2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Democratic party needs to *compromise*!
Compromise with us, We the People!
Enough of ramming their corporate
agenda down our throats.
Enough with *who else you gonna vote for*.
Enough with neo-liberal, and neo-con
destruction of our lives and the environment.
Fuck compromising with self-defeating
policies and appeasement of recalcitrant
money grubbing conservatives...
of any party.
NO
It's time that the new DLC democrat
3rd-Way corporatists compromise with us.
Who else is going to vote for them?
It's time the chips fall where they may.
Enough of the slow bleeding of the 99%
Enough of false choices and false economy.
Time to pull off the band-aid.
Henhouse
(646 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)They've been tossed over the side to join the poor swimming with the sharks.
Heh heh heh. And these are the wealthiest times in human history.
Csainvestor
(388 posts)And by compromise I mean, he should just shred the TPP and get rid of it forever.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)Is there anything in it you like?
Csainvestor
(388 posts)Written by corporations to screw Working Class People. What's not to like.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)Posts like yours only adds to that perception.
Who cares if they negotiated behind closed doors? The results are not at all "secret"
The TPP includes many positive things like:
TPP requires countries to:
Protect the freedom to form unions and bargain collectively
Prohibit and eliminate exploitative child labor and forced labor
Protect against employment discrimination
Set acceptable conditions of work concerning minimum wages, hours of work, and workplace health and safety;
Prevent degradation of labor protections in export processing zones designated areas that often have lax labor rules in other countries, allowing them to compete unfairly and combat trade in goods made by forced labor, including forced child labor, in countries inside and outside TPP.
TPP also establishes specific labor reforms that Vietnam, Malaysia, and Brunei must undertake to meet their TPP obligations. The United States will not bring TPP into force with these countries if the reforms are not made. And we will not hesitate to take action against any countries that fail to live up to their obligations in the labor chapter, including through trade sanctions.
And in addition to TPP representing a renegotiation of NAFTA by holding Mexico to the fully enforceable labor provisions listed above, Mexico is also developing parallel labor reforms, including to better protect collective bargaining and reform its system for administering labor justice.
The TPP boosts exports and economic growth, creating more jobs and prosperity for the 12 countries involved. It increases exports by $305 billion per year by 2025. U.S. exports would increase by $123.5 billion, focusing on machinery, especially electrical, autos, plastics and agriculture industries.
It does this by removing 18,000 tariffs placed on U.S. exports to the other countries. The United States has already withdrawn 80% of these tariffs on foreign imports. The TPP evens the playing field.
The agreement adds $223 billion a year to incomes of workers in all the countries, with $77 billion of that going to U.S. workers. (Source: US Trade Representative, TPP Fact Sheet)
All countries agreed to cut down on wildlife trafficking, especially elephants, rhinoceroses, and marine species. It prevents environmental abuses, such as unsustainable logging and fishing. Those that don't will face trade penalties.
http://useconomy.about.com/od/Trade-Agreements/fl/What-Is-the-Trans-Pacific-Partnership.htm
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)talk is cheap
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)Multi-national corporations, 'investors,' polluters, and sweatshop owners all get the full force of the TPP behind them.
But Unions? They should be grateful that they even got some 'talk.'
You're right, Mnpaul. Talk is cheap. But the cost of these undemocratic trade agreements is very, very dear.
-app
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Triangulation be damned.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)I'm guessing that the person who posted that drivel "had any true idea of what's in it or who's involved"
They were just regurgitating talking points with no facts to back them up.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)*crickets*
Run away little sock, you've been outed.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)puffy socks
(1,473 posts)Zip file with all 30 chapters at the end of the Table of contents.
https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/about-us/who-we-are/treaty-making-process/trans-pacific-partnership-tpp/text-of-the-trans-pacific-partnership
The TPP boosts exports and economic growth, creating more jobs and prosperity for the 12 countries involved. It increases exports by $305 billion per year by 2025. U.S. exports would increase by $123.5 billion, focusing on machinery, especially electrical, autos, plastics and agriculture industries.
It does this by removing 18,000 tariffs placed on U.S. exports to the other countries. The United States has already withdrawn 80% of these tariffs on foreign imports. The TPP evens the playing field.
The agreement adds $223 billion a year to incomes of workers in all the countries, with $77 billion of that going to U.S. workers. (Source: US Trade Representative, TPP Fact Sheet)
All countries agreed to cut down on wildlife trafficking, especially elephants, rhinoceroses, and marine species. It prevents environmental abuses, such as unsustainable logging and fishing. Those that don't will face trade penalties.
Cons
Most of the gains in income would go to workers making more than $88,000 a year. Free trade agreements contribute to income inequality in high-wage countries by promoting cheaper goods from low-wage countries.
That would be especially true of the TPP because it protects patents and copyrights. Therefore, the higher-paid owners of the intellectual property would receive more of the income gains.
The agreement regarding patents will reduce the availability of cheap generics, making many drugs more expensive. Competitive business pressures will reduce the incentives in Asia to protect the environment. Last but not least, the trade agreement could supersede financial regulations. (Source: Public Citizen, Eyes on Trade, September 12, 2013)
The Negotiators Overcame These Obstacles
There were five major sticking points that stood in the way of the deal. Here's how they were overcome.
The United States agreed to shorter patents, especially for biologic drugs. Pharmaceutical companies can keep their formulas secret for five to seven years instead of 12 years.
All stated-owned enterprises must comply with global trade standards that protect their workers and the environment. The United States had to overcome objections from Vietnam, Singapore, and Malaysia. Those countries must now allow labor unions or face penalties.
The United States, Japan, and Canada will lose some tariff protection for dairy, beef and poultry producers. Farming subsidies received by U.S. and EU companies prevented the success of the Doha round of trade talks held by the World Trade Organization. (Source: "The ABCs of TPP," The Globe and Mail, January 26, 2016)
http://useconomy.about.com/od/Trade-Agreements/fl/What-Is-the-Trans-Pacific-Partnership.htm
Now run along little one...the adults are speaking.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)civil liberties and the economic livelihoods of most Americans for too long. Enough with the Third Way corporate whores.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)we need to get the 98%, just like what Obama gave up.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)in the entire history of the party down our throats!
Just a few months ago I was agonizing with a question I believe many are still agonizing over now, "whether to continue supporting a now corrupt and now largely right wing party out of decades of habit and loyalty, or simply remove all ties to such a right wing, corrupt party". Of course none of us thinking this are considering an even further right wing party (quickly approaching Fascism) as an alternative, but NPA is looking saner all the time.
My agonizing is over, not because I had made a decision, no, rather because the party made the decision for me, when after 27 years enrolled in the Democratic party (and having missed only one election (in 2002 because I was hospitalized), the party took it upon themselves to change my party affiliation from Democrat to NPA sometime just before the NYS primary.
My decision made for me, in such an underhanded way simply as a means to purge me (and many others like me) from the primary voter rolls so as to favor a candidate they had chosen for us), leaving me unable to vote in my own primary after nearly three decades - cemented the decision they had already made for me.
I am now officially, without my consent, or even a polite notification that I was kicked out of the party, an "Independent voter" and because of the way it happened I may still vote for some Democrats (because some still honor my values) but I will not "rejoin" a party I never did leave by legal means, nor will I vote for Democrats that are more like Republicans in policy, the neo-liberals, and neocons, will not get my vote as they once did as my habit had been to vote straight ticket.
I loathe Republicans, so some bits of my ticket will remain blank, while others may be filled in with a candidate in line with my values no matter if they are (I) or (G). The now corrupt party will have to deal with some unexpected consequences because of their own corruption and illegal vote purges. They alone share the blame for this.
policies and appeasement of recalcitrant
money grubbing conservatives...
I couldn't agree more!
The party itself is becoming moderate Republican anyway
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I referred to were regarding some social issues, but even on those, these "new" Democrats are to the right of LBJ regarding minorities as is evidenced by William J Clinton's (with the wholehearted support of Hillary Rodham Clinton I might add) war on mostly minorities crime bills and drug wars which have resulted in an industrial prison complex/industry that has more people now in prison in our county than even China, North Korea or any of the worst of the banana republics or cruel monarchies such as Saudi Arabia.
With just a bit more time, once they feel they no longer need minority, LGBT and others they pay lip service to now's votes, rest assured, they will lose any "moderation" left.
Actually, I think Hillary's courting of the Republican king makers donation's and her now near complete support of the neocons, that time may come much sooner than later.
They started by giving up the votes of the poor and working class for the professional and financial upper class votes.
They will likely abandon the Social issues votes next in order to gain the bigoted and war machine votes. (please note that although the words presented in italics are only speculative at the moment, the former have already happened and are a "done deal" in this party realignment
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)This will be my 4th hide in 90 days...last time I was from Friday till Monday...how's that for 24 hours?
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)recently and a few even more minor things as well, it is simply a sign of the times.
I take a bit of comfort in knowing that many of the meanest and pettiest posters here that support the right candidate (pun intended) have over a dozen hides, I saw one that actually had twenty.
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)Heck I'm not a profligate poster...I just wonder if some posters are assigned to Bernie supporters, just to get their posts hidden, and to get them 'time out'?
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)coordinated by the less ethical among the Hillary supporters, but once their posts regarding such activity were linked to here, they hid the group from public view (special members only could see it after that).
I don't think that is or was the root of the problem however, just one of the branches.
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)since the 'most ethical' will do anything to ensure a hillary win
Eko
(7,281 posts)will be so much fun, watching people just loose it will be so entertaining. Must stock up on popcorn.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)But, if it's Hillary, you're going to see a mass exodus from the former "Democratic" Party that would make Pharaoh's head spin.
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)a statistical insignificance.
raging moderate
(4,297 posts)Possess thy soul in patience.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)The irrational expectation that a candidate can win 2/3rds of every pledged delegate remaining.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Can't you feel the hubris? The warmth of the gloating? They don't need us. We're losers. Our support of Bernie was a bother to them, an inconvenient distraction from the inevitable march to the presidency of (cue fanfare) Hillary Clinton. We have no legitimate problems with the Third Way? How could we? Just because it has made us the minority party at every level of government? Just because it abandoned the working class and middle class, and sold us out to banks and lawyers? Pffft! Nothing! Just a bunch of whining from perennial malcontents. They don't need us or our votes. We can jump off a cliff, as long as we don't vote for Trump on the way. Or maybe it doesn't matter if we vote for Trump, or don't vote, or whatever. As long as we get lost and stop bothering them. We're ruining their celebration.