Hillary flip flops on public option twice within 2 minutes

[Cheese Sandwich]

Hillary might be looking into a public health insurance option for people 55 and up... She would like to get behind it, but there's just no data to support it, but if there were, heck it could be a good idea, she'll look into it. Translation: Not a snowball's chance in hell.

um....I'm also in favor of what's called the public option, so that people can buy into, ya know, Medicare above a certain age, which will then take a lot of the pressure off the cost because the argument is that costs go up because real world experience means that people are getting sicker or the costs have to be spread. I want to get behind that because I don't yet see the data to support that but if you were able to move people 55 or 50 and up who are the biggest users of health care into the Medicare program they would have to buy in but they would be buying in to such a big program that the costs would be, ya know, more distributed, so there's a lot of things I'm looking at to try to deal with exactly the problem you're talking about.

Lovely. Glad to know she's on the case with this health insurance emergency that we are still facing.

[asuhornets]

1. Hillary explains her position on healthcare--Bernie just says free healthcare for all-with no backup

[NWCorona]

2. You obviously aren't listening. nt

[Baobab]

43. Insurance industry made that up. It's FTA-illegal and cant work.

also

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.405.5725

[Cheese Sandwich]

4. Her position is she'll have to look into it, try to maybe see what's happening

[asuhornets]

8. At least she has a realistic plan

You expect the stars, the moon, and the sky from Hillary...But when Bernie speaks --"he's so honest". And you don't even know his plan.

[Cheese Sandwich]

11. I expect health care for everyone.

Those are our demands.

[asuhornets]

12. Demands?

You don't make demands when you are losing. I'm sure when Hillary wins the nomination, she'll work with Sanders on a few issues. But there will be no demands.

[Cheese Sandwich]

14. I'm not with the Sanders campaign.

[asuhornets]

15. who you wit?

[Cheese Sandwich]

18. internet people for health care?

[asuhornets]

21. Say what? n/t

[silvershadow]

35. Yeah. They are called non-partisan voters. There are more of them than there are Democrats,

and no Democrat can win without them. It has been explained over and over for months on end right here on DU.

[Cheese Sandwich]

38. I was just kidding.

As human beings we should all be making that demand of health care for all.

[Armstead]

44. No, human beings are expendable. Consumers must remain captive to a rotten system.

Didn't you get the memo?

[guillaumeb]

27. She has no plan. This "plan" that she talks about is similar to Trump's plan

to make America great again.

[Cheese Sandwich]

40. It does remind me of that. It's all about her and her ability to be a good manager

Trump like to make deals. She likes to "get things done". Same thing.

[Baobab]

45. Single payer works, and its impossible to change it and have it work-

For example, it cannot work alongside insurers. that is guaranteed to fail.

[asuhornets]

62. Why didn't single payer work in Vermont..n/t

[2cannan]

9. She said she was going to "look into" releasing the transcripts. How long has that been? nt

[rhett o rick]

31. How do you guys consistently get the first response spot in less that 2 mins?

Do you have a special app?

And far as Hillary explaining her position on anything, she rambles on and on with just rhetoric. Sanders believes that all Americans should be covered why do you find that so terrible?

[ibegurpard]

3. one of the points of a public option

Is to allow people of any age to buy into it so you don't just have seniors with higher medical costs taking money out of the system but younger healthier people enrolled as well. Her statement is idiotic.

[Cheese Sandwich]

26. Exactly. But she can't support it for all ages because that would threaten insurance companies

Pretty simple.

[Hoyt]

5. That is not a "flip-flop." It's a strong statement on Public Option and the fastest way to single

payer at this point. She recognizes that moving everyone to Medicare for all might not be possible immediately, but moving 50 year olds on up would be a game changer and HUGE. She knows more about health care and what it will take to get through our current Congress and an electorate where over 40% are firmly against single payer. We can stay pure on single payer for all and get nothing, or worse, get the GOPers voucher system. I'd bet if you got Medicare for all, 50 and up, and Medicaid was folded in, we'd have single payer for all in short order and in the interim, premiums for the remaining people would be lower and stable.

[Dawgs]

7. And you trust her?

Wow.

[ibegurpard]

10. moving 50 plus year Olds into it

Would be putting more unhealthy people into the system without any compensating younger people with lower healthcare costs. Stupid idea.

[Hoyt]

13. No, actually you'd squeeze out the non-public option folks in short order.

In a screwed up system like ours, you can't just look at one sector.

[ibegurpard]

17. it would be an enormous expense

That would not be offset by younger healthier people who would still be paying private insurance premiums instead of taxes to get govt healthcare. Terrible idea.

[Hoyt]

22. We are paying it now. Those 50 -- 65 would have to pay premiums to get in. Of course many would

be subsidized. If we are going to subsidize everything over amount X, it doesn't matter if all the sick people are in Plan A, all the super healthy are in Plan B, all the young diabetics are in Plan C, we are pretty much going to pay the same amount. We are trying to get to single payer, by picking off groups that need it most over a relatively short period of time.

[Armstead]

47. There's one problem. Democrats always cave on healthcare.

I know Obamacare...blah. But all that did is add a GOP "solution" and a layer of bureaucracy and complexity designed to protect insurance companies.

There are things the "markets" cannot do well. Healthcare is one of them.

Most of the world knows that, and either have public systems or mixed systems in which the government (public) calls the shots -- not investors.

[Dawgs]

6. Sounds like another Democrat that eventually made the switch to the dark side.

[MisterP]

25. ... Saul Tigh and Palpatine?

[CentralCoaster]

16. FUCKING TRAIN WRECK. With brains like that, we'd have died out as a nation between 1935 and 1940.

"I want to help you folks out, some of you folks, but I need to see some numbers, um, and don't see the data to support that yet."

"Oh, and I have Oscar De La Renta on Speed Dial."

[davidlynch]

19. The OP author has learned to read Clinton-ese Fluently

As I've written elsewhere, notice the wiggle room created by the conditional and tentative way she answered, including phrases "I don't yet see data..." and "if you were able to move...". Whenever you see these conditionals, Hillary is trying to leave the strong impression that she supports it without actually committing. This is what I call a "death and taxes" guarantee.

The Clintons are easy to read because they are addicted to this style of weasel-phrasing. I think they treat it like a sport: how much can you say that is literally true, but leaves the complete opposite impression? The Clintons would be harder to read if they occasionally just lied flatly, but they smugly use this approach, which is highly detectable. I think they do this because they're good at it, they've practiced and they kind of like it.

[rhett o rick]

34. Once you catch on it's easy to spot the "weasel-phrasing", like "I want", "we should have"

"everyone needs", etc. They don't commit to anything. Her 5,000 word on whether she supports fracking is one of the best examples.

[Shadowflash]

20. It doesn't really matter.

We'll never see it.

She isn't even the nominee yet and Trump is pulling even with her in GE polling for key states. I'd worry about Trump's policies (such as they are).

[Cheese Sandwich]

53. Let's hope it doesn't come to that

It's a real possibility though.

[Ferd Berfel]

23. She's taken too much $$ from the 'health' cabal to ever be in a position

to curb their profits.

[pkdu]

51. There it is!!!!! "Cabal"...I win

Tonight's BernieBingo. Thanks for playing.

[Ferd Berfel]

63. Cabal

Interesting that you either refuse to see it, or attempt to laugh it off.


Full Definition of cabal
1
: the artifices and intrigues of a group of persons secretly united in a plot (as to overturn a government); also : a group engaged in such artifices and intrigues

[trudyco]

24. Wouldn't Federal Insurance be better?

Medicare has loadstones around it, doesn't it? Like not being able to negotiate drug prices.

I know Bernie is saying single payer but I like the idea of public option - where it's really an option. Open up Federal Insurance, whatever plan public employees get, and let the private sector compete with it. It's all about options.

[Cheese Sandwich]

50. That would be great if you mean the federal employees insurance, just open it up for everyone.

That would seem to make a huge amount of sense.

[Trust Buster]

28. Hillary hasn't flipped flopped on anything. She has clearly stated that she intends to build on the

ACA. Quit making stuff up.

[Cheese Sandwich]

30. Is she for a public option or not? For all Americans or just over age 55?

Does she think there's evidence to support it, or not? Does she " want to get behind that" or is she actually going to use her power as president to fight for that?

This is real life. People's lives depend on this stuff. It's not a game.

[Trust Buster]

32. She clearly stated in the debates that she is against the public option. She disagrees with

the idea of trashing the President's ACA. She stated that she wants to improve the ACA to cover those not currently covered. She does not support Sanders' idea of a public option because the votes do not exist in Congress to achieve that goal. She has been very clear about that.

[Cheese Sandwich]

33. Then she's definitely flip flopping more than anyone could have even thought possible

It's just totally unreal.

[Trust Buster]

36. Nope, she would not have stood on a debate stage on national television and clearly stated her

opinion if she wished to deceive people.

[mooseprime]

29. At last!!!

A linguistic counterpart to the Möbius strip.

[AzDar]

37. God, she's RIDICULOUS. Hard to crack down on an industry giving you MILLIONS. WHO is buying

this crap??

[Cheese Sandwich]

39. Too many people are buying it apparently.

Or maybe they just don't care about this issue very much. Or maybe they just really prefer warmed over Republican policies.

[EndElectoral]

41. Only twice. She's getting better.

[Dr. Strange]

42. She didn't flip-flop.

She evolved.

[AgingAmerican]

46. She was for it, before she was against it, before she was for it, before she was against it!

[AgingAmerican]

48. Her 'answer' is word salad

[Cheese Sandwich]

49. She got caught because there really is no good answer to the question

Not one that she can give.

The questioner's situation touched on so many different things that are wrong with the health system.

Like the employer mandates, the individual mandates, the high premiums. The clear answer is we're going to let everybody buy insurance from the government. Let everybody buy Medicare. She can't get there though. She just can't get there. Very disappointing.

[Cheese Sandwich]

54. It actually kind of reminded me of some Sarah Palin level nonsense

I'm sure Hillary understands the issue better, but you wouldn't know it from this answer

[AgingAmerican]

55. That's exactly what it reminded me of

Like a lawyers version of Sarah Palin's famous word salad.

[7wo7rees]

52. Wait! This has been her passion since '93!!

This is her best answer?

[Vattel]

56. lol, is that English?

[Ferd Berfel]

57. JUst another example that she can't be trusted

[andym]

58. Remember when Joe Lieberman backed off extending Medicare to 50 somethings

Lieberman was publicly for expanding Medicare to 50 something year old Americans, but as soon as this possibility became a real option and his vote became critical, he backed off and killed it. We were one vote away from having this already.

[Cheese Sandwich]

59. I remember people talking about it.

That was part of Howard Dean's health plan too, when he ran for president.

It's a fine idea if anyone would actually follow through. But these says I'm coming to the opinion that anything good will take a huge fight, we might as well fight for the whole banana. If we have to compromise that's fine, but don't pre-compromise before the battle even begins.

[andym]

60. It came down to the final vote in the Senate on the ACA

Read this:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/joe-lieberman-not-the-man-he-used-to-be-on-medicare-buy-in

"Meet Joe Lieberman, Medicare buy-in advocate. It's the winter of 2000, and Lieberman is pressing flesh and kissing babies in Bangor, Maine as the presidential election approaches. After holding a town hall meeting with voters at Bangor's opera house on Main Street, Lieberman, the Democratic vice presidential nominee, sits down with the local paper to discuss the upcoming election and his ticket's plan to improve the nation's health care system by allowing some younger Americans to "buy in" to the government run program. As his running mate, Al Gore, has been doing on the trail for weeks, Lieberman talks up the value of a buy-in, eloquently arguing that it's a great compromise way to get incremental health care reform past members of Congress wary of a robust health care reform bill. "

"It's not clear exactly when the Lieberman of 2000 turned into the Lieberman of Dec. 14, 2009, but it looks like it wasn't too long ago. In a Sept. 8, 2009 interview with the Connecticut Post, Lieberman outlined his opposition to a public option but suggested a way coverage could be expanded without one: ..By allowing citizens who are not eligible for Medicare or Medicaid to buy in for a rate below the private market, the government can extend coverage to more of those who are currently uninsured, he said..."

and

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/14/health.care.lieberman/
"Dashing the hopes of Democratic lawmakers Sunday, Sen. Joseph Lieberman signaled he would oppose a health care bill that includes a proposal to expand Medicare to people as young as 55."...
"Unanimous Republican opposition so far means Senate Democrats need all 60 votes in their caucus, which includes Lieberman, to pass the sweeping bill."

So close.. if he did not change his mind so strongly it would be the law..

[slipslidingaway]

61. So after all those jumbled words Hillary Might propose we 'allow' those in the population who use ..

the most HC dollars to buy into the Medicare system, which will already be strained with the boomers, and let the for profit companies have the younger and healthier clients?

Do I have that right? Is that a good plan?

We are on year 7 of reaching the annual out of pocket maximum which amounts to well over $63,000 without premiums, which increased $200. per month in January.

We are fortunate to have been able to save for retirement, never thought we would use so much for medical expenses before ever reaching retirement age, but there are many people who have not had that luxury so we are lucky.

Still this is not sustainable which is why many people who file for bankruptcy Had insurance, we can do better, we need someone who is willing to challenge the companies who derive their profits from the suffering of others.