2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBefore this election season, 71% of dems never heard of or had no opinion about Bernie.....
Yet he is still taking states from "inevitable" Hillary!
This shows how weak a candidate Hillary is. Like in 2008, an unknown is causing her to struggle.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)you know the rest.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)need to see a dr./dentist
food for their family
warm place to live
all of this is foolishness?? can't be done!!?? you don't want it done??!!
America has the money to help it's people!!
Please don't stay brainwashed or cruel,your whole life,you just may regret some day.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)I am really convinced that they never did.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)However, we are not going to get it as long as the GOP has the House and until we have a population that wants it...Pelosi sacrificed her majority to get health care...I wish it had a public option. However, imperfect though it may be, it has saved thousands perhaps millions of lives. We tried for over a hundred years to get any sort of health care. America does have the money to take care of its own and should;but taxes have to be raised. You won't get the house to part with any money or raise taxes. Thus, we need someone who can work with our existing situation and get some stuff done and stand in the way of the truly awful things the GOP wants to do in the future. We literally stand between starving babies and the GOP...and not voting or voting for Trump is a vote to starve babies. We also need to stop the Gop from packing the courts or any chance of progressive change is dead. I have always thought Hillary can win the GE. I don't believe Bernie could after the swiftboating begins..there is a reason why the GOP wants Bernie. I actually voted for Bernie in Ohio...I knew I could because Ohio would never go for Bernie and I wanted to pull the party a bit left. I always intended to vote for Hillary in the General and so will my kids who like Bernie and are old enough to vote because they are not stupid and understand the Trump danger.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)voice for the people. H is anything but.
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)But my fear with Bernie is that he can not win a general. This election because of the courts is way to important to lose.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)That we are reduced to saving the courts when more Democrats voted for the house than the GOP and but for the gerrymander we would have had it. I think we will take the Senate...assuming Bernie does not blow up the party...say what you will...he serves no purpose now. I believe we are at the beginning of a truly progressive movement but not if we blow this election and lose the courts.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)it won't hurt H,people have already made up their minds.
rock
(13,218 posts)The foolishness is in thinking that Sanders can deliver it (along with everything elese he promises).
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)his ideas,helping the people. The majority of people already want single payer,
Bernie would listen to the will of the people.
H will not do this.She has never said any of these things Bernie has.
So,we will continue to slide further to the right in the dem. party.
rock
(13,218 posts)His approach makes some sense if he were talking an incremental approach (how Hillary does things) but I do not hear this from the Bernie camp, in fact, they tend to pooh-pooh incrementalism. These are (really) huge changes that Bernie is proposing.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)The little guy needs a champion again.It is bad,and not getting
any better for so many.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Yeah, free stuff sucks.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Free Stuff! Get Off My Lawn!
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)The fact of the matter is it is disingenuous- to say the least- to claim that "18 trillion of free stuff" which includes suppsedly 17 trillion in health care spending, is somehow a logical asssement of the proposal when it negates the fact that a single payer plan would eliminate not just the overhead of the private insurance industry (estimated in some cases as up to 20% on top of the other costs) but would also take peoples' insurance premiums out of the equation entirely.
But according to the CDC, total health spending in the US is 3 Trillion dollars, more or less. So to believe this "17 trillion" bullshit, you would have to imagine that putting everyone in the country under a single payer plan would magically multiply total spending on health care costs by nearly SIX FUCKING TIMES.
health care isnt like grass-fed beef. People dont run out and get extra triple bypasses that they dont need just because now they can afford it. And if total spending would go up, what that means is there are a lot of people who ARENT getting the care they need, under the current arrangement.
But my main point is, "FREE STUFF WARRRRGGHHHBLLLLLL" is a boilerplate right wing meme, chief.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Sanders is offering is not what has lead to his new found popularity.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)that is a difference of 15 T
The US budget is 3.8 Trillion. (as of FY 2015 by the way, according to the GAO)
So he was going to spend money at over three times, yes I rounded up to 4, so it is just under 4 times the size of the federal budget.
And you wonder why we have a good chuckle every time you post and show this level of yes, ignorance.
Like yesterday, I am going to offer to you one of these tunnel diggers, just avoid the mantle
It is hot.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Go Vols
(5,902 posts)http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-brasunas/there-is-a-moderate-republican-in-this-race_b_9704194.html
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Duh!
lastone
(588 posts)Than any other Democrat in history, and then we're going to wonder what the f*** happened when Donald f****** Trump walks into the White House and paints everything gold. I'll come back here repeatedly and say I told you so it won't be fun.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)bravo
brooklynite
(94,552 posts)The "started from nothing" line doesn't work anymore.
He;s a serious candidate running a serious campaign; he just doesn't happen to be winning it.
POlitics is a zero-sum game. Only ONE candidate can win. That person happens to be Hillary Clinton.
Logical
(22,457 posts)brooklynite
(94,552 posts)Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)Bernie Sanders is a US Senator. He may be a more powerful US Senator next year than he was last year.
brooklynite
(94,552 posts)I'll be happy to have him back in the Senate. And maybe I'll see him again at a future DSCC event.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...and Democratic-leaning independents:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/189299/presidential-election-2016-key-indicators.aspx?g_source=ELECTION_2016&g_medium=topic&g_campaign=tiles#pcf-dems
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)
In Iowa, American Crossroads is helping Bernie Sanders by depicting Hillary Clinton as a Wall Street insider, Jack Pitney, a political science professor at Claremont McKenna College, wrote on his blog.
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-01-19/republican-operatives-are-trying-to-help-bernie-sanders
American Crossroads has spent money in numerous states. They take credit for how close Arizona was. They should. They gave Sanders a lot of help. Amazing Clinton is walking away with it considering republicans have been helping Sanders literally from the first state.
randome
(34,845 posts)That's why he has fewer endorsements than Ted Cruz. His ideas are great but he is ineffective. That's the simple truth.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is -hockey- Conservative values!"[/center][/font][hr]
reformist2
(9,841 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)And yet he lost the nomination. That's just the way things are.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is -hockey- Conservative values!"[/center][/font][hr]
Logical
(22,457 posts)Sparkly
(24,149 posts)Now I've seen how much he really cares about the issues he claims to champion.
He's lost all my respect.