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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » It seems to me that Hilla...

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:10 AM

It seems to me that Hillary is done

Paying lip service to the left. The hard shift rightward is upon her campaign, and IMHO a wee bit premature.

Good now the remaining primary voters will see the glorious truth of who she is, no matter what spiffy leather jacket she wears on Face the Nation.

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Arrow 145 replies Author Time Post
Reply It seems to me that Hillary is done (Original post)
hootinholler May 2016 OP
Renew Deal May 2016 #1
Armstead May 2016 #5
puffy socks May 2016 #78
kaleckim May 2016 #135
w4rma May 2016 #7
Renew Deal May 2016 #9
w4rma May 2016 #12
Buzz cook May 2016 #122
xmas74 May 2016 #138
NewImproved Deal May 2016 #13
JaneyVee May 2016 #16
libdem4life May 2016 #22
Duckhunter935 May 2016 #11
JoePhilly May 2016 #62
99th_Monkey May 2016 #84
riversedge May 2016 #2
hootinholler May 2016 #8
rock May 2016 #67
Scootaloo May 2016 #98
rock May 2016 #102
Scootaloo May 2016 #105
rock May 2016 #113
Scootaloo May 2016 #119
rock May 2016 #125
Scootaloo May 2016 #127
rock May 2016 #129
Scootaloo May 2016 #132
kaleckim May 2016 #136
AgerolanAmerican May 2016 #121
Post removed May 2016 #3
Kittycat May 2016 #15
Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #21
Kittycat May 2016 #23
Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #28
HassleCat May 2016 #4
kstewart33 May 2016 #27
Trust Buster May 2016 #6
BillZBubb May 2016 #36
Broward May 2016 #45
The Velveteen Ocelot May 2016 #10
XemaSab May 2016 #38
LineReply .
hrmjustin May 2016 #14
hootinholler May 2016 #17
hrmjustin May 2016 #24
SwampG8r May 2016 #81
hrmjustin May 2016 #82
libdem4life May 2016 #86
hrmjustin May 2016 #87
libdem4life May 2016 #91
hrmjustin May 2016 #93
libdem4life May 2016 #96
hrmjustin May 2016 #97
libdem4life May 2016 #108
hrmjustin May 2016 #109
libdem4life May 2016 #110
hrmjustin May 2016 #112
bettyellen May 2016 #99
hrmjustin May 2016 #100
bettyellen May 2016 #106
hrmjustin May 2016 #111
bettyellen May 2016 #114
hrmjustin May 2016 #116
bettyellen May 2016 #120
yallerdawg May 2016 #18
CrowCityDem May 2016 #19
libdem4life May 2016 #26
CrowCityDem May 2016 #32
w4rma May 2016 #39
CrowCityDem May 2016 #41
w4rma May 2016 #46
libdem4life May 2016 #48
CrowCityDem May 2016 #49
libdem4life May 2016 #54
CrowCityDem May 2016 #56
libdem4life May 2016 #63
CrowCityDem May 2016 #68
libdem4life May 2016 #72
CrowCityDem May 2016 #73
libdem4life May 2016 #75
CrowCityDem May 2016 #77
libdem4life May 2016 #88
libdem4life May 2016 #42
CrowCityDem May 2016 #47
libdem4life May 2016 #57
CrowCityDem May 2016 #58
libdem4life May 2016 #85
libdem4life May 2016 #131
-none May 2016 #130
kstewart33 May 2016 #29
libdem4life May 2016 #43
kstewart33 May 2016 #50
libdem4life May 2016 #53
kstewart33 May 2016 #61
Fawke Em May 2016 #76
kstewart33 May 2016 #79
kstewart33 May 2016 #64
Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #59
Broward May 2016 #83
kstewart33 May 2016 #137
Triana May 2016 #20
libdem4life May 2016 #31
BillZBubb May 2016 #37
CrowCityDem May 2016 #44
libdem4life May 2016 #51
azurnoir May 2016 #65
Triana May 2016 #89
redstateblues May 2016 #115
Triana May 2016 #140
amborin May 2016 #25
Sancho May 2016 #30
libdem4life May 2016 #33
Ed Suspicious May 2016 #70
libdem4life May 2016 #74
all american girl May 2016 #143
beachbumbob May 2016 #34
Trajan May 2016 #124
lunamagica May 2016 #35
Hortensis May 2016 #40
libdem4life May 2016 #69
Hortensis May 2016 #80
libdem4life May 2016 #90
Hortensis May 2016 #94
libdem4life May 2016 #101
Hortensis May 2016 #104
redstateblues May 2016 #117
libdem4life May 2016 #123
w4rma May 2016 #142
DCBob May 2016 #52
libdem4life May 2016 #71
CentralCoaster May 2016 #55
Gothmog May 2016 #60
highprincipleswork May 2016 #126
HassleCat May 2016 #66
Name removed May 2016 #92
pdsimdars May 2016 #95
redstateblues May 2016 #118
silvershadow May 2016 #103
DLCWIdem May 2016 #107
k8conant May 2016 #128
litlbilly May 2016 #133
Old Codger May 2016 #141
SouthernDemLinda May 2016 #134
Indpndntfrombirth May 2016 #139
Tommy_Carcetti May 2016 #144
NorthCarolina May 2016 #145

Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:11 AM

1. Evidence to support your first point?

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #1)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:12 AM

5. When she stops being so passionate about gun control, you'll know

 

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Response to Armstead (Reply #5)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:49 PM

78. So there is no evidence. nt

 

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #78)

Sun May 8, 2016, 05:15 PM

135. Well...

to anyone paying attention, she was only paying lip service to begin with. You are asking for evidence that the lip service has ended, and she basically said it during the town hall. She is also now reaching out to Bush's Wall Street backers and letting them know that she "shares their values" (well duh). She never stopped doing fundraisers with corporate lobbyists, is calling for a more "muscular foreign policy" (and seems keen on citing Kissinger's approval) and has a hawkish foreign policy record, has a center-right record on economic issues and has supported policies since she entered politics that have benefited her largest donors (banks and corporate interests), etc. The evidence is objective reality, and if you think that her record places her on the left regarding economic issues or institutional power, then you probably don't value objective reality much anyway.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #1)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:14 AM

7. Trump as Unifier: Are Hillary Clinton and Neoconservatives Ready to Join Forces?

 

'Neocon elites are probably the likeliest faction to defect to Clinton, and what they'd want is blood-curdling aggressiveness overseas and Benjamin Netanyahu in charge of Middle East policy.'

On Wednesday, the Clinton campaign at least hinted at this approach by posting a list of people it described as "prominent activists, journalists and elected officials" in the Republican Party who have decided to reject Trump, quoting some who explicitly said they would vote for Clinton if she ends up as the Democratic nominee. A verbatim sampling from the list (which was further updated by the campaign on Thursday) follows:

• Lifelong Republican, foreign policy expert Max Boot: “ would be vastly preferable to Trump.’”

• Billionaire Bush-backer Mike Fernandez: “If I have a choice — and you can put it in bold — if I have a choice between Trump and Hillary Clinton, I’m choosing Hillary.”

• Elliott Abrams, former foreign policy advisor for Presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush: “won’t be voting for Trump”

According to journalist and political commentator Sam Sacks, who spoke with D.C.-based Sputnik Radio about the same dynamic on Thursday, observers can expect to "see a lot of the neoconservatives, people who were, ironically, very close in the George W. Bush administration... coming home and supporting Clinton, who has a foreign policy record that hews pretty neoconservative."

Clinton probably won't be able to get meaningful numbers of Republican defectors. She is absolutely loathed among the Republican base and has been for years and years. Reuters says 84 percent of Republicans have an unfavorable view of Clinton, CNN has them at 85 percent. While she might get a few prominent neocons like Max Boot or Robert Kagan, they won't bring anyone over with them. And those few aside, the vast majority of the party will accommodate themselves to Trump eventually. It's happening already.

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/05/05/trump-unifier-are-hillary-clinton-and-neoconservatives-ready-join-forces

Sanders was referring to a Thursday Politico report that claimed Clinton’s supporters have targeted Bush family donors for funding, trying to convince them she represents their values better than presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump.

“By the way, as I understand it, is now reaching out to Jeb Bush’s fundraisers in order to raise money from them, and that really casts a doubt on the parts of millions of Americans,” said Sanders, who currently trails Clinton in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination.

“Are you really going to stand up for the middle and working class when you’re collecting millions from Jeb Bush supporters?”
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/279049-sanders-hits-clinton-for-soliciting-republican-donors

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Response to w4rma (Reply #7)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:15 AM

9. That doesn't support the OP

That says that people are coming to her.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #9)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:19 AM

12. Hillary forces target Bush donors; Their message to moderate Republicans: She represents your values

 

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Response to w4rma (Reply #12)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:53 PM

122. Every democrat represents "values" better than any republican

Name a claimed republican value and liberalism acheaves the results better than conservatism.

I'm surprised you don't know that.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #12)

Sun May 8, 2016, 06:52 PM

138. Compared to conservative Republicans

She does represent their values. I know some moderate Republicans-fiscal conservative but will grudgingly pay new taxes if it's proven that it'll save in the long run. They tend to be a bit more center left on social issues such as abortion.

The moderates I know ( most identify as GOP) hated the candidates this go around. It's not a bad play for her to say that they might not like everything she'd do but that there is more in common with her than with what the GOP has become.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #7)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:19 AM

13. Yep. The sleazy Neo-Cons are backing the Former First Lady...

 

A vote for the Clinton Machine is a vote for War...

[link:|

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Response to NewImproved Deal (Reply #13)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:26 AM

16. Yeah because Bernie is going to really end wars.

 

Despite the fact he voted for more wars and war funding than any candidate running on both sides, and despite the fact he said he would continue the drone program. The myth of Bernie Sanders has overtaken the actual Bernue Sanders.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #16)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:34 AM

22. Get real. No one is claiming to end war. It's what the US does best.

 

Maybe it's more like who will jump in with both feet and who would at least take a couple of days, maybe make some calls, have some meetings before putting your children or grandchildren out to pound sand.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #1)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:19 AM

11. Reaching out to the Bush big money donors.

 

Just a start.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #1)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:22 PM

62. Bring TP.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #1)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:15 PM

84. Funny you should ask.

 

This OP was just posted this morning
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511922908

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:12 AM

2. Seems to me you are wrong.

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Response to riversedge (Reply #2)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:15 AM

8. Seems to me

Time will tell.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #8)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:27 PM

67. Seems to me

You're right. It seems we're all right. Now let's vote LEFT!

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Response to rock (Reply #67)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:20 PM

98. Careful, it's against the ToS to advocate voting against Democrats

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #98)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:25 PM

102. OK, but it's you

Who's implying the BSers are voting against Dems (which incidentally is not that surprising).

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Response to rock (Reply #102)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:29 PM

105. You said "Now let's vote LEFT!"

 

As things stand now, voting left would require voting for non-Democrats, on most ballots.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #105)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:39 PM

113. That's why I put LEFT in all caps

So the perspicacious among us would know I mean the Left (political side) and not left (the relative direction/side).

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Response to rock (Reply #113)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:49 PM

119. Which is my point

 

The Democratic Party is not a left-wing party. It's a center-right party. It could only be mistaken as a "left-wing" party if your basis of comparison is the other major party, the far-right (currently becoming Fascist) Republican party.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #119)

Sun May 8, 2016, 03:23 PM

125. So, Scootaloo

What planet are you from? Just joshing. Don't take it too seriously.

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Response to rock (Reply #125)

Sun May 8, 2016, 03:45 PM

127. I try to not take DU too seriously

 

Honestly though. The Democratic Party is not a leftist party. Never has been, and certainly isn't today.

The party is "to the left of the Republicans" but that is a very different thing from being "left"

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #127)

Sun May 8, 2016, 03:48 PM

129. You're more than welcome to your opinion

But we do not agree, at least on that point. It really was nice conversing with you. Thanks.

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Response to rock (Reply #129)

Sun May 8, 2016, 04:16 PM

132. Well, I thank you for your permission to have an opinion...

 

But it's not a matter of opinion, but of political science fact. The left / right political divide is not dependent on relative perspective. That is, your being to the left of, say, Paul Ryan does not necessarily make you "part of the left."

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #132)

Sun May 8, 2016, 05:19 PM

136. There is nothing what so ever

that the Democrats record in the last few decades places them on the left. Every formerly center-left party in the developed world has moved to the right, the Democrats are no exception, and long ago sold the store to corporate interests. Honestly, it seems that people have forgotten what it means to be on the left. Sanders, who is considered a far leftist, is nothing more than a mainstream New Deal Democrat, nothing more. People in the corporate press and the two corrupt parties that treat him as some wild eyed radical just help to prove how far to the right we've gone. Anyone denying this is ignorant to the facts, lying to others or themselves.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #98)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:52 PM

121. If Hillary is our candidate, who's the Democrat?

 

It'll be Republican vs. Republican in the general.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:23 AM

15. So the question is will DU prop up a Neocon/ Republicon lite

Candidate draped in a democratic cloak? I want our cape back. And burn the damn ThirdWay tent down like we did fuxking DLC years ago.

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Response to Kittycat (Reply #15)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:33 AM

21. Man, it's sure "jury lottery" time this morning.

 

Multiple anti-Hillary posts that don't remotely violate ToS getting hidden..

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #21)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:35 AM

23. Touched a nerve. It's hard to come to terms with the mirror

Once it's been wiped clean.

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Response to Kittycat (Reply #23)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:39 AM

28. Nailed it!

 

You can almost hear the nervous laughter...kinda like their candidate does when called out.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:12 AM

4. I do like the leather, though.

 

Going for the Harley rider vote?

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Response to HassleCat (Reply #4)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:38 AM

27. That would be cool.

The more votes, the closer to victory.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:13 AM

6. Because the previous predictions from Sanders supporters have worked out so well, Huh ? LOL

 

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #6)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:48 AM

36. They've been better than the conservaDem Hillary supporters' predictions.

Bernie was supposed to be out of the race after Iowa. Nope. After New Hampshire. Nope. After Super Tuesday. Nope. After Michigan. Nope. After New York. Nope.

She's turning right, back to her normal rightist, corporatist positions. But, that should make you happy.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #6)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:59 AM

45. Perhaps, some underestimated the extent of the right-wing infestation of the Dem Party.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:16 AM

10. The election will be a choice between a Nixon-style Republican

and an outright fascist. Fuck the progressives, right?

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #10)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:51 AM

38. If Nixon was running in this election

He'd have my vote.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:22 AM

14. .

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #14)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:29 AM

17. Maybe you should get water away from the fracked gasholes.



It might taste better and is less inflammable.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #17)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:36 AM

24. Fortunately we don't have fracking in NY.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #24)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:03 PM

81. You will

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Response to SwampG8r (Reply #81)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:04 PM

82. Nope.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #82)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:53 PM

86. Why?

 

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #86)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:55 PM

87. Cuomo said no. There is too much opposition to Fracking in NY.

 

It won't happen.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #87)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:11 PM

91. OK...I guess they just let the poor states sink into the ground.

 

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #91)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:14 PM

93. The NY goverment has nothing to do with other state politics.

 

The states will havr to ban it on their own.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #93)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:17 PM

96. With a little help from the former Senator from New York. Ironic, isn't it?

 

It is a national political position.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #96)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:18 PM

97. You know as goid as I do an federal ban on fracking will never happen.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #97)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:35 PM

108. Well neither will Health Care for all, but one has to start and only

 

someone who believes in it can/will begin the process.

Kind of like getting obscene corporate donations out of politics or other unpopular social proposals. Won't happen right away, but some of us still believe in Yes, We Can when our leaders lead. If our leaders say, No, We Can't, well...you get the idea.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #108)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:37 PM

109. Raise your voice and vote.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #109)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:39 PM

110. Oh, Please.

 

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #110)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:39 PM

112. Oh?

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #93)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:20 PM

99. But isn't Bernie going to sign an executive order ending fracking? I have heard that....

 

seriously the shit people believe is astounding.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #99)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:21 PM

100. He will just speak and all will be well.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #100)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:32 PM

106. funny when states decide other things, he is loathe to argue with them. gay marriage....

 

closing clinics, etc. No big as promises regarding that shit. Nope.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #106)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:39 PM

111. Indeed. Mr. Perfect is not perfect.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #111)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:44 PM

114. My breaking point was "how perfect" he is on reproductive rights.....

 

amazing how doing jack shit except saying "me too" gets such applause here. Doing the actual work to preserve our rights meant nothing. Mind glowingly stupid, that gambit. It was just too much for me.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #114)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:47 PM

116. A lot of revisionist history from his fans.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #116)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:50 PM

120. That bit was just going too far. She replied to a hypothetical question about a constitutional

 

amendment.... anyone repeating that bullshit has no idea how very hypothetical that was. Is Bernie pushing for a constitutional amendment with no restrictions on women? Nope, he knows it would destroy him. Yet his supporters have never considered any of this. What bullshit. They know better, or should.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:32 AM

18. The gist of your bogus characterization is...

you didn't like her jacket choice?

No sexism there, right?

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:32 AM

19. What shift? She's saying what she's always said, just without mentioning Bernie as much.

 

Oh wait, that's the problem, isn't it? She isn't bothering to talk about Bernie, so you think she's a Republican.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #19)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:38 AM

26. I think it's the talking to Jeb Bush and Co that bothers us. Of course,

 

we're not really surprised. It's just taking off the thin veneer of the Third Way a bit prematurely as a bridge over to the Republican side.

So, I take it you are just fine with her "palling around with Republicans" for more fame and fortune (and money)?

Good lord, based on DU rules, we'll have to be VERY careful talking about Republicans who our front runner is consorting with.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #26)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:45 AM

32. RE: Palling around

 

No, I don't have a problem with anyone 'palling around' with Republicans. They're political opponents, not plague-infected parasites who can't breathe the same air as us. There's nothing wrong with having friends on the other side of the aisle. In fact, since governing takes compromise, it's probably a good thing.

Besides, Bernie has boasted that he can attract Republican support. Is the problem just that Hillary has actually done it, while Bernie is just a theory right now?

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #32)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:52 AM

39. Bernie does it by being honest and telling them how he disagrees. Clinton tells them she agrees with

 

them.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #39)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:56 AM

41. I'm sure R's love Hillary's tax increases, ACA embrace, minimum wage increase, etc.

 

And if you're going to point to foreign policy, I'll grant you that Hillary is slightly less to the left than Bernie, but let's keep in mind that Bernie still supports drone strikes, gigantic military funding, and even supported the removal of Saddam Hussein as US policy. He is not as far left as he has been claiming.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #41)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:01 PM

46. None of which she'll pass through a Republican Congress. But, she'll pass these things.

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #41)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:02 PM

48. Wait ... where are the "socialist/communist" pejoratives?

 

Now, he is "not as far left as he has been claiming?" Must be Pretzel Time.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #48)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:04 PM

49. On foreign policy, he's not. He's supported plenty of military intervention he won't mention.

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #49)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:12 PM

54. So just half socialist/communist? What a crock.

 

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #54)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:17 PM

56. Those are your words, not mine.

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #56)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:23 PM

63. So you weren't in on the Cluster Attack of Socialist/Communist.

 

Bull. That was supposed to sink him, you do remember that. No one will vote for a Socialist. But then, you knew that. And no, they weren't my words. I'm fine with Democratic Socialist, as apparently are millions more.

Now we have to look at the shift to Republican money grubbing. But seems that doesn't bother those in The Bubble. The question is who and how much will she owe them and how many of our Democratic (big D) Issues will fall beside the wayside. No need to answer...it's rhetorical, but true.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #63)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:27 PM

68. All I'm saying is you brought up socialism/communism in this thread, not me.

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #68)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:34 PM

72. Yes, of course I did. It's relevant. I didn't expect anyone with an H

 

would touch it at this point.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #72)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:36 PM

73. It's utterly disingenuous...

 

for you to inject something into the conversation, and then use that against me. It doesn't make me look bad, it makes you look bad for having to resort to making stuff up to continue your side of the conversation.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #73)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:40 PM

75. Oh my, "inject something..." I forgot, some think this is a discussion

 

board, not an outlet for declarations. My bad.

But please, help me out with what I made up as I "injected" myself into the conversation.

I'd repeat your title, but it would be, well, repetitive.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #75)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:47 PM

77. I made comments, then you injected communism into the discussion...

 

trying to paint me as a crazy person smearing Bernie here, there, and everywhere. I did no such thing, and you know it.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #77)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:57 PM

88. Think maybe you've got the wrong poster here...I mentioned the Group Speak

 

in the beginning, and it wasn't considered crazy then. Now, well apparently it does.

Sorry, I don't go through posters posts...don't have time. But all the ruckus in the beginning sported big Red Hs, so.....

Nor do I think or even infer you're a crazy person smearing bernie, here, there and everywhere. If you got that from my opinion I expressed, well sobeit.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #32)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:56 AM

42. That's Really Reaching...when she's yes, Palling Around with their Donors

 

and making nice with the likes of Jeb Bush and George Will. Friends?

Attracting support and joining forces monetarily...just a tad bit of difference. That always goes on. But this display of sheer arrogance? They aren't supporting each other for their values...other than the green ones.

I mean, we all knew she would do it...and of course, were roundly criticized for the audacity...but she feels she can get away with it now as she feels she has the nomination locked up.

She feels right comfy with Republicans.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #42)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:01 PM

47. If R;s want to jump on the Democratic train, I say welcome. Now we're an even bigger majority.

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #47)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:17 PM

57. Uh, not Rs. Rs with big donors. You know, those folk who do not "give"

 

unless they "get". It's about who she "owes". No transcripts, either, from a room full of her donors.

This is not about voters. It's about who she is going to owe...other than all the big banks...if, unfortunately, she can claw her way to President.

Remember when she said she'd release transcripts when everyone else did. Problem was, no one else spoke privately to a room full of bankers. Did she release them? Still waiting. Just another Clinton Crass Political Shuffle.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #57)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:19 PM

58. Remember when Bernie crowed about not taking speaking fees, though it would have been illegal to?

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #58)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:51 PM

85. Your point???

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #32)

Sun May 8, 2016, 04:07 PM

131. Plague-infested parasites? Overreact much? Context fail.

 

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #26)

Sun May 8, 2016, 04:04 PM

130. I have noticed, even in this thread, how

the Hillary supporters don't have a problem with a supposed Left-wing Democrat, not quite as far Left as Bernie though, soliciting donations from the very people whose political philosophies Democrats are supposed the be campaigning against.

When is it going to be a violation of DU rules to be supporting Hillary???
Never mind, I already know the answer to that. Tums anyone?

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #19)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:39 AM

29. She's moved on from Bernie.

Her focus is on Trump, all day every day. As it should be.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #29)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:58 AM

43. Yes...that's why she's going to Republicans for financial help.

 

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #43)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:07 PM

50. At this point, I don't care who she goes to for $$$ help.

As long as she beats Trump.

There are far greater concerns at hand than taking shots at Hillary about her campaign fundraising.

For everyone's good, we must beat Trump.

The large majority of the public are realizing it. Even top Republicans realize it.

Maybe it's time that Bernie's supporters realize it. So much is at stake here.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #50)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:11 PM

53. Of course you don't.

 

But do you care who she owes? I mean in political favors?

Alas, The Bubble is, well, The Bubble.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #53)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:22 PM

61. You're right. At this point, I don't care.

And I'd imagine that our allies throughout the world don't care either.

Because they're shaking in their boots at the prospect of a Trump presidency. So am I.

And so should you.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #61)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:42 PM

76. I'm shaking in my boots at the thought of either as president.

He's an idiot and she never saw a war she didn't like.

The world wants Bernie, btw.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #76)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:51 PM

79. Fawke, if the world wanted Bernie, he wouldn't be some 3 million votes behind.

I respect your support for Bernie, but the greater priority for the entire country now is to defeat Trump.

Trump says that dropping a nuclear bomb in the Middle East and/or Europe is an option. He wants to deport all illegal immigrants. He thinks women are pigs. And so much more.

Bernie is fading away now (I didn't see him listed on any of the Sunday AM political shows, which is a first). All media eyes are on Trump. And Hillary, his foe.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #53)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:24 PM

64. We all have our bubbles.

I'm working in Hillary's bubble. I know my priorities.

Bernie's time is done.

All eyes are on Trump now. As they should be.

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #50)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:19 PM

59. Gosh, how surprising!

 

Said no one, ever...

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #29)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:13 PM

83. She can now pander to Repubs.

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Response to Broward (Reply #83)

Sun May 8, 2016, 06:47 PM

137. Whatever it takes to beat Trump. nt

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:32 AM

20. "Centrist" Democrats like Hillary are doing the job regular Republicans used to do

 

Most of the space left by the Republican Party in their shift to off-the-charts RightWingDominionistCrazyLand is vacant.

The "Democratic" party has in the past 30-40 years filled the void with it's DLC 'Centrist' types which I've said before are just 1960s (at best) Republicans.

That's what Hillary is.

She can call herself whatever she wants. Ideologically, she's a Republican.

Bernie can call himself whatever he wants. Ideologically, HE is the only DEMOCRAT in the race.

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Response to Triana (Reply #20)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:44 AM

31. Yes, watch what I do before you listen to what I say or

 

what I conveniently label myself. We've watched for 25 years.

How some come up with her as the Democratic standard bearer is astonishing. But then again, she's a Clinton v.2 and it's pretty common knowledge of their copious background smear bait, which she used to her benefit.

Wonder why no Establishment Democrat would run? See last sentence.

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Response to Triana (Reply #20)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:50 AM

37. Yep.

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Response to Triana (Reply #20)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:59 AM

44. You can't use history as an etched-in-stone benchmark.

 

The fact that the entire party might be a bit less to the left does not mean that a solidly left-leaning Democrat today is really a Republican. Republicans have shifted so far to the right that there is truly no comparison.

It would be unfair to say that Republicans are the better party for minorities, since Lincoln was one, and it's unfair to say that today's Democrats aren't Democrats based on what the part was seventy years ago. We live in the here and now, and given where the parties are, Hillary is most definitely a progressive Democrat.

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #44)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:08 PM

51. No she's not. She has labeled herself a Centrist. She Is Not a Progressive.

 

But then again, how would anyone really know. She changes from day to day. Sorry, rethinks, listens, evolves, sends out Brock, hides from the press playing Where Is Hillary? We know...she's out getting more money, now from the Republicans, so she won't be glowing in the light of the press for awhile.

She may be Progressive on a couple of issues, but tomorrow isn't here yet, so...there's that. Third Way Progressive. LOL. She's now Pretzeling.

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Response to Triana (Reply #20)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:26 PM

65. The centrist Clinton's did things

that the Republicans could only dream of when she was co-Presidenting

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #65)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:01 PM

89. That's the whole point really. DLCers can do by stealth what Republicans can't do overtly

 

I think that is their function: to pander to the left and govern right so as to fool the masses into thinking they're 'for you' or 'for us' when they're really for the wealthy, Wall St. and Corps.

Overtly, they're Dems. Covertly, they're really Republicans.

Republicans will SAY they're going to cut social security and people won't support that.

Today's 'centrist Democrats' can say they're NOT going to cut social security, but then cut it, and people will support that.

Pfft.

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Response to Triana (Reply #20)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:44 PM

115. Bullshit-That old smear-Hillary was one of the most liberal Senators in Congress

It's BSS fave ad hom. Call anyone you disagree with a Republican

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #115)

Sun May 8, 2016, 07:17 PM

140. Look who was the #1 most liberal.

 

Thaaat's right: SANDERS: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280109868

And this article uses a bit more accurate methodology to unpack this "Hillary was the 11th most liberal Senator" meme (and once again, look who's at #1).

EXCERPT:

Relative to her time, Hillary Clinton is only 19% more liberal than the average Democrat from the 110th. When compared to her modern-day colleagues of the 113th, she’s more liberal than just 12% of them. Again — removing Blue Dogs and moderates would drastically reduce Clinton’s numbers here, bringing her almost to the center.



Clinton’s liberality is marked by red, while the party average is marked by green.

Sounds a lot less impressive than the “11th most liberal senator,” doesn’t it? Seems like you could call her a moderate Democrat.

In total, there are 18 senators below Clinton, but above the party average. That’s only an 8% difference, meaning that Clinton really isn’t that much different than the 18 members that separate her from the average.



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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:37 AM

25. of course! hello TPP, Keystone XL, Privatized Social Security, ETC

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:41 AM

30. Even though we all realize this is a pointless bash and trash; why the sexism???

How many times have you commented on Bernie's matching tie? Bernie's cute brown shoes?

no matter what spiffy leather jacket


What's the point with the description of
Hillary's glorious truth of who she is
?

This OP is condescending and sexist - just like Trump (and sometimes Bernie).

Not surprising that we're seeing a bunch of new desperation OPs from losing Blemmings. There are also some last shots by paid operatives and trolls. It's hard to know motivations. Regardless, the posts reveal the values and personality of the posters!

This is a case in point. Not worth an alert, even though it should be hidden.

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Response to Sancho (Reply #30)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:45 AM

33. I believe it's Bernie's rumpled clothing and department store suit...for starters.

 

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #33)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:31 PM

70. Or his unruly hair. How sexy... er sexist.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #70)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:36 PM

74. ...and that, as well. Even more than the clothes. In fact, it was mentioned

 

so often, that we now recognize it as a sort of crown of honor.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #70)

Mon May 9, 2016, 09:15 AM

143. Pointing out that a woman or a POC wouldn't be taken seriously if they ran for

president looking like Bernie did in the beginning is pointing out the the double standard in our society. A white guy can look like your favorite rumpled professor, but no way in hell could any woman or POC.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:46 AM

34. No big shift ongoing just more speculation of those not accepting reality

 

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #34)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:59 PM

124. Yep ... Just a bunch of crazy Sanders supporters

 

Hoping for a better world for their children ....

How did I miss you? ... Click

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:48 AM

35. Bookmarked for later

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:53 AM

40. No. Hillary's mostly very solidly liberal and the party's liberal,

but both parties now NEED to put additional focus on convincing moderate blue-collar workers and a moderates from a couple other groups my mind's blanked on for the moment to vote for them. Both candidates will need as many votes as possible from these groups in order to win the election. We have to give them some reason to vote Democrat, and that's just the way it is.

There would be enough liberals and far-lefters to put many of our people in office, IF they voted in greater percentages, but too many just don't bother.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #40)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:28 PM

69. Liberal? Liberal? Liberal? Not.

 

As to the last paragraph, there's a reason "they" don't vote. Not enough clothespins any more for some. Finally we get a real Liberal candidate, and the press won't cover him, and the Democratic Establishment has already crowned it's Third Way Republican-Lite candidate.

You need to give real Democrats a reason...but for HRC, it's a much shorter and familiar hop over to the Republicans and their money. Now she not only owes the Banking Cartel, but the Republican Donors. That's a winning ticket for many here, it seems.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #69)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:59 PM

80. Bernie isn't a liberal by personality, he's a

left-wing radical by personality. Very different. He's not in the least ashamed of it, either, just doesn't keep hitting it because it's not a big help politically. But you see it in his behavior and his often unconcealed contempt for the liberals around him in Washington and their policies. Liberal and radical are personality types, not just ideological orientations.

As for giving "real Democrats a reason," every one of us has tremendous reason to go vote, and a tremendous duty to do so. There should never be a need for any of us to be "given" reason instead of finding it for ourselves or a need to be coaxed, begged, bribed, or hogtied and delivered to the polling place. That's for children and low-functioning adults.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #80)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:08 PM

90. Hillary isn't a liberal by personality. She's a Republican-Lite.

 

what of his speeches, etc. would be left-wing radical? Please be specific.

But since your calling out Bernie his speeches and positions have been pretty darn consistent for decades. Vermont is in the United States and he's served consistently for decades. I haven't been in Washington lately.

Maybe he has "evolved". Heck, we were told Hillary had "evolved" until she ran over to the Republicans as soon as she had grasp on the nomination. Many of us thought she might wait a bit longer, but where there's money, time is of the essence.

And the last paragraph...well that's WAY OFF target and subject and quite the sanctimonious lecture. Oh yeah, and really uncalled for on DU.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #90)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:15 PM

94. Bernie's radical by personality. As most of us know

perfectly well, he's voted with Democrats, most of them liberal, over 95% of the time for a quarter century. But we know he's radical by personality by his behavior, including his extreme righteousness, his vast intolerance of all who do not share his views, and his rejection of all political solutions that differ from his. These are classic.

Liberal personality is classically characterized by openness to new ideas, acceptance of those who are different, and and willingness to cooperate with others.

Thus, although there is great overlap in their goals and Hillary could probably accept most of his means to achieve them if they were possible/practicable, Bernie refuses to accept any of her means to achieve them even if they are achievable and would advance us toward his goals.

A willingness to accept complete failure rather than compromise is characteristic of radicals. It is not of liberals, and thank goodness for that.

Just tremendously different.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #94)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:24 PM

101. Um, Hillary is Republican and Conservative by personality. Or are the

 

rules different for her. No need to answer that. As we speak, she's "caucusing" with the Republicans. Doesn't take a 4 paragraph rant to grasp that.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #101)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:28 PM

104. No, no 4-paragraph rants needed.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #69)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:47 PM

117. Bullshit-That old smear-Hillary was one of the most liberal Senators in Congress

Call anyone that disagrees with you a Republican-must march in lockstep with Bernie or you are a Republican.

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #117)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:54 PM

123. You did not read carefully. Thus, I just consider the source.

 

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #117)

Sun May 8, 2016, 11:24 PM

142. If Hillary is so "liberal", then what sort of "liberal" things is Wall Street paying her to do? (nt)

 

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:10 PM

52. It seems to me you havent give her a chance.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #52)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:32 PM

71. Yes, the press has ignored her. Not. Well, in a way they have. They haven't asked

 

questions that are pertinent...just Hillary worship. Bernie got called a Socialist/Communist out of the gate, and they did not use his term Democratic Socialist unless it was derision.

Apparently, there wasn't a term that described Hillary (other than a Clinton...which means whatever they want it to mean at the current time) because she was too busy evolving. Well, now we see what she's evolved to. No big surprise to many of us.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:13 PM

55. She has Oscar de la Renta on speed dial.

 

We don't need this fucking bullshit.

KR

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:22 PM

60. Hillary Clinton is the most qualified candidate in the field

She will be the nominee. The math is the math

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #60)

Sun May 8, 2016, 03:27 PM

126. Qualified to fuck us over, that's for sure.

 

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:26 PM

66. The timing is good.

 

She needs to run to the right as soon as possible, and she has the nomination in the bag. This is just the beginning. Once Trump gets to the left of her on a couple issues, anything can happen. Flag burning? Abortion? War on drugs?

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)


Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:15 PM

95. Timing premature you say? NO, the timing is perfect, for Bernie. Let her show who she really is

 

so the voters know, BEFORE it is too late. Perfect timing. Would have liked to see it a bit SOONER.
Maybe they'll believe her when she shows them her real face. They wouldn't listen to us.

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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #95)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:48 PM

118. bernie is losing by 3 million votes and 300 delegates

and you just think we should declare him the nomination?

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:27 PM

103. I will put it this way: I am done with her. nt

 

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 02:34 PM

107. I agree. Then he doesn't have to campaign in the upcoming primary states, right


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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 03:46 PM

128. When will Hillary be done

making me want to throw up?

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 04:25 PM

133. 132 replies and I only see 24 of them. Wow, Hillary's people must be out in droves today. I

 

wonder what was in the their meme for the day meeting? Alert on everything and hope for lots of blocks...

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Response to litlbilly (Reply #133)

Sun May 8, 2016, 10:22 PM

141. They have their

 

Orders and are doing their best to follow them

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)


Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 06:53 PM

139. Hers is a backward looking politics. Like him or not, Bernie's perspective is the future

Hillary's backwardation may yet find election in 2016. But she will find herself in the ash pile of history. The future of progressive-ism will look more like Bernie than the sad dying embers of a 1990's cronyist/identity political perspective manifest in Hillary.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2016, 09:30 AM

144. Checks date of original post.

Shakes head.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2016, 09:34 AM

145. Premature rightward sprint, but like a fish out of water she

 

was probably anxious to get back to the political right element where she is most comfortable, and certainly most believable.

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