Democrats no longer FIGHT, now we COMPROMISE

[Cosmic Kitten]

SO, the new narrative is *compromise*.

Democrats apparently no longer
believe in anything worthy of
FIGHTING for, simply settle for
the warm purple zone of compromise...

you are getting sleeeepy now.
Gently close your eyes, and imagine
a tranquil place and allow your
concerns to dissolve.
Breath easy, compromise.

zzzzzzzzttt!

NO! Wait! eff that!

There is plenty worth fighting for.
First and foremost, having a VOICE
and a seat at the table where
the decisions that effect us and
future generations are made.

Fight against the rigged economy.

Fight for living wages.

Fight for human rights and equality

Fight to salvage our environment and our lives.

Some issues are to important
to compromise on.

Forget those who insist we *grow up*
and accept *compromise* rather than
fight for our values and causes which
define us as civilized, rational, caring beings.

Don't give in without a fight!

[Jackie Wilson Said]

1. NOt voting for the Dem in November is way worse than compromise.

[Cosmic Kitten]

10. Nice straw man ya got there

Capitulation is not compromise

[Jackie Wilson Said]

15. What process of thinking are you using that allows you to deny the reality of what Drumpf will do?

[basselope]

65. He will most likely do nothing

Dems will win in 2018 and he will be a lame duck for 2 years.

[Katashi_itto]

79. -20 points Strawman being used.

[B Calm]

81. You mean voting for a DINO?

[arcane1]

2. Indeed, Obama was demanding "bipartisan" solutions from the start, even when Dems had the majority.

It's an insane concept whereby nothing has any validity unless republicans agree with it.

It's a scam.

[katsy]

5. Yep. And when no one is fighting for the voters

the voters stay home.

We lose when we're not fighting for the greater good. We lose when our leaders aren't on the side of working people and the poor.

[Cosmic Kitten]

12. It's a scam, a sell out, a betrayal of what we voted for

THIS is what we voted FOR!
It's not what we got.



Fool me once...won't get fooled again

[Jackie Wilson Said]

16. So Obama is a scam too. uh huh

[Cosmic Kitten]

24. How many campaign promises did he break?

edit: BTW, he's a self identified
as a moderate republican...

Obama says he'd be seen as moderate Republican in 1980s
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/272957-obama-says-his-economic-policies-so-mainstream-hed-be-seen-as-moderate-republican-in-1980s

so there's that

[Jackie Wilson Said]

27. Thanks for not hiding your hate of Obama...it all makes sense now.

[Cosmic Kitten]

35. So disagreement is HATE in your mind.

Got it.

There's that binary thinking again.
Your with us or against us!

GWB taught you well

[Jackie Wilson Said]

37. NO, it isnt, but your hatred of Obama and Hillary is clear. If only you

could see politics for what it is.

[Cosmic Kitten]

53. You putting words in my mouth and emotions in my heart?

I think you're trying to smear me!


So dear, what are *politics*?

Is fascism *politics*?

Is authoritarianism *politics*?

What about religion...
is religion politics?

Guess it depends on who you ask, eh?
Moral relativism is no virtue, sweety.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

55. Laughing again, Drumpf plans on deporting 11 million and you are laughing.

This is not funny

[Katashi_itto]

80. - 20 points use of non sequitur

[puffy socks]

51. Oh. my. God.

You mean to say Obama couldn't get everything he wanted done instantly with half our Congress full of Republicans?

[TwilightZone]

28. He ran on bringing people together and working across the aisle. His book is loaded with calls

for bipartisanship and cooperation. His keynote speech at the '04 convention was all about unity.

"Well, I say to them tonight, there is not a liberal America and a conservative America — there is the United States of America."

If you didn't know that his entire political belief system was built on bringing people together, you couldn't have been paying much attention.

[arcane1]

31. I saw through him from the start, and never fell for the belief that he was some liberal savior.

And too many people are making that same mistake with Clinton.

[TwilightZone]

34. There are two candidates left in this election who are seen as saviors...

and Clinton isn't one of them. Your projection is rather amusing.

[TwilightZone]

36. There was nothing to see through. You didn't see at all.

You clearly didn't want to. Obviously, little has changed.

[arcane1]

38. How many times are you going to reply to me? He's a centrist, and I knew it. Many of us did.

Why that's suddenly controversial is a mystery to me.

[TwilightZone]

42. He was completely open about it.

You didn't see through shit.

[arcane1]

45. And yet millions of people projected their fantasies on to him. That's my point.

People saw words like "change" and actually believed those words, and took them seriously. I did not.

[TwilightZone]

72. No, your point was that Obama initially looked for bipartisanship

and you acted completely surprised because you expected something different.

If you misinterpreted (or, more likely, ignored) what was clearly obvious, it's on you, not Obama. Trying to blame his supporters is pretty silly.

[Cosmic Kitten]

44. Unity to protect banks and continue the M.E. fiasco

Dealing with war criminals,
not so much.

And as to *bringing people together*
how did that work out?

Democrats got destroyed in congress
under his administration...
with help from DWS.

Now it's Hillary's turn
to finish the job?

[NCTraveler]

61. I agree with you to an extent and have written about it here.

His first two years he went to congress with what he wanted. You alway go in much further. Poor negotiating. He has now admitted it himself.

[CrowCityDem]

3. Remember when people were saying...

single payer is the only health care proposal we can possibly support, because it would be immoral to let people suffer under the current system? How would that feel to have fought for single payer, gotten nothing passed, and being in the pre-Obamacare status quo for another generation?

Compromise is not a dirty word. Taking half a step towards progress is better than standing still, or even going backwards.

I feel sorry for the people who can't see that.

[BillZBubb]

29. Obamacare is a mess. It has temporarily helped a lot of people, but it won't last.

The very thing that would have made it a success was compromised away before the fight even began. The minimum requirement was a strong public option--and Obama killed that. It would have forced insurance companies to keep rates reasonable. Now the insurance companies have begun raising the rates at extreme levels. The government subsidies won't be able to keep up.

NOT ONE REPUBLICAN VOTED FOR OBAMACARE--NOT ONE! So why were we compromising?

Worse yet, Obamacare is going to give "government" health care a very bad name. It will be in a perpetual battle to stay viable, with the republicans using every flaw to bring it down.

This kind of Third Way crap is like building a bridge half way across a river. Sometimes half-steps are foolish and counterproductive.

I feel sorry for people who don't face facts.

[CrowCityDem]

41. Why didn't we pass a public option? Easy. There weren't enough votes, even among Dems.

Have we forgotten that it was nearly impossible to wrangle the votes needed to pass what we got? It was hardly a foregone conclusion, and that was before Ted Kennedy passed away. Once Scott Brown was in office, there wasn't a chance in hell of passing anything more liberal than what we got.

So I would ask again, how would it have been better to fight for the public option and not gotten anything at all passed, as opposed to at least getting what we did and helping millions of people?

[BillZBubb]

57. Your question is bullshit.

We could have fought for the public option from the beginning. Obama could have brought the Third Way corporate Democrats to fall in line with enough pressure. He also could have gotten Snowe and possibly Collins from the R side with enough PUBLIC pressure.

And your claim that we then would have gotten nothing passed is bullshit. We'd have got something passed, something better.

[CrowCityDem]

67. It's fantasy to think moderates and conservatives could have voted for a more liberal bill.

The idea that public pressure will force them into line doesn't have any bearing in reality. Remember after Sandy Hook, when 90% of the country supported enhanced background checks. That sure worked, huh?

[AZ Progressive]

4. Rich Democrats who don't give a shit about average Americans don't have an incentive to fight

[Cosmic Kitten]

14. They are FIGHTING... against average citizens...and winning

Those wealthy Dems
are the ones insisting
that we compromise,
thus sealing our fate.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

19. OH MY GOD

Sealing your fate and you will let Drumpf take over?

You did NOT say that

[Cosmic Kitten]

23. Hillary is not fighting for anything but her own welfare

Oh, wait...
she did fight for the Iraq war!

Living wages, not so much

Binary mindsets such as yours
is what ails public discourse

[NCTraveler]

73. I can list off many wealthy Democrats fighting hard for us.

Let's just end that argument by starting with Elizabeth Warren.

[salinsky]

6. We can do both ... nt

[dchill]

7. While moving incrementally to the right.

[Cosmic Kitten]

13. +1, it's what has been happening

Enough is enough

[bobthedrummer]

8. Hillary Clinton and the End of the Democratic Party (Rob Urie May 6, 2016)

"...the Democratic Party is the Party of Wall Street and of corporate America."

That's what the Third Wayers have brought about, isn't it?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/06/hillary-clinton-and-the-end-of-the-democratic-party

[BillZBubb]

30. It's the New Democratic party. But it isn't improved, it's a mess.

[B Calm]

83. +1

[guillaumeb]

9. Recommended and well said.

And this needs to be repeated at DU to the many incrementalists who are endlessly ready to compromise on everything in the name of electoral success.

This type of corporate friendly talk is part of the reason for voter apathy.

[Cosmic Kitten]

18. Yep, lulling the populous to sleep and into apathy

[puffy socks]

11. We have always had to compromise thats part of the fight.

The problem being that so many don't understand how to "fight" .
We now have people on the left pushing the start of a left wing Tea party equivalent.. Look at the Tea Party today.

Their demise is due to being too stubborn and insisting that only pure conservatives were really Republicans everyone else was a RINO...sound familiar?

[arcane1]

17. Compromise isn't supposed to start by giving the other side what they want, in advance.

That's not negotiation, that's theater.

[puffy socks]

47. Who said it was?

[Cosmic Kitten]

21. Bull crap! Civil rights battles were fought for

not compromised for.

Maybe we should tell women
reproductive rights are complicated...
compromise with regressive ideologues.

Minorities need not worry about discrimination
just get in the back of the bus, right puffy?
Just compromise, you'll still get a ride to your
wage slavery job.

[puffy socks]

33. They had to compromise to get things passed.

"On May 26, Senator Dirksen introduced the bi-partisan Dirksen-Mansfield-Kuchel-Humphrey compromise bill as a substitute for the original version.
Previously an opponent of civil rights legislation, Senator Dirksen urged Republicans to support the bill as “an idea whose time has come.” On June 10, after a prolonged filibuster, the Senate invoked cloture, thereby cutting off debate. On June 19, exactly one year after President Kennedy’s proposal, the compromise bill passed the Senate by a vote of 73 to 27. House approval followed, and on July 2 President Johnson signed the bill into law. "

[arcane1]

39. It says it right there: "as a substitute for the original version"

[puffy socks]

48. Right it was a COMPROMISE

that was signed in as a substitute.

[arcane1]

52. Exactly. They didn't start with it. They negotiated.

That's how it's supposed to work when done honestly.

[BillZBubb]

40. What a foolish comment.

You fight like hell first, then you compromise.

The right doesn't want any compromise, just fight.

The left wants the good, honest fight and then compromise where we must but having won meaningful gains. The Third Way doesn't fight, all they ask for is enough from the right to show we got something, no matter how meager.

[puffy socks]

46. "The right doesn't want any compromise, just fight."

and what is happening to the right wing right now?


Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that. MLK

[BillZBubb]

54. Oh, Geez you think anything happening on the right is because they won't compromise with the Dems?

They still control both houses of congress and have for a while. And most governorships and statehouses. There party is actually in better shape than ours except at the presidential level.

You want to make this about "hate". It isn't. It is about right and wrong. No wonder you don't understand the situation.

[puffy socks]

84. Their party is in better

shape because they have teamed up since the culture war...which is precisely about hating a group of people . YOU don't get it. you either are too young to have lived through it, or are just naive as they come.
Learn some history. Geez


Patrick Buchanan Culture War Speech Part 1

[TheKentuckian]

82. Both houses of Congress, the majority of state legislatures, the majority of Governors,

ideological dominance for decades, and a weak ass "me too" opposition that has ceded the entire debate that isn't nailed down into demographics?

Hell, they have a crazy, loudmouth huckster of a four time bankrupt billionaire reality TV host for a candidate that has more than a puncher's chance of winning candidate for President.

I'm not sure what you are looking at.

[puffy socks]

85. Its called the whole picture and learning from the past.

This has been building for years . the public was lied into complacency.
the ultra Progressives today sound exactly like ultra conservatives...it's all the government's fault..

No wonder we keep falling into the same pattern and allowing the conservatives to take over.
You cannot fight using GOP tactics because...

1 WE will end up with a Trump as a nominee--the Republicans are just thrilled about Trump-but they will vote for him anyway because they understand team work.
2 We will never go as low as they will.
3 It doesn't matter how cruel they are, their party will forgive them and vote for them anyway because they actually get that they need unity to keep power and get elected.
The very thing Progressives can't get through their thick skulls. Every election Progressives "vote their consciences " the country further right.

Ask yourself why Black lives matter hasn't just taken the Black Panther "arm yourselves" tactic when protesting police brutality?
Because even IF the cops beat them to a pulp or kill them THEY will be perceived as the troublemakers.
Don't believe me? look at Kent State. Did it stop the war? no.

That's the nature of people because they despise conflict that much.



Just five days after the shootings, 100,000 people demonstrated in Washington, D.C., against the war and the killing of unarmed student protesters. Ray Price, Nixon's chief speechwriter from 1969–1974, recalled the Washington demonstrations saying, "The city was an armed camp. The mobs were smashing windows, slashing tires, dragging parked cars into intersections, even throwing bedsprings off overpasses into the traffic down below. This was the quote, student protest. That's not student protest, that's civil war."

A Gallup Poll taken immediately after the shootings reportedly showed that 58 percent of respondents blamed the students, 11 percent blamed the National Guard and 31 percent expressed no opinion.[41] However, there was wide discussion as to whether these were legally justified shootings of American citizens, and whether the protests or the decisions to ban them were constitutional. These debates served to further galvanize uncommitted opinion by the terms of the discourse. The term "massacre" was applied to the shootings by some individuals and media sources, as it had been used for the Boston Massacre of 1770, in which five were killed and several more wounded.[1][2][3]

On May 14, ten days after the Kent State shootings, two students were killed (and 12 wounded) by police at Jackson State University under similar circumstances — the Jackson State killings — but that event did not arouse the same nationwide attention as the Kent State shootings

In September 1970, twenty-four students and one faculty member were indicted on charges connected with the May 4 demonstration at the ROTC building fire three days before. These individuals, who had been identified from photographs, became known as the "Kent 25"

Eight of the guardsmen were indicted by a grand jury. The guardsmen claimed to have fired in self-defense, a claim that was generally accepted by the criminal justice system. In 1974 U.S. District Judge Frank Battisti dismissed charges against all eight on the basis that the prosecution's case was too weak to warrant a trial.

[islandmkl]

86. the 'whole picture' might include that the 'new' Democratic Party has done nearly zero

to crank up its historical base effectively outside of Presidential elections....since 1992...

they have not served as the STRONG OPPOSITION to the rightwing since...pick a year...

your evaluation of Kent State and trying to simply conclude what you have, with some poll facts, that the country wasn't moved merely by Kent State shows a tremendous lack of knowledge about how effective the anti-war protests were...

tell me how the mood of the country was, in general, a year after Kent State...

only a fool, or someone so myopic that they can only see facts that support their conclusions, would ignore the the true history of the years of protest and claim they had no or little effect on the general public...

and the anti-war protests were just that...a protest...not a movement...once the war was over (i did not say 'ended') it became a moot point...

we are now in a state of constant war (of some kind), rampant wealth transfers, eroding climates, and a list of maladies that are nearly all fueled by greed...and COMPROMISING has gotten us here....

all those 'little' incremental steps, all the 'small' giveaways, all those 'slow' steps toward the 'stated goal', all those moves rightward to 'compromise' with the rightwing...all the elements of that program have destroyed the fabric of the Middle Class in America...

but hey...you can always enjoy the comfort of the lies you are being told while you are being sold out...at some point in the future you can look back and say, "It wasn't so bad, really...once we got used to it."

[TheKentuckian]

92. So, what I'm "missing" is thinking in non sequitur?

A point was just made, it was responded to, and your reply in defense is several bullet points and paragraphs that actually say nothing about the original point of "look at the state of the Republicans".

You are talking about Kent State for crying out loud, what in the world does that have to do with the constantly predicted destruction but never happens of the Republican party and how we don't want to risk going there?

What you served up was a poorly connected excuse salad but for what exactly? Who knows?

Ultra progressives? What the fuck is that? Everybody but right wing nut jobs and corporate conservatives? Seems to me the move the right happens no matter how anyone votes ever and it is that wheel which must be broken and broken at all costs because otherwise it will roll along until it destroys not only everything fought and sacrificed for over a longer period than this nation has existed but worse also even hope of ever fixing what is broken.

Fake "pragmatic", phony "sensible", in the center of nothing but the right wing of Democrats and the insanity of the TeaPubliKLAN party are a form of cancer marketing themselves as medicine who's only real incrementalisim is the slow March toward ideological and philosophical surrender to the right wing.

[puffy socks]

93. It giving examples of "revolution" style fighting from history.

too bad learning from history is so far over your noggin. But that explains a lot.

Oh, I see the GOP is doing just fine? I'll use a Warren quote..."have your eyes been stitched shut?"

The tea party tried fighting, and not compromising where are they now? just as the students at Kent state and at several hundred universities tried forcing tier way through. Nixon was elected and the students were seen as derelicts. The war continued on for another 5 years..good going !

Ultra Progressives are the dolts trying to take over the Dems at this point claiming Bernie is a Dem . He is not. and they don't own the Democratic party.


"You are talking about Kent State for crying out loud, what in the world does that have to do with the constantly predicted destruction but never happens of the Republican party and how we don't want to risk going there?
The public turned against them .. learn from it instead if doing the exact same thing and pretending it's doing something different.

Its called history.
Its showing you the results of people trying to fight and not compromise. Homestead strikers had the public on their side until someone tried to kill Fricke , that instantly turned the public against them, Occupy Wall street refused to compromise and embrace any "establishment" Dems who spoke out for them this is why the GOP keeps getting power.

[TheKentuckian]

94. Where are they now? See my original post in this conversation. Dominating the landscape.

and...

now back off the rails with Bernie not being a Democrat while having the fucking gall to try to talk about something going over some extra else's head as they flail around.

Can't defend your argument? Flail around, point fingers, and double down is the way to go.

Hmm...who else always does that?

You know that also loves corporate dominance, down muscular and interventionist militarism, don't have a fuck to give about too big to fail, coddles the extraction syndicate, is all about the insurance cartel, worships Wall Street, has disdain for working class citizens, never saw a "free trade" deal they didn't like, favors dragnet surveillance yet is fine with a government unaccountable to its people, and hates "free stuff" for the people but wink and nod at MOST to full blown corporate communism?

Hmmmmm...I know these one guys that seem pretty damn similar. What were they called?

[Broward]

20. For many, it's not even compromise. It's what they want in the first place.

[Cosmic Kitten]

22. ^^^BINGO! ^^^

THEY are not compromising.
We're supposed to do
the compromising.

[CharlotteVale]

62. +1

[Progressive dog]

25. Compromise is part of governing and living in a Democracy

It's part and parcel of getting along with others. Fighting for values and causes is the opposite of civilized.

[Cosmic Kitten]

32. So civil rights battles were uncivilized?!?

Tell that to those who fought
for civil rights.

While you're at it, tell the LGBT community
to just compromise, it's more civilized
than making a fuss over equality.

[BillZBubb]

50. One of the most unprogessive and historically foolish comments I've read in a long time.

Read some game theory on strategy. If you compromise all the time and your opponent never compromises, you end up the big loser.

Part and parcel of living in a Democracy is both sides playing by the same rules. If one side doesn't follow that way of doing business, the other side is foolish to do so.

As for your last sentence, it is historically ignorant. Fighting for values and principles is what created modern society. If the colonists didn't fight, we'd still have a king or queen. Should they have compromised? Were they uncivilized?

[Progressive dog]

59. Game theory on strategy

You may be a game piece but I am not. BTW A compromise is not the same as a surrender, you should look it up.
The colonists acted to overthrow a repressive government. Both sides do play by exactly the same rules. Rich and poor alike, we get one vote.

[BillZBubb]

63. Wow, very intelligent put down of mathematical game theory! Stay a know nothing for all I care.

You said it was uncivilized to fight for a cause. Blanket statement. You said that not me.

You were wrong and your statement was historically clueless.

Now you admit there are things worth fighting for where it is not uncivilized. So, where do you draw the line? Do we give up the fight for civil rights? Is that uncivilized? Do we need to compromise? Or is that an exception you'll allow too? How about abortion rights? Allow that? Do we need to compromise?

[NCTraveler]

43. You fight to get the best position in the end.

Almost every single ending involves compromise. I don't get the complete lack of understanding with respect to negotiating.

[Cosmic Kitten]

49. Remember how the civil right leaders compromised?

Segregation isn't so bad is it?
Separate but equal!

Perhaps this gender flap over
restrooms will be resolved by
*compromise*


The confederate flag issue should be
resolved by compromising, right?
I mean, it's not fair if only one side
is happy with the outcome.
Just fly old glory on weekends, ok with you?

[BillZBubb]

56. I think Hillary supporters are compromised.

Their Third Wayers who have lost any fight. They've been tamed.

[NCTraveler]

58. Yes, I do understand how civil rights leaders have compromised throughout history.

I find it somewhat frightening how flippant you are being as you proudly and forcefully show your lack of knowledge with respect to civil rights history.

You do understand we are still fighting for civil rights, right?

[hack89]

64. Is that why there are no more civil rights battles left to be fought?

because there was no compromise and everything was settled?

[Kall]

60. If you surrender before beginning negotiations

can that even be called a compromise? Hello, Republican Health Care Bill of the 1990s.

[anotherproletariat]

66. Compromise was the intent of our founding fathers...

It is the only way to create progress in a true democracy. There is no way any society will have people who always agree about everything. Our system was created to allow each side to be heard, and people to work together to SLOWLY try and move in the direction deemed most important to each side.

Yes, we must fight to gain the most in any negotiation with the other side, but if we refuse to budge, we are no better than the tea party and their immoveable idealism which has become obvious will never achieve their objectives. The only impact they have had is to stop anything from being accomplished, which apparently is fine with them, but is not sustainable.

[cry baby]

68. Kind of a broad brush you're painting with. nt

[Sky Masterson]

69. We are Settlers.

[aspirant]

70. Is the great compromise

selling half of your soul to the devil?

[TrueDemVA]

71. Down with Corporate Dem sell outs

No more voting for compromise candidates, AKA DINOs. It's beyond time to start fighting back before all of the rights and services our citizens have fought and died for are gone.

[.99center]

74. That's bullshit

The DNC doesn't compromise anything to liberals! They only compromise when dealing with great minds such as Bush.

[CobaltBlue]

75. Cosmic Kitten—Ds are the Rs as that party stood prior Newt Gingrich as speaker of the House.

[CobaltBlue]

76. Cosmic Kitten—Ds do fight. They fight against true liberals. (They marginalize them.)

[jfern]

77. Democrats do fight. They fought Bernie harder than I've ever seen them fight before.

[B Calm]

78. This election there is a clear choice, Bernie. It's not about electing the first woman president,

it's about the not insane republicans who are upset with the teabaggery in their party who came pouring into the Democratic party. Like most republicans they have a sense of entitlement, they believe that the party belongs to them and those who don't care for their agenda should get out. They are demanding that those who built the nest get the fuck out because they are taking over.

[One of the 99]

87. Ted Kennedy compromised all the time.

He often said 'getting half a loaf was better than none'. There is noting wrong with compromise.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

88. Fight for delegates.

Whatever that takes.

The only important goal is winning.

[MineralMan]

89. Compromise? Every President we might elect

will compromise. Politics is compromise. Always has been and always will be. There is no governance of a nation of 300+ million people where compromise is not required on a constant basis.

No two people have exactly the same points of view. Multiply that by 150+ million and you'll understand why compromise is always how things happen.

Expect compromise. Bernie Sanders will compromise, too. He will have no choice.

[LWolf]

90. I've been complaining about this since...

let's see...the 1990s.

A coincidence? I don't think so.

It's a neo-liberal thing, to "compromise."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

91. "Collaborate" is more apt.