2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum“The economy is rigged. The banking system is rigged... you haven't had an effective wage increase"
The economy is rigged. The banking system is rigged. There's a lot of things that are rigged in this world of ours, and that's why a lot of you haven't had an effective wage increase in 20 years, folks. And we're going to change it. We're going to change it. We're going to change it fast.This is not a Sanders' quote -- this is a quote from Trump.
Hillary needs to take steps to make her campaign more responsive to the needs of those seeking economic fairness NOW or Trump WILL TAKE THOSE VOTES just like Reagan took those votes from Jimmy Carter.
I'm not talking about phony campaign rhetoric and empty promises that everyone sees through. That will not carry the day.
If she wants to win the nomination and the general election,
* Hillary needs to enlist Sanders' help (or Elizabeth Warren's help if she hasn't yet come to terms with the fact that she's lost about 45% of the party to the Sanders-Warren-FDR wing of FDR's party) in crafting the platform to embrace economic populism.
* Hillary needs to kick the lobbyists and payday-loan vultures out of the DNC and, if she can't bring herself to wield the axe, she ought to enlist Sanders' help in the process.
* Hillary needs to reform the Democratic Party rules literally designed to "protect" the nomination process from the grassroots Democrats by installing a bunch of lobbyists and other "superdelegates" to make the Democratic party less democratic, and if she does not want to be the person who returns the power from the lobbyists to the grassroots voters, she ought to enlist Sanders' help.
Hillary must not wait to the convention to re-tool.
Hillary is playing chess and Trump is playing checkers, and it has not yet been decided whether this is a chess match or a game of checkers.
Those independents, millennial Democrats, and economically downtrodden voters of all parties will be deciding whether the game is checkers or chess, and if Hillary cannot retool to increase her appeal beyond conservative and middle-aged-and-older Democrats, it won't matter if she wins the nomination and skates past the FBI investigation and numerous civil FOIA lawsuits.

JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Good luck with your demands.
Mika
(17,751 posts)
Human101948
(3,457 posts)People are desperate for some sign that they are not going to get the short end of the stick again in this election. They know that they have beveen strung along on promises of prosperity that never materialize whether a Republican or a Democrat is in the White House. Even the moderately aware voters know they've been sold a bill of goods and they are looking for someone who promises to help them.
Ignore it now and be sorry later.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Human101948
(3,457 posts)Fat, dumb and stupid.
lordy. be nice.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)That was out of line.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)juries tend to take these comments literally.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)just a guess.
Mika
(17,751 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)that demographic can afford to be arrogant.
markbark
(1,598 posts)
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)or we can nominate someone else or we can lose. Those are your three options.
Even if you don't like Sanders, you have to see that Sanders' success rests partly on his shoulders (he's run a nearly perfect campaign) and is partly a symptom of Hillary's flaws. No candidate can win the general election with 55% of the Democrats, 20% of the independents, and none of the Republicans. If Hillary wants to win the nomination and the general election, she damn well better make plans to improve her support and enthusiasm among the Sanders Democrats, the independents, and potential crossover Republicans. There is not a path to victory without these constituencies.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)the plight of us the people.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)not much different than it did THIRTY FUCKING YEARS AGO.
round here the saying goes:
everything go up BUT a paycheck.
BERNIE: BECAUSE FUCK THIS SHIT !!!!
DCBob
(24,689 posts)
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)Just admit it... its obvious.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)The arrogance here is believing that Hillary is the perfect candidate who does not need to face realities during the campaign.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I remember my dad once said "if it hadn't been for Jimmy Carter, I would have been a Democrat." He responded to the racism and "free stuff" argument when he felt the recession. Unfortunately, he didn't blame Reagan later- just the people who wanted free stuff.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I honestly don't understand what she's doing courting Romney's voters with a 47% mentality at the expense of people who are very reasonably angry. A frightening scenario is that they will see little difference between the 2, at worst they will see Trump as a better choice.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)heard:
vote your heart in the primary but, vote your wallet in the general.
she will try to annihilate Bernie with his tax plan.
it may already be too late.
thanks for nothing press corp.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)He was speaking to some people and made a big production out of pulling out a $ bill and telling people he wanted to give it back to them. He came across as a populist and it worked.
So true, with biased news media she really has gotten a pass for dumb mistakes and received inflated reviews.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Entertainment is so conflict and anger driven. I think it can be traced from Geraldo to Morton Downey Jr. > Rush Limbaugh and other RW radio > Fox > the current state of all the cabale news stations. The format is to have people with competing argue. It drives up ratings and an election yr. is 24 hr. primetime for them. It's taking the WWF model to an even lower level.
I think the news media really pushed the Sanders vs. Clinton competition and ignored O'Malley because he was less contentious.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)extensively... Boy, are you in for a rude awakening. If she is the Nominee, Trump will run to her Left on multiple issues, and we will lose. If people don't want President Trump, they need to vote Bernie.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)to fix.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Ever. Its all rightward motion from here.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)The reason so many right-wing nutjobs are so upset about Trump is because he is going to re-define the party.
Trump will run to Hillary's right on some issues (guns, immigration, terrorism) and will run to the left of Hillary on other issues (trade agreements, Wall Street regulation, overseas military bases).
By running on a non-ideological platform (i.e., not traditionally or uniformly leftist nor traditionally or uniformly right-wing), Trump will re-define the distinction between Hillary and himself along populist lines.
If Trump occupies the populist role, that leaves the elitist role for Hillary. If she does not define herself into a populist role, Trump will define her as an elitist. If we have learned nothing else during the Republican primary, we should have learned that Trump has a knack for defining his opponent in a devastating way. Hillary is about to be defined by Trump unless she takes steps immediately to stop that from happening.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)the devil they DON'T know is better than the devil they DO know.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)so at least Trump recognizes the economy is broken for people like me while she keeps talking about this wonderful economic recovery that her friends on Wall Street are enjoying."
Trump is full of shit, but his campaign is smart enough to address the issue. Hillary needs to address the issue, too, or Trump will brand this issue as "Main Street vs. Wall Street" and that WILL NOT PLAY OUT WELL.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)I agree with you on all counts. Though Im not so confident about her ability to stop Trump from defining her regardless of what she does. The Clintons ARE the establishment. Theres no un-ringing that bell.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)This is all complete bullshit.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)She's a co-worker and I would guess a "natural Democrat" (poor working class in a very Democratic community). I was quite surprised when she told me she supports Trump. But I was flabbergasted when she told me that she would love a Trump/Sanders ticket.
Unpacking this strange opinion, I think Sanders has a good shot at her vote (vs Trump) because Sanders is so obviously better for workers when you get to know him and his policies. And SOMETHING Sanders said, or she heard about Sanders, got through to her, as to wanting him as VP.
Sanders has very broad appeal, as is reflected in the numerous polls over many months showing that Sanders beats Trump by TWICE the margins that Clinton does. In recent polls, she even LOSES to Trump in one poll (Rasmussen). Here are the recent polls:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html
Clinton does NOT have a safe margin in these recent polls. Her average against Trump is only +6.5%. Sanders' average against Trump is a whopping +13.4 %. He will demolish Trump. And Clinton could lose, especially with her high negatives on trustworthiness and favorability.
The Democratic Party has been trapped (by its own machinations and Clinton's) into a narrow demographic (long time Democrats) for choosing the nominee. Independents now dominate the electorate (40+%!). THEY decide who will be president. And Clinton has virtually no appeal to independents, nor to new Democrats and young voters. There are many progressives in the "independents party" who are sick to death of Clintonism. They are ex-Democrats. She can't bring them back. Sanders can.