vote because he jumped into the arena and put himself on the line, just as HRC did.

Who on earth expected a political campaign to look like an afternoon tea?

It seems to me not many of you know that Sanders could be a brawler. Madeleine Kunin knew. Dems should WANT their candidates to be tough enough for the race ahead.

[thucythucy]

56. Precisely. As long as Bernie sticks with the issues

and the campaign doesn't devolve into a mudfest, I think Bernie does the party a favor by staying in, at least until California.

The more Dems think about the election, the more will be sure to register, the more will vote.

The more media attention he draws to the race, the better, I think, for both candidates.

Hillary in '08 stayed in until pretty much the very end, and her campaign then I think actually helped President Obama (though at the time I was wishing she'd drop out earlier, once then Senator Obama obviously had the campaign sewn up).

Whatever the outcome, Bernie can be and will be a huge asset to the party, if he so chooses. And knowing him to be a man of principle, I believe he will so choose.

[litlbilly]

21. cali, im beginning to think youre account was hacked or something.

[litlbilly]

23. and, no, Bernie owes the democratic party exactly nothing imo.

[senz]

28. I'm beginning to wonder if some "reviewed" DUers are are allowed to come back

only if they meet certain conditions.

BMUS has also been off of review status, and therefore "active," for weeks -- but she doesn't come back.

Something seems very ... off.

[cali]

30. No, there were no conditions and I could have come back

Weeks ago. I have always said precisely what I think. If it soothes your sole, I still think Hillary is a corrupt corporate tool and a consummate liar with no leadership skills.

[senz]

36. Well at least you weren't brainwashed --

that's something, anyway.

But are you aware that Hill CANNOT get the nom from the delegate count now? She will need the superdelegates to stick with her. So it is not, at this time a done deal.

Plus, indictment is still hanging in the air, and Biden's profile was recently elevated which may mean that TPTB want an establishment substitute for Hillary -- and undoubtedly they know more than we do.

And -- we are probably headed for a contested convention.

So it is way too soon to throw in the towel on Bernie's candidacy, despite what Hill fans want us to think.

[cali]

41. Oh ffs.

[bkkyosemite]

53. How can your conscious vote for a "corrupt corporate tool and a consummate liar"

[amborin]

32. my thoughts, exactly; a "conversion" story; this is troubling: "even if he did, the super delegates

"even if he did (win the majority of delegates), the super delegates won't switch."

that spells the end of democracy; and for that reason, alone, Bernie and his supporters have every reason to contest

[blm]

39. LOLOLOL - If that is what you guys think - you don't know cali.

I used to laugh about how knee-jerk the reactions are whenever a Sanders supporter would dare to speak of their own observations and ask for a standard of accuracy when launching an attack. Now, I have to laugh that you also think cali, of all people, is somehow NOT speaking her mind.

cali has been speaking ONLY her mind for well over a decade here. And who put any of you in charge of who is and who is not a good enough Sanders supporter, anyway?

[cali]

42. It is pretty funny. I've kinda worn my "I don't give a shit what you think"

thing pretty brazenly- probably because I don't. As I've said repeatedly, I don't buy my ideas or opinions wholesale.

[bkkyosemite]

54. ethically I don't know how you can do it. what you said in your other post.

[cali]

57. Ethically, I hew to reality. Always have.

I've said from the get go he wouldn't get it. Betting against the house is almost always a risky venture. In this case, the house is the dem establishment. The establishment is firmly opposed to him and strong enough to hold him off. Do I think that's fucked? Absolutely, but that's reality. I also think Hillary will be an awful president.

[blm]

60. heh…same here….but, anyone paying attention would know that….

and that's just the problem I'm seeing here these days….too many aren't paying attention and only respond positively to what they perceive as dogma.

Glad you're back, kiddo.

Props always….even when we're not on the same page. ; )

[cali]

64. Back at you

[litlbilly]

43. Im seeing that too. I was on review for a few days so that was fun:)

[cali]

47. Oh for fuck's sake. Pathetic. And none too swift

[Lizzie Poppet]

59. On JPR, there has been talk of people being "perma-reviewed."

One poster said she's been on review status since late last year. I have no idea if that claim has any merit, though.

I've been on review twice now. It took several days in both cases, not the 24 hours stated for most cases. I suspect the volume of reviews is pretty huge and it's hard for the admins to keep up...given how nasty this primary season has been.

[jwirr]

22. Cali are you aware that Bernie and Hillary are direct opposites

in the direction they would lead the party? He has only one reason to endorse her and that is to defeat Trump. I have been one of his supporters from the first - a long time Democrat - and when Bernie walks out of that convention I stop donating, volunteering and I will also register as an Independent.

I have no intention of helping her give the banks and corporations what they want. I will move on and work to implement Bernie's issues. And I will lobby against hers.

[cali]

26. You should know better.

[jwirr]

29. Oh, I will vote against Trump but not for Hillary.

[Adrahil]

45. In our winner take all electoral system, it's the same thing.

Either Trump or Clinton will benthe nominee. Not voting for Clinton helps Trump, however you want to justify it to yourself.

You may not like it, but that's how our political process works. Whoever you intend to vote for CANNOT win.

[bkkyosemite]

52. The Dem party attacked Bernie full force. He does not owe anything to them he owes to his

supporters.

[Marr]

37. I tend to agree with you.

The party has not played fair in this primary at all. I'm sure he *will* endorse her, and it's his call to make, of course, but if he didn't, I wouldn't blame him.

[Sheepshank]

69. I'm sure DU will be fine without your long term contribution to the board. Nt

[firebrand80]

4. Hooray for common sense nt

[aikoaiko]

6. This reminds me of a discussion in graduate school....

A friend of mine in an experimental psychology program said that, as an academic, he believes that our behaviors are determined by an interaction of genes and environment, but he generally lives his day as if he has free will and life has many possibilities depending on choices.

So yes, pending catastrophe for HRC, Bernie will not be nominee, but its a lot more fun to behave as if it wasn't determined.

[oasis]

11. Like Lola Delaney in William Inge's "Come Back Little Sheba". nt

[hrmjustin]

12. For Sanders to win the super delegates would have to ignore the will of the voters.

He can't win.

[blm]

13. brutally honest…...

Yes, you'll probably be joining more of us 'faux Bernie supporters' marked as guilty for the crime of siding with accuracy and clarity.

[Gothmog]

15. I have never accepted the argument that Sanders is electable

Sanders is totally unvetted because the new media does not believe that he will be the nominee and the Clinton campaign has been treating Sanders with kids gloves. There is a ton of stuff that would be used by Trump to destroy Sanders. I am not willing to risk the control of the SCOTUS to a candidate who I firmly believe is not electable. Trump and Rove has way too much material that would destroy Sanders in a general election.

[JoePhilly]

16. Agree almost completely.

I don't think you needed to take a swing at "the majority of DU Clinton supporters".

But that's ok.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. I agree. I also think he's doing her a favor by staying in the race.

And yes, when it is all done, he should endorse her. And I believe he will.

And she should seriously consider why so many people, particularly young people, or people in Western states, have supported him, and adjust her policy proposals accordingly.

[jwirr]

19. Cali is there a reason why you think that we should not

continue the fight? More happens at the conventions than nominating a candidate.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. I want to see Sanders, Newsom, Merkley and Blumenauer get a marijuana legalization plank in there

and then Debbie Wasserman Schultz, she who votes to send cancer-ridden grannies to prison for medical cannabis, can grit her teeth as she presides over the thing.

[Lizzie Poppet]

61. Blumenauer is dead to me.

Oregon superdelegate...pre-committed to Hillary. Screw him. I couldn't primary him (I don't live in his district), although I did primary Bonamici, who's also a Hillary SD).

[Warren DeMontague]

73. Im not all that hung up on that, but ymmv may vary of course.

My main concern is whether they're right on the issues, so bluemenauer, brown, bomamici and the rest getting on the hillary train doesnt bother me that much.

[cali]

27. I said he should continue through the primaries

[pat_k]

24. No. He should stay in until the convention.

As I said in an earlier post today:

His point has always been simple: "Wait until voters in every state have their say, and then give the superdelegates a chance to consider, perhaps change their minds, and vote accordingly at the convention.

No one can possibly argue that the race did not change substantially after most of the superdelegates came out and endorsed Clinton. He is right. He needs to stay in until the convention to give those superdelegates a chance to take subsequent developments into account.

If he loses the remaining states by large margins, he'll simply be calling on the delegates he won to go to the convention and make their voices known; to make it clear that there are substantial numbers who believe this nation desperately needs a New, New Deal. (A position that many Hillary delegates are likely to join in, particularly given that exit polling shows that many made their choice, not on positions, but rather on their belief about "electability.&quot

In other words, however it goes between now and June 14, he should not "drop out" or "fall in line." In the former case, he would deny the superdelegates the chance to reconsider; in the latter case, he would deny his delegates the opportunity to advocate the Sanders agenda on his behalf.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511899803

[amborin]

34. absolutely!

[senz]

25. Presently, Hillary can't get there either. She can't get 2,382 delegates before the convention.

Too soon to give up, cali.

[questionseverything]

31. the democratic party will not have a nominee that is under fbi investigation

it would be suicidal

how it will happen i am not sure but at some point the party insiders will realize if they continue supporting a candidate with an on going investigation, the people will realize the justice system is completely broken and i don't think they(tptb) are ready for everything to be unmasked

[pdsimdars]

33. Hillary won't win the General Election

A vote for Hillary in the primary is a vote for Trump to be President.

[amborin]

35. exactly

[senz]

38. Yes, our best defense against Trump is Bernie Sanders.

[moriah]

40. I've never seen DUers claim Bernie was more hawkish than Hillary...

... but maybe you saw something I didn't.

Still, especially with your name indicating you may have yet to even vote in the Primary, I agree wholeheartedly regarding Trump and hope if you have yet to cast a primary vote, that you do regardless of mathematical challenges. Speak up for the values that made you support Bernie.

If your handle is misleading on your geographical location, it's how I feel for the many who have not yet voted -- don't let math make you stay at home.

[Scurrilous]

44. K & R

[Adrahil]

46. I admire your integrity.

I disagree with your assessment of Sec. Clinton, obviously, but I admire your willingness to recognize the alternative in the GE is far, far worse, especially considering your very strong advocacy here for Sen. sanders.

[cali]

48. Thanks

[Fumesucker]

49. You're working against a one way ratchet going the opposite way of what you want

I fully expect the party to pull a switcheroo if Hillary's legal problems become overwhelming and if Bernie has started supporting Hillary he will end up supporting someone who never ran.

The order of business for the establishment at the moment is NOT Bernie! and then NOT Trump!, everything else is secondary including Hillary, if she becomes more of a liability than an asset she will end up under a scheduled public conveyance.

[Tom Rinaldo]

50. I've missed you Cali. Glad and not at all surprised to see that you still call it like you see it.

DU gets far too crazy far too often from people only being willing to view reality through their own preferred lens, no matter how finely crafted it may be. Anyone who speculates that you modify your views to placate the Admin of DU don't know you.

As to the substance of your OP, I agree. Maybe there is some wiggle room over what would have to be the unlikely cataclysm in order for Bernie to get actually the nomination ( I think it could be something slightly shy of a Hillary email issue indictment coupled with Bernie winning almost all of the remaining states by over 20 points with a 30+ point spread in California). Extremely unlikely. Hundreds of SD's are joined to Hillary at the hip - not enough emergency rooms available near the convention center to do the necessary surgery to separate them all without calling in National Guard medics under a state of emergency.

But hell yes Bernie needs to stay in this thing until the last votes are counted. He needs to educate, he needs to instigate, he needs to pressure and he needs to mobilize. To walk away from the opportunity that his presidential candidacy provides him to do so would be literally insane for any progressive activist who has devoted his life to the cause to do. And sure, there's one chance in 50 something could happen to still make him the Democratic nominee. That's still near infinitely better odds than winning a super lottery jackpot - and someone wins one of those every week.

I have always taken Bernie at his word. He said he would support the Democratic nominee - he will. He said that he believes Hillary on her worst day is thousands of times better than a potential President Trump - he believes that. We, his supporters, are free to take different positions but those are his. Personally, I'm with Bernie on those points also but I understand how others may not be. None of us are forced to be engaged in electoral politics, or even to vote. We can devote our energy to organizing around issues that matter to us, in addition to or as an alternative to electoral politics. I will look for ways to support any ongoing organizing efforts that come out of the Sanders for President campaign and will look to Bernie for continued leadership.

[cali]

51. Thank you Tom. Lovely to see you.

[bullwinkle428]

67. Great post - I can't find a single thing to disagree with, as a Bernie supporter.

[bkkyosemite]

55. The DNC has shown they are willing to cheat, lie and annoint. The DNC is in for a big surprise

for their disgusting ways.

[cali]

58. I agree about the dnc, but whether they're in for a big surprise?

We'll see. I rigorously eschew seeing things through the prism of wishful thinking

[pdsimdars]

62. Keep dreaming little sunshine

[cali]

66. Keep dreaming what?

[H2O Man]

63. Interesting.

Recommended.

[Fronkonsteen]

65. Your title is factually incorrect; thanks for the FUD

What is the purpose of this post? Who are you helping here? If you have an ounce of integrity, you will self-delete this garbage.

People before party. The only debt that Bernie owes is to the people that actually support his campaign, and that does not include the Democratic Party.

People before party. If he decides to run as an independent he will wipe the floor with both Clinton and Trump.

People before party. This is a new century, a new millennium, and the young people, the future, don't give a shit about Democrats or Republicans. They just want someone who will fight for them.

And the most dangerous kind of insane is believing that the choices presented to us by the establishment are the only choices we have.

[cali]

68. Lol. Fuck that

[Fronkonsteen]

71. Okay. Lack of integrity noted.

And my ignore list grows by one.

[Hiraeth]

70. with all due respect: can't never could do nothing. and it ain't over til its over.

I don't appreciate that can't do attitude right now.

You come back to do this?

really?

[mhatrw]

72. I may be deluded in thinking Sanders can win the nomination, but

those who support Clinton over Sanders because they feel that she is the better general election candidate are far more deluded than I.