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Fri May 6, 2016, 10:56 AM

 

If I lived in a swing state, I'd absolutely feel it was my duty to vote for Hillary

I'm not telling anyone else what they should do with their vote and I'm not saying I will or won't vote for her, but Trump really is that bad. At a minimum, basic sanity is a fundamental job requirement. She is. He isn't.

My expectations for a Hillary presidency couldn't be lower, but the prospect of trump, and those in his wake, in the White House, is inconceivable.

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Reply If I lived in a swing state, I'd absolutely feel it was my duty to vote for Hillary (Original post)
cali May 2016 OP
silvershadow May 2016 #1
cali May 2016 #2
silvershadow May 2016 #4
HooptieWagon May 2016 #5
salinsky May 2016 #28
HooptieWagon May 2016 #34
salinsky May 2016 #36
Kittycat May 2016 #58
villager May 2016 #3
Arugula Latte May 2016 #11
villager May 2016 #25
arcane1 May 2016 #38
villager May 2016 #41
m-lekktor May 2016 #54
HooptieWagon May 2016 #6
hack89 May 2016 #45
HooptieWagon May 2016 #47
bettyellen May 2016 #48
HooptieWagon May 2016 #52
bettyellen May 2016 #55
HooptieWagon May 2016 #56
bettyellen May 2016 #64
HooptieWagon May 2016 #66
bettyellen May 2016 #73
Nye Bevan May 2016 #7
cali May 2016 #9
Nye Bevan May 2016 #15
cali May 2016 #19
VulgarPoet May 2016 #42
democrattotheend May 2016 #86
HooptieWagon May 2016 #12
emulatorloo May 2016 #27
PufPuf23 May 2016 #75
Smarmie Doofus May 2016 #8
cali May 2016 #10
HooptieWagon May 2016 #18
snowy owl May 2016 #13
amborin May 2016 #14
cali May 2016 #20
amborin May 2016 #22
emulatorloo May 2016 #29
cali May 2016 #30
LaurenG May 2016 #68
jeepers May 2016 #16
kiva May 2016 #17
SheenaR May 2016 #21
emulatorloo May 2016 #31
SheenaR May 2016 #37
blm May 2016 #32
HockeyMom May 2016 #71
cali May 2016 #33
yourpaljoey May 2016 #60
seabeyond May 2016 #23
amborin May 2016 #24
delrem May 2016 #26
blm May 2016 #35
delrem May 2016 #96
blm May 2016 #104
VulgarPoet May 2016 #39
djean111 May 2016 #40
Dems to Win May 2016 #67
BernieforPres2016 May 2016 #43
cali May 2016 #46
MisterP May 2016 #44
seabeyond May 2016 #89
leftofcool May 2016 #97
Vote2016 May 2016 #49
cali May 2016 #53
Bettie May 2016 #50
Purveyor May 2016 #51
Barack_America May 2016 #59
Buddyblazon May 2016 #57
nolawarlock May 2016 #61
seaglass May 2016 #62
pampango May 2016 #63
moriah May 2016 #70
democrattotheend May 2016 #87
CincyDem May 2016 #101
Dems to Win May 2016 #65
moriah May 2016 #69
Dems to Win May 2016 #76
moriah May 2016 #78
Dems to Win May 2016 #80
moriah May 2016 #81
MineralMan May 2016 #72
cali May 2016 #74
Attorney in Texas May 2016 #77
SwampG8r May 2016 #102
Rass May 2016 #79
Cobalt Violet May 2016 #82
HereSince1628 May 2016 #83
democrattotheend May 2016 #84
cali May 2016 #85
sadoldgirl May 2016 #88
democrattotheend May 2016 #90
Name removed May 2016 #91
PowerToThePeople May 2016 #92
JPnoodleman May 2016 #93
Live and Learn May 2016 #94
frustrated_lefty May 2016 #95
JustABozoOnThisBus May 2016 #98
bigwillq May 2016 #99
CobaltBlue May 2016 #100
Purveyor May 2016 #103

Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:01 AM

1. I don't. She knows what the risks are. The Charade has gone on long enough. nt

 

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Response to silvershadow (Reply #1)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:03 AM

2. What charade exactly?

 

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Response to cali (Reply #2)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:06 AM

4. Of being the presumptuous front runner. nt

 

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Response to cali (Reply #2)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:10 AM

5. Hillary to Bush donors:"I share your values".

 

She's a full-on neocon. I'm not seeing that as one iota better than Trump.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #5)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:41 AM

28. Then you are blind ... nt

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Response to salinsky (Reply #28)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:51 AM

34. Her words.

 

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #34)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:55 AM

36. We are talking about Trump here ...

... you can pick any of his words ... ANY of them.

To say that Hillary is not one iota better is completely unmoored from reality.

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Response to salinsky (Reply #36)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:53 PM

58. So what? We are talking about her, not him. There's no question that a person in their right mind

would not vote for Trump. It's still up in the air where many voters stand with Hillary. This is the place the DNC has put many people in, and it's shameful on their part. And Cali, I'm incredibly disappointed seeing you post something like this, when Hillary has made little to no effort to reach out to nearly 45% of the Democratic Base, or the Liberal/Progressive Independents that haven't had a chance to vote in the primaries for any number of reasons (including that their states haven't voted, and because they were either disenfranchised through purging, or didn't have open primary states).

If Hillary wants those votes, it's incumbent upon her to go out and earn them. No candidate EVER should take their base for granted, and assume they will fall in line simply for party alignment. Particularly when that candidate is as polarizing as Hillary is, or when she brings such high unfavorables to the table.

I look forward to seeing the returns in WV, KY, OR, CA and other areas as they roll in. More so, I look forward to seeing how the convention unfolds. Hillary is NOT the nominee as of this moment, and until then - continued discussion of it only pisses people off that don't support her for many legitimate reasons - starting with the fact that she's running right, before she's even bothered to short up her base on the left. #ThirdWay #goldwatergirl

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:03 AM

3. Pretty miuch agreed. I'm in a deep blue non-swing state, myself

 

...so often have the luxury of voting to the left of the Dems in Presidential contests (one could agrue, with the electors already in the bag, it might be "throwing away my vote" to do otherwise....)

Obviously swing-state voting is an entirely different calculation.

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Response to villager (Reply #3)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:18 AM

11. Same here. Although...

 

I'm in Oregon. There is little love for Hillary here. Very little. So I'm wondering if all the other Bernie supporters like myself are going to vote for Jill Stein because they think "Eh, Oregon's a blue state; I don't have to worry about us going for Trump." Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants if Oregon wound up voting for Trump because of all the progressive anti-Hillary protest votes?

I'll see what the polls are saying in late October. I just don't know if I can make myself fill in the bubble next to Hillary's name, though.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #11)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:37 AM

25. "I'll see what the polls are saying in late October"

 

Exactly.

And what levels of fascinating scandal and toxic mud will be unearthed by, and hurled at, each respective candidate!

I always knew the U.S. would likely eventually dissolve during my own years here (given all that was being unaddressed). Who knew we'd have such Romanesque theater while it happened!?

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Response to villager (Reply #3)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:56 AM

38. It's those of us in blue states who are NEEDED to break the 2-party gridlock.

 

It won't happen in swing states. It's up to us.

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #38)

Fri May 6, 2016, 12:21 PM

41. Also true. "Shock levels" of support for alternatives... nt

 

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Response to villager (Reply #3)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:28 PM

54. yup, same for me. nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:14 AM

6. Hillary has made it quite clear she doesn't want my vote.

 

I'm in a swing state. Not voting for Trump of course, but Hillary doesn't have my vote either.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #6)

Fri May 6, 2016, 12:53 PM

45. Not everyone will suffer in a Trump presidency

You appear to be one of the lucky ones

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Response to hack89 (Reply #45)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:08 PM

47. People worried about Trump should have voted for Sanders.

 

If Clinton can't get votes from Sanders supporters, she and her supporters are to blame for their stubborn refusal to meet Sanders supporters even part way. Given the ultimatum "our way or the highway" we're all too happy to vote with our feet.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #47)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:12 PM

48. So, other should not vote their conscience- just you? That's funny.

 

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #48)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:26 PM

52. Vote your conscience, and we'll vote ours.

 

But a coalition is a quid pro quo on both sides.
If you vote for Sanders, you get a strong record on social issues equal or better than Clintons. We get economic and foreign policies we're looking for.
Demanding we vote for Clinton offers us nothing. She's no better than Sanders on social issues, and we find her economic and foreign policies completely unacceptable.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #52)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:34 PM

55. No where equal to Clintons on social issues. Cosigning others work instead of doing the work? No.

 

Sanders has benefited with his top demographics merely for staying out of the fray. He has -quite admittedly- made them a low priority, and it has nipped him on the ass. He still has much to learn, and it is good he realized this during the campaign, but it was kind of late. We are the base.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #55)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:41 PM

56. That's laughably delusional.

 

Clinton was campaigning for a segregationist when Sanders was being arrested for protesting segregation. Sanders was supporting gay rights 20 years prior to Clinton supporting DADT and DOMA. Sanders isn't afraid to lead, Clinton is content to wait until public opinion changes, and follows behind. She still hasn't 'evolved' on several issues.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #56)

Fri May 6, 2016, 02:21 PM

64. You negate 25 years of hard work because of her teenage years? DADT improved the lives of

 

gays in the military immeasurably. Learn your history. It has always taken steps, and SBS does not even know what they are.

He has high principles because he is unaware of the real struggles we have had with a conservative congress, because it has never been his fight. Hillary has been fighting that conservative congress for women, and you guys are not even aware of it. Pretending SBS has done a single thing except give soundbites is bullshit, and you ought to be ashamed.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #64)

Fri May 6, 2016, 02:38 PM

66. Sorry. Incrementalism isn't leadership.

 

It's a begrudging small concession to fait accompli.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #66)

Fri May 6, 2016, 03:14 PM

73. It is actually how civil rights have come to be extended in this nation. It has taken a generation

 

of fighting to get many rights for LGBT, as it has for women and POC. We are still fighting for equal rights after all these years.

The system, having three branches is designed to evolve with incremental change. What SBS asks for is basically impossible with what we have now. He would be the lamest duck from day one.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:14 AM

7. You can expect a Hillary presidency to be essentially a continuation of the Obama presidency.

If you hated the Obama presidency, you will probably hate the Hillary presidency.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #7)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:17 AM

9. No, I really can't. Not on foreign policy, not on tone

 

Not on leadership.

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Response to cali (Reply #9)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:22 AM

15. What if there are fewer drone strikes and fewer US troops in the Middle East,

and she actually manages to close Guantanamo?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #15)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:27 AM

19. I'd be shocked. Not so much by the latter

 

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #15)

Fri May 6, 2016, 12:26 PM

42. I'd be waiting to wake up and for the other shoe to drop.

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Response to cali (Reply #9)

Fri May 6, 2016, 07:02 PM

86. I agree

Domestically, she and Obama have pretty similar views, but she is way more hawkish and less reserved than Obama about intervening in other countries. I am not always opposed to intervention (I believe it is justified to stop genocide or other serious human rights abuses) but I respect the President's caution and commitment to not going in somewhere unless we have a plan to get out, and I don't think she has the same level of restraint.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #7)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:18 AM

12. No. It'll be worse.

 

Obama has described himself as a Reagan era Republican. Clinton is aligning herself with W. Even associating with noted neocons and telling Bush donor crowd "I share your values". No thanks.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #12)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:39 AM

27. Obama did no such thing

Willful misrepresentation of quotes is still misrepresentation

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #7)

Fri May 6, 2016, 03:37 PM

75. Hillary Clinton is not POTUS Obama in skill nor character.

That said POTUS Obama disappointed me as I am an anti-war liberal and POTUS Obama is a neo-liberal as is Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton is more a war hawk than POTUS Obama, has closer ties to the financial industry, and is less genuine as to social and economic justice.

Both are fair at best regards environmental issues.

Hillary Clinton has not and never will enjoy the trust and faith given POTUS Obama domestically and internationally.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:16 AM

8. I REALLY do NOT Trust Clinton on Foreign Policy.

 

The likelihood of her initiating a war against Iran... or some other real and./or imagined enemy... is, imo, very high.

Esp if she's struggling economically or w. some as yet to be uncovered domestic "crisis"... and wishes to change the topic. Or simply proves to be unpopular but .... like GWB... wants a second term.

In Iran's case we are talking about millions dead, orphaned, displaced. A global catastrophe on top of the global catastrophe playing out right now as a consequence of the implementation of a Clintonian foreign policy and well-established world view.

By contrast..... we simply don't know enough about how Trump is likely to direct US foreign policy.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #8)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:17 AM

10. He isn't mentally stable.

 

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #8)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:23 AM

18. There's currently several countries between Afganistan and Libya were not at war with.

 

Clinton is on a mission to address that 'business opportunity'. Can we afford Clintons wars?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:19 AM

13. Of course you would. So what?

If I lived in a swing state, I'd absolutely feel it was my duty to vote for Bernie.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:22 AM

14. Don't feel that way! Hillary has ALREADY voted for Border Wall; She is a war hawk, NeoCons love her

Her record on regime change and anti-democracy bloodshed in Honduras and Colombia is horrific.

The SCOTUS argument doesn't work, either. She would most likely choose a centrist, at best. There is a reason why the Koch brothers, Rupert Murdoch, George Will, and many other Republicans endorse her.

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Response to amborin (Reply #14)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:28 AM

20. She's sane. He is not.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #20)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:30 AM

22. She has terrible judgment that has harmed millions

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Response to amborin (Reply #22)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:42 AM

29. He is an insane. She is not.

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Response to amborin (Reply #22)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:43 AM

30. Yes. And she's still sane, and he's still not

 

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Response to cali (Reply #20)


Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:22 AM

16. Swing stater

I have been voting against the DNC since 96 . It is about defeating the machine not Hillary or Bill and until it is defeated we will not have either a voice or a democracy.

I am not afraid of Trump, and the LOE attempt to steer my vote will only drive me to seek an alternative

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:22 AM

17. I do, and I won't.

That's what "none of the above" on the ballot is for.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:30 AM

21. You dont think

that most of his campaign has been for show? I for one think he knows exactly what he is doing. I think he is a liberal in Red clothing. I think he is sane and is preying on American stupidity and their proclivity for racist/sexist behavior.

I don't support it, nor condone it. But I think it's all for show and a Trump presidency would look nothing like his campaign.

Still don't want him to win. I just see it differently.

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Response to SheenaR (Reply #21)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:45 AM

31. He encourages violence at his rallies. He was a key promoter of Birtherism and calls for Obama's

college transcripts to "prove" Obama was stupid. I could go one and on. He is not a liberal. He's a demagogue.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #31)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:56 AM

37. Very valid points. As are the ones below... Thanks.. n/t

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Response to SheenaR (Reply #21)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:47 AM

32. As someone who HAS spent time in Trump's circle, he really IS dangerously narcissistic.

And now he has an army of RW terrorists hanging on his every word.

Y'know, Assad in Syria used to be a level-headed guy seen as a truly civil being, until he became president and Arab Spring triggered the paranoid strongman the world is dealing with today.

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Response to blm (Reply #32)

Fri May 6, 2016, 03:05 PM

71. Having only talked to Trump for about 20 minutes as a young woman

 

about 40 years ago, yes, he is absolutely a narcissistic. "I can do", I will call", "Nobody will refuse me". I, I, I, I. Do not dare tell him NO. Yes, he is a Sexist. Yes, he is a Racist. ONLY HIS "kind" (used a slang term for NY Puerto Ricans) will live his buildings. He did not talk about Gays, but if they had $$$$, I don't think that would bother him. Religion would not enter into his equation either unless it was a means to end. Hearing what he said, and later took back, about Abortion had me rolling on the floor with laughter. Money and POWER talks. I am great and people, especially women, should bow down to ME, ME, ME. He is also an Egotistical Maniac. Only way to get rid of him, is to give him a big FU, which can be done. It has to be extremely blunt with him or he will not hear it. Donald Trump does not care about anyone but Donald Trump. That was my impression of him as a young woman.

Donald Trump is not the kind of man I want to be my President. Yes, I think the man has a Mental Health issue problem.

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Response to SheenaR (Reply #21)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:47 AM

33. I don't think he's mentally stable.

 

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Response to SheenaR (Reply #21)

Fri May 6, 2016, 02:05 PM

60. You are quite possibly correct

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:30 AM

23. Im in a very red state; I would still feel a responsibility to vote Sanders. I have no expectation

 

for Sanders to accomplish anything, further, I feel he will put us at harm, and maybe not come thru on my biggest issue, but still, I would vote so my vote raises his popular vote number. I feel it is that important.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #23)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:31 AM

24. Kudos to you!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:38 AM

26. The Dem primary is continuing. Sanders has NOT conceded,

and the coming states look to possibly be very nice wins - and hopefully game changing wins.

Your recent OPs imply that the primary is over and Hillary has won, and as such are no different than any other taunting Hillary Clinton coronation OPs.

Why do you choose NOW to post a string of these OPs - right before several very critical primary votes?

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Response to delrem (Reply #26)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:51 AM

35. From someone who has butted heads with cali for over a decade, it's simple….

she is more realist than loyalist. Always has been.

I was proud to vote for Sanders in NC and when the math proved insurmountable the Dem activist in me focuses like a laser on GOTV - I have to - my state is ground zero for regressive measures taken by GOP who is fully in control of this Dem-leaning state.

There are no positive benefits from holding yourself for ransom to be found here in NC.

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Response to blm (Reply #35)

Sat May 7, 2016, 04:47 AM

96. Well, I don't understand it. What do you mean by "realist" and "loyalist"?

I think the Dem primary is just going into a phase that strongly favors Sen. Sanders' ideas, where he can win big.
I think those ideas need promoting so the win will be bigger.

I don't give a shit about the reasons why a Dem would vote for Hillary in this primary.
Conceding absolutely to Hillary for the GE isn't an issue, and I don't give a shit about the reasons "mathematics, baby - she'll win by mathematics and then it's absolute Hillary. So there's no need to listen to the left. None at all." kI don't give a shit for that kind of reasoning.

"Realism" is what you make it, in politics, and Sanders will make a better reality than Clinton.

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Response to delrem (Reply #96)

Sat May 7, 2016, 01:27 PM

104. Suit yourself - I was just offering insight into cali.

I wasn't telling YOU to get out of a trench.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 12:03 PM

39. Thank the Goddess I'm not. nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 12:16 PM

40. I am not sure that overweening ambition has not crept in and overlaid a little sanity for Hillary.

 

Her reaction to the Iraq question - loud laughter, yeah, some choices are hard!, read my book! - was bizarre.

And she has made so very many bad choices, and it looks like EVERYTHING she does is done for a personal political purpose or money. EVERYTHING. She seems to get very angry at being questioned, disagreed with, interrupted, or crossed. She is reaching out to Job Bush's backers, because, after all, she has the same values. She lies. That Bosnian sniper fire thing was downright creepy. I don't really even believe she is okay with gay marriage. I don't.

And she vacillates on everything, how she says she stands on something seems to always be in service to pandering for money or votes. Bill seems odd to me, and the thought of the both of them ardently pursuing trade deals is unsettling. Not to mention her fondness for war. Means-testing and redistributing Social Security instead of raising the cap, and knowing that Bill and Newt were on the way to privatizing Social Security? Just no.

Both candidates are frightening to me.

My grandson and his millennial friends? Know that Hillary does not mean well for them on issues that really affect them - college costs, wars, job loss, they don't think she really cares about climate change, and they all agree it would be fine to pay extra taxes for Single payer, and they all have insurance that they can't really afford to use.

So it is not as simple as saying Trump is crazy and Hillary is perfectly sane and means well. That is why we all support Bernie.
I did support Hillary in 2008 - but now I am aware of just what she actually stands for, and it looks like she mostly stands for Hillary for president, and would be another Maggie Thatcher.

All of this is on the DNC's and Hillary's heads. They deliberately stacked the deck. It is arrogant of the DNC to blandly say oh, the people who have worked for the DNC for so long have the absolute RIGHT to pick a politician who will affect EVERYONE'S life, so just STFU and vote for Hillary.

This is not a rant, this is just how I very calmly feel.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #40)

Fri May 6, 2016, 02:40 PM

67. "Both candidates are frightening to me. "

 

I agree wholeheartedly.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 12:48 PM

43. Thanks for not telling us what we should do with our votes

As if anybody gives a damn.

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Response to BernieforPres2016 (Reply #43)

Fri May 6, 2016, 12:56 PM

46. You are very.welcome!

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 12:51 PM

44. as for sanity, she's racking up the microstrokes as we speak: her speeches are gibberish

and sanity's a relative matter, especially if you're a hawk who sees war as a natural state function rather than a decision to be made, and already has Iran on the list

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Response to MisterP (Reply #44)

Fri May 6, 2016, 07:55 PM

89. Yet..., Clinton kicked Sanders ass. Lol.

 

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Response to MisterP (Reply #44)

Sat May 7, 2016, 06:46 AM

97. Over 3 million popular votes and 300 delegates ahead. Enough said!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:14 PM

49. I'm not making any firm decision unti I see a final delegate count, a running mate, a platform,

 

party rules changes, DWS role at the convention, Hillary's role at the convention, Sanders' role at the convention, etc.

I'm leaning toward voting Sanders (as nominee or as write in) but I'm open minded on the issue.

If I lived in Ohio or Florida, I would probably lean toward the nominee regardless of who wins.

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Response to Vote2016 (Reply #49)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:27 PM

53. I'll echo you. I live in Vermont.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:24 PM

50. I'm in a swing state

and I have accepted that I'll have to vote for Clinton, no matter how much it feels like destroying my kids' future.

Two of them are old enough to be ground up in her hunger for war.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:25 PM

51. Michigan here. No comment at this time. eom

 

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #51)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:56 PM

59. Michigan as well. She's not getting my vote unless I see those transcripts.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:46 PM

57. Colorado here...

 

I'm writing in Bernie.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 02:12 PM

61. This is sensible.

I'm sure your compatriots will fricassee you even more for saying it, but Trump is so, so terrible that I cannot imagine doing anything that would help him take the presidency.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 02:12 PM

62. Luckily if Bernie was the nominee I live in MA so I would be safe not voting for him. Of course

most of the time I'm not an asshole so I'd vote for him anyway.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 02:14 PM

63. As an Ohioan, I agree. I sometimes wish I lived in a non-'swing' state so

that I could vote for the Green Party or something like that to boost their vote totals and make them more viable in the long run. I don't blame Democrats in deep blue or deep red states who do that. I think it serves a useful purpose though winning by big popular vote totals gives a president a certain amount of 'political capital' as well.

Alas, if I don't vote for Hillary (assuming she is the Democratic nominee) and Trump wins a close contest in Ohio and narrowly wins in the electoral college, I would not be very proud of myself. I could always tell myself, "Hey. It's only one vote. He would have won anyway." Perhaps true, but I knew ahead of the vote what the consequences of a Trump presidency to our country and the world would be and I did nothing to prevent it. I value my vote whether anyone else does or not.

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Response to pampango (Reply #63)

Fri May 6, 2016, 03:04 PM

70. Arkansas's not expected to be in play, but...

Cruz won the primary here and this was Bill's home state. I have heard several Evangelicals say they may not vote at all but just stay at home, and one who, as he was posting about casting his Cruz vote in the Primary, said he would need a lot of alcohol after but he would vote for Hillary over Trump.

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Response to pampango (Reply #63)

Fri May 6, 2016, 07:05 PM

87. I'll trade you - I want to live in a swing state!

I wish my vote counted! It was so nice to get to canvass right in my own neighborhood during the primary.

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Response to pampango (Reply #63)

Sat May 7, 2016, 08:16 AM

101. Well said.



Great comment on the idea of personal accountability and the value of one vote. I luv me some Bernie and I will be voting for the Democratic nominee be it Bernie, HRC or a ham sandwich - each of which would be orders of magnitude better than Trump.

I'm not a huge fan of HRC and there are some parts of her legacy that disappoint me. At the same time, there are parts of where she's heading that I do like, particularly her gender equality positions and how those will likely play out in multiple Supreme Court appointments throughout the term.

Relative to Bernie, I'd choose Bernie. I had that choice on March 15 and I did.

Relative to Trump, I choose HRC. In November, I'm not going to pine for the good ole days when Bernie was on the ballot...I'm going to vote the ballot I have with the goal of making a difference.

Living in Ohio makes that pragmatism important. I don't have the luxury of teaching the DNC a much needed lesson by voting Green or staying home in protest. In a state that swings as close as Ohio, protest votes aren't an academic exercise - they have consequences.

As you said, I'm only one vote but if I were to stay home (or vote for Stein) and Trump were to win the WH because of Ohio...I would blame myself for life as the vote that f*ed the entire country.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 02:34 PM

65. If Trump's so evil, why were the Clintons at his wedding?

 

Anything bad you can say about Trump leads me to the question: Why are the Clintons buddies with the next Mussolini?



Even if I agree to vote by the 'lesser of two evils' philosophy, it is not at all clear to me who is the lesser evil. Trump will ban all Muslims from entering the US, Hillary will take us to war with Iran. Which is the lesser evil?

Trump has called the Saudis fat cows and said we shouldn't be defending them. Hillary's foundation has accepted millions from the Saudis, her foreign policy values are Bush values, so we can expect her to continue to kow-tow to the most misogynistic, cruel regime on the planet. Which is the lesser evil?

Yes, Trump is a loudmouth blowhard clown who insults minorities and women. Hillary is oh-so sophisticated, articulate, and well-spoken. She'll have a magnificent speech to deliver as she sells us out by signing the TPP. Trump will be an asshole 50 times a day as he drops the TPP in the garbage can. Which is the lesser evil?

I'm in a safe blue state, so my vote doesn't matter. But if I lived in a swing state, I'd be very hard pressed to choose which is the lesser evil between Trump and Clinton.

I'm still hoping it doesn't come to that. I've not yet voted in the primary, and will vote for Sanders when it is my turn.

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Response to Dems to Win (Reply #65)

Fri May 6, 2016, 02:49 PM

69. One regime proposes criminal penalties for women who abort...

... which means making up to 15% of pregnancies potentially subject to criminal investigation, as that's how many women who miscarry.

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Response to moriah (Reply #69)

Fri May 6, 2016, 03:48 PM

76. For single-issue abortion rights voters, you've made the case.

 

I care about abortion rights, and I also care about the lives of women like Berta Caceres in Honduras. The list of issues important to me is as long as my arm. On some of them, Hillary comes up way short and Trump is the guy who makes sense. Trade and the Iraq War are two big ones.

The choice would be easier if it was Clinton vs. Cruz. That guy never said a single word I agreed with.

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Response to Dems to Win (Reply #76)

Fri May 6, 2016, 05:02 PM

78. Even for thinking people who shouldn't want a government small enough...

... to fit in every woman's uterus and put potentially 700,000 grieving women who never sought an abortion each year at risk of unjust criminal prosecution...

That should make the case.

(ETA: 4 million live birghs each year, 15% of unaborted pregnancies end in miscarriage = a shitton of their own wives potentially investigated.)

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Response to moriah (Reply #78)

Fri May 6, 2016, 05:24 PM

80. I can and do think about more than one issue.

 

I'm stubborn that way.

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Response to Dems to Win (Reply #80)

Fri May 6, 2016, 06:05 PM

81. It's not just an abortion issue, is what I was getting at.

Investigating miscarriages ... nuh-huh, if enough people regardless on their views of abortion actually understood what was being propoed there.

However, there's other things too. After recent comments from Trump regarding his plan to essentially bankrupt our country (explaining how he was going to deliver his earlier tax plan -- increased deficit spending), it won't be Wall St bribing Clinton by donating or endorsing her, except to save US from an actual default on its debts.

Trump not only wants to build a wall, discriminate against Muslims, but won't take nukes off the table (and while links might be to funny commentary, ever seen Threads?) The US's standard position was they would never use nukes against a non-nuclear country (leaving it on Israel if any nuclear device is going off in the ME, who we all know have nukes but refuses to admit it). The US doesn't need to be pushing nukes, we need to be trying to disarm and encourage other countries to do so.

Trump is so off the rails, on so many subjects, that in this case the lesser of two evils is clear.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 03:07 PM

72. I'm so glad you're back, cali.

I would never have known that Vermont was a lock for Democrats without your posts.

So, you won't have to vote for the hated Hillary and Trump will still lose. Cool, huh?

Great to see you posting again!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #72)

Fri May 6, 2016, 03:17 PM

74. You're slipping.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 03:53 PM

77. Democrats in Ohio and Florida need to pinch their noses so the rest of us can vote our conscience!

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #77)

Sat May 7, 2016, 08:16 AM

102. I live in florida and

If i show up.at the polls to vote for hrc they would have to turn me away
You arent alllwed to.vote here if you are that drunk

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 05:09 PM

79. Free Trade sucks

 

I would vote for Hillary if only she wasn't so dishonest and crooked. Then there is the free trade issue. She has no problem with encouraging companies to outsource jobs overseas. Unfortunately I am an American tech worker that is affected by the Clinton free trade policies. Struggling economically in life really sucks especially when it is due to corporate greed. Trump is an asshole, sexist and racist but at least he claims that he will fight against free trade. As a progressive Hispanic, I can't vote for him in good conscience.

Trump and Hillary are both shitty choices. I will sit this one out rather than shoot myself in the foot with either one. Bernie or bust.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 06:06 PM

82. Glad to live in a non swing state.

I won't say who I will vote for. The primary is still going on.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 06:50 PM

83. Trump can't function without the senate... I get to vote for Feingold, and thereby claim privilege

to do what I always do... vote my conscience.



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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 06:59 PM

84. I feel the exact same way

From time to time I consider casting a protest vote in the general election, but only because I live in New York. If I lived in a swing state I wouldn't even consider it.

Even if I cast a protest vote I will still volunteer for Hillary if she is the nominee. Stopping Trump is too important, plus I don't hate Hillary and even though she wasn't my first choice, there is enough to make me happy about voting for her in November if Bernie isn't the nominee.

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Response to democrattotheend (Reply #84)

Fri May 6, 2016, 07:02 PM

85. No, I don't think we feel the same way.

 

I think she's a dangerous neocon with poor judgment.

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Response to cali (Reply #85)

Fri May 6, 2016, 07:28 PM

88. I don't consider Trump insane at all.

He has proven himself as a master manipulator,
he is very shrewd and knew exactly what to do
to make that party intolerable, and I believe that
this was his plan.

He is far more liberal than his performances are
designed to show. Why else did B. Clinton encourage him
to run?

The problem he has now is to keep his position without
driving some sane repugs nuts. He knows that he can
"appear" to take his insults back, but won't be believed.

No, he is quite sane, imo, but his 10M voters are not.

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Response to cali (Reply #85)

Fri May 6, 2016, 10:57 PM

90. Sorry, I meant about the swing state/non-swing state thing

That we wouldn't hesitate to vote for her if we lived in swing states, but feel free to cast a protest vote since we don't. I am not sure yet if I am going to vote for her or not, but like you said, if I lived in a swing state there would be no question.

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Response to cali (Original post)


Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:02 PM

92. Not me.

 

Geography does not determine how I vote.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:10 PM

93. She is the cleanest soiled shirt in the Hamper....

I see no compelling reason to wear a shirt covered in blood just because another shirt also has blood AND feces on it.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:25 PM

94. Sanity? She claimed she was under sniper fire, among other wierd statements.

Doesn't seem that sane to me.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 01:38 AM

95. Cali, you've been one of my favorite posters over the years.

The best I can promise is to write in Sanders.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 07:38 AM

98. I live in a swing state. If Clinton is the nominee, I'll hold my nose and vote "D". nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 07:41 AM

99. If I lived in a swing state, the DEM would get my vote, even Hillary.

 

But I live in solid Blue CT. So, yea.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 07:48 AM

100. My home state does not determine my presidential vote.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 08:50 AM

103. I do and I don't on the "duty" thing. nt

 

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