2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy the recent Comey and Hayden pushback on Hillary's email claims?
This seems very significant. For some time Hillary and her surrogates have been minmizing the situation as nothing unusual or serious, just a "security inquiry". They've offered a fig leaf spin that no laws were "willfully" broken.
Now FBI director Comey has shot that down. This is a criminal investigation. The FBI doesn't do inquiries.
Even more significant, former NSA director Hayden has said in essence that Hillary has almost certainly committed crimes.
Both of these events are somewhat unusual. The timing is what interests me with two top people in the security area nearly simultaneously poking holes in the Clinton depiction of events.
Faux pas
(14,668 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)On and investigate Sanders and his campaign funding violations.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)You Hillary fans can never address her mistakes, you simply deflect to some bullshit side issue, rationalize it away, or call it a right wing smear. But, keep your head in the sand, I'm sure it's cool under there.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)... into our ears and yell "la la la la la !!!!111!!1!!1!!".
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)By the FBI. Now can you admit the campaign find raising problems Sanders is having? This is the second letter sent by the FEC, he wants to postpone his response until later, we need the truth now.
840high
(17,196 posts)an investigation.
kaleckim
(651 posts)David Brock, an immoral rat and a Clinton campaign surrogate, is the person behind the group that filed the damn complaint! You people have no shame.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Accept the donations. You can call David Brock all the names you, it does not correct the campaign fund fraud which has happened in Sanders campaign.
kaleckim
(651 posts)Do you lie first thing in the morning? He hasn't be shown to commit campaign fraud, and if you cared about stuff like that you certainly wouldn't be backing the corrupt candidate you support. Under actual FBI investigation, has gotten more money from Wall Street than all the other candidates combined this election cycle, largest donors are banks over her career, her foundation is swamp, she's used state parties to get around campaign finance laws, etc.
Brock is the person behind the filing and he is a damn rat. Hasn't progressed as a human being from the person that attacked and slimmed Anita Hill.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/05/11/1525428/-FEC-releases-damning-639-pages-of-violations-by-Bernie-Sanders-campaign
Claiming Brock is responsible, the campaign has agreed to pay back money, guess the $27 average donation only happened in certain cases. Campaign finance is one of Sanders issues, he is not following the current rules and he wants more reform.
TheBlackAdder
(28,186 posts).
.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)If campaign reform is important then follow the current rules.
TimPlo
(443 posts)Do you think spreading lies about Sanders when most of his supporters have looked this up and saw that it is common issue due to people over donating for what ever reason. the campaign has already addressed issues like this over past several months and sent the refunds back. It happens in every campaign to some degree. With Sanders not taking money from a few wealthy people that are trying to bribe him but from 1000000 of people the have this issue more each month. So do think your lies are going to influence someone or do you just like to lie about stuff?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)I am not spreading lies about Sanders, I have looked at the list sent to the campaign. BTW, the campaign has ask for an extension on the second letter.
Autumn
(45,062 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)I think you guys are reaching the end of the rope and have near zero credibility at this point.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)One of his core issues campaign finance, the FEC has sent two letters, this is appearing to be fraud in for the fact it occurred after the first letter was sent.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Sometimes donors went over their limit and the money had to be returned. Two letters to a candidate does not indicate anything approaching fraud. But you can try to roll with that meme before the FBI report on Hillary if you want.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Sanders wants more time to answer the FEC.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)But, please , seize on the meme. Maybe, you'll confuse a few California voters. A few.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Violations can be penaties or imprisonment.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Dream on.
dchill
(38,474 posts)And the violations are the responsibility of the donors, not the campaign. The moneys will be returned, and no one will face charges.
But you knew that, right?
NewImproved Deal
(534 posts)Why would he want Clinton Sleaze tainting his legacy? Not even the Former First Lady is above the Law...
[link:|
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Last edited Fri May 13, 2016, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)
He knew she wasn't going to answer so what was the purpose in asking the question?
B2G
(9,766 posts)Seems to have worked.
Huma is the real wildcard here. She's the only aid who got her own lawyer. Smart move, IMO. All of the rest are essentially being represented by someone who only has Hillary's interests at heart, not theirs.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)She knows all the State Department details and the Clinton Foundation details and the details of where they intersected. Her lawyer will not advise her to lie to protect Hillary.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I think the fact that all of his emails are erased says a lot about his guilt and what he knows.
Between Abedin and Pagliano, I sense there'd be some real cause for alarm.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)He wanted to see how strongly she would react. Like a doctor poking your stomach to see where it hurts.
The fact that she left the room means (as leveymg has written here) that this was a very vulnerable area of risk for her.
It was a big tell.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)And why would anybody think the FBI will actually agree to put some questions "off limits?"
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)Using that idiot to support your theory is embarrassing.
Put another way, it says a lot more about you than it does about Hillary.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The FBI is investigating Hillary, not me. That says a lot more about Hillary than you will ever admit.
Hayden was the director of NSA. He probably knows the security laws inside and out. I understand how an ad hominem attack might make you feel better.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)Example - Fourth Amendment
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Anyone who repeatedly denies the presence of the phrase "probable cause" in the Fourth Amendment and at the same time has the audacity to brag about his knowledge of the Constitution has zero credibility in my book. He's either stupid, spineless, or deeply deceitful.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)But I would bet he knows what constitutes a breach of security laws--he was always looking for a way to get around them.
Anyone heading a spy agency is deceitful by definition.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)they said something stupid in the past. In that case, no one should be listened to. Obama told labor he would not negotiate any new trade deals without them being present at the table. Also promised them card check. After the election he never did one thing in that direction. But do I listen to him and his explanation of things? Yes, but I also take it with a grain of salt.
Listening to what Hayden said, it sounds correct to me and right in line with what I have heard other high ranking officials say.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)means indictment is just around the corner...
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)6chars
(3,967 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)She lied @ her aides having even been contacted by the FBI, exposed on that lie within 48 hours iirc.
We certainly didn't know her aides had already been questioned for weeks already. Some several times.
How do we know Hillary hasn't already been questioned and the pushback isn't in response to her continuing to try to re-frame this as just a "security inquiry"? Are they getting irritated at her deliberate efforts to scoff at their work? Because I got the impression Comey in particular was purposefully deliberate in making that point.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The security people are not happy having their work characterized as inconsequential. Maybe the two statements are a coincidence, but they may also be a tremor before the earthquake.
Comey went out of his way to say this was a serious investigation when he didn't really have to.
Bob41213
(491 posts)You know, like "Hey, if you guys want to nominate someone under a FBI investigation, be my guest."
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)is done.
4139
(1,893 posts)I would read too much into it.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)4139
(1,893 posts)iPhones.
The presser was not on 'this issue'... Apparently he does the little pressers
All the time.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Government works. Departments do pressers all the time. When an issue like this one has to be batted down due to mischaracterization, that is actually important. Like a 6 in a 10 scale. DOJ does hate to adress high profile ongoing investigations. Take a guess if this one is a high profile one?
840high
(17,196 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)and, Comey wanted to make sure he "corrected it" and on the CNBC interview Sid, for the first time, said "Investigation."
Michael Haydon is another issue.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)But Obama HAS to be working behind the scenes to get resolution on this (positive or negative). If it's post-convention and she, as our nominee, is in trouble, it's his legacy that gets halted fast.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)As usual, other people are the ones who get caught up in the Clinton schemes.
She's already tarnished his legacy somewhat just for being stupid enough to go with a private server which led to an FBI investigation. It's the typical Clintonian hide everything, deny everything approach. They may not be guilty but their every move screams "I am a crook".
JudyM
(29,233 posts)That says it all, right there. That means FBI believes they have ample evidence for prosecution. Only question is whether the AG or POTUS will put on the brakes.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)According to recent newspaper accounts that HRC was encouraging Blumenthal to keep working contacts to get leaks from the CIA.
IMO, Hayden is just making sure people are aware that -people- are aware.
amborin
(16,631 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)bigtree
(85,991 posts)...it's clear that you have absolutely zero idea who you're attacking and why.
Not much of a progressive, are you, taking Hayden at his word?
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...like the one that occurred circa 2003 thru 2006, over Cheney-Rumsfeld outing of the CIA's worldwide WMD counter-proliferation network, headed by Valerie Plame. A second issue was likely CIA opposition to the invasion of Iraq (or at least to the manufactured WMD issue). A third was likely Cheney-Rumsfeld's intention to nuke Iran. This was very talked about in 2006, and it's my opinion that Bush Sr. intervened with his "Iraq Study Group" (spring '06)--of which Leon Panetta, future CIA Director and then Pentagon Chief under Obama, was a member--to save Jr.'s administration and maybe Jr's ass, from CIA retaliation, and to stop Cheney-Rumsfeld's armageddonish interference in the flow of Iranian oil to China.
Michael Hayden doesn't make idle chitcat about FBI investigations. He was NSA Director '99 to '05 and CIA Director '06 to '09 (after which Panetta took over). Hayden's too deep. He wouldn't fool around with the things he said in the Tech Crunch interview. He was on a mission. His content was the seriousness of what Clinton did. And he said it would be absurd to presume that the Chinese and other foreign governments didn't get into her private server.
His mission may have been to pressure the FBI to threaten Clinton with an indictment recommendation, in order to elicit rock-solid guarantees from her of no private servers in the White House and someone to watch over her (and her Neo-Con pals, and maybe Bill)--like I think Leon Panetta was doing, of Bill, back in the day. Panetta was Bill's chief of staff. I think Panetta was CIA even then, which is why CIA employees welcomed him with open arms and champagne corks popping when he returned as CIA Director in '09, according to reports (that, and relief that Cheney-Rumsfeld were gone).
Or, Hayden's mission may have been to get the word out that Hillary is done. They don't want her as president. And something's holding things up at the FBI. That could be AG Loretta Lynch (a Clinton supporter), the one who would act on an FBI recommendation of indictment, who may be trying to protect Clinton.
I favor the former, that the CIA/NSA want something from Clinton. And what they may want--besides guarantees about sensitive information and maybe about rogue operations (like Blumenthal's in Libya)--goes back to those events in 2006. They fear the Neo-Con influence on Clinton--and they do have reason to. She has Robert Kagan (chief of "The Project for a New American Century"--Cheney-Rumsfeld's blueprint for world domination) as an advisor.
The Clinton supporters in this thread who poo-poo Michael Hayden's remarks (which occurred yesterday) are fools or simply blind partisans. I don't like the man either. I don't like the CIA. I don't like the NSA. I don't like the FBI. But that doesn't mean that I don't pay attention to what they're up to, and try, as well as I can, as an ordinary citizen, to understand what's going on with our government. It's our duty, to my mind. Further, naive Clinton supporters, who are not paid bots, are going to feel crushed if this ton of bricks comes down on their candidate.
It probably won't--because the rule now is "we need to look forward not backward" on the crimes of the rich and the powerful. Clinton is now a player among the rich and the powerful. She's a made woman. Half a billion dollars from Goldman Sachs, et al, into her pocket, in 2 years time. That's some salary. However, if she is caught between more powerful forces--as I've suggested, CIA vs Neo-Cons--she may go down. There is still time for them to do it and not risk President Trump (even more unpredictable), since Bernie Sanders is still viable, is still winning primaries, refuses to quit and demolishes Trump in all polls.
It's hard to believe that any of the powers-behind-the-throne in Washington DC would want Sanders, but, then, he's so honest, why wouldn't they? He would be very straightforward with them. They would know exactly where they stand. Even empirebots are human beings. Even they might find honesty refreshing. Even they--or some of them--might be disgusted by the corruption all around them.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...to wrap it up and make it go away.
Doesn't sound like he's interested in complying.