HuffPost: Bernie is wrong.. "There Can’t Be a Contested Democratic National Convention"

[DCBob]

Political pundits and junkies alike thrill to the prospect of contested conventions, with multiple votes needed to pick a nominee.

And, while Senator Bernie Sanders says this is going to happen at the Democratic National Convention, there’s no way it can.

Sanders hangs his claim on defining “contested convention” in a way it never has been before and ignoring the way voting takes place at the convention.

On Sunday, May 2 Sanders said, “[Clinton] will need super delegates to take her over the top of the convention in Philadelphia. In other words, the convention will be a contested contest.”

But needing superdelegates to get a majority of all delegates is exactly what happened in 2008. No one called that a contested convention.

There was one vote for the nomination, won by then Senator Barack Obama. Contested conventions have multiple ballots.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amy-fried/whatever-sanders-says-the_b_9821374.html

=============

Bottom line.. what happened in 2008 will be what will happen in 2016. The candidate with the most pledged delegates will win on the first ballot with votes from the super delegates. Not that complicated.

[WhiteTara]

1. I agree, but

you are in the past...it's 2016

[DCBob]

3. LOL! fixed.

Thanks!

[WhiteTara]

4. ...

[metroins]

2. I have no idea wtf the Sanders campaign is doing

It's absolute insanity for them to suggest super delegates will super Sanders. After being down 3 million votes, 300 delegates and after all the negative speak towards them.

I don't see how an honest person can make the types of statements the Sanders campaign is.

[DCBob]

5. I guess he is having a hard time facing reality after all the big rallies and excitement and money.

I think its gone to his head a bit.. but I am sure he will come to his sense eventually.

[woolldog]

13. Not hard to figure out. He wants to ride the gravy train for as long as possible.

[merrily]

27. Utter nonsense. Please show us you're better than that.

[Maru Kitteh]

30. That's a lotta twenty-seven dollars right there.

[azurnoir]

38. was the menu borrowed from Bill and Hillary's personal staff?

[Jitter65]

40. And oh...those book deals and speaking engagements to come! He's on his way...

Bet he won't turn down an offer to speak at Goldman for a couple hundred thousand either.

[uponit7771]

47. +1

[arcane1]

76. You cannot possibly be stupid enough to believe that. So you're making it up to troll.

DU should require proof of adulthood before posting

[grossproffit]

14. Proving that he's both an egomaniac and a very sore loser.

[hellofromreddit]

6. Once again

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511880274

Contested -- no candidate is over the magic number of pledged delegates before the convention.

Brokered -- contested convention that isn't resolved by the first vote and delegates can then trade.

Supers don't change a contested convention since the 'contested' bit comes before they can vote. But they can prevent a brokered convention.

[DCBob]

7. The supers change that.

They are essentially the same a pledged delegates in that we are fairly certain how they are going to vote. There is nothing to contest.

[hellofromreddit]

9. No, they cannot change that. They vote after the moment the convention becomes contested.

If the top candidate is even a single vote short of the cutoff after DC votes, then the convention will be contested.

That's just the rule.

[DCBob]

10. They will vote on the first ballot just like the pledged delegates.

We all know how they will vote and Hilary will win. Nothing to contest.

[hellofromreddit]

11. And that would prevent a brokered convention. But it's still contested--SDs can't change that.

[DCBob]

12. Its not since we all know the result except Bernie and his confused supporters.

[hellofromreddit]

15. The eventual result doesn't change it. Your cutesy insult doesn't either.

Whatever the first ballot outcome is, it does not undo the past.

[DCBob]

18. It won't be contested.

Removed the cutesy comment.. how's that?

[uponit7771]

48. Syntax, that's not the ideal of a contested convention ... Clinton wins on first ballot and thats it

[obamanut2012]

53. The Dems cannot have a brokered convention

[Stuckinthebush]

49. That's not the rule

Every state has an allotment of delegates. Pledged and unpledged. During the roll call the state delegations report their totals for each candidate. This total includes all of their delegates -pledged and unpledged

[obamanut2012]

51. They vote on the first ballot

[DCBob]

8. Rachel covered this issue as well..

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/05/03/rachel-maddow-blows-bernie-sanders-contested-nomination-rationale-smithereens.html

[Adrahil]

36. That's not a good definitin really.

It's nearly impossible to have a contested convention with things as they are now. If O'Malley had done better, or if Biden came in, it might have been contested. But with just Sanders and Clinton in, there is no "contest." One of them will win on the first ballot. This is just a fantasy perpetuated by the Sanders campaign to keep their more ardent supporters engaged by making believe Bernie actually has a shot. He doesn't.

[obamanut2012]

55. Right -- a two-candidate race doesn't equal a contested convention

And, Dems don't do brokered conventions.

[Thinkingabout]

79. Except for a link to another post you posted by what authority are you making these rules?

Besides, if Hillary is required to have a majority of pledged delegates then how is Sanders going to be considered as the nominee if he has less. Cognitive dissonance is not going to change the DNC rules. This is not the Sanders primary rules, it is the DNC rules. Guess oligarchy is one of Sanders best features.

[hellofromreddit]

82. You're arguing against things I never said.

Besides, if Hillary is required to have a majority of pledged delegates then how is Sanders going to be considered as the nominee if he has less.

Who are you even talking to?

When Sanders said it will be a contested primary, he's very likely to be right, given what that term actually means. People have their panties in a wad because they don't know the difference between contested and brokered, so I'm pointing out the definition--that's it.

If nobody's over the threshold before the convention, then the word for that situation is contested. No matter how the first ballot turns out, it won't change that fact. If it actually goes to a second ballot then the word is brokered. That's it, that's all I'm claiming. I'm not saying it'll reverse the election, make Sanders the nominee, or any of that other nonsense.

[Thinkingabout]

84. Well, you don't have to worry yourself, Hillary is 165 delegates away from the required

Number, we have more primaries yet, Sanders needs over 100% of the pledged delegates. I would still like to know where you got your rules.

[hellofromreddit]

85. Ask politely and maybe I'll give you the link.

[Ohioblue22]

16. Bernie is now saying screw the super delegates he's going after the super-duper delegates

[lunamagica]

33. ...

[auntpurl]

43. Hee!

[politicaljunkie41910]

17. The reality is....The guy's 74 and this is his last hurrah. After you've heard the chanting

of your name by thousands of millenniums who want their college and medical care paid for by someone else, it's hard to go back to being just another silver haired guy in a crowd of 538 other nothing special members of congress. My guess is we will have to pry Bernie's stone cold hands away from that podium.

[TM99]

28. What a load of horseshit.

He got into this for reasons other than glory and narcissistic ego strokes. This is vastly different that the fucking narcissist Clinton who has been running since Bill left office.

Wow, the projection is just stunning with y'all. I should write a paper on this psychological phenomena.

[Adrahil]

37. I actually don't think it's ego, so much as distorted perception.

He's surrounded by people who tell him he has a real chance at this (people who,mbybthe way, have a financial interest in him believing them) and he attends rallies where thousands of people adore him. It's hard not to believe what Devine and Weaver are peddling when you steeped in an environmt where it seems everyone loves you.

Or.... He knows the score and wants as much political clout as he can get at the convention, and he's playing his supporters.

In my view, those are the only real possibilities.

[obamanut2012]

56. Agreed -- it's exactly what happened to Romney duirng the GE

[politicaljunkie41910]

87. And when all is said and done, Bernie People of Color will still be in the same shitty conditions

they were in before he ran, because he cannot do what he's promised and he knows it. If he needs his supporters to furnish his REVOLUTION and he doesn't think it would come in his first term should he be elected, what do you need someone whose 74 years old for. If he cannot deliver on the goods he's promising in his first term, I guarantee you he will not get the chance for a second term. He's not different than the snake oil salesman Trump is. At least Trump (who I believe is full of horseshit himself) is making the claim that HE is going to Make America Great Again. Bernie says it your fault if he can't do it.

[Scurrilous]

31. LOL

They'll have to bring out the hook.

[rhett o rick]

39. Claiming that helping college students is giving them something free is a right wing talking point.

You've probably not been paying attention but Clinton has come around to the position of helping college students out.

And we are just getting this revolution that will throw out your big money friends out of our government. Then what will you do.

Full Ignore for you

[politicaljunkie41910]

86. Clinton has always had a plan to allow Student Loans to be refinance at much lower rates than

the current law allows. I agree with her proposal. If that constitutes a RW talking point so be it. As far as my "big money friends" in government, I have none so say what you will. I will say that my background is in Accounting and Finance so I know a little something about balance sheets and making things work. I also know about taxation, and having lived in California all my life except for the 4 years I spent in the military, and most recently a two year work assignment in Virginia, I know that my husband and I over our lifetime and our 38 year marriage have paid enough in taxes while paying for our own children's college education.

In California, we pay high state taxes to support our air quality and infrastructure and I never wanted to leave California for some Red State where the governor doesn't believe in science, or wants to abolish the EPA to get around regulations that would have saved Flint from this disaster that they now want the Federal Govt to pay for.

[Gothmog]

19. Sanders is lying about a contested convention to keep the small dollar donations flowing

[BootinUp]

20. Sanders has NEVER lied. Everyone KNOWS that.

[Number23]

21. Now I see why Effie has a post in this forum saying he needs to go sit his ass down somewhere

[basselope]

22. Hillary withdrew prior to the convention, which is why it wasn't contested.

This one is.

[DCBob]

23. Which is precisekly what Bernie will do.

Otherwise he will be seen as foolish and desperate.

[basselope]

25. Not likely.

On either count.

No reason to withdraw, when the opposition is as weak a candidate as Hillary.

[TM99]

29. What crystal ball does you that?

If he or she does not secure the number of delegates need to win outright, it is automatically a contested convention.

Now the supers may vote for Clinton and end it on the first vote but it is still contested.

The only ones pushing the foolish and desperate meme are the same ones who have dismiss him, his positions, and his policies since he began to upset the coronation of the anointed one.

[jfern]

24. Fail. Contested and brokered are no the same thing.

[merrily]

26. In 2008, Hillary continued running after a win was mathematical impossble--and her campaign was in

debt to boot.

[leftynyc]

44. Bullshit

She was MUCH closer to then Sen Obama's delegate total than Bernie is. MUCH closer. And she had won the popular vote as well. On the day she suspended the pledged delegate total for Obama was 1661 and 1592 for Hillary. And she still suspended. If Bernie holds on longer than that, he will destroy his legacy and only hurt the party. I don't think he's that selfish but we'll see.

[nolawarlock]

32. I'm just curious who he's going to get to help him contest ...

... Super delegates like this Al?

[azurnoir]

42. seeing that Al's state went hands down for Bernie, perhaps the feelings are not so misplaced

but who really cares what those little people want, right?

[nolawarlock]

72. Are those same feelings directed at Raúl Grijalva?

I'm curious about that. It doesn't seem so.

[Tarc]

59. Gezz, what a bunch of Bitter People

"You betrayed us and stole our voice"

[nolawarlock]

73. Yet they applaud Raúl Grijalva...

... whose state went with Hillary.

[Mike Nelson]

34. Hillary will win on the first vote...

...and the convention will not be considered "contested" at all. Hopefully, Bernie will nominate Hillary. In any case, he will get a prime time speaking slot and have his final Election 2016 moment.

[Recursion]

35. Two candidates mean the convention can't be "contested" in the normal sense of the word

One of the two will win the first ballot.

[DCBob]

63. Bernie is attempting to make the case it will be "contested" prior to the first vote.

Which makes no sense since we know Hillary will have the majority of pledged and super delegates at the time of the first ballot.

He is really making himself look small. Too bad after all that he has accomplished and he is now going to go out looking like a fool.

[Betty Karlson]

41. More establishment pearl-clutching. * yawn *

[DCBob]

45. LOL.. common sense and reality are now "pearl clutching" to the Berners.

[Betty Karlson]

67. The echo-chambered bubble around Clinton is not reality.

And I refuse to act as your security blanket.

[DCBob]

68. The "reality" will soon become apparent to everyone.

[Betty Karlson]

71. Good luck with the last of the 20th century campaigns.

[NurseJackie]

46. Two candidates. The first (and only) ballot IS the "contest" isn't it?

[DCBob]

50. That makes sense.. but it's not technically contested in that we all know the outcome.

Except perhaps the delusional Berners.

[NurseJackie]

52. I think they like playing with definitions and splitting hairs.

Good morning, DCBob!

[DCBob]

54. Yep.. morning to you too!

[Skink]

78. Morning Bob the person conceding will be Hillary

If she does it before th convention it won't be contested.

She'll say something like for the good of the country or I am not a crook then release her delegates.

[Tarc]

57. I've bee point out for weeks that the Sanders camp has used the term wrongly

But they just keep chugging on.

[tom-servo]

58. According to wikipedia...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokered_convention

Senator Sanders is right...neither candidate will have enough pledged delegates to win outright and neither candidate will concede so the convention will be contested. However, it can't be brokered because there are an odd number of votes and only two candidates.

[Tarc]

60. That is not at all correct

IF the Democrats had all the pledged delegate vote first, and neither candidate reached 2,383, thus necessitating the superdelegates vote to get one of the candidates over the hump, THEN you could say it is brokered or contested.

That is not the way it is done though; the superdelgates vote right alongside their states' pledged delegates.

[tom-servo]

62. I'll go with wikipedia's definition instead of yours, thanks.

Contested conventions can have the result determined on the first vote, and in this convention the result will be determined on the first vote because it can not be a tie. That is still a "contested" convention. "Brokered" conventions are different.

[Tarc]

64. You still don't know what you're talking about

At no point will the Democratic Convention be considered "contested". Again, all of the delegates vote together.

[DCBob]

61. The only way it can be contested is if the result is in doubt.

It's not in doubt because we know how the supers are going to vote. They are essentially a special type of pledged delegate... they are pledged to themselves. Most have committed/pledged to vote for Hillary just like the actual pledged delegates have pledged to vote for how their states voted. So we know the end result on the first ballot as long as Hillary maintains her lead in the actual pledged delegates after the final states have voted.. which is extremely likely. So there is nothing to contest.

Sanders of course can try and call it contested but it simply wont be. No one is going to listen to him. It just makes him look foolish and desperate.

[tom-servo]

65. I don't think there are "special" types of pledged delegates, only pledged and not-pledged.

If you feel you can predict how super delegates will vote then I suppose you could call the convention "weakly contested", but you can't call it uncontested.

[DCBob]

66. That's exactly what the supers are.. they are a "special" type of a pledged delegate.

They are pledged to themselves. Of course they could change their minds but its very unlikely. Technically the actual pledged delegates could also vote against the will of the voters in their states but that is also very unlikely.

The only way the supers might change their minds would be if Sanders won the majority of pledged delegates... but that's not going to happen.

The bottom line is we know the outcome of the first ballot which makes this uncontested.

[tom-servo]

69. "Pledged to oneself" is the same as not-pledged...

...and attempts to predict events that aren't actually predictable are usually either attempts to the influence the desired outcome of the event or convince oneself of the desired outcome.

[DCBob]

70. They are the same as pledged delegates as it pertains to this issue.

We know how they plan to vote on the first ballot.

[silvershadow]

77. So this is where the elites get to pick. This is why Americans don't bother to vote...they

know the fix is in.

[DCBob]

80. Your link is to a brokered convention.

You keep repeating wrong information. You seem confused.

[tom-servo]

81. It explains the difference between a brokered and a contested convention...

[DCBob]

83. Actually it doesn't... it just mentions a contested convention but doesn't define it.

The definition below is for a brokered convention..

In the United States' politics, a brokered convention, closely related to but not quite the same as a contested convention, either of which is sometimes referred to as an open convention, is a situation in which no single candidate has secured a majority of overall delegates (whether those selected by primary elections and caucuses, state conventions, or superdelegates), after the first vote for a political party's presidential candidate at its national nominating convention.

[DesertRat]

75. k&r