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hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:10 AM May 2016

It seems to me that Hillary is done

Paying lip service to the left. The hard shift rightward is upon her campaign, and IMHO a wee bit premature.

Good now the remaining primary voters will see the glorious truth of who she is, no matter what spiffy leather jacket she wears on Face the Nation.

145 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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It seems to me that Hillary is done (Original Post) hootinholler May 2016 OP
Evidence to support your first point? Renew Deal May 2016 #1
When she stops being so passionate about gun control, you'll know Armstead May 2016 #5
So there is no evidence. nt puffy socks May 2016 #78
Well... kaleckim May 2016 #135
Trump as Unifier: Are Hillary Clinton and Neoconservatives Ready to Join Forces? w4rma May 2016 #7
That doesn't support the OP Renew Deal May 2016 #9
Hillary forces target Bush donors; Their message to moderate Republicans: She represents your values w4rma May 2016 #12
Every democrat represents "values" better than any republican Buzz cook May 2016 #122
Compared to conservative Republicans xmas74 May 2016 #138
Yep. The sleazy Neo-Cons are backing the Former First Lady... NewImproved Deal May 2016 #13
Yeah because Bernie is going to really end wars. JaneyVee May 2016 #16
Get real. No one is claiming to end war. It's what the US does best. libdem4life May 2016 #22
Reaching out to the Bush big money donors. Duckhunter935 May 2016 #11
Bring TP. JoePhilly May 2016 #62
Funny you should ask. 99th_Monkey May 2016 #84
Seems to me you are wrong. riversedge May 2016 #2
Seems to me hootinholler May 2016 #8
Seems to me rock May 2016 #67
Careful, it's against the ToS to advocate voting against Democrats Scootaloo May 2016 #98
OK, but it's you rock May 2016 #102
You said "Now let's vote LEFT!" Scootaloo May 2016 #105
That's why I put LEFT in all caps rock May 2016 #113
Which is my point Scootaloo May 2016 #119
So, Scootaloo rock May 2016 #125
I try to not take DU too seriously Scootaloo May 2016 #127
You're more than welcome to your opinion rock May 2016 #129
Well, I thank you for your permission to have an opinion... Scootaloo May 2016 #132
There is nothing what so ever kaleckim May 2016 #136
If Hillary is our candidate, who's the Democrat? AgerolanAmerican May 2016 #121
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #3
So the question is will DU prop up a Neocon/ Republicon lite Kittycat May 2016 #15
Man, it's sure "jury lottery" time this morning. Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #21
Touched a nerve. It's hard to come to terms with the mirror Kittycat May 2016 #23
Nailed it! Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #28
I do like the leather, though. HassleCat May 2016 #4
That would be cool. kstewart33 May 2016 #27
Because the previous predictions from Sanders supporters have worked out so well, Huh ? LOL Trust Buster May 2016 #6
They've been better than the conservaDem Hillary supporters' predictions. BillZBubb May 2016 #36
Perhaps, some underestimated the extent of the right-wing infestation of the Dem Party. Broward May 2016 #45
The election will be a choice between a Nixon-style Republican The Velveteen Ocelot May 2016 #10
If Nixon was running in this election XemaSab May 2016 #38
. hrmjustin May 2016 #14
Maybe you should get water away from the fracked gasholes. hootinholler May 2016 #17
Fortunately we don't have fracking in NY. hrmjustin May 2016 #24
You will SwampG8r May 2016 #81
Nope. hrmjustin May 2016 #82
Why? libdem4life May 2016 #86
Cuomo said no. There is too much opposition to Fracking in NY. hrmjustin May 2016 #87
OK...I guess they just let the poor states sink into the ground. libdem4life May 2016 #91
The NY goverment has nothing to do with other state politics. hrmjustin May 2016 #93
With a little help from the former Senator from New York. Ironic, isn't it? libdem4life May 2016 #96
You know as goid as I do an federal ban on fracking will never happen. hrmjustin May 2016 #97
Well neither will Health Care for all, but one has to start and only libdem4life May 2016 #108
Raise your voice and vote. hrmjustin May 2016 #109
Oh, Please. libdem4life May 2016 #110
Oh? hrmjustin May 2016 #112
But isn't Bernie going to sign an executive order ending fracking? I have heard that.... bettyellen May 2016 #99
He will just speak and all will be well. hrmjustin May 2016 #100
funny when states decide other things, he is loathe to argue with them. gay marriage.... bettyellen May 2016 #106
Indeed. Mr. Perfect is not perfect. hrmjustin May 2016 #111
My breaking point was "how perfect" he is on reproductive rights..... bettyellen May 2016 #114
A lot of revisionist history from his fans. hrmjustin May 2016 #116
That bit was just going too far. She replied to a hypothetical question about a constitutional bettyellen May 2016 #120
The gist of your bogus characterization is... yallerdawg May 2016 #18
What shift? She's saying what she's always said, just without mentioning Bernie as much. CrowCityDem May 2016 #19
I think it's the talking to Jeb Bush and Co that bothers us. Of course, libdem4life May 2016 #26
RE: Palling around CrowCityDem May 2016 #32
Bernie does it by being honest and telling them how he disagrees. Clinton tells them she agrees with w4rma May 2016 #39
I'm sure R's love Hillary's tax increases, ACA embrace, minimum wage increase, etc. CrowCityDem May 2016 #41
None of which she'll pass through a Republican Congress. But, she'll pass these things. w4rma May 2016 #46
Wait ... where are the "socialist/communist" pejoratives? libdem4life May 2016 #48
On foreign policy, he's not. He's supported plenty of military intervention he won't mention. CrowCityDem May 2016 #49
So just half socialist/communist? What a crock. libdem4life May 2016 #54
Those are your words, not mine. CrowCityDem May 2016 #56
So you weren't in on the Cluster Attack of Socialist/Communist. libdem4life May 2016 #63
All I'm saying is you brought up socialism/communism in this thread, not me. CrowCityDem May 2016 #68
Yes, of course I did. It's relevant. I didn't expect anyone with an H libdem4life May 2016 #72
It's utterly disingenuous... CrowCityDem May 2016 #73
Oh my, "inject something..." I forgot, some think this is a discussion libdem4life May 2016 #75
I made comments, then you injected communism into the discussion... CrowCityDem May 2016 #77
Think maybe you've got the wrong poster here...I mentioned the Group Speak libdem4life May 2016 #88
That's Really Reaching...when she's yes, Palling Around with their Donors libdem4life May 2016 #42
If R;s want to jump on the Democratic train, I say welcome. Now we're an even bigger majority. CrowCityDem May 2016 #47
Uh, not Rs. Rs with big donors. You know, those folk who do not "give" libdem4life May 2016 #57
Remember when Bernie crowed about not taking speaking fees, though it would have been illegal to? CrowCityDem May 2016 #58
Your point??? libdem4life May 2016 #85
Plague-infested parasites? Overreact much? Context fail. libdem4life May 2016 #131
I have noticed, even in this thread, how -none May 2016 #130
She's moved on from Bernie. kstewart33 May 2016 #29
Yes...that's why she's going to Republicans for financial help. libdem4life May 2016 #43
At this point, I don't care who she goes to for $$$ help. kstewart33 May 2016 #50
Of course you don't. libdem4life May 2016 #53
You're right. At this point, I don't care. kstewart33 May 2016 #61
I'm shaking in my boots at the thought of either as president. Fawke Em May 2016 #76
Fawke, if the world wanted Bernie, he wouldn't be some 3 million votes behind. kstewart33 May 2016 #79
We all have our bubbles. kstewart33 May 2016 #64
Gosh, how surprising! Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #59
She can now pander to Repubs. Broward May 2016 #83
Whatever it takes to beat Trump. nt kstewart33 May 2016 #137
"Centrist" Democrats like Hillary are doing the job regular Republicans used to do Triana May 2016 #20
Yes, watch what I do before you listen to what I say or libdem4life May 2016 #31
Yep. BillZBubb May 2016 #37
You can't use history as an etched-in-stone benchmark. CrowCityDem May 2016 #44
No she's not. She has labeled herself a Centrist. She Is Not a Progressive. libdem4life May 2016 #51
The centrist Clinton's did things azurnoir May 2016 #65
That's the whole point really. DLCers can do by stealth what Republicans can't do overtly Triana May 2016 #89
Bullshit-That old smear-Hillary was one of the most liberal Senators in Congress redstateblues May 2016 #115
Look who was the #1 most liberal. Triana May 2016 #140
of course! hello TPP, Keystone XL, Privatized Social Security, ETC amborin May 2016 #25
Even though we all realize this is a pointless bash and trash; why the sexism??? Sancho May 2016 #30
I believe it's Bernie's rumpled clothing and department store suit...for starters. libdem4life May 2016 #33
Or his unruly hair. How sexy... er sexist. Ed Suspicious May 2016 #70
...and that, as well. Even more than the clothes. In fact, it was mentioned libdem4life May 2016 #74
Pointing out that a woman or a POC wouldn't be taken seriously if they ran for all american girl May 2016 #143
No big shift ongoing just more speculation of those not accepting reality beachbumbob May 2016 #34
Yep ... Just a bunch of crazy Sanders supporters Trajan May 2016 #124
Bookmarked for later lunamagica May 2016 #35
No. Hillary's mostly very solidly liberal and the party's liberal, Hortensis May 2016 #40
Liberal? Liberal? Liberal? Not. libdem4life May 2016 #69
Bernie isn't a liberal by personality, he's a Hortensis May 2016 #80
Hillary isn't a liberal by personality. She's a Republican-Lite. libdem4life May 2016 #90
Bernie's radical by personality. As most of us know Hortensis May 2016 #94
Um, Hillary is Republican and Conservative by personality. Or are the libdem4life May 2016 #101
No, no 4-paragraph rants needed. Hortensis May 2016 #104
Bullshit-That old smear-Hillary was one of the most liberal Senators in Congress redstateblues May 2016 #117
You did not read carefully. Thus, I just consider the source. libdem4life May 2016 #123
If Hillary is so "liberal", then what sort of "liberal" things is Wall Street paying her to do? (nt) w4rma May 2016 #142
It seems to me you havent give her a chance. DCBob May 2016 #52
Yes, the press has ignored her. Not. Well, in a way they have. They haven't asked libdem4life May 2016 #71
She has Oscar de la Renta on speed dial. CentralCoaster May 2016 #55
Hillary Clinton is the most qualified candidate in the field Gothmog May 2016 #60
Qualified to fuck us over, that's for sure. highprincipleswork May 2016 #126
The timing is good. HassleCat May 2016 #66
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2016 #92
Timing premature you say? NO, the timing is perfect, for Bernie. Let her show who she really is pdsimdars May 2016 #95
bernie is losing by 3 million votes and 300 delegates redstateblues May 2016 #118
I will put it this way: I am done with her. nt silvershadow May 2016 #103
I agree. Then he doesn't have to campaign in the upcoming primary states, right DLCWIdem May 2016 #107
When will Hillary be done k8conant May 2016 #128
132 replies and I only see 24 of them. Wow, Hillary's people must be out in droves today. I litlbilly May 2016 #133
They have their Old Codger May 2016 #141
This message was self-deleted by its author SouthernDemLinda May 2016 #134
Hers is a backward looking politics. Like him or not, Bernie's perspective is the future Indpndntfrombirth May 2016 #139
Checks date of original post. Tommy_Carcetti May 2016 #144
Premature rightward sprint, but like a fish out of water she NorthCarolina May 2016 #145

kaleckim

(651 posts)
135. Well...
Sun May 8, 2016, 05:15 PM
May 2016

to anyone paying attention, she was only paying lip service to begin with. You are asking for evidence that the lip service has ended, and she basically said it during the town hall. She is also now reaching out to Bush's Wall Street backers and letting them know that she "shares their values" (well duh). She never stopped doing fundraisers with corporate lobbyists, is calling for a more "muscular foreign policy" (and seems keen on citing Kissinger's approval) and has a hawkish foreign policy record, has a center-right record on economic issues and has supported policies since she entered politics that have benefited her largest donors (banks and corporate interests), etc. The evidence is objective reality, and if you think that her record places her on the left regarding economic issues or institutional power, then you probably don't value objective reality much anyway.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
7. Trump as Unifier: Are Hillary Clinton and Neoconservatives Ready to Join Forces?
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:14 AM
May 2016

'Neocon elites are probably the likeliest faction to defect to Clinton, and what they'd want is blood-curdling aggressiveness overseas and Benjamin Netanyahu in charge of Middle East policy.'

On Wednesday, the Clinton campaign at least hinted at this approach by posting a list of people it described as "prominent activists, journalists and elected officials" in the Republican Party who have decided to reject Trump, quoting some who explicitly said they would vote for Clinton if she ends up as the Democratic nominee. A verbatim sampling from the list (which was further updated by the campaign on Thursday) follows:

• Lifelong Republican, foreign policy expert Max Boot: “ would be vastly preferable to Trump.’”

• Billionaire Bush-backer Mike Fernandez: “If I have a choice — and you can put it in bold — if I have a choice between Trump and Hillary Clinton, I’m choosing Hillary.”

• Elliott Abrams, former foreign policy advisor for Presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush: “won’t be voting for Trump”

According to journalist and political commentator Sam Sacks, who spoke with D.C.-based Sputnik Radio about the same dynamic on Thursday, observers can expect to "see a lot of the neoconservatives, people who were, ironically, very close in the George W. Bush administration... coming home and supporting Clinton, who has a foreign policy record that hews pretty neoconservative."

Clinton probably won't be able to get meaningful numbers of Republican defectors. She is absolutely loathed among the Republican base and has been for years and years. Reuters says 84 percent of Republicans have an unfavorable view of Clinton, CNN has them at 85 percent. While she might get a few prominent neocons like Max Boot or Robert Kagan, they won't bring anyone over with them. And those few aside, the vast majority of the party will accommodate themselves to Trump eventually. It's happening already.

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/05/05/trump-unifier-are-hillary-clinton-and-neoconservatives-ready-join-forces

Sanders was referring to a Thursday Politico report that claimed Clinton’s supporters have targeted Bush family donors for funding, trying to convince them she represents their values better than presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump.

“By the way, as I understand it, is now reaching out to Jeb Bush’s fundraisers in order to raise money from them, and that really casts a doubt on the parts of millions of Americans,” said Sanders, who currently trails Clinton in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination.

“Are you really going to stand up for the middle and working class when you’re collecting millions from Jeb Bush supporters?”
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/279049-sanders-hits-clinton-for-soliciting-republican-donors

Buzz cook

(2,470 posts)
122. Every democrat represents "values" better than any republican
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:53 PM
May 2016

Name a claimed republican value and liberalism acheaves the results better than conservatism.

I'm surprised you don't know that.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
138. Compared to conservative Republicans
Sun May 8, 2016, 06:52 PM
May 2016

She does represent their values. I know some moderate Republicans-fiscal conservative but will grudgingly pay new taxes if it's proven that it'll save in the long run. They tend to be a bit more center left on social issues such as abortion.

The moderates I know ( most identify as GOP) hated the candidates this go around. It's not a bad play for her to say that they might not like everything she'd do but that there is more in common with her than with what the GOP has become.

 

NewImproved Deal

(534 posts)
13. Yep. The sleazy Neo-Cons are backing the Former First Lady...
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:19 AM
May 2016

A vote for the Clinton Machine is a vote for War...

[link:|

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
16. Yeah because Bernie is going to really end wars.
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:26 AM
May 2016

Despite the fact he voted for more wars and war funding than any candidate running on both sides, and despite the fact he said he would continue the drone program. The myth of Bernie Sanders has overtaken the actual Bernue Sanders.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
22. Get real. No one is claiming to end war. It's what the US does best.
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:34 AM
May 2016

Maybe it's more like who will jump in with both feet and who would at least take a couple of days, maybe make some calls, have some meetings before putting your children or grandchildren out to pound sand.

rock

(13,218 posts)
102. OK, but it's you
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:25 PM
May 2016

Who's implying the BSers are voting against Dems (which incidentally is not that surprising).

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
105. You said "Now let's vote LEFT!"
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:29 PM
May 2016

As things stand now, voting left would require voting for non-Democrats, on most ballots.

rock

(13,218 posts)
113. That's why I put LEFT in all caps
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:39 PM
May 2016

So the perspicacious among us would know I mean the Left (political side) and not left (the relative direction/side).

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
119. Which is my point
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:49 PM
May 2016

The Democratic Party is not a left-wing party. It's a center-right party. It could only be mistaken as a "left-wing" party if your basis of comparison is the other major party, the far-right (currently becoming Fascist) Republican party.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
127. I try to not take DU too seriously
Sun May 8, 2016, 03:45 PM
May 2016

Honestly though. The Democratic Party is not a leftist party. Never has been, and certainly isn't today.

The party is "to the left of the Republicans" but that is a very different thing from being "left"

rock

(13,218 posts)
129. You're more than welcome to your opinion
Sun May 8, 2016, 03:48 PM
May 2016

But we do not agree, at least on that point. It really was nice conversing with you. Thanks.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
132. Well, I thank you for your permission to have an opinion...
Sun May 8, 2016, 04:16 PM
May 2016

But it's not a matter of opinion, but of political science fact. The left / right political divide is not dependent on relative perspective. That is, your being to the left of, say, Paul Ryan does not necessarily make you "part of the left."

kaleckim

(651 posts)
136. There is nothing what so ever
Sun May 8, 2016, 05:19 PM
May 2016

that the Democrats record in the last few decades places them on the left. Every formerly center-left party in the developed world has moved to the right, the Democrats are no exception, and long ago sold the store to corporate interests. Honestly, it seems that people have forgotten what it means to be on the left. Sanders, who is considered a far leftist, is nothing more than a mainstream New Deal Democrat, nothing more. People in the corporate press and the two corrupt parties that treat him as some wild eyed radical just help to prove how far to the right we've gone. Anyone denying this is ignorant to the facts, lying to others or themselves.

Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Kittycat

(10,493 posts)
15. So the question is will DU prop up a Neocon/ Republicon lite
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:23 AM
May 2016

Candidate draped in a democratic cloak? I want our cape back. And burn the damn ThirdWay tent down like we did fuxking DLC years ago.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
21. Man, it's sure "jury lottery" time this morning.
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:33 AM
May 2016

Multiple anti-Hillary posts that don't remotely violate ToS getting hidden..

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
28. Nailed it!
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:39 AM
May 2016

You can almost hear the nervous laughter...kinda like their candidate does when called out.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
36. They've been better than the conservaDem Hillary supporters' predictions.
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:48 AM
May 2016

Bernie was supposed to be out of the race after Iowa. Nope. After New Hampshire. Nope. After Super Tuesday. Nope. After Michigan. Nope. After New York. Nope.

She's turning right, back to her normal rightist, corporatist positions. But, that should make you happy.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,274 posts)
10. The election will be a choice between a Nixon-style Republican
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:16 AM
May 2016

and an outright fascist. Fuck the progressives, right?

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
17. Maybe you should get water away from the fracked gasholes.
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:29 AM
May 2016


It might taste better and is less inflammable.
 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
93. The NY goverment has nothing to do with other state politics.
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:14 PM
May 2016

The states will havr to ban it on their own.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
96. With a little help from the former Senator from New York. Ironic, isn't it?
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:17 PM
May 2016

It is a national political position.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
108. Well neither will Health Care for all, but one has to start and only
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:35 PM
May 2016

someone who believes in it can/will begin the process.

Kind of like getting obscene corporate donations out of politics or other unpopular social proposals. Won't happen right away, but some of us still believe in Yes, We Can when our leaders lead. If our leaders say, No, We Can't, well...you get the idea.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
99. But isn't Bernie going to sign an executive order ending fracking? I have heard that....
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:20 PM
May 2016

seriously the shit people believe is astounding.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
106. funny when states decide other things, he is loathe to argue with them. gay marriage....
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:32 PM
May 2016

closing clinics, etc. No big as promises regarding that shit. Nope.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
114. My breaking point was "how perfect" he is on reproductive rights.....
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:44 PM
May 2016

amazing how doing jack shit except saying "me too" gets such applause here. Doing the actual work to preserve our rights meant nothing. Mind glowingly stupid, that gambit. It was just too much for me.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
120. That bit was just going too far. She replied to a hypothetical question about a constitutional
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:50 PM
May 2016

amendment.... anyone repeating that bullshit has no idea how very hypothetical that was. Is Bernie pushing for a constitutional amendment with no restrictions on women? Nope, he knows it would destroy him. Yet his supporters have never considered any of this. What bullshit. They know better, or should.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
19. What shift? She's saying what she's always said, just without mentioning Bernie as much.
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:32 AM
May 2016

Oh wait, that's the problem, isn't it? She isn't bothering to talk about Bernie, so you think she's a Republican.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
26. I think it's the talking to Jeb Bush and Co that bothers us. Of course,
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:38 AM
May 2016

we're not really surprised. It's just taking off the thin veneer of the Third Way a bit prematurely as a bridge over to the Republican side.

So, I take it you are just fine with her "palling around with Republicans" for more fame and fortune (and money)?

Good lord, based on DU rules, we'll have to be VERY careful talking about Republicans who our front runner is consorting with.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
32. RE: Palling around
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:45 AM
May 2016

No, I don't have a problem with anyone 'palling around' with Republicans. They're political opponents, not plague-infected parasites who can't breathe the same air as us. There's nothing wrong with having friends on the other side of the aisle. In fact, since governing takes compromise, it's probably a good thing.

Besides, Bernie has boasted that he can attract Republican support. Is the problem just that Hillary has actually done it, while Bernie is just a theory right now?

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
39. Bernie does it by being honest and telling them how he disagrees. Clinton tells them she agrees with
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:52 AM
May 2016

them.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
41. I'm sure R's love Hillary's tax increases, ACA embrace, minimum wage increase, etc.
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:56 AM
May 2016

And if you're going to point to foreign policy, I'll grant you that Hillary is slightly less to the left than Bernie, but let's keep in mind that Bernie still supports drone strikes, gigantic military funding, and even supported the removal of Saddam Hussein as US policy. He is not as far left as he has been claiming.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
48. Wait ... where are the "socialist/communist" pejoratives?
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:02 PM
May 2016

Now, he is "not as far left as he has been claiming?" Must be Pretzel Time.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
63. So you weren't in on the Cluster Attack of Socialist/Communist.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:23 PM
May 2016

Bull. That was supposed to sink him, you do remember that. No one will vote for a Socialist. But then, you knew that. And no, they weren't my words. I'm fine with Democratic Socialist, as apparently are millions more.

Now we have to look at the shift to Republican money grubbing. But seems that doesn't bother those in The Bubble. The question is who and how much will she owe them and how many of our Democratic (big D) Issues will fall beside the wayside. No need to answer...it's rhetorical, but true.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
73. It's utterly disingenuous...
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:36 PM
May 2016

for you to inject something into the conversation, and then use that against me. It doesn't make me look bad, it makes you look bad for having to resort to making stuff up to continue your side of the conversation.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
75. Oh my, "inject something..." I forgot, some think this is a discussion
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:40 PM
May 2016

board, not an outlet for declarations. My bad.

But please, help me out with what I made up as I "injected" myself into the conversation.

I'd repeat your title, but it would be, well, repetitive.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
77. I made comments, then you injected communism into the discussion...
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:47 PM
May 2016

trying to paint me as a crazy person smearing Bernie here, there, and everywhere. I did no such thing, and you know it.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
88. Think maybe you've got the wrong poster here...I mentioned the Group Speak
Sun May 8, 2016, 01:57 PM
May 2016

in the beginning, and it wasn't considered crazy then. Now, well apparently it does.

Sorry, I don't go through posters posts...don't have time. But all the ruckus in the beginning sported big Red Hs, so.....

Nor do I think or even infer you're a crazy person smearing bernie, here, there and everywhere. If you got that from my opinion I expressed, well sobeit.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
42. That's Really Reaching...when she's yes, Palling Around with their Donors
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:56 AM
May 2016

and making nice with the likes of Jeb Bush and George Will. Friends?

Attracting support and joining forces monetarily...just a tad bit of difference. That always goes on. But this display of sheer arrogance? They aren't supporting each other for their values...other than the green ones.

I mean, we all knew she would do it...and of course, were roundly criticized for the audacity...but she feels she can get away with it now as she feels she has the nomination locked up.

She feels right comfy with Republicans.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
57. Uh, not Rs. Rs with big donors. You know, those folk who do not "give"
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:17 PM
May 2016

unless they "get". It's about who she "owes". No transcripts, either, from a room full of her donors.

This is not about voters. It's about who she is going to owe...other than all the big banks...if, unfortunately, she can claw her way to President.

Remember when she said she'd release transcripts when everyone else did. Problem was, no one else spoke privately to a room full of bankers. Did she release them? Still waiting. Just another Clinton Crass Political Shuffle.

-none

(1,884 posts)
130. I have noticed, even in this thread, how
Sun May 8, 2016, 04:04 PM
May 2016

the Hillary supporters don't have a problem with a supposed Left-wing Democrat, not quite as far Left as Bernie though, soliciting donations from the very people whose political philosophies Democrats are supposed the be campaigning against.

When is it going to be a violation of DU rules to be supporting Hillary???
Never mind, I already know the answer to that. Tums anyone?

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
50. At this point, I don't care who she goes to for $$$ help.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:07 PM
May 2016

As long as she beats Trump.

There are far greater concerns at hand than taking shots at Hillary about her campaign fundraising.

For everyone's good, we must beat Trump.

The large majority of the public are realizing it. Even top Republicans realize it.

Maybe it's time that Bernie's supporters realize it. So much is at stake here.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
53. Of course you don't.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:11 PM
May 2016

But do you care who she owes? I mean in political favors?

Alas, The Bubble is, well, The Bubble.

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
61. You're right. At this point, I don't care.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:22 PM
May 2016

And I'd imagine that our allies throughout the world don't care either.

Because they're shaking in their boots at the prospect of a Trump presidency. So am I.

And so should you.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
76. I'm shaking in my boots at the thought of either as president.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:42 PM
May 2016

He's an idiot and she never saw a war she didn't like.

The world wants Bernie, btw.

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
79. Fawke, if the world wanted Bernie, he wouldn't be some 3 million votes behind.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:51 PM
May 2016

I respect your support for Bernie, but the greater priority for the entire country now is to defeat Trump.

Trump says that dropping a nuclear bomb in the Middle East and/or Europe is an option. He wants to deport all illegal immigrants. He thinks women are pigs. And so much more.

Bernie is fading away now (I didn't see him listed on any of the Sunday AM political shows, which is a first). All media eyes are on Trump. And Hillary, his foe.

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
64. We all have our bubbles.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:24 PM
May 2016

I'm working in Hillary's bubble. I know my priorities.

Bernie's time is done.

All eyes are on Trump now. As they should be.

 

Triana

(22,666 posts)
20. "Centrist" Democrats like Hillary are doing the job regular Republicans used to do
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:32 AM
May 2016

Most of the space left by the Republican Party in their shift to off-the-charts RightWingDominionistCrazyLand is vacant.

The "Democratic" party has in the past 30-40 years filled the void with it's DLC 'Centrist' types which I've said before are just 1960s (at best) Republicans.

That's what Hillary is.

She can call herself whatever she wants. Ideologically, she's a Republican.

Bernie can call himself whatever he wants. Ideologically, HE is the only DEMOCRAT in the race.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
31. Yes, watch what I do before you listen to what I say or
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:44 AM
May 2016

what I conveniently label myself. We've watched for 25 years.

How some come up with her as the Democratic standard bearer is astonishing. But then again, she's a Clinton v.2 and it's pretty common knowledge of their copious background smear bait, which she used to her benefit.

Wonder why no Establishment Democrat would run? See last sentence.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
44. You can't use history as an etched-in-stone benchmark.
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:59 AM
May 2016

The fact that the entire party might be a bit less to the left does not mean that a solidly left-leaning Democrat today is really a Republican. Republicans have shifted so far to the right that there is truly no comparison.

It would be unfair to say that Republicans are the better party for minorities, since Lincoln was one, and it's unfair to say that today's Democrats aren't Democrats based on what the part was seventy years ago. We live in the here and now, and given where the parties are, Hillary is most definitely a progressive Democrat.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
51. No she's not. She has labeled herself a Centrist. She Is Not a Progressive.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:08 PM
May 2016

But then again, how would anyone really know. She changes from day to day. Sorry, rethinks, listens, evolves, sends out Brock, hides from the press playing Where Is Hillary? We know...she's out getting more money, now from the Republicans, so she won't be glowing in the light of the press for awhile.

She may be Progressive on a couple of issues, but tomorrow isn't here yet, so...there's that. Third Way Progressive. LOL. She's now Pretzeling.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
65. The centrist Clinton's did things
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:26 PM
May 2016

that the Republicans could only dream of when she was co-Presidenting

 

Triana

(22,666 posts)
89. That's the whole point really. DLCers can do by stealth what Republicans can't do overtly
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:01 PM
May 2016

I think that is their function: to pander to the left and govern right so as to fool the masses into thinking they're 'for you' or 'for us' when they're really for the wealthy, Wall St. and Corps.

Overtly, they're Dems. Covertly, they're really Republicans.

Republicans will SAY they're going to cut social security and people won't support that.

Today's 'centrist Democrats' can say they're NOT going to cut social security, but then cut it, and people will support that.

Pfft.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
115. Bullshit-That old smear-Hillary was one of the most liberal Senators in Congress
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:44 PM
May 2016

It's BSS fave ad hom. Call anyone you disagree with a Republican

 

Triana

(22,666 posts)
140. Look who was the #1 most liberal.
Sun May 8, 2016, 07:17 PM
May 2016

Thaaat's right: SANDERS: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280109868

And this article uses a bit more accurate methodology to unpack this "Hillary was the 11th most liberal Senator" meme (and once again, look who's at #1).

EXCERPT:

Relative to her time, Hillary Clinton is only 19% more liberal than the average Democrat from the 110th. When compared to her modern-day colleagues of the 113th, she’s more liberal than just 12% of them. Again — removing Blue Dogs and moderates would drastically reduce Clinton’s numbers here, bringing her almost to the center.



Clinton’s liberality is marked by red, while the party average is marked by green.

Sounds a lot less impressive than the “11th most liberal senator,” doesn’t it? Seems like you could call her a moderate Democrat.

In total, there are 18 senators below Clinton, but above the party average. That’s only an 8% difference, meaning that Clinton really isn’t that much different than the 18 members that separate her from the average.



Sancho

(9,065 posts)
30. Even though we all realize this is a pointless bash and trash; why the sexism???
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:41 AM
May 2016

How many times have you commented on Bernie's matching tie? Bernie's cute brown shoes?

no matter what spiffy leather jacket


What's the point with the description of
Hillary's glorious truth of who she is
?

This OP is condescending and sexist - just like Trump (and sometimes Bernie).

Not surprising that we're seeing a bunch of new desperation OPs from losing Blemmings. There are also some last shots by paid operatives and trolls. It's hard to know motivations. Regardless, the posts reveal the values and personality of the posters!

This is a case in point. Not worth an alert, even though it should be hidden.
 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
74. ...and that, as well. Even more than the clothes. In fact, it was mentioned
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:36 PM
May 2016

so often, that we now recognize it as a sort of crown of honor.

all american girl

(1,788 posts)
143. Pointing out that a woman or a POC wouldn't be taken seriously if they ran for
Mon May 9, 2016, 09:15 AM
May 2016

president looking like Bernie did in the beginning is pointing out the the double standard in our society. A white guy can look like your favorite rumpled professor, but no way in hell could any woman or POC.

 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
124. Yep ... Just a bunch of crazy Sanders supporters
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:59 PM
May 2016

Hoping for a better world for their children ....

How did I miss you? ... Click

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
40. No. Hillary's mostly very solidly liberal and the party's liberal,
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:53 AM
May 2016

but both parties now NEED to put additional focus on convincing moderate blue-collar workers and a moderates from a couple other groups my mind's blanked on for the moment to vote for them. Both candidates will need as many votes as possible from these groups in order to win the election. We have to give them some reason to vote Democrat, and that's just the way it is.

There would be enough liberals and far-lefters to put many of our people in office, IF they voted in greater percentages, but too many just don't bother.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
69. Liberal? Liberal? Liberal? Not.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:28 PM
May 2016

As to the last paragraph, there's a reason "they" don't vote. Not enough clothespins any more for some. Finally we get a real Liberal candidate, and the press won't cover him, and the Democratic Establishment has already crowned it's Third Way Republican-Lite candidate.

You need to give real Democrats a reason...but for HRC, it's a much shorter and familiar hop over to the Republicans and their money. Now she not only owes the Banking Cartel, but the Republican Donors. That's a winning ticket for many here, it seems.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
80. Bernie isn't a liberal by personality, he's a
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:59 PM
May 2016

left-wing radical by personality. Very different. He's not in the least ashamed of it, either, just doesn't keep hitting it because it's not a big help politically. But you see it in his behavior and his often unconcealed contempt for the liberals around him in Washington and their policies. Liberal and radical are personality types, not just ideological orientations.

As for giving "real Democrats a reason," every one of us has tremendous reason to go vote, and a tremendous duty to do so. There should never be a need for any of us to be "given" reason instead of finding it for ourselves or a need to be coaxed, begged, bribed, or hogtied and delivered to the polling place. That's for children and low-functioning adults.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
90. Hillary isn't a liberal by personality. She's a Republican-Lite.
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:08 PM
May 2016

what of his speeches, etc. would be left-wing radical? Please be specific.

But since your calling out Bernie his speeches and positions have been pretty darn consistent for decades. Vermont is in the United States and he's served consistently for decades. I haven't been in Washington lately.

Maybe he has "evolved". Heck, we were told Hillary had "evolved" until she ran over to the Republicans as soon as she had grasp on the nomination. Many of us thought she might wait a bit longer, but where there's money, time is of the essence.

And the last paragraph...well that's WAY OFF target and subject and quite the sanctimonious lecture. Oh yeah, and really uncalled for on DU.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
94. Bernie's radical by personality. As most of us know
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:15 PM
May 2016

perfectly well, he's voted with Democrats, most of them liberal, over 95% of the time for a quarter century. But we know he's radical by personality by his behavior, including his extreme righteousness, his vast intolerance of all who do not share his views, and his rejection of all political solutions that differ from his. These are classic.

Liberal personality is classically characterized by openness to new ideas, acceptance of those who are different, and and willingness to cooperate with others.

Thus, although there is great overlap in their goals and Hillary could probably accept most of his means to achieve them if they were possible/practicable, Bernie refuses to accept any of her means to achieve them even if they are achievable and would advance us toward his goals.

A willingness to accept complete failure rather than compromise is characteristic of radicals. It is not of liberals, and thank goodness for that.

Just tremendously different.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
101. Um, Hillary is Republican and Conservative by personality. Or are the
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:24 PM
May 2016

rules different for her. No need to answer that. As we speak, she's "caucusing" with the Republicans. Doesn't take a 4 paragraph rant to grasp that.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
117. Bullshit-That old smear-Hillary was one of the most liberal Senators in Congress
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:47 PM
May 2016

Call anyone that disagrees with you a Republican-must march in lockstep with Bernie or you are a Republican.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
142. If Hillary is so "liberal", then what sort of "liberal" things is Wall Street paying her to do? (nt)
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:24 PM
May 2016
 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
71. Yes, the press has ignored her. Not. Well, in a way they have. They haven't asked
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:32 PM
May 2016

questions that are pertinent...just Hillary worship. Bernie got called a Socialist/Communist out of the gate, and they did not use his term Democratic Socialist unless it was derision.

Apparently, there wasn't a term that described Hillary (other than a Clinton...which means whatever they want it to mean at the current time) because she was too busy evolving. Well, now we see what she's evolved to. No big surprise to many of us.

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
60. Hillary Clinton is the most qualified candidate in the field
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:22 PM
May 2016

She will be the nominee. The math is the math

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
66. The timing is good.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:26 PM
May 2016

She needs to run to the right as soon as possible, and she has the nomination in the bag. This is just the beginning. Once Trump gets to the left of her on a couple issues, anything can happen. Flag burning? Abortion? War on drugs?

Response to hootinholler (Original post)

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
95. Timing premature you say? NO, the timing is perfect, for Bernie. Let her show who she really is
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:15 PM
May 2016

so the voters know, BEFORE it is too late. Perfect timing. Would have liked to see it a bit SOONER.
Maybe they'll believe her when she shows them her real face. They wouldn't listen to us.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
118. bernie is losing by 3 million votes and 300 delegates
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:48 PM
May 2016

and you just think we should declare him the nomination?

 

litlbilly

(2,227 posts)
133. 132 replies and I only see 24 of them. Wow, Hillary's people must be out in droves today. I
Sun May 8, 2016, 04:25 PM
May 2016

wonder what was in the their meme for the day meeting? Alert on everything and hope for lots of blocks...

Response to hootinholler (Original post)

139. Hers is a backward looking politics. Like him or not, Bernie's perspective is the future
Sun May 8, 2016, 06:53 PM
May 2016

Hillary's backwardation may yet find election in 2016. But she will find herself in the ash pile of history. The future of progressive-ism will look more like Bernie than the sad dying embers of a 1990's cronyist/identity political perspective manifest in Hillary.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
145. Premature rightward sprint, but like a fish out of water she
Mon May 9, 2016, 09:34 AM
May 2016

was probably anxious to get back to the political right element where she is most comfortable, and certainly most believable.

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