2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumPlease do not moan to me about Hillary Clinton's problems
"Oh, really? Andrea, in every state that we have won, in 19 states, we have had to take on the entire Democratic establishment. We have had to take on senators and governors and mayors and members of Congress, so please do not moan to me about Hillary Clinton's problems," Sanders said.
"I don't think I was moaning about Hillary Clinton's problems," Mitchell responded.
"I know it's a steep climb. ... We still have the possibility of coming in with the majority of pledged delegates," Sanders added.
Source: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/05/11/bernie_sanders_to_andrea_mitchell_dont_moan_to_me_about_hillary_clintons_problems.html
Agreed Bernie!
brooklynite
(94,485 posts)Renew Deal
(81,852 posts)The same guy rants and raves about a "rigged" system
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)You probably won't believe it but I actually felt sorry for him...desperate and bitter. The problem is he is actively hurting us in the GE effort I do not believe he gives a rats you know what for the people he claims to care about. Berne loves Bernie.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Same result. He knows from what he told Chris he can't win delegate-wise but plans to use polls to appeal to the supers at the convention. I can't think of anything worse for this country or his situation.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I assume you were equally outraged in 2008 when Clinton was saying the same things
Sanders is arguing that SD's who represent states where Sanders won decisively should reflect those results. (He has also said Clinton SD from states where she won decisively should do the same for her.)
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)threatened by a candidate to vote for them. Nor is it as some are now trying to spin, "so they and regular people can both feel warm and fuzzy by being part of the convention."
You see he superdelegates are supposed to support the one that will win the GE and not lose it, current trends show that Sanders would be that guy, of course in order to keep the people fooled that believe they are supposed to vote mostly as tie breakers, (that is not their actual intended purpose)
Sanders will have to bring down that 250+ pledged delegate deficit to a much smaller margin, one in the single digits or double digits perhaps depending on just how unelectable Clinton is in the GE at the time of the convention.
For the record however, again - the superdelegates do have a purpose and it is not a "feel good, I get to be involved!" purpose. It is "about the business of winning again" to quote one of the Committee members that formed the rule change that brought the Superdelegates into being.
DAVID ROHDE: Let me take the second part first. The Republicans havedo have some superdelegates, but itsI believe the number is three per state. So its not very important. Its for the national party representatives from the state.
The reason that the Democrats adopted the superdelegate plan was really because of the possibility of insurgent candidates, not for their own sake, but insurgent candidates who might not be successful in general elections. So it doesnt do the party a lot of good to nominate a candidate that reflects the wishes of the party and then to go on and lose the general election. And the poster child for this, of course, was George McGovern, and thatwho was an insurgent candidate, won out against the party establishment and then got beaten by 20 points in the national election in a gigantic landslide.
So, the Hunt Commission, the commission that was looking at various aspects of the way the party was organized, after the 1980 election, thought that having superdelegatesand theyin the Democratic Party, they are the members of the National Committee, of which there are a little more than 400, Democratic members of the U.S. House, Democratic members of the U.S. Senate and Democratic governors. And that adds up to 712. And the Hunt Commission thought that having those elected officials play a part in choosing the nominee would be a partial balance that would give more weight to the considerations of electability than might otherwise be placed by the delegates that were elected in the primaries and caucuses.
AMY GOODMAN interview FEBRUARY 11, 2016
DAVID ROHDE
professor of political science at Duke University and co-author of a series of books on every national election since 1980.
MATT KARP
assistant professor of history at Princeton University and contributing editor at Jacobin. His most recent article for Jacobin is "The War on Bernie Sanders.
Some history I've been reading regarding the supposed purpose of the Superdelegates and the reason for there existence:
While the first two rationales are more procedural, the latter two have a somewhat more specific outcome in mind. For one thing, in light of what had happened in 1972 and 1980, there was some surprisingly frank discussion about the electability of the eventual nominee:
Gov. James B. Hunt Jr. of North Carolina is chairman of the 69-member commission reviewing party nominating rules for the fourth time since 1969. He began the first regional hearing by saying that the goal was to give ordinary Democrats ''greater faith and confidence in the nominating process.''
Victory Is the Objective
''We're about the business of winning again,'' he said, in describing the objective of the commission, which is to present recommendations for action by the national committee early next year. (NYT, 9/25/81)
Gov. James B. Hunt Jr. of North Carolina, who heads the latest Democratic rule-changing group, an unwieldy, 29-member agglomeration of the innocent and the experienced, describes its task as one of writing ''rules that will help us choose a nominee who can win and who, having won, can govern effectively.'' The rules will probably matter less than the unemployment rate to a Democratic victory in 1984. But the comments underscore a traditional motive for the task of rule-changing the Democratic National Committee will finish in March. Much of this year's deliberations have seemed infused with a desire to deny future nominations to political reincarnations of the Jimmy Carter of 1976. (NYT, 1/27/82)
The concept was spawned at a meeting of party leaders after the Republicans scored smashing victories in the 1980 elections. ''There was a strong feeling,'' he said.
One should also not count one's chickens before they are hatched and the MSM is using fraudulent numbers despite being told directly not to by the DNCs Communications director.
And just recently told by DWS herself not to include superdelegates in their counts on election coverage (I apologize for not finding that clip yet)
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)The nominee should be the one who wins the most delegates period.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)They are supposed to pick the Most electable in the GE, the superdelegates specifically are supposed to pick who they think will win in the GENERAL ELECTION, that is their job, their entire purpose for being created, so what the hell does your response have to do with that whatsoever?
All the eligible voters in the nations cast these things called votes, these votes are tallied, most of these (I know these are big words but bear with me) VOTES are cast by a majority that is neither a member of the Democratic party, nor the (party elite, you are invoking).
I actually personally do not think superdelegates should exist, but they do, and because I don't run the party and neither do you, neither of us can change that.
Knowing they exist whether we like it or not, and knowing their intended purpose (to avoid losing an election via a disaster of a candidate), the only valid arguments one can or should make to them is not, "how much can I bribe you for your vote", or "My family is the mot powerful family in the party and I will destroy you politically if you don't vote for me"
But rather, I can win against the Republican opponent but my adversary can't. Do you get it or not? Or is this discussion way over your head, and I need to explain it as if to a two year old? (so far this post should make perfect sense to even a ten year old.)
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)One would think she would welcome the challenge instead of whining about it. She really would like to have been anointed so she wouldn't have to undergo this terrible inconvenience.
And of course Clinton has Andrea Mitchell on her side, yuck. Maybe her husband will get a position in the Goldman-Sachs administration.
Congrats on getting the first response slot. Do you guys get a special tool to do that? It's happening more and more. How sad that it's that important to you. Especially since you think Clinton has the nomination sewed up.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)We don't give a damn about Bernie ...how he feels etc..boo hoo. We want to win the general, and now he is an obstacle.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)And how would he be an obstacle. Doesn't honest debate build better candidates? Oh yeah, the conservative wing are afraid of debates. They wanted an anointment for their Chosen One.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)where he has done little to nothing to create any sort of working relationship with his peers over his decades in office, and now whines that they are fighting against him (meaning they simply are not voting in his favor)?
Sheesh Bernie, laying the groundwork in any PR job (which after all is a big part of campagning), simply isn't your strong point, is it?
merrily
(45,251 posts)The party is turning off everyone under 40 and quite a few older people as well. Reap. Sow.
brooklynite
(94,485 posts)"Hey! I went out and voted; why didn't my candidate win?"
merrily
(45,251 posts)mock those who don't employ it. That post also sounds like you approve of bad parenting.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)When I spend my hard earned money on a candidate I expect results.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Everyone is against me ... waaaaaa!
Joob
(1,065 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)The sort of entitled spoiled behavior helps no one. He is not entitled to the nomination. He had to win it and has failed so now concede and endorse ...think of the country and not your spoiled self.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Listen to yourself.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Vincardog
(20,234 posts)impressions not your own facts.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)is pretty much the polar opposite of a "fact". You're welcome to your opinion, but youll find out it's a real mistake to try and vault it to the level of objective fact.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)His sarcastic reply was totaly line line with her tone
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Ya don't say.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)It's not a matter of uncomfortable questions.
She was whining that Sanders is mucking things up for Clinton.
He snapped back.
End of story...though I realize "whining" is a good way to dismiss a candidate as less than serious.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/20
merrily
(45,251 posts)the wife of Alan Greenspan.
She's a journalist like I'm a decathalon winner.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)continue this race. She was people to pressure her opponent to quit. Wow, not so tough after all. But she has always been uncomfortable with having competition. She would have preferred to be anointed.
And I am disappointed that some calling themselves Democrats don't support the democratic process.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)Why the hell do people think the nomination for President of the United States should be handed over to Hillary Clinton? I don't get it. Andrea Mitchell & her colleagues are so full of it.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)because she won.
Sparkly
(24,149 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)But I don't think he's delusional, I think he's just lying to keep his delusional supporters sending him money.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)I know a lot of funny math has been posted here in the last few weeks, but that doesn't change the numbers. If you only get your information from DU or other liberal blogs, then it might seem like this is a close race and maybe Bernie is even "winning" because of "momentum" or something. Today the "big" story is that someone related to someone who donated to Hillary had a company that showed up in some Panama Paper. And people think this is going to sink Hillary's campaign, she's going to resign and let Bernie have it. Because some guy nobody heard of is related to someone else who's name showed up somewhere that nobody cares about.
No. It's all delusion. Hillary has this easily. The numbers are the numbers, look at them carefully.
Logical
(22,457 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)How about that?
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)About YouDig
Statistics and Information
Account status: Active
Member since: Mon Apr 18, 2016, 07:35 PM
Number of posts: 384
Number of posts, last 90 days: 384
Favorite forum: General Discussion: Primaries, 365 posts in the last 90 days (95% of total posts)
Favorite group: Hillary Clinton, 3 posts in the last 90 days (1% of total posts)
Last post: Wed May 11, 2016, 01:56 PM
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)myrna minx
(22,772 posts)There are so many very new and very vocal people who are VERY concerned about my $27. It warms the heart, it does.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Jennylynn
(696 posts)mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)sucks like a Hoover in orbit around a black hole. More specifically, she's untrustworthy because of the many cases in which she has lied. Also, she doesn't have a reason to run for prez that she has communicated to people. The rank and file dems seem to have gone for that, but the rest of the country isn't. Her supporters ignore all this.
Make you bed, deal with the bed bugs.
Joob
(1,065 posts)So what now? Hillary going to lie her way out of this one?? Hell, I'd be happy if she just said no and stopped fucking with us.
Sparkly
(24,149 posts)Thank you, RNC.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)All criticisms of Hillary absolutely must be only the work of the GOP.
You're likely in for a ruse awakening when the evidence that many people not of the GOP don't trust her. I wonder what contortions you and the Hillary Devout will twist yourselves into in order to avoid that truth.
Sparkly
(24,149 posts)The memes here are all straight from the rightwing. They've done a thorough job of "catapulting the propaganda," that's for sure.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)That Hillary lies a lot is not a meme, it's a fact.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)I know, I know, it's been quite a while since a Democrat actually fought for something, so I understand why this may frighten and confuse you...
Sparkly
(24,149 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)The list goes on and on.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)so no he is no longer fighting for anyone but himself....selfish and more selfish.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I don't trust that she'll do much of anything to thwart income inequality or take on Wall Street.
In fact, she may even be worse. When she tries to means-test Social Security (effectively killing it), she will have the backing of all the Third Way Democrats and all of the Republicans. If Trump tried that, the Democrats would stand up to him on Party principle and half the Republicans wouldn't want anything to do with his proposals.
uponit7771
(90,329 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)I liked Bernie at one time. As I have stated I voted for him in Ohio.I kind of liked the pushing the party left idea. I knew Bernie would not win Ohio even though it is an open primary. But now after he has lost the primary and refuses to concede...no. I am done with Bernie. I can't stand him. Should he manage to steal the primary which is the only way he could win...IE has fewer delegates than Hillary...I would not vote. He would lose anyway so I don't have to vote for a cheater and overall bad person. I don't vote for people who are selected rather than elected. The only way Bernie would get my vote is to win the delegates. At that point, I would hold my nose and vote for him. In my opinion, he has no shot of winning the GE after the swiftboating coming his way, but if he had the most delegates, I would do my part to stop the horror of a Trump presidency. If he overturned the will of the voters...never.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)whereas she is fighting for herself.
amborin
(16,631 posts)Merryland
(1,134 posts)These faux Democrats who have gained control of my party are full of it.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)This guy would throw away the general and the courts for his own large ego...it is about him. he is a bad person that is clear.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)And I think your idea of a bad person is a little skewed.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Letting the GOP win and destroy a woman's right to choose with five court picks? Bernie means nothing to me. If Bernie continues, you are all finished -there will be no revolution. To take a very winnable election and destroy our chances is just plain stupid on Bernies' part. I used to like Bernie. Now I despise him. He has shown his true colors. The Dems should have thought twice before letting that backstabber into the party.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)It's HER record that is weak.
She can't put the primary away because HER position aren't liked by most of the remaining states.
It's HER flip-flopping that makes people distrust her.
And so on.
Bernie is just presenting an alternative to her weak record.
merrily
(45,251 posts)uponit7771
(90,329 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)pull it out. She want's people to sympathize with her and beg Sanders to quit. She knows she will have a problem with Trump so she wants Sanders to support her. LOL. After the lies and shenanigans that have been pulled on her behalf, that's audacity.
Sparkly
(24,149 posts)for the Democratic nomination at the Democratic convention with Democratic delegates, and beating down the Democratic party and its Democratic front leader at every opportunity, while not helping at all with Congressional races Democrats are competing in.
It would be great if he were a cause for GOOD and actually helping what he claims to care about, but he isn't.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Sparkly
(24,149 posts)Hare Krishna
(58 posts)and how little it goes to downticket races. Very little.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)and a bit too money hungry.
coffeeAM
(180 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)whenever he would come before congress, Bernie GRILLED him.
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)nothing more than a selfish old man who is putting his own desire to stay in the spotlight ahead of the good of the party and the country. How much more evidence do the super delegates need that he is not a loyal party member, and does not deserve any of their votes? Keep talking like this and you will be cutting your 'small thread of a chance'. I mean it...please keep talking!
His idealism was cute for a while, but it's time to grow up. To quote Obama... "If you think that the only way forward is to be as uncompromising as possible, you will feel good about yourself, you will enjoy a certain moral purity, but youre not going to get what you want. And if you dont get what you want long enough, you will eventually think the whole system is rigged. And that will lead to more cynicism, and less participation, and a downward spiral of more injustice and more anger and more despair. And that's never been the source of our progress. That's how we cheat ourselves of progress."
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Who are, apparently, little more than condescending cult followers who care more about shallow bullshit like brand loyalty than genuine progressive values. Sucks to be them...
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Rather than compromise, the DLC/Clinton Democratic Wall St. machine pushes the party to the right on issues related to wealth and power
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Whining, victim, sexism, picking on me, etc. Do they have any agenda they can clearly define? She's equivalent to Trump and his "we're gonna make American great."
Same thing Hillary does. . .slogans, not plans. "we want Wall Street to work for us" as opposed to "split the big banks up". You can say all the words you want, passionately declare your slogans, but none of that compares to listing what you want to do in practical terms.
Justice
(7,185 posts)ecstatic
(32,677 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Sen Sanders...doesn't give a damn about the general...this is all spite and bitterness on his part. His ego is more important than stopping Trump. It is a terrible shame he ever got in...he now makes me officially sick.
Hare Krishna
(58 posts)You are a fake Bernie supporter if you said "I voted for Bernie but"... it ends there.. no-one's buying your bullshit that you're selling, friend.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)I never thought he would take Ohio...not his kind of place although we do have open primaries and if the cons were not busy voting for Trump they would have screwed around with our primary. I wanted to move Hillary left...I like Bernie's ideas... but don't think he can win a general. I still don't. So my college kids and I went out and voted for Bernie...they were thrilled when I voted for him. Their next suggestion was a tattoo in honor of the occasion, but I hate needles. My kids by the way still like Bernie. I don't. He has seriously annoyed me. I see a woman's right to choose among other things disappearing if Trump gets elected, and I just think Bernie is hurting the effort to win the general. The kids will vote for Hillary because they have a brain. I am also sick of the blackmailing...he lost. That is it. I loved Howard Dean in 04 and felt awful when he did not win. So I know it hurts.
Hare Krishna
(58 posts)ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)He has had the majority of the Dem establishment, Hillary and her supporters, the MSM, and slime balls like David Brock on his ass since day 1. Oh - and lack of name recognition with much of the American electorate as well as the SuperDs mostly being pre pledged to Hillary before a single vote was cast. She could NOT have done what he has done. Not in a million years!
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Last edited Thu May 12, 2016, 03:16 PM - Edit history (1)
I'll edit this into this post. Someone posted an OP about those vote totals and their propaganda
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1948469
dana_b
(11,546 posts)she could not have won without them
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)in GDP there are people saying that hundreds of thousands of votes that Bernie obtained in the caucuses (which are not counted in the pop vote totals) don't matter. Of course not. Only votes that go to Queen Hillary matter.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)if he had been a Democrat to begin with, and not become one out of self interest when he decided to run for president.
He's entitled to stay in the race until the last state has voted, but he's misguided if he really thinks that the super delegates are going to hand him the nomination when he lags in pledged delegates and is not even close in the popular vote.
Oh, and his response to Andrea Mitchell was rude.
markpkessinger
(8,392 posts)ecstatic
(32,677 posts)He loses it and literally shouts over anyone who dares to question his version of reality. It's either a bullying technique or he's just super defensive and thin skinned, like Trump.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,338 posts)Thanks for the thread, Joob.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)LeftRant
(524 posts)I'd have to hear the audio maybe.
Edit:I listened. It wasn't that bad, and she shouldn't be questioning his candidacy if she's impartial :p
Number23
(24,544 posts)Way to go, Bernie! Keep fighting all those damn... DEMOCRATS.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)and insanity of someone running to lead the DEMOCRATIC PARTY saying how often and how hard he's had to fight DEMOCRATS.
That, better than anything in the world, explains why he is losing this primary so incredibly badly and why Sanders' support among the true Democratic base has been abysmal from Day 1.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)trying to take our party back. It isn't irony at all. I know who the traditional Democratic base is, because I am one, and have been for 50+ years.
Number23
(24,544 posts)And if you consider minorities and women the groups you "need to take the Democratic party back from" then that too explains why Sanders is getting his behind handed to him.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)But, you knew that.
Number23
(24,544 posts)first damn.
And if you want to deny that it is black and Hispanic voters, gay voters and women that are giving Hillary the vote and that Sanders' appeal appears to be primarily limited to white men, no cares about that either.
Joob
(1,065 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)If you're going to chime into a conversation all late and shit, you could at least know what you're talking about.
Joob
(1,065 posts)WTF is right. Democratic establishment has openly opposed Bernie. It will be their own demise if he loses.
Number23
(24,544 posts)women and gay voters.
If the party doesn't want to "save itself" according to your logic, it may have less to do with saving itself as it does with the caliber of the person chosen by outsiders to do the "saving".
Vinca
(50,255 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)myself from throwing a shoe at the TV.
Justice
(7,185 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Response to Justice (Reply #75)
cyberpj This message was self-deleted by its author.