2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumthere is a difference between protesting famous people and candidates
and protesting ordinary people. Today I went to Out Raleigh, which is basically a gay festival in Raleigh. My chorus' booth was directly across from the protesters and for three or more ours I had to listen to them preach about gays going to Hell and all that. It frankly got old. I haven't participated in the threads about the protesters at Hillary's speech in LA but here is what my problem is with them. The shouting at the attendees. Protest her as much as you want. But don't shout obscenities at people who merely are attending a political event. And you really don't shout obscenities at people in front of their children.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)Last edited Sun May 8, 2016, 02:07 PM - Edit history (1)
their idea.
It's called cowardice.
Cowardice that you're not doing a good enough job selling your own idea and you need to shut down all opposition, remove all alternatives, just to be safe. Your idea may be shitty, but it's the only one people are actually allowed to hear, so you win, right?
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)A brutal record. So it made sense actually.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)It makes you look intolerant and scary...not good for your movement.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Supposedly this campaign is about ideas but this shows that is not true because you don't let Hillary share ideas...it's bash and bash some more...it makes you all look really bad.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)From expressing their right to assemble and protest. They seem to have a legitimate issue with her.
Do you support taking away the first Ammendment?
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)dsc
(52,155 posts)I did support their message and felt that targeting Bernie, Hillary and Martin was fine. But the fact is people who did what they did deserve to get arrested for it. I would assume they would have accepted being arrested had it come to that.
Response to dsc (Reply #6)
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Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #2)
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dsc
(52,155 posts)go ahead. I am waiting.
Response to dsc (Reply #9)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
dsc
(52,155 posts)I also didn't protest private people. I may well have raised a voice at public figures which I think is perfectly acceptable. BTW I was pretty clear in my post but you, like usual, chose to instead make a post up to respond to.
Response to dsc (Reply #14)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)But it makes you look bad and how does that help Bernie...I feel that the people supporting Bernie who act like this cause people to turn away from his positive message. You think the Mom of the kid reduced to tears will ever give Bernie's message a shot ever...in the future? How about the kid...not likely now is it. So what do you accomplish other than to make fools of yourself and turn people who might be allies at another time off with these sort of protest?
Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #45)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Silence can be deafening at times
dsc
(52,155 posts)I had no problem with the net roots protest where they spoke their piece and then the candidates got to speak. I think in Seattle they went too far.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)admitted to being motivated by antisemitism. That event was a rally for Social Security, full of senior citizens and disabled people who were called 'white supremacists'.
I did stuff with ACT UP. I support disruptive activism instinctively but such actions must, must, must be discussed openly that is part of the process and part of the action. DU did not allow that discussion, anyone who wanted to discuss got called racists by a bunch of Jew baiting bigots.
As a veteran of more than one such action I kept trying to point out that Bernie in Seattle and he and O'Malley at Netroots had responded better to the disruption that 99% of targeted politicians do. No one on your side including you would discuss that history. I posted Bill Clinton screaming at ACT UP disruptive activists, wagging finger and saying 'don't be so emotional' to a man with weeks to live. But that could not be discussed, no the message was 'Bernie Bad, Bernie Worst Ever Jew Candidate'.
You and your cohort took part in that. It was antisemitic, dishonest, evasive and a misused and abuse of activist history.
The way your cohort refused to discuss ACT UP history fit well with your candidate's sermon about ACT UP not doing anything at all until Ronald and Nancy Reagan got that AIDS activism started.
Hard to take any of this as informed or sincere discussion.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Can you show me a link?
Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #15)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Here's another interesting video of the demonstration:
East L.A. Protests Hillary Clinton
Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #18)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Henhouse
(646 posts)Henhouse
(646 posts)Guero/Guera
Whitey. Pale one. Honkey.
Guero is for guys, guera for girls. When used among friends, it's like calling someone dude. When used with people you don't know...watch your ass.
Response to Henhouse (Reply #22)
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Henhouse
(646 posts)Response to Henhouse (Reply #25)
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Henhouse
(646 posts)Response to Henhouse (Reply #28)
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nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)I give Bernie all the credit in the world for having the patience to stand aside and hand those two a microphone. They would not have liked my response. Not. One. Bit. But then, I would never run for office. I don't have the patience for it. I've personally dealt with religious protesters in the past and I've dealt with them successfully, but with far different tactics that made sure they weren't going to ever do so again. And, sure enough, they are learning.
speaktruthtopower
(800 posts)glowing
(12,233 posts)some dignity. However, there is a lot of anger in America. No one is listening to those who need change, desperate change. And since this year has had really big, bold ideas presented this year. Trump wants to build walls and point fingers and blame the politicians as corrupt (and they are). Bernie has said, hey, there isn't a war anywhere that isn't funded when they need it, really building America, creating fair trade, protecting the environment, education as a right, housing as a right, access to food as a right, acces to good paying jobs a right, health care as a right... Well, it resonates. It pushes Clinton to claim she was a progressive.
People are hurting. People are fighting for a future. Survival mode is tiring and taxing and frustrating. And for many years, during the Bush years even, people have been in "struggle" mode. Remember that woman saying she had to work 3 jobs to survive, and Bush said "good for you"... Like it was something for everyone to aspire to? Do you remember 2008 campaign when Obama said wages have decreased by and avg of $2000 for real families (before the crash)?
Look, many thought they were getting Bernie when they voted for Obama. And his selections for admin posts were essentially the signal that he wasn't going to be progressive or walking picket lines. He even suggested messing with social security as a compromise to Republicans. Thank God seniors blow back on that still. Still the amt isn't enough to keep up with costs and many seniors rely on it exclusively. I think he has tried to be good to people, but walk the corporate line as well. I think the Dems blew an amazing opportunity to essentially herald in a modern day FDR type of agenda; especially with the millions of people riding high on a "new day" and opportunity to go in a different direction than Bush/ Cheney.. And that didn't happen.
Many people don't want to wait another 4 to 8 yrs. Many more kids will be priced out of education. Insurance costs are on the rise. And jobs are stagnant on wages, though costs on everything seem to increase. People have the right to be angry. Yelling profanities isn't exactly the right method... However, protestors are going to be loud... And what was up with that arrangement on entering that building? It set up some extreme optics and overbearing presence. The police should have created a better crowd controlled barrier to the entrance hall. It was like walking thru a dug out... So strange. Between the media and the protestors, the optics on the whole thing was odd. And perhaps Clinton people should think of these things in the future. They will be met with protesters more and more. They shouldn't choose facilities that create a hostile environment for all involved.
Quite literally, she may become one of the MOST protested Presidents of modern history when she had Pugs on one side and progressive on the other. She's a very decisive politician for an already very divided electorate.
Urchin
(248 posts)Obscenities are used on DU quite a bit, too.
dsc
(52,155 posts)though it should be noted that unless one is reading DU publicly they have some control over who sees it.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)It's very disappointing.
Response to nolawarlock (Reply #19)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
My hope is that the impact that Trump has had on the political process, where it's ok to swear at children.
I don't care whether they were looking at little Sally or at little Sally's mom. The fact remains, it was not appropriate.
Response to nolawarlock (Reply #31)
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nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)And have you seen my swearing my brains off? If I choose to have a sense of humor about a candidate I don't like, that's hardly the same as swearing at little Dick and Jane.
Response to nolawarlock (Reply #35)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)And my opinions are my own. And I doubt very much that the "mega church moms" are the type I've dealt with. I'm usually looking at strip mall storefront church missionaries belching forth hellfire and brimstone at anyone who walks by. What I wouldn't give to be interact with someone from one of those mega-churches. At least I might get some free swag.
and people keep saying these weren't Bernie supporters yet I see not only a giant Bernie banner, but signs about "the transcripts," as though that's an issue anyone but Bernie supporters care about.
So much is said here about honesty. Why can't believe just tell the truth that this was orchestrated by the Bernie campaign?
Response to nolawarlock (Reply #38)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)Come on. And as for logic, logic puzzles are an occasional hobby of mine. But it doesn't take a stellar logician to realize what's really driving all that. Now that Bernie's on the verge of losing (and that's putting it nicely because I think he's already lost), he's pulling out all the stops.
Response to nolawarlock (Reply #43)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Using little children who probably have no idea about any of these policies to bellow over the microphone is just plain trashy. Reminds me of the street preachers that use children to tell everyone walking by how they're sinners that are going to burn in hell. Who does that to their children?
Response to nolawarlock (Reply #39)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)... because I rarely say anything without a tinge of snark. But it really boils down to this ... do you get what you want or do you not get what you want? I nearly always get what I want and always have. I have a keen understanding of when I can be all snark and bluster, and when I have to kiss a little ass. It's all about knowing what you can get away with. And swearing at children is just never going to play well and that's exactly what most people are taking away from this.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Of course you try to get the other side to vote for you and with Trumps terrible remarks about women we may just do it.
Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #47)
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Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)And they helped Bush steal the election. Of course the pure and the wealthy assured everyone it was for the best as they lived their usual high life and the rest of got to lose jobs and homes in 08.
Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #55)
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TimPlo
(443 posts)That said "yes those black people are just too stupid to vote" So not even going to bother giving a response to someone that says that and is trying to talk about protesting others.
JI7
(89,244 posts)dsc
(52,155 posts)but you sure left out a whole lot of context. I posted it in response to someone who literally posted an article calling for literacy tests of VA voters, and the rest of the south, because they voted for Hillary. The majority of those voters were black. Nice smear though.
oasis
(49,365 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)It's disgusting.
jillan
(39,451 posts)anybody we want.