2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSo Bernie people. What are you going to do when Hillary gets nominated???
Will you support her????
kimbutgar
(27,248 posts)Response to Gomez163 (Original post)
Post removed
I rather like that response.
Response to kayakjohnny (Reply #11)
Post removed
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)ebayfool
(3,411 posts)Gotta keep the list current ya know.
nt
redwitch
(15,261 posts)Ya been here for 10 minutes, ya shouldn't be so snotty.
Jeffersons Ghost
(15,235 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)I know I responded earlier, but this really seems to piss off a certain contingent here, so why not?
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)That was going to be my answer......and to think, it could have been my first hide.
michaz
(1,352 posts)JeffHead
(1,186 posts)She on her own as far as I'm concerned. Good luck to her.
Democratic candidates don't get to do things like publicly crap all over single-payer health care with Republican talking points (Eek! Taxes! Not going to mention elimination of private insurance costs!), lie that their opponent proposing it will take health care away from "millions and millions and millions of people", and then get my support. But keep right on believing otherwise.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Kall
(615 posts)You're just going to have to deal with that. Choices like that have a cost.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,270 posts).....or so you guys claim.
shireen
(8,340 posts)IF she is nominated.
Please don't take the naysayers too seriously. As the national campaign unfurls, they are going to be too horrified by The Donald to risk him becoming president.
I heard that buffoon is already planning the design for his wall along the Mexico-US border!
greatauntoftriplets
(179,005 posts)shireen
(8,340 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(156,619 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)no fucking way.
I don't "support" corrupt, lying, Neocon pro-fracking, pro-death penalty hawkish DLC Third Way DINOs.
If you mean vote for her -- I'll see what the polls in my very blue state say in October. I'll only vote for her if it looks like she's close in the polls with Trump. Otherwise Jill Stein has my vote. But ... it's probably sexist to vote for THAT particular woman, huh?
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)other than the possibly voting for the 'corrupt, lying, Neocon pro-fracking, pro-death penalty hawkish DLC Third Way DINOs' part.
I'm not sure there is a clothespin big enough for my nose to do that.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)a position to (1) write-in Sanders or (2) vote Jill Stein (that is to say Hillary doesn't need your support to carry your blue state), what factors will you consider when deciding between option (1) and (2)?
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)I'd be happy to do either option. I like both of them.
I guess I need to mull this over more.
BOSNYCDC
(66 posts)I disagree with HRC on almost everything except PP support
I don't trust anything that comes out of her mouth
I disagree with DT on almost everything except single payer
I don't trust anything that comes out of his mouth
Quite a bind I'm in.
A BS write in is very, very possible for me - especially as I live in a state that will go 90-10 Dem for sure
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)Need I remind you that she hasn't secured the nomination yet, and that eight years ago she herself did not drop out until after the very last of the primaries.
It will be up to her to actively win my vote with policies and stands that align with mine. If that doesn't happen, I'm not voting for her. Nor will I be voting for Donald Trump.
I've had enough of voting for the lesser evil, which is still evil. I've had enough of my vote being taken for granted because I have no where else to go. If there's not a candidate out there who truly represents me, then I'll pass on voting, at least in the Presidential column.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)I'm befuddled as to how it makes an appropriate reply to what I posted.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)Okay so it's a strained reference.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)Vinca
(53,994 posts)That's the best I can do. I cannot "support" someone I can barely stomach. So she'll get my vote, but that's not intended as my support.
Dale Neiburg
(797 posts)aikoaiko
(34,214 posts)NV Whino
(20,886 posts)cliffordu
(30,994 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Good.to.see.you
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)How about yourself?
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)Two years ago and am now a bicycle courier here in the beautiful NW.....
Oldest bicycle courier in the state....lol....
Been off DU for a while, decided I'd come and visit. Jesus. Wtf happened here? It looks like paid trolls flinging shit at each other 24/7.
Was it always this way in the primaries or am I getting soft in my old age?
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Very few of us left here
Glad to hear you got it going on
You will always be one of the good guys to me
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)You always have been one of the best here, IMNSHO.
cali
(114,904 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Think most are like you in that regard.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)They have until nov to rebuild them
Or.not
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)Remember? She is winning!!!
Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)Of course I will support her if she gets the nomination.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)I'd LIKE to enthusiastically throw my support behind a true Democrat, but apparently we're getting stuck with Neocon Hillary instead.
Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)But as a life long Democrat, I would happily vote for her over any Republican. The stakes are too high to let a Republican in office.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)DU was formed to be a gathering spot for those not sharing Bush values. 15 years later, here we are.
JonathanRackham
(1,604 posts)eom.
The Blue Flower
(6,490 posts)I won't know until the time comes. I'm expecting her to go more to the right now to appeal to R's, now that she's "inevitable". If so, she won't need my vote, and I won't have to compromise my conscience.
Avalon Sparks
(2,751 posts)Nada, zilch.
LaurenG
(24,841 posts)What will YOU do if Bernie is our nominee? Can we get a loyalty pledge from you? I think it takes a ton of nerve to post flame bait and expect Bernie supporters to do anything but ask you to kiss their butts.
Turin_C3PO
(16,385 posts)rusty fender
(3,428 posts)Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)As it will be insufferable around here and I'm not interested in HRC Underground.
If Sanders doesn't make it, I'll do some research into the candidates that will be on my ballot and vote for the one who best fits my ideas and has the same vision for the country I do.
If that's HRC, after my research, then I'll vote for her, if not, then not.
napi21
(45,806 posts)I always listen to Norm Goldman's radio program, and yesterday someone called in DETERMINED NOT to support Hillary if she gets the nomination. Norm told her she was demanding too much from any candidate. "You're no looking to date someone, or become best friends. You won't completely agree with ANYONE except yourself! When voting for a candidate, you need to compare the two who are running and figure out which one best fits your desires. Hillary will nominate modest to liberal candidates for the SCOTUS. She will name DEMOCRATS to all the cabinet positions & fed. court judges. She WON'T kill Obamacare & she'll fight for an increase to the min. wage. That's good enough for me. Any other progressive things she gets through congress is a bonus.
IF the Trumpster gets elected say goodby to internet neutrality, Obamacare, the SCOTUS for decades, increase to the min. wage, more & bigger wars, etc. Absolutely NONE of his ideas are acceptable.
Voting third party simply increases the likelihood of a Trumpster win."
I really liked what he said and feel it makes sense. I would LOVE to have President Sanders because I'd like to see the Roosevelt Democracy come back, but o matter how many disagreements I have WITH Hillary, the worst things she would do are far more acceptable than the Trumpsters best!
LaurenG
(24,841 posts)Jemmons
(711 posts)Basically your radio host is saying that you dont have a choice - which is domonstrativly wrong - and that you should accept whatever outcome that a any rigged party process trows your way.
The primaries are run by the parties, not the nation and they are under no obligation to make primary election fair or democratic. So in theory you could end up with two candidates that are both bought by the usual kind of soft bribery that is now legal. And your host would then want you to just figure which one is worst and vote for the other one. Based on your representation, NG is either disengenious, corrupt or so shallow and shortsigted that he should not talk about politics.
As you seem to agree with NG, let me ask if you would prefer 4 years or Trump or 40 years of Democratic-in-name-only rule?
napi21
(45,806 posts)My first choice is Bernie, but it really doesn't look like he's going to be the winner. If it's Hillary, I know she will nominate liberal, or at the very least moderate Democratic justices to the SCOTUS, Democrats to the other fed. judge open slots, Democrats to her cabinet, and Democrats to ALL the different departments. I KNOW we will keep net neutrality, keep & move to improve Obamacare, strive to increase the min. wage, continue Obama's decisions regarding immigration and deportation. Any additional progressive accomplishments will be much appreciated gravy.
If
Trump gets to be Prez, you can kiss good by everything I've mentioned above but in the opposite direction!
I've had more than enough of a Pub controlled SCOTUS with Scalia for 40+ years!
Think about all the things HE has pushed through. Citizens United, elimination of the voting rights act that controlled the racist states, elimination of the mandate that forced all states to increase Medicaid to cover many more of it's citizens, and 50 more I won't list.
We need those decisions reversed, and for damn sure no Pubbie is going to do that!
Jemmons
(711 posts)Would you prefer 4 years of Trump if the alternative was 40 years (not 4) of fake, insincere, shallow, hollow, meaningless, sham, pseudo democratic rule?
The policies of such a regime would include but not be limited to the following:
The defense of marriage act.
The war on drugs.
The gutting of the social well fare system.
The endless war with Eurasia.
The end of meaningful debate.
The hollowing out of economic progress for anyone but people of wealth.
The ecconomic enslavery that comes with debt for the less privileged.
A political system that systematically minimizes the influence of individual voters.
Please explain your choice to me as if I was a 12 year old who had to live with the results of all this.
I suspect your trouble is that you dont imagine that you could ever get 40 years of sham democratic rule. So let me ask: If that was what you actually got, at what point would you revise your position? What would it take to convince you that you were now 14 or 21 years along a path that was leading nowhere?
You might be quite comfortable with this kind of rule. If you are a member of the "creative class" you have plenty of reason to be. But are you then really a democrat?
BzaDem
(11,142 posts)Let's imagine that Trump wins, and replaces Scalia, RBG, and Kennedy (resulting in a Republican court for decades). These justices are appointed for life, and would strike down any major progressive economic legislation that could possibly be signed by a progressive president in the future that would hypothetically meet your standards. In other words, by increasing the chances of Trump's wins for just 4 years, let's assume for the sake of argument that you are enshrining for decades everything in your entire list, and then some.
If that was what you actually got, at what point would you revise your position? Please explain your choice to me as if I was a 12 year old who had to live the results of all this.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)Why lie?
I swore that Obama would be the last time I cast a vote for a lesser of two evils. This time it looks as though selecting the "lesser of two evils" in the GE would be a crapshoot.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,961 posts)There is nothing stopping a President trump from putting Ted Cruz on the court.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)bluedigger
(17,437 posts)The superdelegate Senator she bought is on his own, though.
Autumn
(48,962 posts)of my business.
It's a real easy guess what I will be doing.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)I only saw season one.
Then my girlfriend gave me the entire collection of Zatoichi all 26 movies plus the new one.
I plan on watching that to.
Plus am working on my next Iaido rank exam.
Lots to do!
Jemmons
(711 posts)soo much music in their moves....
haikugal
(6,476 posts)mike_c
(37,051 posts)I changed my party affiliation to dem solely to vote for Senator Sanders. I'll either write him in or return to the Green Party if Sanders isn't the dem nominee.
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)Autumn
(48,962 posts)are not welcome in her big tent unless it's to clean up the elephant shit.
JPnoodleman
(454 posts)Her being the cleanest dirty shirt in the hamper isn't a solid reason to actually go vote.
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)JPnoodleman
(454 posts)I think I'll elect to go topless if my choice is between a blood stained shirt (Hillary) or a Blood and feces stained shirt (Trump)
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)JPnoodleman
(454 posts)More over, depending on ones State that is a foregone conclusion with Republicans running various State governments. Plus there is little indication Obamacare won't be grand bargained into the garbage heep via Clinton.
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)JPnoodleman
(454 posts)After she declared Bernies platform was a full stop no, why would I vote for her. She has no interest in the policies I wish and she changes her stance so much and based on who her audience is its hard to trust what her intentions actually are.
redwitch
(15,261 posts)ebayfool
(3,411 posts)Her being the cleanest dirty shirt in the hamper.
Amaril
(1,267 posts)Well, at least you're more creative than the people who are screen-capping rec lists.
Have fun!
I'll vote green party.
I live in a safe D congressional district and state, and my ballot gets mailed to me. I haven't decided if I'll cast a protest vote in down ballot races yet because my congresswomen supports Clinton in a county that probably won't.
insta8er
(960 posts)get even fatter. See the income inequality rise even more. And watch your social security check go to Goldman Sachs!
rbnyc
(17,045 posts)...if you are talking about Hillary or Trump.
Bettie
(19,704 posts)though, living in a 'small mostly white flyover state' and having been Sanders supporter, I'm told I'm not needed or wanted.
But, my state is a swing state, so I'll have to explain to my kids that sometimes you vote for someone you don't' believe in just so that someone worse doesn't get into office. It's like choosing to have your leg broken versus your back, neither is good for you, but one is much worse.
I will not donate to her, she has plenty of super pacs and wealthy donors so she doesn't need the small donations I could give.
I will not work for the campaign. Again, small, mostly white flyover state. Not needed, or so I'm told.
But, she'll get my grudging vote because Trump is probably worse, with the full expectation that she'll do whatever the Republicans demand in order to "get things done".
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #68)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)watched cable news ...hardly a mention of the Bern.
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)apcalc
(4,528 posts)No question, am in PA
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)who is a Berner is a Democrat. Millions of potential Democrats might choose other candidates once they are turned away. We have been talking about this for months now.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I can't support her. I will vote for her if Connecticut somehow becomes competitive. I am going to work to give her a Congress that forces her into more progressive positions than she'd prefer.
Free college? If she won't, let's give her a Congress that will force her to.
Single-payer healthcare? If she won't, let's give her a Congress that will force her to.
World peace? If she won't, let's give her a Congress that will force her to.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Dr. Strange
(26,058 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)flobee1
(870 posts)Hillary, the dnc, and her supporters neither need or want my vote anyway. She is so inevitable, she has already won the GE.
I wish her luck.
I just plan to sit on the back porch, and pick my guitar.
Right now, I'm fighting for the Democratic Party, and for the country. I understand that this forum is aligned with the Democratic Party. I have been a registered Democrat for decades. I have always voted Democrat. I have contributed, volunteered and been highly engaged. I hope we can emerge from the convention with a Sanders nomination and that I can remain a Democrat.
If not, I will be part of an alternative movement that will ultimately defeat both parties, and I understand that means saying goodbye to this forum.
I hope it doesn't come to that, but...
There has to come a time when we do things differently.
We will never climb out of this trap if we continue to deliver the message to the DNC that our fear of Republicans will compel us to get in line behind the establishment candidate every time. We have to stop delivering the message that as long as LGBT rights, reproductive freedom, Medicare and Social Security are in jeopardy, that we will always fall into place. The Democratic Party will never be incentivized to fully secure these precious issues as long as their peril delivers our obedience, and the ground we lose every election cycle that we refuse to be brave, especially in our race against irreversible climate catastrophe, is profound.
We have come to a place in history where enough of us are willing to be brave that we can make a difference, and regardless of whether you think it's right or wrong, this is the choice that is before the Democratic Party right now:
They can let our political revolution lead the party and win, or they can force us out and lose.
http://rbouchard68.blogspot.com/2016/04/i-was-once-like-you-sad-stubborn.html
The trap of our two party system has caused so much damage. I can't for the life of me understand why people are so determined to defend the trap.
"They can let our political revolution lead the party and win, or they can force us out and lose."
We are in this for the long haul.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)rules, what Sanders' role at the convention and in the fall campaign becomes, etc.
Hillary's pretty marginal in her appeal to me (I feel about Hillary the same way many Hillary supporters feel about Jim Webb). I'd definitely support Hillary if I though the race was close and a vote for her in Texas would be a meaningful way to stop Trump.
Given that Hillary would lose Texas despite my vote and win (I hope) nationally without my vote, I'm not sure it matters whether I vote Hillary, write-in Sanders, or vote Jill Stein.
If we nominate Hillary, I will choose among these options based on data that has yet to be developed. I will definitely consider voting for Hillary and I have never failed to vote for the Democratic candidate for president, but much remains to be revealed.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)Otherwise, I don't usually make plans that far ahead... or swear out loyalty oaths for the benefit of liberal interventionists/neoconservatives/whatever the hell she is this week.
If it wasn't for protecting Obamacare, she would have NO chance of getting my vote.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)It'll be the shitshow of the century.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)I will vote down ballot
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)After I grudgingly vote for HRC.
Urchin
(248 posts)Because he'll probably screw-up so badly, he'll be impeached and convicted in no time.
So depends who his VP will be.
dinkytron
(568 posts)coffeeAM
(180 posts)15 bucks an hour minimum wage and free college tuition.
Nanjeanne
(6,589 posts)Show me how she supports me. If she does, I will.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)Stop begging for loyalty when your candidate has none to anyone but herself. What you need to do is get out and sell the candidate you support, you will need all hands on deck because with her negatives it will be a hard sell. I will just be doing whatever I feel, as stated. Enjoy.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)I will vote for her as the candidate who probably will do less damage to America.
Beyond that, I am unwilling to contribute my time, effort and funds to her campaign. I will be fair, but I'm uncertain if I will expend the energy to put out fires that her actions and positions have caused.
I am not going to sell someone the idea of voting for her as I don't believe in the product. I try to look at so many different factors and our current course is unsustainable.
At the moment voting for her in November is all I can commit to. Wether I help out, stay the same or actively work against her remains in question. I'd like to say I'll stay the same, which is the most probable course, but again, I do look at as many factors as I can.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)to support your observation, or is this your way of saying "fuck you" to anyone who says these stupid Clinton loyalty oaths are as cretinous as ever?
Go ahead. Who?
baldguy
(36,649 posts)This post was hidden by jury decision, +5, +6, +7, +8, +9, +10, +11, +12, 13....
All Trump supporters. Don't try to deny it.
bvf
(6,604 posts)Anything more I could say here would surely garner an alert, so I'll leave you with this:
bvf
(6,604 posts)You can't seem to control yourself, but don't dare blame a Trump presidency on anything but your own mindset.
Pointing a finger is all you have.
And with that, I'm done with you.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)When they're trying to play-act as a progressive Democrat.
Wouldn't be the first time DU's been infiltrated by RW provocateurs.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)DU is supposed to be dedicated to electing more Democrats to political office at all levels of American government. Well-informed, politically liberal people understand the importance of working within the system to do so.
Sanders supporters want to destroy that system, and to that end would see the Democratic Party decimated & dismembered, and the use of endless RW fascist talking points against the presumptive Democratic nominee is cheered on. Clinton has always presented the best opportunity to defeat any GOP candidate - especially Trump.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)said to the Wall Street Banksters who stoled our money.
bvf
(6,604 posts)racking up hides, and, most importantly, trying to render the Democratic party ever more indistinguishable from that of Rove and Atwater.
You're seeing DU amnesty, in all its glory, personified.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
peace13
(11,076 posts)Try to find a way to organize my life so that I can put one foot in front of the other. Try to discover where the meaning of honesty went and where I can find it and drag it back to this society. So I will be pretty occupied.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Rass
(112 posts)If Hillary can stop or heavily tax companies from offshoring American jobs.
In other words,.. aint gonna happen. She doesn't give a shit about the working class.
I didn't feel that way at the start of the campaign. I thought we had two pretty good choices, though I liked Bernie better.
But after all the shenanigans, rule-bending, disrespect, etc. that Hillary and her supporters have shown toward Bernie and his supporters . . .
Meanwhile, Bernie has shown not just integrity but chivalry (I use the latter term as something I wish everyone would show everyone). He could have kept quiet about the wall breach, and simply exploited it; he didn't. He could have jumped on the "Hillary's emails" bandwagon; he made a point of refusing.
It would not have been hard to throw a lot more dirt on Hillary.
Instead, he's stuck to the issues. He's cast no aspersions; he's merely pointed out the facts of her record.
In return, Hillary or her supporters have bent every rule her way and done all they could to portray him and his supporters as racist and sexist charges that are both ridiculous and unfair.
The 1%-owned media have been completely complicit. Anyone who imagines there was a fair fight jeez, what did Trump get, what does he still get, something like 82 minutes of coverage for every two seconds Bernie gets? And they pretend to wonder how Trump could have gotten so far!
I am not loyal to mere power.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Then the Whos down in Whoville will all cry, "Boo Hoo!"
That's a noise, (the Grinch said,) that I simply must hear!
Narrator: So he paused, And the Grinch put a hand to his ear.
And he did hear a sound rising over the snow.
It started in low.
Then it started to grow...
But this-- the sound wasn't sad.
Why, this sound sounded glad!
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)Bern2WinUSA
(44 posts)Bernie or Bust!!
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)frustrated_lefty
(2,774 posts)Pennsylvania here, not sure what I'll do, but voting for Hillary is NOT an option.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Since univeral healthcare will be off the table.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)to await a special delivery from the C.I.A.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)w4rma
(31,700 posts)I'll vote for her, if it comes down to it, but all she gets from me is my vote. I could, honestly, care less if she wins or loses since she's a weak candidate who is hell bent on alienating me and my positions on the issues.
Also, she is incapable of winning a reelection campaign, but she's too selfish to step aside for anyone better. So, she'll usher in another Republican wave during the midterms, just like her husband did and then, in 2 years, a popular Republican - in name and action - president.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)I will probably take a deep breath, hold my nose, and vote for the lesser of the two evils.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)your _______ and ______ it where the sun doesn't shine!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Not a when.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Because true progressives dont support riggings of the Democratic process
jmousso75
(71 posts)Living in New York State where the primary was fixed for Hillary, stay home.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... that I will decline to share. (You'll have to use your imagination.)
fifthoffive
(382 posts)If she has a chance to win my deeply red state, I'll vote for her. If not, I'll vote for Stein.