Why It Matters That Hillary Supported Welfare Reform

If you ignore an issue, it just goes away. Also, if you shoot the messenger, the message was a lie.

you're sexist, somehow racist or some other bullshit.

have another go at it.

I agree with Hillary on this . Welfare back then was a giveaway to a ton of lazy people who used it for cable TV and they would sell food stamps for money for a 12 pack instead of feeding their kids. I've seen people cheat the system rather easily who say they are "looking" for work and applying for positions they knew they could never get so they could send their copied applications in as "proof" for unemployment and food stamps. Now they have to find work within two years to keep the help, I think that's a good thing.

There are certainly issues with the system because it doesn't help someone making current
min wage who is truly trying to get ahead any possibility of that climb up the ladder and it allows companies such as Walmart to use the system via underpaying their workers and then pointing them to the welfare office.

are no different than the republican friends and acquaintances that I argue with in my personal life.

They both take most of the same positions and use the same arguments. I have to wonder, if she pulls this off, how long it will be before they stop pretending.

I'm seeing disenfranchised republicans not 'centrist' democrats.

but you're all upset about people at the tops of corporations doing the very same thing?

what the hell are you talking about and how does that relate to my reply

me: I agree with Hillary's view on welfare reform in the 90s.

99 forever: "Rush is that you? "

Ferd :"Clinton are no different than the republican friends and acquaintances that I argue with in my personal life.
They both take most of the same positions and use the same arguments. I have to wonder, if she pulls this off, how long it will be before they stop pretending. I'm seeing disenfranchised republicans not 'centrist' democrats."

Since you apparently disagree with the policies that forced recipients to get work to continue getting government help because they are " the same positions and use the same arguments." as Republicans. Then it is logical to assume you think it's ok for people to have been able to game the system so easily.


Do try and keep up, I mean it's all literally posted in front of your face. but if you still need help , I'm always here!

...see, that is exactly the problem right there.

First: in case you haven't noticed, there isn't enough work to go around in the first place. And those on welfare are often (not always) the least trained, least qualified -- i.e., they won't be getting most jobs, and the ones they do will be the ones that don't pay a living wage.

Now combine that with single mothers who are forced to go to work -- work that doesn't even pay enough to cover their child care expenses, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Do some people game the system? Yes, of course. There is not a system devised by mankind that someone has not figured out how to game. As I said in my previous response to you, though, we would gain much more by going after the big gamers -- corporations, banks, the MIC and the very wealthy -- and we would not be inflicting suffering on any of them, except for the suffering they get when they see their bottom line reduced by a few percentage points, which will not affect the quality of their lives one damned bit.

JHFC I am sick of people defending this shit. And on DEMOCRATIC Underground, no less. My my, how the times have changed. Used to be, most of us here had actual liberal / progressive values.

... [and Bernie is no FDR].

"there isn't enough work to go around in the first place"

Hence the WPA. I'm all for bringing that back. There's plenty of work to be done.

...who has a provocative anti-Bernie gif at the bottom of his or her posts.

So while I am glad you are for a WPA-type program, it rings a bit hollow. Who the hell do you think is more likely to implement such a program, Hillary or Bernie?

Also your transparency page...

So no "Welcome to DU" from me. Looks like yet another recently-signed-up Hillary shill, just as we might expect, given Brock's recent announcement.

No I am not accusing you, just noting how... coincidental it is.

..."They're so stacked and bogus"?

That you don't care, though, is readily apparent. Hence my reluctance to welcome you to DU.

And when I demonstrated numerically how bogus they were, even that got hidden. It's bogus and I don't care what you think or how you feel about it.

...what I think or how I feel about "it", whatever "it" is... then why the hell are you responding?

Meh. Done here. TTFN.

They're worried. I almost feel bad for them. Imagine the cognitive dissonance they must endure

enforcement to prevent abuse, and totally upending and screwing up a worthwhile program for political expediency and cluelessness about what real life for real people on low incomes is like?

He'd agree with you...

customers bothers me more than the damage that an unemployed mother of a couple of kids does when she receives welfare money and stays home with her children.

It's a matter of values. I'd rather break up the overly large big banks and save the world economy than worry about people who might be abusing the welfare system.

I worked on a homeless project for years.

The other day, while campaigning for Bernie, I met a young man who could not fill out his voter registration card. Couldn't even print his name without falling apart. I asked him if something was wrong and he told me how sad he was. We were right next to a church, so I took him inside. This young man was jobless, homeless, had no family and was very uncertain about who he was or where he was except that he had been in foster care since the age of six, had been in juvenile hall and had been treated for a disability (I would guess a mental illness) at what we call the Regional Center.

Fortunately because of my background, I understood what being in a foster home, in Juvenile Hall and at the Regional Center meant. I'm not now qualified to give him much help, but I got him in touch with people who could help him.

I realize that those who are well set up in life, people like Hillary Clinton (who worked on children's issues when she was young and should know better) and Donald Trump do not understand just how both common and complex the issues of homelessness and need in our society are.

I do expect understanding from people who bother to come to a website like Democratic Underground.

Life is not such an easy path for many of us. And those of us who have been given the gifts of understanding, of the ability to learn and to take care of ourselves should live in great awe of those gifts and of the undeniable fact that they are merely gifts that we have been given, that we did not work for, that were our birthright through no merit of our own.

When you reach out to others with compassion, you can only feel humility and wonder at your own good fortune.

Welfare was a good program. In Los Angeles we face a flood of homelessness and joblessness. And it is much worse in third world countries. Have some compassion and understanding, please.

customers bothers me more than the damage that an unemployed mother of a couple of kids does when she receives welfare money and stays home with her children."


That doesn't excuse allowing it from anyone. Its immoral and hypocritical.
I've worked for IHN for years, so don't go preaching to me about having compassion and helping poor people get off the streets.

...and the usual anecdotal "I actually know people who cheat the system".

Well guess what? You want to know who really cheats the system? Big corporations, big banks, the military, and the very wealthy.

But thanks for playing. Not ready to welcome you yet, something just seems... a bit off. As though you just came here recently to shill for Hillary... no, that couldn't be.

Uh huh.

and the coup de grace to a progressive and liberal Democratic Party

There's no way for her to make up for this as far as liberal voters are concerned.

Those that consider themselves liberal and somehow ignore this issue, I do not understand.

left the Dems 10 years earlier in large numbers.

So, no probs here.

This place was not so infested supporters of right wing bullshit, once upon a time.

The goal should be to give people temporary assistance while they get back on their feet, that is what the Clintons have supported.

Bless your heart.

Them with their better healthcare systems, their better infant mortality rates, their better education...

(Here, in case you'd like to learn something (lol yeah right!) http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/03/no-it-isnt-free-stuff-supporting-bernie-sanders-is.html )

already. He needed to keep her on the defensive. She doesn't do defensive well. She gets really...well, defensive.

So much bad stuff went down in those years. And some of us let it go because we were so preoccupied with the republican war on Clinton's private behavior that we ignored the really mean and nasty policies he was pushing.

She's not so likely to get a free pass from Trump.

and gnashing of teeth.

Half the criticism leveled at her gets met with cries of "SEXISM!" - can you imagine the uproar if he'd really gone after her?

He was trying to appeal to 'loyal democrats' who were in love with the Clinton[sup]TM[/sup] Brand. He played it carefully, but you're right - Trump will not.

he's not interested in punching out other human beings.

He's interested in punching out poverty, hunger, bigotry, injustice, cruelty, and suffering.

That's just the way he is.

What a funny thought!

I was talking about making personal attacks on people, insults, putdowns, character assassination, etc. Bernie doesn't do it. It's not in him. He's not cruel.

The closest I've ever seen was his dressing down of Alan Greenspan -- but that wasn't personal; he was attacking Greenspan's policies, and he was doing so because Greenspan was very powerful and his policies were hurting the American people.

Tough issue to deal with politically even today folks.

for the past three decades. But hey, chasing progressives out of the party to increase the $$$$ coming in was so worth it, amirite?

And now in addition to using dogwhistle phrases to appeal to racists, they're bringing out real classics like redbaiting!

Super smart, those New Dems are!

I really do.

How could anyone with a conscience ever want her in the presidency?

of work he ended up getting a couple DWIs and doing some jail time. He just lost a desire to do anything but lay around and drink with
his buddies. At the time he had a wife and two small children. The best thing ever happened to him was the welfare reform, it forced him to straighten up and he got a job and took pride in his work. He did pretty good for several years until his wife divorced him and he went back to full time drinking again and ended up getting fired from his job. He passed away a couple years ago from the results of his drinking.
I believe if it wasn't for the welfare reform he would have drank himself to death years before.

Bernie actually voted for it.

The welfare reform bill was incalculably awful and destructive. I was raised by a single mother who was also caring for a disabled adult child. (My father pretty much lost his mind and became an addict when the steel industry went down, so he was out.) They cut her off AFDC. She tried to get job training, but was told she was too old. She tried to get any job, but was told that they do not subsidize day care for adult disabled people- especially ones who have seizures every day and need constant attention, and cannot be left alone for a minute. She was utterly neglected and left destitute by these great compassionate, liberal policies. I went to work after school and helped out where I could, that was supposed to be the money I was saving for college. I hoped to never see another Clinton the rest of my days. It's my very personal grievance, but I'm keeping it. These people are no friends to the underprivileged or disabled. They didn't give any thought to the worth and dignity of someone who devoted their entire life to taking care of a disabled person, it wasn't worth shit to them.