Hillary Clinton has more votes than than Bernie Sanders because...

[GoldenThunder]

Last edited Mon May 9, 2016, 09:55 PM - Edit history (1)

...The Democratic Party is fundamentally broken. It has turned it's back on the working class of America and has been side-by-side with the GOP servicing the oligarchy and the military-industrial complex for years. America doesn't need two parties that both cater to the super rich and the rapid disappearance of Democrats from state and local governments all over the country brilliantly illustrates this point. A coronation of Clinton at the convention in Philadelphia will secure the DNC's commitment to the powerful over the people. History will ultimately prove this to be a fatal flaw. The DNC is perilously close to the point where millions of hard-working, honest and patriotic life-long Democrats like myself will have no choice but to dismantle this political organization with our own bare and calloused hands.

We will do this regardless of cost or consequence and we will do this with a clear conscience.

We the workers of America built this nation. We dared to dream big. We shot for the moon and we hit it. And we made for ourselves a damn good and solid middle class in the process. We've proven that we can suffer long and hard to bring the American Dream to reality. Do not doubt us for one moment that we aren't willing to double down on that long and hard battle to bring that precious American Dream back to life. And if the DNC refuses to stand by our side, we will cast away that terminally-damaged political party to the sands of time. And a new party will rise. One that is truly dedicated the spirit of those who toil and till. Here in Minnesota we understand that. That's why we're not just Democrats, but Farmers and Laborers, too. The rest of you could learn a thing or two from that.

DREAM BIG. DREAM AMERICAN. VOTE BERNIE.

Signed,
Lorrell Hanson,
Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party delegate and American worker


PS: A polite request. Do not hide any responses to my posts. I find great value in receiving any and all feedback to my prose and protestations. All voices in this debate are vital. Even the ones I vehemently disagree with. Democracy works best when the largest number of voices are present and accepted. Democracy doesn't work when you mash the ignore and trash buttons. Democracy is a symphony. Learn to face the music.

[onehandle]

1. >---<

[w4rma]

8. Don't be stupid. The DFL IS the Democratic Party in that state. (nt)

[RobertEarl]

11. Take your Wall Street for a ride

And see what is left of your wallet and insides when your done.

Me, I'll gladly go with the farmers and labor 'boys' cause when we are done there will food on the table and a table built to eat on.

With your Wall Street boys you'll end up homeless and starving.

[hrmjustin]

3. She won more votes because more Democratic Party Primary voters want Hillary to be president.

[libdem4life]

20. You forgot to add... and the MSM. Quite a voting bloc there. Bernie Who?

[hrmjustin]

21. Making excuses.

[libdem4life]

31. Amusing.

[hrmjustin]

38. No. Your excuses for his not winning is not amusing.

[libdem4life]

43. There is a difference between facts and excuses.

Kind of like trying to win a cooking contest with one hand tied behind your back. A fact/reason, not an excuse.

There is quite a while before everything shakes down. Who knows? No One. Just our opinions. You can have yours, and I'll keep mine...thanks.

[lunamagica]

29. Bernie and Jane are on TV ALL THE TIME. GMAB!

[libdem4life]

32. The race is about 1 year old. Now that they have a horse race,

of course they are covering them. But a poster today was watching morning news television and looks like it still stands...Trump #1, HRC #2 and Bernie Who?

Get educated. All these Bernie so Bad posts are just so silly.

GMAB.

[lunamagica]

36. Where did I say that "Bernie is so bad"? Please...

[libdem4life]

41. You didn't...I apologize and mis wrote. But the rest stands.

[Demsrule86]

55. They are not coverning the 'race'

because it is over... time for a large lady to sing.

[kaleckim]

51. So, he asks why and you say because they want her as president...

okay. Again, WHY?

[hrmjustin]

54. Why? Sanders did not run well eith African American voters.you can't sin the nomination by

Only winning 10-30 percent of African American voters in a Dem Primary is not enough.

[kaleckim]

57. You are welcome to stop evading

and to start answering the question. You support her because...the floor is yours. Which policies, what part of her record, sold you? I assume policies matter to you. Are you a working person, or are you well-off? If a working person, what exactly do you support (you don't need to answer the question if you're well off)?

[hrmjustin]

58. I support her because I think she is the most qualified candidate in the race.

I personally like her and I think she would make a good president.

I am not rich or well off.

On policies I have differences with her particularly on the Iraq war and Fracking.

[kaleckim]

62. You're providing a bunch of bumper stickers

Okay, she would make a good president. WHY? Has she, her husband and Democrats like her backed policies that have benefited working people and the poor, or the rich and corporations? I know the answer, do you? Which exact policy stances draw you in?

You can personally like her all you want, she doesn't have to be president for you to like her. She'd still exist and you could still buy her books and listen to (most of) her speeches. I would hope that in order for her to earn your vote it is something beyond you liking her. I seem to remember all the Bush supporters saying they could have a beer with him, which didn't work out well. Whatever though, think what you want.

[hrmjustin]

63. What is this 20 questions?

[kaleckim]

64. No, one question

and I was asking for specifics. I would think it would be easy and you would have already thought this through, since you post here, use her logo (at least it accurately points to the right), and seem interested in politics. That question should be as straight forward and easy as it comes.

[hrmjustin]

66. Then look through my posts and you will see my opinion of her.

Good day.

[AgingAmerican]

71. He cannot answer it, none of them can and they know it

So they evade. They can't actually explain why they think she would be a good president, they just believe it is so, and that's all their is to it!

Classic cognitive dissonance.

[MyNameGoesHere]

80. I choose her to represent me

and that's all the damn reason I need. That's democracy pal.

[kaleckim]

87. Democracy is also about debate and discussion

The person that started this thread asked a good question, a very simple question, and no one is saying anything of substance. You don't have to give me a reason, but the inability of so many to actually give a logical reason is telling. The fact is that most people simply haven't put tons of thought or energy into thinking about the actual issues, her record, top donors, etc.

[MyNameGoesHere]

94. I don't need your reasons

and you don't need mine. You're just trying to be self serving and force the issue. In your time of bereavement I can understand it. Although mostly it comes off sounding like a horses ass.

[puffy socks]

65. Some reasons I'm voting for Hillary Clinton

I like Hillary because she did not get involved in Honduras. Why help one coup replace another? They need to be left alone to sort it out for themselves.
I want Hillary for president because she understands we can't just scrap our current healthcare system and replace it with universal healthcare without totally destroying our economy and the lives of the very people she is trying to help.
She is correct, it is smarter to build off of the ACA.

I want Hillary for president because I like her Wall Street plan. We do need to focus on specific financial instruments and regulating them because even when Glass-Steagall was still in place in the mid 90s the banks nearly crashed the economy making the same sort of risky trades. Just ask Brooksley Borne.

I am voting forvHillary because her plan to make college "debt free," which requires families to contribute some money based on their need is a bettervmore viable plan We have no idea how the stock market will do, we have no idea what Wall Street will do to try and skirt trade fees.
It is too drastic a move to just wipe out tuitions altogether and replace with a system that has never been tried before and I think people should have to put something in lest college become a 4 yr party resort for many high school graduates

These are just a few of the many reasons I want Hillary Clinton to be the next president.

Notice none of them have anything to do with her being a woman.

[kaleckim]

68. "I like Hillary because she did not get involved in Honduras."

Are you serious? Can you explain why exactly she was called out in particular by a well known Honduran environmental activist shortly before she was assassinated?

Or this:

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/9/hillary-clinton-honduraslatinamericaforeignpolicy.html

"Hard choices: Hillary Clinton admits role in Honduran coup aftermath"

"We do need to focus on specific financial instruments and regulating them"

No, we need to focus on the fact that finance's share of domestic profits was less than 10% when Reagan took over, and approached 40% in 2007, when the crash started. It's now over a third again and rising. Kind of a problem when finance's product is debt and our economy is based on consumer spending. Instead of Clinton taking on the banks, and trying to structurally change the economy, she is taking their money (again), and has since she entered politics. Still waiting on why we also shouldn't break the big banks up since we know that the banks posed a systematic risk in 2007 and they are now bigger.

"I want Hillary for president because she understands we can't just scrap our current healthcare system and replace it with universal healthcare without totally destroying our economy and the lives of the very people she is trying to help.
She is correct, it is smarter to build off of the ACA."

Explain how paying far less for health care and having comprehensive health coverage would destroy the economy. Every other single payer system spends far less on health care (per capita and as a percentage of income and GDP) and has far less waste in their systems, far less negative exernalities associated with their systems as well (no bankruptcies, no waiting too long for treatment until diseases have progressed and treatments get more expensive, etc.). Explain your logic, how would single payer system destroy the lives of the "people she is trying to help" and also detail what EXACTLY would be done to expand on the ACA that wouldn't be a move towards universal care any damn way.

"I am voting forvHillary because her plan to make college "debt free"

She doesn't propose this. Explain in detail how her proposal radically differs from what we already have, a means tested financial aid system. It just modestly expands it, and that is if she got everything she wanted.

"t is too drastic a move to just wipe out tuitions altogether and replace with a system that has never been tried before"

States such as California and New York used to do this and many countries now do this. What exactly do you mean that it "has never been tried before?"

I appreciate you at least having answers though, specifics.

[puffy socks]

73. I'm done explaining for now. The ball is in your court...

Here's the answers to some of your questions. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/


Funny how HC has to have complete workable detailed plan, yet Bernie doesn't even have to come close.

Explain in detail how Bernie's plans will be out through without hurting the economy and the people he supposed to help breaking up banks? How does breaking up banks prevent them from trading and dividing up collateral debt obligations ? How is Glass Steagall going to fix our problems when it was in place in 1996 when bankers created a similar bubble under Clinton? It also allowed the Savings and Loan crisis in the 80s to happen.

NO, California and New York have never made all Universities and higher education schools FREE of tuition. How does he get the states to go along with this plan? how do we get states to eliminate tuition in a way that prevents them from gaming the system of federal subsidies? I see massive state arguments and lawsuits already!

It's NEVER been tried before across the nation, and countries like Germany have criteria each student has to meet. They don't just hand out educations to any old Joe. Bernie hasn't any detailed plan ..how many jobs has he planned to see people lose in the first year? Oh and just how is he going to get enough votes to tax WS ? and how is that going to sell taxing transactions when average Joes have their retirement savings invested in 401Ks and many retail investors trade the markets online? Why wouldn't investment cos. simply pass along these costs?
What's the eligibility requirements and who decides? Will public colleges all be treated the same? or are their choice colleges for students who really excel?

Nor does he have a detailed plan to flip us all into universal health care. Explain precisely each step of both these programs he will take and how much each step will cost and how many jobs he sees the economy losing in the first year, it's looking like nearly 300K jobs lost in the first month after initiation alone.. Bernie's "plan" that doesn't include the fact that Medicare isn't free there are co-pays. So how is going to make up the difference? Is he going to have co pays and supplemental insurance?


Explain why its ok for Bernie's war record to be so abysmal and yet just ignored by Sanders supporters? Yugoslavia, Kosovo? Libya? Somalia? 98 Iraq liberation (ok then but not in 2001) ? Were those the good wars? Those people's lives didn't matter?

Or why it's ok for Sanders to be profiting from Sierra Blanca nuclear waste dump? Jane Sanders is still drawing a salary as an commissioner for the TLLRWD ?
This is the commission that oversaw the Sierra Blanca dump site, that Sanders voted for and also voted to strip out the Wellstone amendment which would have given legal recourse to this mostly poor Latino community to fight the placement of this waste dump, if they could prove environmental racism. The compact was passed, with vigorous help from Sanders. He called it a "sacrifice zone".


Or voting for the 94 crime bill ?- you cant say it was to help women because black women were sent to prison thanks to that, but again-- FREE PASS for Bernie!


Or his vote for dereg for Wall Street? an actual VOTE for Wall Street dereg (and you don't get to blame Phil Gramm for sneaking in anything unless HC is forgiven completely for the Iraq vote as Congress was lied into the war.)


Or his looking up to Daniel Ortega and the Sandanista's a coup he pointed to as great! (again HC didn't start a coup in Honduras and I couldn't care less why some idiot speaks her name directly...maybe to suck in fools who don't really understand that the last coup was no different than this coup and on and on... )
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/4/daniel-ortega-is-a-sandinista-in-name-only.html


Or why he spent campaign money on his trip to the Vatican? Or why he's under investigation by the FEC?
Bernie Sanders received a warning from the Federal Election Commission, citing problems with his campaign's February finance report.


FEC Flags Thousands of Illegal Donations to Sanders’ Campaign--you know darn good and well if this were Hillary there'd be endless screaming about how corrupt she is, heck we've heard that line of ;poop every election that Sanders didnt win..withoiut a shred of proof. Why so quiet when it's Sanders?

"The letter states the report lists amounts of contributions, receipts, expenses and disbursements that "appear to be incorrect."
The letter also cites possible impermissible contributions that exceed the allowed limit per election cycle ($2,700 for individuals) along with donations that come from outside the United States and from unregistered political committees."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/02/26/bernie-sanders-campaign-contributions/80999298/

Yet we hear how Hillary "exploited loopholes" which is just a nasty way of interpreting she followed thew laws with her super pac.


...and why dropped his lawsuit against the DNC after supposedly being "proven right" . What did theta $75K in damages just disappear?
Where are the taxes he lied about and said he released?
Why did he lie about his newspaper endorsements? and then lie again when asked whether he'd ever made such a statement?

[kaleckim]

91. Your mind is a mess

You know, you could have made your points in a coherent way. What you did is the equivalent of a movie scene where you walk in the white room and the person wrote crazy things all over the walls and ceiling in crayon, or blood. I'll take a crack at a few disparate thoughts, but I wonder, did you do the same type of...thinking when it came to Clinton? Rhetorical question, obviously not. For example, she claims to want to expand the ACA. Do you demand an equal amount of specificity in how exactly that would occur? LOL! Please.

"Explain in detail how Bernie's plans will be out through without hurting the economy and the people he supposed to help breaking up banks? How does breaking up banks prevent them from trading and dividing up collateral debt obligations?"

How in the hell do you answer the first question, given how broad it is? You haven't even explained or proven what you mean by "hurting people". For example, if he were to break up the big banks, he would be hurting "people", the ones that don't want the banks broken up. Should I respond to that? Should we have a discussion in which there is some magical policy where no one is harmed, or are you claiming (nothing more) that more people would be harmed than helped by his policies? If so, you'd need a COHERENT supporting logic and facts. Or should I respond to the fact that hundreds of economists, the Fed and the Treasury all admit that the banks posed a systematic risk to the economy in 2007/2008 and those banks have now gotten bigger? The second question is equally confused, it doesn't stop them from trading and dividing up collateralized debt obligations, it simply means that if you were to reinstate Glass-Steagall and you were to break them up, when those banks do financial speculation, they'll be doing it with their own money and if they fail, they won't bring the economy down with them. Moving the economy away from financialization is a different thing, and can be done, but it would involve taking on your corrupt candidate's largest donors, the banks, since their product (debt) is central to financialization.

"NO, California and New York have never made all Universities and higher education schools FREE of tuition."

LOL! You're embarrassing yourself.

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/12/28/science/california-weighs-end-of-free-college-education.html

"CALIFORNIA WEIGHS END OF FREE COLLEGE EDUCATION"

Published: December 28, 1982

California's public system of higher education, long the envy of many other states, is edging toward acceptance of something even Ronald Reagan, as Governor, could not force upon it: tuition.

The California Postsecondary Education Commission recommended earlier this month that the state abandon one of the cornerstones of its college and university system, a pledge that the state will pay instructional expenses for all residents.

"countries like Germany have criteria each student has to meet."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/10/10/germany_college_is_free_there_even_for_foreign_students_why.html

"You Can Now Go to College in Germany for Free, No Matter Where You’re From"

Last week, Lower Saxony made itself the final state in Germany to do away with any public university tuition whatsoever. You read that right. As of now, all state-run universities in the Federal Republic—legendary institutions that put the Bildung in Bildungsroman, like the Universität Heidelberg, the Universität München, or the Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin—cost exactly nichts. (By the way, they weren’t exactly breaking the bank before, with semester fees of about EUR 500, or $630, which is often less than an American student spends on books—but even that amount was considered “unjust” by Hamburg senator Dorothee Stapelfeldt.)

"how many jobs has he planned to see people lose in the first year?"

What are you talking about? Again, you just spit out a bunch of comments or questions with no supporting logic, links, facts, or actual argument of any kind.

"Nor does he have a detailed plan to flip us all into universal health care. Explain precisely each step of both these programs he will take and how much each step will cost and how many jobs he sees the economy losing in the first year, it's looking like nearly 300K jobs lost in the first month after initiation alon"

Again, what in the hell are you talking about? Not only, once again, do you just throw out claims with no supporting logic or facts, but you also ask for specificity that is impossible. Canada got universal health care by first doing it in one province, it worked, and it spread thereafter. Britain did it at once. There are many different ways to get there and my guess would be that he would throw his support behind states like Colorado that are trying to implement that, it would be logical, incremental, and has proven to work everywhere else. That is just a guess though, since I can't predict the future and he could do it in a number of different ways. Amazing that I have to explain this to a (thoroughly confused) "Democrat".

"Or his vote for dereg for Wall Street? an actual VOTE for Wall Street dereg (and you don't get to blame Phil Gramm for sneaking in anything unless HC is forgiven completely for the Iraq vote as Congress was lied into the war.)"

What a stupid point to make. How in the hell does a logical person compare those two situations?

I give up, I can't go through your rambling comment any longer and try to pry out some coherent thoughts. What you are saying is jumbled nonsense. Instead of just cobbling together a bunch of stuff, maybe try to see how it logically fits together and make somewhat of a coherent argument. What you did is basically type down every critique you've read about him (whether or not it is factually true doesn't seem to matter) and just listed them randomly. Some subjects that are related are nowhere near each other in your post, most of what you said was claims you just threw out without any supporting logic or facts, and a lot of what you said (some of which I addressed above) is plain factually incorrect.

Remember when you type stuff online to calm down, collect your thoughts, and to think about how to make the points in a coherent way. Also, remember that claims aren't arguments, and they aren't facts. Claims need supporting arguments and facts. So maybe instead of typing random thoughts furiously, focus on a few that matter and provide some supporting logic and facts.

[brush]

4. Just a wild guess . . . because more people voted for her?

[Human101948]

7. A lot more people voted for George W. Bush...

Were they being smart?

[lunamagica]

30. Not a lot. He barely won

[lagomorph777]

39. Bush didn't win.

The SCOTUS sided with him in a NON-precedent-setting decision. They wanted to make sure their pretzel logic wouldn't be used against a Republican next time.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Were they the right people?

(homophone)

[Jackie Wilson Said]

5. Even though I am a Bernie voter, are you saying that unless Bernie wins the party is broken?

Hell, I support unions like NOBODY you know

Oh well, of course we have to vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination, otherwise there will be no unions left to fight for, surely you UNDERSTAND THAT?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

6. Or.......

Hillary is a longtime member of the Democratic Party and most voters in the Democratic Primary believe that she is best qualified to be POTUS? Maybe because many Democratic Primary voters don't trust Bernie due to him only recently joining the party just so that he can run for President? Maybe because most Democratic Primary voters believe that Hillary is more likely to deliver on her agenda than Bernie? Maybe because most Democratic Primary voters don't view this election- or the selection of Hillary- as being apocalyptic as some Sanders supporters believe it is?

[Human101948]

10. Voting for Hillary is like buying Charmin toilet paper...

It's a well known brand.

[Juicy_Bellows]

16. Oh Mr. Whipple!

[Human101948]

17. Well, you have succeeded at that!

Congratulations!

[Juicy_Bellows]

18. ?

Not a fan of satire or just giving me the business?

[OilemFirchen]

12. "... will have no choice but to dismantle this political organization ..."

What's stopping you from doing this right now? Why do you think anyone on a Democratic discussion board gives a shit about what you "will have no choice" to do?

[gollygee]

14. I don't understand the logic here

I voted for Bernie, and I was pretty hopeful after Michigan. But things are what they are.

Hillary is winning because she's getting more votes. I don't understand the logic behind feeling like you're opposed to Hillary because you care about the people, but then being so upset when the will of the people is different from what you hoped. The people are how she's winning. They're voting for her. Some hard-working, honest, and patriotic life-long Democrats are voting for Bernie, and some hard-working, honest, and patriotic life-long Democrats are voting for Hillary.

People can disagree without either group being horrible or unAmerican, or not hard-working, honest, or patriotic. They just disagree about which candidate would be a better president.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

19. Spot on. N.T.

[lunamagica]

34. And that's it, in a nutshell. Great post

[kaleckim]

67. I don't get your logic

The poster is asking people for actual reasons, specifics (policy positions and record would be nice, also would be nice to address her decades long corruption and top donors) on why she has more votes, and why people here support her. Shouldn't that be very easy to answer? How many Clinton supporters respond with anything more than bumper stickers?

Yes, she has gotten more votes. WHY?! Can someone be brave enough to get into specifics, or are they afraid (and know deep down inside) that the logic wouldn't hold up to a second of scrutiny, especially for someone that claims to be progressive?

[seabeyond]

75. It has been answered many times and sincerely only to see the waste of time it and

Attacks for reply without consideration. Why should any one bother to put in the effort once again.

[kaleckim]

88. It HASN'T been answered

The overwhelming majority of answers are, I voted for her because she's the best. I voted for her because her resume is amazing. She is getting the most votes because she is getting the most votes. It's amazing that the Democrats elect such a flawed and weak candidate, and have no interest in actually having adult, balanced conversations on her record, top donors, her corruption, her hawkishness, even among people on the left. What is a democracy if these things are front and center when picking the people that are to represent us?

[seabeyond]

90. Bullshit. You aren't listening and why people don't bother. Perfect examplw

[seabeyond]

92. Here is someone who bothered, the other day.

Onlooker (5,485 posts)
7. Bernie fans have basically fallen for their own lies

It's easy to support Hillary on progressive grounds if you:

- have deep admiration for the woman or minority who rises through the incredibly competitive white male establishment to achieve perhaps the most important position in the world.
- identify to some degree with the oppressed groups that in large numbers back Hillary, so I back Hillary as a way of backing them.
- know she's just as about as progressive as anyone on gay rights, civil rights, and womens rights.
- think she's just about as progressive as anyone but Bernie in supporting funding for various social services, including healthcare.
- reluctantly support the US being engaged if necessary in military matters involving threat of genocide or transitioning out of the mess we created under Bush.
- believe Hillary's plans for health care, tuition, and minimum wage all represent a good first step.
- back the full support Hillary gave to the Arab Spring including Libya.
- know that Bill Clinton did an enormous amount for gay rights at a time the country was very homophobic.
- know that Bill Clinton stood up for affirmative action even when Congress and the Supremes were beating it down.
- like the fact that Hillary voted 93% of the time with Sanders.
- believe that Hillary's Wall Street proposals aren't bad, but not as good as Bernie's.
- are comfortable with Hillary's continuation of Obama's energy policies that achieve a good balance between protecting the environment and the economy.
- believe her goal of a 30% reduction in greenhouse gases in 10 years is as lofty as Bernie's, but she supports scientists who favor nuclear energy and limited fracking (which both produce cleaner energy) as part of the transition to clean energy.
- believe that the Clinton family foundation will be fully defensible on ethical and progressive grounds, and will be a campaign asset.
- view Hillary's scandals, including the $40 million taxpayer funded Lewinsky scandal, as a part of a vast right wing conspiracy.
- don't fault her for getting rich off speeches anymore than faulting Gore and Kennedy for getting rich off inheritance or Kerry for getting rich off marriage.
- know that Hillary, like Bernie, has some bad votes, but like where she is now.
- have some legitimate concerns about Bernie, related to issues like guns and immigration, but also some concerns about Hillary.
- think that if the vote tallies are being manipulated by the powers that be, then the only Democrat who has a chance is Hillary.
- respect that she has devoted much of her life to people of every race, nationality, and ethnicity, so has a unique understanding of the world.
- admire her resume.
- believe that a Sanders movement is more powerful as an outsider movement.

It's like Bernie can talk his way out of the voting against the Amber alert, not speaking up on his vote against DOMA, not endorsing gay marriage until after the Vermont Legislature endorsed it, voting to protect the anti-immigrant Minutemen, voting for the $1 trillion stealth bomber program, voting for regime change in Iraq in 1999, voting for war appropriations in 2001, and he's completely forgiven. Any bad vote Hillary made is held up as who she really is. Bernie supporters use a double standard when it comes to Hillary, and personally I think part of the reason for that is ingrained sexism, but that's another point.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1927002

[COLGATE4]

70. Excellent post. Thread winner.

[bullimiami]

15. That is delusional. nt.

[libdem4life]

22. Yeah, where do they get off thinking that farmers and workers are worth

anything to the Third Way...we got ours, sucks to be you...Party. Delusional, indeed.

[Maedhros]

23. Hillary Clinton is getting more votes from Democrats because Democrats are not liberal

or progressive anymore. Most are conservatives, like Hillary.

[GoldenThunder]

24. The term Neo-Liberal alwys confused me a little bit.

Until now. I get it now. The TPP also stands for The Power Principle.

[Buzz Clik]

27. No. She is getting more Democratic votes (by a HUGE percentage) because she's a Democrat...

... and a progressive and represents exactly what MOST progressives want.

Sanders is getting drubbed because he is a socialist pretending (badly) to be a Democrat, and most Democrats don't like his message.

Period.

[Sheepshank]

69. baloney...you are unable to sustain your definition of MOST Democrats

[Orsino]

25. She began the race as a rock-star celebrity against a relative unknown.

Votes really do matter, but she inherited boatloads.

[libdem4life]

44. You're really asking for it. Even the hint that HRC had a jump on Bernie

may bring you the naysayers.

Bernie wouldn't be in the race if he was a traditional, Third Way Democrat. He'd have been locked out like I suspect all the other potential hopefuls were. It's her turn, dammit. Go away.

So, Bernie may get some Left of Center Republicans, and Hillary is actively, with no sense of decorum, going after Republican money and to the Republican Establishment/Bushes for help.

Truly a sad state of Party.

[Orsino]

49. It's a statement of fact.

Her resume is a long one on the national and international scene. She's been a household name longer than some DUers have been alive.

Democratic support was hers by default. That Sanders cut so deeply into it in under a year is a testament to the strength of his message, and to the movement that had been waiting for a candidate like him.

[libdem4life]

52. Ouch, that second sentence...I'm a Boomer. LOL Kidding aside,

the Clinton Machine effectively shut down any primary challengers. They didn't figure in a Bernie Sanders. She was funded to have her coronation wrapped up at least by last month. Now that it's going to go to Convention, she needs a lot more money.

It also gives more time for the investigations to proceed. I wondered if perhaps they weren't stalling a bit for the same reason...not to influence the nomination. Even though it's not political, the timing is by default.

So now, when do they finish up this stuff? And now word slipping out about The Foundation Pay to Play. That could easily extend into after the GE and, in my mind, much more damaging than the email/server situation. Not good for her either way.

But, the question is now, before or after the GE. I'm sure that both is somewhere on someone's table.

[Orsino]

86. I said long ago that there wouldn't be another Obama in 2016 to get in her way.

I was flat wrong. Sanders has also been a bolt from the blue...just not as charismatic or successful against the Machine.

[Demsrule86]

56. People voted for her

You have no idea why they did that...but they did and Bernie has lost. That's all she wrote folks.

[Orsino]

85. We have much more than an idea why.

There are good reasons to support her, but it would be naive to think that both our remaining candidates began this campaign on an equal footing.

That can't help but cheapen the victory, but there's no way around it. It's Sanders' fault for not starting a presidential run a decade or two back, and vor not taking the easy money.

[Buzz Clik]

26. Wait, wait. I voted for HRC because the Dem Party is broken?

Wow.

How completely fucked up does a human being have to be to put thank rank bullshit in print with her name attached?

Yeah, you and the tractor you rode in on, Lorrell.

[CrowCityDem]

28. Here's a thought. Maybe there are fewer Bernie-thinkers than they realized.

[pdsimdars]

33. Hillary Clinton has more votes than than Bernie Sanders because...of election "irregularities"

[liberal N proud]

35. LOL

[Ferd Berfel]

37. exactly

[Ino]

40. Her name recognition...

plus people just don't know him --

which is due to the crappy debate schedule and media complicity in squelching him/promoting her.

[libdem4life]

45. This ^^^^^

[annavictorious]

77. People don't know Sanders

because in his 26 years in congress, he never did a thing to accomplish his agenda.

[KingFlorez]

42. Oh, how dramatic

[libdem4life]

46. That's the best you can do? Dramatic exactly how?

[KingFlorez]

50. Foolishness would have been a better word

Trying to explain away why someone got more votes is one of the silliest things one can do.

[libdem4life]

59. LOL...your words to god's ears. This election season will carry a number

of surprises...it's long from over. We have two of the least favorable/trustworthy candidates running to be the leader of the free world. Now what could possibly go wrong?

[Armstead]

61. "Explain away" is not the same as "explain"

Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan won huge victories.

Is looking at why just making excuses and "explaining away" their wins?

[krawhitham]

47. caucus "votes" are not a true representative of turnout or votes

Do you really believe only 280 people voted in Wyoming?

[msongs]

48. calling voters too stupid to know whats good for themselves. there's a winning strategy nt

[Armstead]

60. Nope -- just denied adequate access to information because of...

political manipulation and the shallow biases of corporate media

Democrats used to say the same things about Republicans.

[Demsrule86]

53. Yeah we get it

You can't have your own way and have St. Bernie as the candidate...so like Susan S who also gave us Bush...you are OK with a Trump presidency. Some Democrat. You don't care who gets hurt or the courts...your anger has blinded you to the fact with five justices picked by any GOP...it won't matter for 20 years or so what Dems try to do. Well, we will have to hope there are more of us and less of you...judging by the primaries, that is likely true. She did get way more votes.

[Blue_Tires]

72. Call me when you create this mythical new party, Hanson

I'll believe it when I see it.

[GoldenThunder]

79. Give me a number...

...I'll put you on speed dial.

[seabeyond]

74. 3 million votes more than Sanders is not a coronation. Sanders wanting to be given candidacy with

Less votes would be a coronation.

[onecaliberal]

76. Independents were locked out of the primary in many states. Guess what,

They vote in the general, and they DONT like her.

[mcar]

78. Because more people voted for her

Math, what a concept.

[GoldenThunder]

81. More people voted for Reagan than my fellow Minnesotan and DFLer Mondale in 1984. LOTS MORE!

That must mean that trickle down is now a raging success, doesn't it.

Oh yes, the math of Trickle Down Economics is exquisitely beautiful. Nobel Prizeworthy in fact.

[mcar]

83. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the OP

But OK.

[baldguy]

82. Know how to fix it? Win an election.

If you can't be bothered to lay the groundwork to WIN, then you're standing outside the tent pissing in. This is something that Sanders & his supporters are having a difficult time understanding.

[treestar]

84. She has more votes because more people voted for her

[NorthCarolina]

89. How many caucus goers turned out in caucus states? Anyone know? -nt-

[masmdu]

93. AGREED...count me in!

[dbackjon]

95. Or Maybe more Democrats prefer Clinton??