Bernie's argument that winning southern Red states like Georgia dont matter, has been blow away.

[DCBob]

New Poll: Dead heat in Georgia HRC vs. Trump.

The poll, conducted on May 5, also shows more than a third of independent voters have not made up their minds about a candidate.

The poll shows early voters are essentially split between the two candidates with Trump earning 42 percent and Clinton receiving 41 percent.

"I think Hillary Clinton has a chance to win Georgia if she is willing to invest here and put people in the state," Democratic strategist Billy Linville said.

Clinton is getting more independent voters than Trump but almost 40 percent remain undecided. She also leads among women by 5 percent. Trump leads men by 6 percent but he has a double digit lead among voters over age 65.

Clinton won the Georgia Primary on March 1 in a landslide over Bernie Sanders with 71 percent of the vote. Trump beat out a long list of Republican candidates with 39 percent of the vote.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/poll-georgians-largely-undecided-about-presidential-race/265867522

=============

How many posts did we see here about how unimportant it was Hillary winning the deep south "confederate" states primaries since we would never win those in the general? They sure look stupid now.

We have a chance this election to turn a number of red states blue.. like GA, AZ and perhaps even TX if Castro is the VP.

[riversedge]

1. Just saw this poll. Great news.

[Armstead]

2. You are distorting Sanders point

Sanders has said repeatedly that the Democratic Party needs to have a 50 state strategy. he does not wriote off the South in a broader sense.

His remarks were in response to the question of how HIS PRIMARY campaign could best utilize limited time and resources, especially at times where there were numerous states involved. He knew he had no chance in the South, so he was focused on states where he had a chance of winning or doing well.

I don't care if people disagree with him, but at least don;t distort things, please.

[LonePirate]

3. Tme and resources are even more limited in the GE. They do not suddenly become abundant.

Talking about a 50 state strategy is nice but enacting is another ball game entirely.

[thesquanderer]

23. Resources are less limited in the GE.

Unlike in a primary, Bernie would have the full resources of the Democratic party (the DNC etc.) at his back.

[TimPlo]

24. Well are you sure about that?

I mean DWS has endorsed GOP candidates in FL over DNC ones. And now looks like DNC front runner is courting GOP voters over liberals. So not sure if DNC is liberal party anymore.

[mythology]

8. And I quote Tad Devine

"Her grasp now on the nomination is almost entirely on the basis of victories where Bernie Sanders did not compete," said senior strategist Tad Devine. "Where we compete with Clinton, where this competition is real, we have a very good chance of beating her in every place that we compete with her."

Devine named eight states where he said the Sanders campaign did not compete with a big presence on the ground or much on-air advertising: Texas, Alabama, Virginia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi, Georgia, and Arkansas. Clinton, Devine argued, "has emerged as a weak front-runner."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/sanders-campaign-makes-its-case-winning-nomination

[Armstead]

9. I take Tad Devine with several grains of salt

he is a professional spinner. That's one of the things he's paid to do....If he were working for Clinton, he'd be spinning for her just as much.

I prefer to takes Sanders own words as expressing what he's thinking.

[Demsrule86]

13. Really

Well Clinton did not 'compete' in Indiana now did she...so Bernies victory is not relevant?

[oberliner]

18. Kind of makes Tad Devine look like a moron

Why would he not compete in those states if he knew it would give her an unsurmountable delegate lead?

[griffi94]

52. What about NY PA MD CT

Bernie did seriously contest those states and still
got hammered.
Mr. Devine seems to have overlooked those.

[DCBob]

11. His comment that the southern states Hillary won were "conservative" was dismissive.

Why else even make that comment?

[Fawke Em]

41. But we are.

And Georgia isn't going to Clinton.

[mcar]

34. Except in primary voting

He said time and again that Southern states' primary votes for HRC didn't mean anything. He cannot have it both ways.

[uponit7771]

40. no

[pnwmom]

50. He also said it later, dismissing the south as too conservative and saying that's why

he didn't have support there.

[Armstead]

55. before this particular primary....Many mainstream Democrats have said the same thing...

It's been a perennial issue and concern since LBJ said "We just lost the South" after signing civil rights legislation.

You don't have to dig very deep into contemporary history for that.

But when an opponent of Clinton says it.....ooooooooooo suddenly all of history becomes irrelevant and he's a bad, bad man.

This perpetual disinformation campaign and denigration of all history BC (Before Clinton) has gotten really old. Just like the conservative attacks on liberal policies as "free stuff."

[pnwmom]

57. But he never dismissed his caucus wins in red states like Idaho that we'd never win in the general.

He only said that about southern red states with lots of African Americans.

[Armstead]

58. I'm not counting any more angels on the head of a pin with you.

If you want to rewrite history to advance Clinton (TM) demographic marketing and branding strategy....er, political campaign, be my guest.

[NurseJackie]

4. Was it Bernie's campaign that used the phrase "Confederate States" to be dismissive ...

... of the results, or was it one of his regular surrogates? I can't recall.

[DCBob]

10. Not sure exactly where all I heard that but for sure it was said many times...

in support of Bernie.

[Eric J in MN]

15. No. It was 'Progressive Democrats of America" and they apologized. NT

NT

[NurseJackie]

21. Thanks! (Even with an apology, the damage had been done.)

Found this:

The PDA quickly apologized. In truth, however, the organization was parroting an argument I’ve seen made by scattered Sanders fans on social media over the last few weeks.

It has taken a couple of different forms – sometimes the claim substitutes “red states” for “Southern states” – but the implication is always the same: Hillary Clinton is winning states that no Democrat will win in the general election...

But there is a wider issue here, of which this dust-up is just an example, and that is the tendency of Democrats and left-of-center voters to throw up our hands and sneer at the South when it comes to talk of a voting coalition, or just about anything else.

Call it the “Fuck the South” reflex.

Yes, things like this do seem to be pervasive. In my opinion, many of the Sanders supporters have grabbed that baton and are running with it. It doesn't seem to be a very good strategy, but the belief that Southern states don't matter is one that probably makes his losses easier to accept (or to simply ignore) without having to find fault in their candidate, or in their overall strategy.

[uponit7771]

43. Sanders used the word conservative in regards to the southern states but not the northern states

... with less PoC.

It was overt or at the least irrationally tone deaf

[Joe the Revelator]

5. What should worry you is the cross tab showing more dems voting for Trump...

....than Republicans voting for Hillary.

http://media.beta.wsbtv.com/document_dev/2016/05/06/Statewide%20Poll%20Pres%20May%205th%20xlsx_4271809_ver1.0.pdf

[Joe the Revelator]

6. Plus, 36% of Republicans are undecided. They are going to come 'home'.

#crosstabsmatter.

[rhett o rick]

7. For some strange reason, they don't care. They believe Trump is better than Sanders. nm

[pnwmom]

51. And yet they are statistically tied, in a state that should have been easy for the GOP.

But not anymore because Georgia's demographics are changing and Hillary does well with a state with demographics like Georgia's.

[Joe the Revelator]

59. Look at the cross tabs for undecided republicans...Georgia is not anywhere close to turning blue.

[Demsrule86]

12. And I might add

There is no way Georgia votes for Bernie had he won the general...He would not get Virginia or Ohio either.

[quaker bill]

19. Hillary has a snowball's chance in Savannah in August

of winning Georgia. If she has the Midwest locked down by huge margins in October, then perhaps she should filter a few bucks at GA. Only as an after thought to expand the map, if that is possible at all.

[Demsrule86]

25. George was close in 12 considering Obama never campaigned there

Georgia will be blue way before Texas...may this year ...maybe not. I would remind you people said the same about Virginia.

[quaker bill]

32. Part of my family lives in GA

Trump signs litter the roads there. Hillary will do fine in Atl and Savanah... The rest of the state, not so much.

[Demsrule86]

33. My family lives there too

And Trump will bring out the anti-Trump vote and there are moderate Gop types among the rabid right:any who were blue dogs in years gone by...I think it is possible. I lived there for over ten years.Georgians also have a really lousy Republican governor. No one thought Virginia would go, blue but it did. Dean was right, we compete in all 50 states. Dean was the best DNC chairman we ever had.

[lancer78]

48. 45.7 %

of Georgia's population is non-white. Its a comin, there is a train coming through and the bigoted,rural white voter is standing on the tracks.

[onenote]

14. almost half of Sanders' primary/caucus victories have come in traditionally red states

Utah, for example, which has gone Democratic once since the 1050s.

It was silly for some of Sanders' supporters to discount Clinton's victories in the South because they were in "red" states.

[uponit7771]

42. +1, That why people were asking why is he delinating "southern" red states vs the other red states &

... the one big factor was the non southern red states did not have as diverse a population.

It was overt and at the least irrationally tone deaf to dismiss the southern states

[Eric J in MN]

16. Bernie Sanders didn't say that.

He said: We lost the South, which is the most conservative part of the country, but we're looking forward to upcoming contests.

In other words, he was optimistic at the time about getting the most overall pledged delegates by doing well in the states which vote in the second half of primary season.

[DCBob]

17. He said it in a dismissive tone.. as if they didnt matter because they were "conservative".

He was making excuses for losing there and many of his supporters have backed him up with attacks on the south using terms like "confederate states" "red states" and that we will never win those in the general anyway so they dont matter as much as the "progressive" states. That's complete bullshit.

[Eric J in MN]

20. Future presidential candidates

...should avoid discussing why they lost states.

It seems to offend without a benefit.

It would have been better if Sanders had just said, "I'm optimistic about upcoming contests," without saying anything about states he lost.

[thesquanderer]

22. It's "tone" time again!

It sounds to me like saying they were more conservative states was being used to explain why he expected to be able to do better elsewhere. Part of his job all along has been to convince people he still had a chance, even when events turned against him, because people seeing you as not having a chance can quickly become a self fulfilling prophecy.

But I won't even attempt to comment specifically on "tone" unless I see a video. Anyone got a link?

[Demsrule86]

35. I heard several of the interview where he said stuff like that

Bernie Sanders told “Nightly Show” host Larry Wilmore at a taping Wednesday evening that scheduling Southern states early in the Democratic primary “distorts reality.” […]

“Well, you know,” Sanders said, “people say, ‘Why does Iowa go first, why does New Hampshire go first,’ but I think that having so many Southern states go first kind of distorts reality as well.”
Comments like these are an extension of a standard argument from the Sanders campaign: it may look like Hillary Clinton enjoys a sizable advantage, but her lead only exists because of the South. The “reality,” when it’s not “distorted,” is a lot different."


Yet somehow rightie states like Utah that are essentially white ...are significant. I don't know how Bernie explains these comments.

[thesquanderer]

38. Nowhere have I heard him claim they are insignificant.

As you stated, having small states like IA and NH go first arguably distorts things, as does then front-loading a whole bunch of southern states. Agree or disagree, I don't see what is unreasonable about this, nor where it implies that IA, NH, or southern states are not important. Saying that there is a skew in the way things play out is not the same as saying these states are insignificant, or less significant than Utah or whatever.

[uponit7771]

45. Again, syntax... he didn't have to say those words verbatim he said the same thing using different

... words.

[thesquanderer]

54. No, his "different words" said something else, as I described. (Or do you mean a different quote?)

When it's easy to see a different meaning when you take someone's words at face value, there's no rationale beyond personal bias to assign a more nefarious meaning.

[Live and Learn]

56. It is not 'syntax' nor, is it a 'misquote'. It is quite simply a LIE and SLANDER.

But we've gotten use to that here.

[AgingAmerican]

31. The deep south isn't conservative

It is reactionary, and they don't matter in the GE.

[Demsrule86]

36. Neither does Utah, Nebraska

or Indiana.

[AgingAmerican]

39. Indiana went D in 2008

Nebraska went D in 1992 and 1976

Utah is hopeless, just like the Deep south

[uponit7771]

44. Syntax at best

[CrowCityDem]

26. It was always insulting. Now it's insulting and stupid.

[HooptieWagon]

27. If Hillarians are counting on Georgia...

...good luck with that plan.

[DCBob]

29. If the Bernsters think any Democrat is counting on Georgia..

[Demsrule86]

37. I don't know if Georgia flips this year

But it will flip way before Texas.

[Buns_of_Fire]

28. Isn't Hillary supposed to squash Rump squishy across-the-board?

With 40% undecided and Rump leading by double-digits with the over-65 crowd (one of Hillary's strong suits), it might be a little premature to break out the champagne this early.

[DCBob]

30. I am confident she will squash him but no one should be celebrating.

The country is full of angry low information voters brain washed by RW media.. we still need to work hard against all that to make sure they dont steal this election.

[hellofromreddit]

47. "The country is full of angry low information voters"

Are you slamming the deep south?

People around here are pretty touchy about that.

[lancer78]

49. The country

i assume means all of America.

[uponit7771]

46. No, the RNC has a base vote for 43% of the electorate no matter who they run

[brush]

53. They were important for winning the nomination

They just about constitutues Clinton's delegate lead over Sanders.

It was a no-brainer. I never did get the ABSOLUTELY STUPID argument that the southern primaries didn't matter.

Sanders' campaign was asleep at the switch and didn't want to admit dropping the ball, thus, that argument.

It was like "duh", you have to win delegates to win the nomination to get to the general election. WTH are you sitting out all those early primaries?