Ralph Nader: Sanders Should Stay in Democratic Race

[madinmaryland]

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/5/10/ralph_nader_sanders_should_stay_in

Ralph, welcome back to Democracy Now! Talk about the state of the presidential race today.

RALPH NADER: Well, the state is that the corporatist and militarist Hillary Clinton is making a premature boast of victory. The only reason she’s ahead is because of two anti-democratic systems: one, the unelected superdelegates, her cronies, mostly, in Congress, who were elected by nobody to be delegates—they were appointed; and second, the closed primaries. Primaries are paid by taxpayers; they should not be closed to independent voters. And if independent voters could have voted in these primaries, Bernie Sanders would have defeated Hillary Clinton. In fact, in one Tuesday a couple weeks ago, he lost four primaries, in Pennsylvania, Delaware, Connecticut, because of closed primaries. The one that was open to independent voters, in Rhode Island, he won. So, I wouldn’t be as boastful as Hillary Clinton.

She’s got to divulge her transcripts. The Wall Street Journal just reported that she is getting more money from Wall Street than all other candidates combined, in the Republican and Democratic Party, running for president. And that’s one reason why she has to divulge those transcripts, which she had her sponsors, the big bankers and other closed business conventions, pay a thousand dollars each for a stenographer to write—to have these stenographic transcripts. So she’s got them. And she’s got to divulge them, so the American people can see how she says one thing in closed doors to the business lobbyists and another thing sweet-talking the public and mimicking the language of Bernie Sanders.

Snip...

Ruh-roh!!!

[Gomez163]

1. So glad Mr. Ruined My Century has weighed in.

[MrMickeysMom]

4. He didn't ruin anyone's century...

... unless you are insulted by an election process that is fair.

As Nader explained about the open primaries and Independents to Amy Goodman this morning...

Well, the state is that the corporatist and militarist Hillary Clinton is making a premature boast of victory. The only reason she’s ahead is because of two anti-democratic systems: one, the unelected superdelegates, her cronies, mostly, in Congress, who were elected by nobody to be delegates—they were appointed; and second, the closed primaries. Primaries are paid by taxpayers; they should not be closed to independent voters. And if independent voters could have voted in these primaries, Bernie Sanders would have defeated Hillary Clinton. In fact, in one Tuesday a couple weeks ago, he lost four primaries, in Pennsylvania, Delaware, Connecticut, because of closed primaries. The one that was open to independent voters, in Rhode Island, he won. So, I wouldn’t be as boastful as Hillary Clinton.

She’s got to divulge her transcripts. The Wall Street Journal just reported that she is getting more money from Wall Street than all other candidates combined, in the Republican and Democratic Party, running for president. And that’s one reason why she has to divulge those transcripts, which she had her sponsors, the big bankers and other closed business conventions, pay a thousand dollars each for a stenographer to write—to have these stenographic transcripts. So she’s got them. And she’s got to divulge them, so the American people can see how she says one thing in closed doors to the business lobbyists and another thing sweet-talking the public and mimicking the language of Bernie Sanders.

[Gomez163]

8. He cost Gore the election in 2000 and he could care less because

it didnt hurt him at all. He is very well off.

[MrMickeysMom]

11. What's the matter with your 16 year old memory?

Or, are you SO young that you do not understand what cost Gore that election?

Hint: It wasn't Nader, but many comments sure like to push that. Keep thinking.... I know you can do it. Come on... I know you can come up with the right answer...

Hint again: Florida Supreme Court re-count of a vote that would have given Gore the presidency.

Didjah Guess this one yet?

[Gomez163]

12. Nader was the difference in Florida.

This time he could cost women the right to choose. He needs to be stopped.

[MrMickeysMom]

14. I give up with your willful ignorance on this one...

The vote in FL would carry Gore, but the SCOTUS stepped in and stopped the re-count.

If you didn't really know that, I feel sorry for you.

[woolldog]

23. Gomez is right.

Fuck Nader. The world would be an immeasurably better place had he not run in 2000 and cost Gore the election.

[MrMickeysMom]

50. I don't think so...

I explained why, and so I don't agree that Gomez is right, and neither are you on this.

By the logic you use, which isn't even the REASON Gore's presidency was stolen, there could be no room for a 3rd, 4th, 5th party candidate. That is undemocratic, and NOT the reason Gore was robbed.

You should take your anger over Ralph Nader and seriously analyze why a 3rd party would ever be blamed for running. That's bitter and it's the very reason the DNC changes the rules. They don't like to consider what rights citizens have to support a platform that STANDS for something.

Just how many times have we voted for the lessor of two bad candidates? You won't pay, but you'll have to explain this to your children as to why their parents pride was more important than a fucking democracy we hold so dearly.

[bjo59]

71. Confidently declaring things doesn't make them true.

[riderinthestorm]

76. It's a myth that Nader cost Gore the election. That's been thoroughly debunked.

http://disinfo.com/2010/11/debunked-the-myth-that-ralph-nader-cost-al-gore-the-2000-election/

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/6/1260721/-The-Nader-Myth

Gore ran a bad campaign and owns it entirely. He lost his own home state of TN and refused to let Bill Clinton campaign for him in Arkansas and lost there too.

[Demsrule86]

89. It is the truth

Nader gave us Bush and all the ensuing misery and the fact he backs Bernie says much about Bernie.

[mcar]

36. Yes he did

I live in Florida and went through the whole debacle. I cannot believe there are still Nader apologists on DU.

[Gomez163]

49. On the good side it ended any chance of Lieberman being President

[Demsrule86]

91. Since Gore is alive

that was never an issue...but it gave us Bush...tax cuts that bankrupted us, Katrina, 9-11, and endless war...which culminated in the meltdown of our economy...I will never forgive Nader or the greens.

[Gomez163]

107. Lieberman as Veep could have been the frontrunner in 2008

[bunnies]

99. Its MATH. As they like to say.

[bjo59]

69. This time he could cost women the right to choose? Where do you come up with this stuff?

[egalitegirl]

92. Nothing stopped Gore from embracing Nader's policies

And nothing prevents the Democratic Party from embracing leftist policies. Why do you complain that people vote against right wing policies?

[WhiteTara]

102. Nadir refused to come into the party to add his voice

he wanted to spoil. He told his room full of supporters "they deserve it" So f*ck Nadir and his horse.

[pressbox69]

19. With friends like Ralph

America doesn't need enemies.

[egalitegirl]

29. Dubya continued Gore's promises

Ralph Nader didn't change anything. Al Gore and George W Bush had the same agenda.

Al Gore voted for Poppy Bush's Iraq war. Al Gore embraced Poppy Bush's "free market solution" for the environmental problem and that got a new name which was "cap and trade" which was nothing but profits for Wall Street. Al Gore came up with the idea of faith based charities and George Bush implemented it. George Bush's implementation of Medicare and Education policies seem like he copied Al Gore but in reality if they were on the same team, 'copied' is the wrong word.

There is a reason that people like Noam Chomsky called the Democratic Party as Republican lite back in 2000.

[mcar]

37. ...

[bjo59]

72. Thank you!

[MadDAsHell]

54. Gore could have not been a shitty candidate.

But he chose to be a shitty candidate. That's on Gore.

[morningfog]

61. That's a lie. Gore won Florida.

[egalitegirl]

87. I respectfully disagree

Ralph Nader deservers credit. Please do not fall for the establishment claim that it was all due to the Republicans. They want to take away attention from Ralph Nader.

Bush won the machine count and Bush was ahead in whatever hand recount had been done. Where the dispute arose was in completing the hand recount. Gore's team wanted to recount only those counties that would help him. The Supreme Court ruled 7-2 that it would violate the Equality Clause in the Constitution. (They also ruled 5-4 as a result of the 7-2 ruling that the recounts must be stopped which is what they quote.)

I have no regrets about Nader playing spoilsport. The whole point of Nader running was to play spoiler and ensure that the Democratic Party is seized by the left. So why shed tears for Gore if he actually lost due to Nader? Let it be a lesson that the Democratic Party needs to move to the left.

[riderinthestorm]

75. It's a myth that Nader cost Gore the election. That's been thoroughly debunked.

http://disinfo.com/2010/11/debunked-the-myth-that-ralph-nader-cost-al-gore-the-2000-election/

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/6/1260721/-The-Nader-Myth

Gore ran a bad campaign. He lost his home state of TN and refused to let Bill Clinton campaign for him in Arkansas and lost there too.

[egalitegirl]

88. I am comfortable with the claim that Nader cost him the election

See post #61 as well. The whole point of Nader running was to ensure that the Democratic Party started listening to the left and accommodated us. Let the party do that.

[gordyfl]

94. Al Gore Tried to Erase the Memory of This

By Compensating With This...





It wasn't quite enough.


And yes, some Independent voters in Florida voted for Nader.

[kaleckim]

16. Nonsense

He has done a thousand times more for this damn country than your corrupt candidate. A lot of the consumer protections we now enjoy were the result of his work, and he played a major role in the creation of things like OSHA and the EPA. He took part in a democracy and got people to vote for him, which happens in a damn democracy. You, for one, should move on from freaking 2000, and also might want to start blaming the Democrats that voted for Bush. Hell, if you want to be really silly, you can blame the small splinter leftist groups in Florida, since they garnered more votes than the official difference between the two candidates.

[gordyfl]

96. Just some of the organizations Ralph Nader founded or helped start:

American Antitrust Institute

Appleseed Foundation

Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest

Aviation Consumer Action Project

Buyers Up

Capitol Hill News Service

Center for Auto Safety

Center for Insurance Research

Center for Justice and Democracy

Center for Science in the Public Interest

Center for Study of Responsive Law

Center for Women Policy Studies

Citizen Action Group

Citizen Advocacy Center

Citizen Utility Boards

Citizen Works

Clean Water Action Project

Congress Project

Congress Watch

Connecticut Citizen Action Group

Corporate Accountability Research Group

Critical Mass Energy Project

Democracy Rising

Disability Rights Center

Equal Justice Foundation

Essential Information

FANS (Fight to Advance the Nation's Sports)

Foundation for Taxpayers and Consumer Rights

Freedom of Information Clearinghouse

Georgia Legal Watch

Global Trade Watch

Health Research Group

Litigation Group

Multinational Monitor

National Citizen's Coalition for Nursing Home Reform

National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest

National Insurance Consumer Organization

Ohio Public Interest Action Group

Organization for Competitive Markets

Pension Rights Center

Princeton Project 55

PROD - truck safety

Public Citizen

Retired Professionals Action Group

Shafeek Nader Trust for the Community Interest

Student Public Interest Research Groups nationwide

Tax Reform Research Group

Telecommunications Research and Action Center

The Visitor's Center

Trial Lawyers for Public Justice

Instrumental in the passing of the following legislation:

Clean Air Act
Clean Water Act
Consumer credit disclosure law
Consumer Product Safety Act
Co-Op Bank Bill
Federal Coal Mine Health and Safety Act
Foreign Corrupt Practices Act
Freedom of Information Act
Funeral home cost disclosure law
Law establishing Environmental Protection Agency
Medical Devices safety
Mine Health and Safety Act
Mobile home safety
National Automobile and Highway Traffic Safety Act
National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act
Natural Gas Pipeline Safety Act
Nuclear power safety
Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSHA)
Pension protection law
Safe Water Drinking Act
Tire safety & grading disclosure law
Whistleblower Protection Act
Wholesome Meat Act
Wholesome Poultry Product Act

[bunnies]

98. Wow. Thats impressive.

Thanks for posting it.

[CBHagman]

59. Well, there are definitely signs that they are strategy-challenged.

"In it to win it" is just a slogan unless there are workable methods to bring about the desired changes.

Given the numbers in 2000, when Gore won the popular vote, yes, the Nader candidacy did make a difference, and moreover no one with glib claims of knowing how one scenario or another might have worked out can really say what a Gore presidency might have been like.

It's sad too that after the Bush years DU has become a place of inward-directed hatred. Perhaps the loss of the common goal of getting through the Dubya years simply revealed fissures that already existed, or perhaps it's just that the angriest voices are the most easily heard.

[Demsrule86]

93. Just like when Kerry lost

They will reveal themselves in a haha gloat.

[Sparkly]

2. Said the man who comes around every 4-8 years to help Republicans

defeat everything he pretends to care about.

[Gomez163]

3. He is a true pestilence.

[MrMickeysMom]

5. With pesky remarks like this...

Well, the two-party tyranny is so exclusionary, of ballot access barriers, keeping independent candidates from being on the debates, and on and on—here we go again—that the Hillary coterie is getting ready basically to say, "Drop out, drop out, drop out, Bernie Sanders." I don’t think anybody should be told to drop out. They’re exercising their First Amendment rights of speech, petition, assembly. You want to oppose them, fine. But to tell them to drop out is to tell them to shut up and give up their First Amendment rights. I wrote—in 2008, I wrote a letter to Hillary Clinton urging her not to drop out when the Obama forces, in June of that year, were telling her to drop out. So I think that’s very anti-democratic and very presumptuous, especially since the only reason Hillary Clinton is ahead now in delegates is because of closed Democratic primaries and the superdelegates, who are her cronies, as I mentioned, mostly in Congress.

[Gomez163]

7. I thought Hillary should have dropped out in March 2008. It was really over then.

[dubyadiprecession]

6. He should stay in as long as he likes...

it will be his decision as to when he wants to break the bad news to his supporters.

[LiberalFighter]

9. Anything that Nader says or writes is not worth hearing or reading.

[Gomez163]

10. Nader indirectly cost us 3000 lives on 9/11. He has blood on his hands.

[pressbox69]

20. Well said

[whatchamacallit]

26. Might be the craziest thing I've read

on DU the internet.

[AzDar]

42. Right?! OMG...

[RufusTFirefly]

44. Admit it: You're actually a logical fallacy disguised as a person n/t

[morningfog]

62. I just got dumber reading that bullshit.

[oasis]

74. So blaming HRC for the invasion of Iraq is also bullshit.

DUers are finally beginning to make sense.

[morningfog]

78. And I'm dumber reading your post.

Jesus this place.

[kaleckim]

17. You people are nuts

The man was instrumental in many of the consumer protection laws that now protect you, and instrumental in the creation of things like the EPA and OSHA. You all throw that away because the Democratic Party couldn't get his supporters to vote for your party, as if the entirety of the left owes YOUR party something and not the other way around.

[farleftlib]

24. Well said

Ralph has done much good that nobody else seemed to care about and it would be a crime
if his legacy was the mistaken notion that he caused Bush to be elected in 2000. Here's a
little trip down memory lane...

Ralph Nader has been called the nation's nag. He denounced soft drinks for containing excessive amounts of sugar (more than nine teaspoons a can). He warned Americans about the health hazards of red dyes used as food colorings and of nitrates used as preservatives in hot dogs. He even denounced high heels: "It is part of the whole tyranny of fashion, where women will inflict pain on themselves ... for what, to please men." Since the mid-1960s, Ralph Nader has been the nation's leading consumer advocate.

An extraordinarily frugal and committed crusader on behalf of the nation's consumers, Nader lived for years in an $80-a-month rooming house and earned about $15,000 a year. He eats in cheap restaurants, has never owned a car, has almost no social life, avoids all junk food, and dresses plainly. In 1983, he was still wearing shoes he had bought while he was in the Army in 1959...

Nader gained public celebrity status when the General Motors Corporation hired a detective to investigate his politics, religion, and sex life. General Motors's chairman was forced to apologize for this invasion of privacy before a Senate subcommittee, and eventually paid Nader a $425,000 settlement. Nader used the money to establish more than two dozen public interest groups. The people who work for these groups are known as "Nader's Raiders."

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtID=2&psid=3351

[kaleckim]

57. Thank you

The man is a hero. He's flawed, but he's human, and so am I. I place a lot of value on what he says.

[SusanCalvin]

53. I don't throw that away.

I appreciate th he good he has done.

That said, I have zero interest in his political opinions.

[Zorra]

86. People who don't like consumer protection laws are entitled to their opinion.

Just like anyone else. Just because someone is a Democrat doesn't mean they automatically support consumer protections, ya know.

For instance, in the example below, Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton are both registered Democrats, but Elizabeth favors consumer protection, while Hillary Clinton opposes it.

Elizabeth Warren’s critique of Hillary Clinton’s 2001 bankruptcy vote

Hillary Clinton pledged to help stop the bill and Warren writes that she later learned the Clinton White House — which had been poised to approve the legislation — turned on a dime after the first lady’s concern became apparent. Bill Clinton vetoed the bill after it passed Congress in his waning days in office.

Warren blames Clinton’s about-face as senator on the impact of campaign contributions. “The bill was essentially the same, but Hillary Rodham Clinton was not,” she wrote. “Hillary Clinton could not afford such a principled position. Campaigns cost money, and that money wasn’t coming from families in financial trouble.”
snip---
But in the endnotes of Warren’s book, she was dismissive of Clinton’s argument that she had improved the bill.

“While this amendment may have provided some political cover, it offers virtually no financial help to single mothers, since the overwhelming majority of ex-husbands don’t pay anything in distributions during bankruptcy,” Warren wrote. “Of far more importance was the fact that the bill would permit credit card companies to compete with women after bankruptcy for their ex-husbands’ limited income, and this provision remained unchanged in the 1998 and 2001 versions of the bill. Senator Clinton claimed that the bill improved circumstances for single mothers, but her view was not shared by any women’s groups or consumer groups.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/02/09/elizabeth-warrens-critique-of-hillary-clintons-2001-bankruptcy-vote/

[Snotcicles]

18. Would you be for burning his books too? nt

edited

[Maedhros]

39. How pretentious!

As if you have anything of value to say.

/ignore list.

[bjo59]

73. Says you.

[gordianot]

84. When my opinion converges with Nader it gives me pause to reconsider my position.

This man's motives are pure willful poison.

[NurseJackie]

13. May I just say to Mr. Nader .... with all due respect ...

[Beacool]

15. This........

I haven't forgotten the 2000 election and how he claimed that there wasn't much difference between Gore and Bush.

[egalitegirl]

30. Gore as Senator voted for Poppy Bush's war

Not much difference between Gore and Bush. Ralph Nader was right. Gore also caused immense damage to the environmental movement by advocating Poppy Bush's agenda of profits for Wall Street as the solution. Cap and trade is Poppy Bush's "free market solution" by another name.

[BeyondGeography]

35. The prime beneficiaries of the Bush tax cuts, you know, the ones Gore steadfastly opposed

think you're quite funny.

[baldguy]

21. Fuck Ralph Nader.

[onehandle]

22. And Sanders wanted to primary Obama.

Two peas in a pod.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. He's right.

[merrily]

27. Surprising that he did not mention that lobbyists are super delegates.

[Ned_Devine]

28. When I read the comments here, I realize this isn't so much a progressive site as a...

...party first cheerleading site. Nader represents everything that liberals are for. But since Al Gore decided to run a weak kneed campaign and allow the recount in Florida to be stopped, they blame Nader. Would Gore have won without Nader? Probably. Would Nader have run if Gore had just stayed true to liberal progressive values? Probably not. This is a democratic party problem, not a Ralph Nader problem. As liberals, if we stand for our true values and not settle for watered down bull, we'll increase our turnout numbers and take control of the levers of power. It's when we settle for the watered down versions of what we really wanted that we get what we deserve.

[egalitegirl]

31. Totally agree, also see

my response in #29 to see a list of Gore's positions in 2000. There is a reason many disillusioned voters were attracted to Nader back then.

[RufusTFirefly]

33. Nader is for ersatz Democrats what immigrants are for Trump supporters

A convenient scapegoat that enables them to avoid confronting some (if you'll pardon the expression) "inconvenient truths."

[G_j]

100. +1

[Maedhros]

41. Nader is my litmus test.

Anyone who blames Nader for Gore's loss immediately goes to the ignore list.

[RufusTFirefly]

43. That's a great rule of thumb.

Saves a lot of needless teeth-gnashing. Well done!

[scscholar]

32. When Nader says you're not pragmatic enough...

wow

[pmorlan1]

34. I suspect

the Nader haters are conservadems and Republican lite Dems. That's the only thing that would explain their delusion that Nader cost Gore the election. I voted for Gore and I know better than that. I almost missed buying Christmas presents watching coverage of the election stolen in Florida.

[dbackjon]

38. FUCK you Nader, you egotistical asshole

No one with a brain listens to you, fuckhead.

[Gothmog]

40. Sanders and Nader have a great deal in common

Sanders and the traitor Nader share a love of stating that there is no difference between the Democratic and Republican parties and have even used the same sad terminology. Sanders first used the same terminology of stating that there are no differences between the Democratic Party and the Republican party when he ran as a spoiler for governor. http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/04/when-bernie-sanders-ran-against-vermont/kNP6xUupbQ3Qbg9UUelvVM/story.html?p1=Article_Trending_Most_Viewed

Hillary Clinton is not the first progressive Democratic woman to be challenged by Bernie Sanders. He ran against me in 1986 when I was running for my second term as governor of Vermont. At that time he had little affinity for the Democratic Party. When advised that his third-party candidacy might result in a Republican victory, he saw no difference between Democrats and Republicans, saying: “It is absolutely fair to say you are dealing with Tweedledum and Tweedledee.”[/div
After Sanders used this termination, Nader joined in first http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jun/30/ralph-nader/nader-almost-said-gore-bush-but-not-quite/

Again and again throughout the campaign, Nader implied that he thought Bush and Gore equally objectionable. "It doesn't matter who is in the White House, Gore or Bush, for the vast majority of government departments and agencies," Nader said in a news conference in September 2000.

"The only difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door," he told supporters in California a month later.

"It's a Tweedle Dee, Tweedle Dum vote," Nader said in Philadelphia four days before the election, repeating a favorite refrain of his. "Both parties are selling our government to big business paymasters. ...That's a pretty serious similarity."

Nader also failed to challenge Sam Donaldson on ABC's This Week when Donaldson said, "You don't think it matters. You've said it doesn't matter to you who is the president of the United States, Bush or Gore."

Nader replied, "Because it's the permanent corporate government that's running the show here ... you can see they're morphing more and more on more and more issues into one corporate party."

Sanders needs to back down from this crap if he wants to speak at the national convention

[hellofromreddit]

55. Sanders needs to back down?

That's a bunch of quotes from Nader, not Sanders. Sanders can't back down from comments he never made.

So what are you even talking about?

[Gothmog]

106. Look again-Sanders used the tweedle dee comment long before Nader

[PDittie]

47. Most of the responses when Nader was mentioned on DU

in years past were like dbakjon's and Gothmog's. Exactly like dbakjon's, in fact.

It's certainly an improvement here IMO that theirs is the minority POV now.

Gothmog just keeps cutting and pasting that screed over and over again, as if it has some special new meaning each time. I don't think he understands that, in the eyes of independents and infrequent voters -- literally millions of Americans who have ceased participating not just in the blue or red options but in the system entirely -- Sanders and Nader are perceived as precisely accurate on the "two sides of the same coin" analogy. It's just one of the reasons why fewer and fewer people vote every single year, and the partisans who are wholly invested in the status quo can't seem to understand why.

More to the point: Sanders and Nader being correct isn't a bad thing (it's an opportunity for a Democrat to distinguish his or her candidacy as different from a Republican's). Unless you're a Clinton supporter, that is.

Clinton's own Republican outreach strategy -- hell, her entire political life -- is the evidence. From Goldwater Girl to Henry Kissinger sycophant to Ted Cruz's former mega-donor James Simons now donating to her... the list, as we all know, is endless.

Here is the disconnect: OF COURSE the two parties are different. They're just not different enough to MAKE a difference to the folks that aren't on the same team, or have quit the game altogether.

Is this really so difficult to understand?

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum..." -- Chomsky

[MisterP]

60. attacking Nader's the Moon landing denial of the Democratic Party

[LWolf]

48. He's right.

I know that puts a bunch of undergarments in a bunch, but so be it.

[SusanCalvin]

51. I have zero interest in any political opinion of Nader's.

I find the fact that Amy interviewed him inexplicable.

[workinclasszero]

56. FO Nader you SOB

You fucked this nation with 8 years of Bush/republican hell, now you want to double down!?

How much blood money is the RNC payin you Nader?

Go to hell asshole!

[MadDAsHell]

58. Wow; this thread's comments are truly revealing how illogical/insane so many on here are.

Either the average IQ on DU has drastically dropped over the years, or over time the average DUer has just become so dillusionally obsessed with the success of "the party" and certain personalities within the party that they've lost any insight into what made the party what it is in the first place (progressive ideals). Or they're trolls that know EXACTLY what they're doing because they realize how effective that will be at destroying the party. It started with Obama in 2008, it's continuing with Clinton in 2016.

Are we at the point where the party platform is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to most DUers as long as they still get to vote for a "D"? Ignorance.

[Demsrule86]

95. platforms are meainingless

If you lose and the GOP gets five SCOTUS picks...Nader gave Bush two. If Bernie spoils this election like Nader, he will give Trump four or five which would end any chance of progressive policy for a generation...to Ralph Nader- I have but two words...fuck you...and I rarely use such language but that sob deserves it.

[Stuckinthebush]

63. Nader. What an ass

Go back to the dark hole you crawled from. I swear I thought he was dead

[doc03]

65. That ass gave us "W" n/t

[riderinthestorm]

77. It's a myth that Nader cost Gore the election. That's been thoroughly debunked.

http://disinfo.com/2010/11/debunked-the-myth-that-ralph-nader-cost-al-gore-the-2000-election/

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/6/1260721/-The-Nader-Myth

Gore ran a bad campaign and owns it entirely. He lost his own home state of TN and refused to let Bill Clinton campaign for him in Arkansas and lost there too.

[egalitegirl]

90. Besides, Gore could have embraced Nader's policies

Had he embraced Nader's policies, he could have got the votes that went to Nader. It is as simple as that.

[VOX]

66. Nader's once-great legacy has completely self-destructed...

He cost Gore the 2000 presidency by siphoning votes in New Hampshire and wonderful Florida.

He now has the credence of a garden snail.

[CobaltBlue]

68. Ralph Nader is correct. Also: No. 1 most-populous state California doesn't vote until 06.07.2016.

[RufusTFirefly]

101. Yes, imagine the hue and cry if California voted in March...

... and the Super Tuesday states voted in June.

Hillary disciples would be bellowing about how un-democratic it is to proclaim a winner before everyone has had a chance to vote.

[MariaThinks]

79. coming from the man who helped destroy the country and let bush in this is a joke

nader only cares for nader

[B Calm]

80. K&R Spot On!

[gordianot]

81. Whenever Ralph Nader says something about anything consider the opposite.

Even when it is a similar position you advocate.

[Demsrule86]

82. Mr. who gave us George W. Bush...

weighs in with advice for another spoiler...Hey, he ruined the early years of the 21st century ...now he wants to help Bernie ruin it for progressives for a generation...when the spoilers elect Trump. Just who I would want on my team...Nader...even the name tastes foul.

[seabeyond]

85. Says the man that will jump into bed with a repug at the drop of a penny.

[AgingAmerican]

105. Sequestration

[gordyfl]

97. Nader's Right

Bernie does so much better with Independents than Hillary.

And "Independent Candidate" Nader should know.

[AgingAmerican]

104. Now we have emotional appeals?

lol

[taught_me_patience]

108. Nader cost us the 2000 election. So fuck him

piece of shit. I couldn't give two shits what that POS has to say about anything.