Hillary fans, she is the ONLY ONE EVER to have only used a non-gov account for 100% of her emails!!!

[Logical]

Last edited Sat May 14, 2016, 12:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Other people have used A non-government account for some of their emails.

Hillary never used her government Account for any of her emails!!!

I know you are all in denial mode, but that is a big difference. And on top of it it was her own private server.

She was stupid to do it. But I love the way you're trying to defend it.

[Gomez163]

1. WHO CARES? THE PRIMARY IS OVER BERNIE LOST. GIVE IT UP.

[bjo59]

5. Just keep telling yourself that. I'm sure it helps.

[Demsrule86]

59. Yeah it helps to remember

that no matter what crap you post...she won, and he lost.The primary is over...less than a month until she is officially the nominee and Skinner calls it.

[Fawke Em]

87. And she'll lose in November.

The media (outside the rightwing) who has been ignoring this until she's nominated will no longer hold back. Trust me on that one.

Skinner can call it all he wants, but a nominee under a criminal investigation has as much chance to win as a snowball in hell.

[Smarmie Doofus]

138. As a simple point of logic, these contentions cannot BOTH be true:

"The primary is over...less than a month until she is officially the nominee and Skinner calls it."

1. The "primary" ( Surely you mean " the primaries&quot is (are) over.

and

2. She is not... as of right now... the nominee.

(Also, apparently you ascribe some kind of magical powers to Skinner. Let me remind you: he's in charge of this website. He's not in charge of the Democratic Party.)

[Demsrule86]

163. Bernie can't win

He has lost...but has not done the right thing and conceded and endorsed. Thus the zombie primary rolls on ...and endurance test really as the nominee has been chosen.

[silvershadow]

6. With her possible indictment still on the table? No, the primary

continues until she either has the requisite number or gets to convention to meet us.

[Gomez163]

11. You are going to need serious counseling when this is over and she wins.

[mindwalker_i]

37. You are going to need some serious counseling if this goes forward

But, but, but, she won!

[Fawke Em]

89. Wait until they see how CNN and MSNBC will go after the server investigation

once she's the nominee.

I'm of the opinion they've been holding back to ensure she gets the nomination before blasting her with both barrels.

[mindwalker_i]

118. That's possibly true

It would make for good (profitable) TV.

[pnwmom]

150. Like they went after Colin Powell? He exclusively used a private server and destroyed all his emails

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell says he doesn’t have any emails to turn over to the State Department.
Appearing on ABC’s “This Week” Sunday, Powell responded to revelations that he used a personal email account, rather than a government one, when he was in charge of the State Department. Questions about his email use arose last week when it was disclosed that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton used a personal email account during her tenure.


“I don’t have any to turn over. I did not keep a cache of them. I did not print them off. I do not have thousands of pages somewhere in my personal files,” Powell said. “A lot of the emails that came out of my personal account went into the State Department system. They were addressed to State Department employees and state.gov domain, but I don’t know if the servers in the State Department captured those or not. “


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/colin-powell-hillary-clinton-email-state-department-115870#ixzz48gZuUbHC
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

[NWCorona]

153. Powell used AOL not a private server and yes he didn't turn them over

Powell himself is/was under FBI investigation and admitted he was interviewed last year.

He's not running for president tho.

[pnwmom]

154. AOL is a private server not a government server. And it had fewer safeguards than Hillary's.

http://www.newsweek.com/colin-powell-emails-hillary-clinton-424187

To give an idea of how insecure these communications could be, Powell’s personal email is an AOL account, and he used it on a laptop when he communicated with foreign officials and ambassadors, unless the information qualified for a SCIF. (Clinton sent only one email to a foreign dignitary through her personal account, and her communications with ambassadors were, for the most part, by phone.)

SNIP

Then there is the issue of servers. Where did Powell and Rice’s staff have their servers? Who knows, and who cares? Maybe they were private with special security and no public access. Or maybe they were just an AOL server. Whichever it was, they would be just as open to hacking as the State Department servers. In fact, the State Department general email system has been hacked multiple times, with terabytes of information improperly downloaded in 2006 alone. There has been no indication that the email accounts of either Powell or Rice’s staff were compromised.

Powell may have made one mistake in all this. He has said he never backed up his emails or printed them out; that was necessary to comply with some of the preservation rules detailed in the Federal Register. Of course, that doesn’t mean they can’t be recovered, since the FOIA staff is now reviewing his emails.The bottom line: Democrats may try to turn the revelations about the email accounts used by Powell and Rice’s staff into a scandal. They may release press statements condemning the former secretaries of state; they may call for scores of unnecessary congressional hearings; they may go to the press and confidently proclaim that crimes were committed by these honorable Republicans. But it would all be lies. Powell and Rice did nothing wrong. This could be considered a scandal only by ignorant or lying partisans.So there is no Powell or Rice email scandal. And no doubt, that will infuriate the Republicans who are trying so hard to trick people into believing Clinton committed a crime by doing the exact same thing as her predecessors.

[NWCorona]

155. There's a difference between private vs personal. I'll give you that.

As to the safeguards. AOL had 128 bit encryption while Hillary's didn't have any during the first three months. I also agree with you that any system email isn't secure enough for classified information.

[pnwmom]

156. There is no legal difference with respect to the use of personal email accounts

for non-classified government business, whether Hillary used an account from her private personal server, or Powell used his AOL private account, or Karl Rove used his RNC account.

None of them were .gov accounts, but that was allowed until the Federal Records Act was amended in 2014 -- after they all left office.

And there has never been any evidence that Hillary used a non-classified system for documents that were classified when she sent them.

[NWCorona]

157. But what about the classified emails she received?

[pnwmom]

159. They would have been sent on the classified system and that's where she received them.

Except for things like Blumenthal telling her about newspaper articles he'd read about drone strikes -- which were retroactively classified but still out there in the news media.

And it's hard to get excited about that unless you're a Hillary hater.

[NWCorona]

164. Actually one of the emails that Sid sent had gamma level intelligence and was quickly pulled.

And it had very little to do with drone strikes.

Also Hillary's log in credentials were never activated and there's no record of her accessing those systems. Her aides did tho.

And no I'm not excited. Especially considering the weather makes it seem like it's fall again.

[pnwmom]

165. Her log in credentials to what? She could and did use the SCIF system, just not her .gov account.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2016/02/07/the-technology-behind-hillary-clintons-email-scandal-explained/#5600b72b78c9

In fact, government operates under the presumption that email messages will be intercepted, and uses two methods to keep sensitive information secret. The first, for the most highly secret material, involves hard copies of classified documents. These are not allowed to be copied or sent electronically and can only be transferred by a government courier.

The second method involves something called a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF), a facility which is used for electronically encrypted information. This is done by using large random numbers to scramble messages so that, even if they are intercepted, they can’t be read by anyone who doesn’t have the key. Truly secret information is never sent by regular email.

So, for the purposes of security, it really doesn’t matter whether Hillary Clinton was using a government issued email or her own personal server. To a large extent unencrypted email is unencrypted email, no matter where the server resides. And while it is true that Clinton used her own private server for unclassified business, she also regularly used a SCIF for secure communication (one was installed at her residence).

[NWCorona]

166. I'm not talking about SCIF as I've mentioned that before. Specifically the one in her house.

I'm talking about accessing classified data. It's no secret that Hillary isn't computer or tech savvy. It's one of the reasons Hillary wanted a Blackberry.

[pnwmom]

167. She transmitted and received classified data through her SCIF system, on secure phone lines,

and by paper documents delivered securely. That's how.

There is no question that she properly transmitted and received the vast majority of her classified emails through the proper channels, including SCIF, secure phone, and secure paper.

There are a small fraction of documents believed to contain classified info that were found on her personal server that are being questioned now.

[BlueStateLib]

179. Not true, they were using Self-Signed certificates for the first 3 months on the

enterprise level fortinet security device and using Self-Signed certificates would only effect HTTPS web page login with invalid certificate warnings, clinton used blackberry vpn where login credentials are hard coded

[NWCorona]

180. Are you sure about that?

[BlueStateLib]

181. Yep

Setting up a VPN profile on the BlackBerry Torch smartphone
1.From the Home screen, click Options (the wrench icon).
2.Click Security > Advanced Security Settings > VPN.
3.Open the menu > click New.
4.Select Vendor Type from the list.
5.Create a name for the profile created and specify VPN credentials. (Contact the system administrator for more information on VPN credentials.)
6.Open the menu > click Save.
http://support.blackberry.com/kb/articleDetail?ArticleNumber=000024529

[NWCorona]

182. You do realize that the server had at least two different public facing sub domains

That allowed brute force, right?

Her BlackBerry wasn't the only way in.

[CorporatistNation]

25. Who Also Hid/Deleted 100% of Her IT Guy's Emails Too! I Find That Circumstance "Curious" At Best...

Criminal Obstruction at WORST... The FBI might feel similarly!

[jfern]

39. It's not over. I haven't voted yet.

[Waiting For Everyman]

40. Sure, because a president who is that RECKLESS IS FINE!

Obviously you agree with that sarcastic statement, but I don't.

[Demsrule86]

65. I think Bernie Sander is reckless and undemocratic

He wants to take what he can't win by flipping super delegates. People tell me how principled and great he is, but I see what he does. Actions speak louder than words...although he uses plenty of those to trash Hill and the party.

[bkkyosemite]

96. Super delegates are a disgusting part of the Dem Party's way of getting who they

ordain

[grasswire]

136. that is what democracy looks like.

super delegates are an unAmerican construct.

[kstewart33]

104. I honestly can't tell if you're kidding or not.

I think Hillary's a fine candidate. But I'm not sure if you do.

[w4rma]

43. Fmr. Top DOJ Official: Clinton Likely Committed ‘Biggest Violation of Federal Records Act in History

Dan Metcalfe was the Founding Director of the Justice Department’s Office of Information and Privacy (1981-2007). Metcalfe was essentially “the federal government’s chief information-disclosure ‘guru.'”
…
Such is the case with federal records laws such as the Federal Records Act and the Freedom of Information Act, which govern the conduct of federal employees and officials, even that of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

What’s more, the civil sanctions provided in these laws can be applied only to people who still remain federal employees at the time at which their violation is discovered and acted upon. In other words, if you violate these laws and then leave government service quickly enough, you are beyond the reach of their penalties. Indeed, a common refrain among political appointees during the latter part of the George W. Bush Administration was: “That’s OK, because by the time anyone finds out about it, we’ll be long gone.”

The Federal Records Act (or “FRA”) is a decades-old federal law that governs the creation, maintenance, preservation, and disposition of federal records, regardless of form or format, including electronic records such as e-mail. Simply put, it tells those who work for the federal government that they must document their work and keep such records safe during their tenures. Then, when someone leaves a federal position, the FRA requires that all such records be reviewed in conjunction with an agency records officer so that the agency (i.e., not the employee alone) can make decisions about which records will be preserved.
…
Any failure to meet these legal obligations, from the beginning of an employee’s tenure to the end, is punishable with administrative sanctions up to and including dismissal.
…
So what the public is left with, in the case of these key federal records laws, is a statutory scheme that is effectively toothless in most instances, especially in the cases of law-flouting political employees such as Secretary Clinton who seem to do just whatever they please and can get away with — literally.

And one more conclusion should be obvious: It is long past time for Congress to take a close look at this — regardless of how Secretary Clinton manages to fare on the criminal side of her docket — and update the Federal Records Act to provide meaningful sanctions (not to mention oversight) that effectively disincentivize at least such contumacious violations of it. Anything less, in the face of such sad circumstances would be abnegation of legislative responsibility as well.

Dan Metcalfe is a registered Democrat who has long said that he will vote for Hillary Clinton in November “if she escapes indictment and manages to become the Democratic presidential nominee.”

http://lawnewz.com/politics/hillary-clinton-absolutely-violated-the-federal-records-act-heres-why-she-cant-be-punished/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1958677
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1958733

[Fawke Em]

90. If this isn't already an OP, it should be!

I'm just now reading this morning, so you may have already posted this as an OP, but if not, please do!

[kstewart33]

107. So she can't be prosecuted. So why are we posting about this?

Wheezing and whining - what's the point of that?

I committed a traffic violation a while ago (illegal U turn), but no policeman was on the scene and so I didn't get a ticket.

So I sighed a sigh of relief and moved on. End of story.

Let's move on to something that materially matters to the campaign.

[w4rma]

119. She only can't be prosecuted on the civil crimes. The handling of secure information is different.nt

[Bjornsdotter]

134. Yeah....

...your illegal U turn is exactly the same.

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. And this has zero to do with the primary

But, but, but she won....I am going to truly enjoy that reality crashing

[PatrickforO]

129. It ain't over yet!

This is a contest where the establishment is trying to cram business as is down our throats again when the American people are fed up.

I suggest that

1. Bernie is still in it

2. If Clinton gets the nomination, she will prove a very weak candidate

3. And because of this, Trump might win.

The problem, Gomez, is that people like me (and millions of others) REALLY LIKE SANDERS' PLATFORM because he's talking about things we've needed to address for decades, ever since the Third Way betrayed working class Americans in the 90s. Honestly, if Bernie were 20 years younger, he'd have the nomination sewn up by now. (On edit, took out unnecessary words).

Nonetheless, he is the ONLY candidate in my voting lifetime who has advocated things that will actually HELP me and my family have better lives. The ONLY one, Gomez. Think about that for a minute.

Why do you think Trump is the presumptive Republican nominee? He's talking about renegotiating the 'free trade' deals. He's talking about how we lost millions of good jobs because of NAFTA and how we don't have single payer because of GATS. You know, the guy is a snake oil salesman who is waking up the neo-nazis, klansmen and other white supremacist xenophobes and using this race hatred to fuel fire against the economic forces that have fucked this country's middle class for decades. Do you see that? I hope so.

Even more so, I hope your candidate sees it.

[AgerolanAmerican]

130. "It's the corruption, stupid!"

just borrowing a phrase

[grasswire]

135. Trump can't wait for her.

And you won't be blameless then.

[Gomez163]

141. Trump has even less of a chance than Bernie of beating her.

[pnwmom]

149. I care. The OP is false. Colin Powell exclusively used a private server and destroyed ALL his emails

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell says he doesn’t have any emails to turn over to the State Department.
Appearing on ABC’s “This Week” Sunday, Powell responded to revelations that he used a personal email account, rather than a government one, when he was in charge of the State Department. Questions about his email use arose last week when it was disclosed that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton used a personal email account during her tenure.

“I don’t have any to turn over. I did not keep a cache of them. I did not print them off. I do not have thousands of pages somewhere in my personal files,” Powell said. “A lot of the emails that came out of my personal account went into the State Department system. They were addressed to State Department employees and state.gov domain, but I don’t know if the servers in the State Department captured those or not. “


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/colin-powell-hillary-clinton-email-state-department-115870#ixzz48gZuUbHC
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

[NWCorona]

2. There's so many ways this setup was wrong. nt

[woolldog]

3. In other words,

she's an innovator.

[libdem4life]

8. No, she's a crook.

[woolldog]

17. Using a non .gov account = crook?

You have a vivid imagination

[libdem4life]

19. Yeah, me and the rest of the sane public and government folk.

She's going Down...Pay to Play will do her in. Linked to the Email, um, difficulties. Pleading ignorance is so HRC. She's brilliant...until she screws up... then she's ignorant. I'll go with both.

By no means is she going to go scot free...regardless of your imagination of my imagination. LOL.

[glinda]

23. I believe as a Gov. Employee her emails are the property of the

citizens of this Country. That is one reason that employees of this Government use them...that is unless they do not want the public to see them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. Preservation of federal records just for starters

[woolldog]

127. you don't have to use a .gov account to preserve federal records.

She broke no laws in conducting government business on non .gov emails.

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. Actually the reason why this started is proof you do

FOIA requests to State did not get the usual denial or heavily redacted email, but a we can't find 'em sorry. That is what got the ball rolling. The server was nowhere in the custody of the US government. Ergo, records were not getting preserved. And don't get me started on the 30k that were deleted (many since recovered) by her lawyer.

You might try that with people who have never done a FOIA request, or a PRA for the state. Those of us who have, know better.

[woolldog]

132. She has turned over all relevant emails

Therefore disproving your contention that they were not preserved. 50,000+ pages worth of emails she has turned over. If they had not been preserved, obviously there would have been nothing to turn over. http://graphics.wsj.com/hillary-clinton-email-documents/

[nadinbrzezinski]

133. After significant pressure

Because they could not be found. And thanks for the reminder, I gotta add that to the timeline.

And the 30k that were deleted, due to wedding, silly wabbits, were easy to recover...for the FBI...they put them in the cloud, and more than a few had nothing to do with flower arrangements incidentally.

Oh and that server was for two years parked at a company with no clearances either.

You will continue to claim this is nothing. Reality will come crashing. I guarantee it will not be nice

[woolldog]

137. In other words, you were wrong

when you implied that using a non .gov email account = failing to preserve records.

There was no prohibition against federal employees using non .gov emails to conduct government business in place during Clinton's tenure.

And she obviously did preserve records since she has turned over 50000+ pages of emails.

[nadinbrzezinski]

140. What part of they could not find them did you purposely miss?

The records were not preserved, and would not have been if there was no civil lawsuit, incidentally started by CREW, and continued by JW

[joshcryer]

4. The government account was shit though.

That's the reason the others fell back to non-government emails.

[rhett o rick]

7. Yeah, private contractors are always better than the government, right?

Doesn't matter what the excuse if any other government employee did what she did, they would have been fired.

[joshcryer]

12. In very many areas.

The internet is a perfect example.

And the Pentagon and White House got hacked, lots of data stolen, but Clinton's server didn't. In many ways having such strict control helped security.

[morningfog]

28. We don't know that hers wasn't hacked.

[puffy socks]

33. The security logs show she wasn't hacked.

But I fully expect Sanders supporters to stand with Guccifer, a narcissistic malcontent who has been charged with crimes and who can't provide any proof to back up his claim that he hacked her server.

[JoePhilly]

82. We know the CIA director's email's were hacked ...

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/10/21/3714690/brennan-breach/

Good thing Hilary wasn't using that system.

[rhett o rick]

161. Help me understand your point. Since the Pentagon and White House got hacked (you forgot

the links) you recommend that all government employees set up their own private servers? You are really going a long way to justify her transgression. She has zero integrity, but I know that her followers don't care.

[Demsrule86]

70. ABsoutely in terms of the internet and computers

We have an antiquated system that has been hacked by the Chinese and God knows who...hacked twice while Clinton was SOS...this is a right wing smear like Benghazi and really shows who Bernie and his supporters are in terms of character. I don't like Bernie but I don't post smears. Another example of where private computer companies are better than a governmental system that has been starved of money for progress by evil Republicans for decades...would be Obamacare. President Obama relied on the government computer people to roll out Obamacare and that was a disaster that cost us in the next election.

[Demsrule86]

72. Also

No matter what lies, right-wing attacks...etc you post...Bernie lost and soon he won't be able to continue his antics. I don't think you understand how much I and many others have come to dislike him...I liked the guy before the primary..but not anymore. If somehow he convinced the supers to overturn the primary which would never happen...but if...I would not vote for Bernie period. I won't vote for a person who steals what he does not earn. We would lose anyway with a Democratic Socialist running in the GE (after the Gop who looove Bernie painted him as the second coming of Stalin) so I wouldn't have to worry about doing my duty...the courts would be lost the day Bernie became the nominee.Thank God that won't happen, and we have a chance.

[bkkyosemite]

101. And I've come to dislike her and her cohorts who helped her. Your crap on Bernie is

just that a bunch of bull shit crap. Have a nice day.

[rhett o rick]

162. I notice that instead of responding with a decent argument against accusations you revert to

ad hominem attacks. She voted for the Iraq War. That's not a right wing attack. She supports cluster bombs while most of the modern world do not. That's not a right wing attack. She loves fracking for oil company profits. Again, not a right wing attack.

Those of us that are fighting for the 99% do not want Clinton. Who are you fighting for? The 1%?

[Demsrule86]

168. So did John Kerry

Bernie voted for Afghanistan...so spare me the nonsense. Berne has his office occupied for supporting the bombing in Yugoslavia. S this is not about that vote now is it really?

[rhett o rick]

169. You are having a perspective problem. Sanders voted to support troops while Clinton helped

Republicons sell a war that killed hundreds of thousands, destroyed our economy, probably forever, and took away many of our rights. She lied to the Senate to sell the war. And that just demonstrates who she is. She wants money and power and cares little about the 99%.

She wants to hold the min wage down to $12 per hour, why? Because her corporate friends want that.

She wants tough laws to get the "Super-preditors" off the streets and fill our prisons for the Prisons For Profits corporations.

She wants to withhold medical marijuana from cancer patients, Why? Because the Big Pharm wants her to. Now that's cold.

I could go on but I know nothing anyone could say will alter your idolatry. Issues and positions don't matter. Is it the wealth that draws your allegiance? Maybe the toughness.

[Demsrule86]

170. He voted for

Yugoslavia, Afghanistan...sorry he voted for war when it was politically expedient. Why did Bernie not serve in Vietnam...he is the right age? Below is one of the reasons the right wants Bernie...can you imagine the ads?

"A quarter-century after the first Baby Boomer presidential election cycle, can we dare to hope that this will be our last? ABC News reports this morning that Bernie Sanders, who is vying to become the Democratic nominee for Commander in Chief, filed for conscientious objector status during the Vietnam War. The Sanders campaign confirmed the report:

Bernie Sanders applied for conscientious objector status during the Vietnam War, his campaign confirmed to ABC News.

“As a college student in the 1960s he was a pacifist,” Michael Briggs, campaign spokesman added in an email. “[He] isn’t now.”

[rhett o rick]

171. Bravo for all that dare speak up to the War Mongers. Too bad more Democrats

didn't speak up to Bush, the Boy King.

Again you have a prospective problem. Sanders is against war and Clinton is for war. That's why her followers love her, she is tough and willing to go to war at the drop of a hat. Tough seems more important than empathetic.

She repeated the REpublicon lies to the Senate to go to war. How can you get lower?

[pdsimdars]

67. No, it is not. You are making things up.

There are times, in certain emergency situations when they don't have access to their government account when it is understood they can use a personal email. But, they must also send that email to their government account so that it is preserved.

Guess Hillary decided that was another regulation that didn't apply to her.

And no, the government system is not shit. I read that the defense department is attacked about 100,000 times a day. So, the shit is in your made up information and not the government network.

It is so annoying when people just make shit up to fit some narrative they made up.

Give us a link or stop making shit up.

[Hiraeth]

77. and ... this makes it okay ... ?

Thank god she didn't write the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.

[pdsimdars]

172. Criminals always have an excuse for breaking the law.

Aren't you supposed to obey the rules until you can change them?

That kind of thinking is the way criminal think, always an excuse.

[puffy socks]

9. That's simply not true.

A search was conducted on Clinton's email account for all emails sent and received from 2009 to her last day in office, February 1, 2013.

After this universe was determined, a search was conducted for a ".gov" (not just state.gov) in any address field in an email. This produced over 27,500 emails, representing more than 90% of the 30,490 printed copies that were provided to the State Department.

To help identify any potential non-".gov" correspondence that should be included, a search of first and last names of more than 100 State Department and other U.S. government officials was performed. This included all Deputy Secretaries, Under Secretaries, Assistant Secretaries, Ambassadors-at-Large, Special Representatives and Envoys, members of the Secretary's Foreign Policy Advisory Board, and other senior officials to the Secretary, including close aides and staff.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/07/13/email-facts/

[Logical]

14. Lol, nice try, from her website no doubt......

WASHINGTON — Hillary Rodham Clinton exclusively used a personal email account to conduct government business as secretary of state, State Department officials said, and may have violated federal requirements that officials’ correspondence be retained as part of the agency’s record.

Mrs. Clinton did not have a government email address during her four-year tenure at the State Department. Her aides took no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time, as required by the Federal Records Act.



http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/us/politics/hillary-clintons-use-of-private-email-at-state-department-raises-flags.html

[puffy socks]

16. So she's not allowed to defend herself now?

Do you have proof otherwise?

[Logical]

18. You saw my proof! And a link to it!!

[puffy socks]

24. There is no proof anywhere on this thread.

Oh and then there's this:

WASHINGTON — A former aide to Hillary Clinton has turned over to the F.B.I. computer security logs from Mrs. Clinton’s private server, records that showed no evidence of foreign hacking, according to people close to a federal investigation into Mrs. Clinton’s emails.

The security logs bolster Mrs. Clinton’s assertion that her use of a personal email account to conduct State Department business while she was the secretary of state did not put American secrets into the hands of hackers or foreign governments.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/04/us/politics/security-logs-of-hillary-clintons-email-server-are-said-to-show-no-evidence-of-hacking.html?_r=0

and this:


"sources familiar with the FBI probe of Clinton's private e-mail server are saying that as the investigation nears the end, so far "investigators haven't found evidence to prove that Clinton willfully violated the law." The CNN story highlights the fact that several of Clinton's closest aides, including Huma Abdedin, have provided interviews to the feds and that the investigation is centered solely on the e-mail server. It also states that these interviews, including one still to come with Clinton herself, are a routine part of a probe like this and therefore shouldn't be taken as evidence of guilt. But again, CNN's sources say that there's no guilt to speak of anyway. "
http://thedailybanter.com/2016/05/fbi-clinton-email-server-no-laws-broken/


Darn it doesn't say what you so badly wish it would.

Bernie lost.
It's time to deal with it.

[truedelphi]

34. Few other people who get named as having used their own private server were actually

In positions where their protecting state secrets was of primary importance. At one point, on DU,someone mentioned Gov Jindhal as not using a government server, but seriously, he was not in the loop to receive state secrets.

It also looks very bad for HRC that so many of her email s got deleted - with her claiming they were private.

Were they in fact private? Or was she trying to cover up some nefarious conduct between various people like Blumenthal and Giustra and others involved with the Clinton Foundation?

What is also bad about her deletions is that as it turns out, her private server company has everything "in the cloud" so she apparently didn't know that her deletions were not really deletions, nor did her "techs" know that. Bad judgement all around, and perhaps more than bad judgement.

As far as Bernie, everything is in place. I hope eventually you come around. The days of the Oligarchs and their minions are coming to a close.

[nadinbrzezinski]

131. Well she claims those were related to the wedding

And I sort of agree, we really do not need the wedding info...but 30k stretches credibility. And more than a few were already recovered...silly people putting them on the cloud...and to our shock and surprise did not have anything to do with the flower arrangements.

[morningfog]

30. Oh Brock's socks er minions are allowed to defend her.

And we allowed to rebut.

[puffy socks]

31. That's fine by me.

Thus far the rebuttals are just hysterical nonsense, but nonetheless incredibly amusing.

[morningfog]

32. Do the correct the record posters get paid per post,

per hour or is it a flat rate?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

69. It depends.

For some, posting the same article every morning, calling on Bernie to drop out, could be a simple macro. When they shift messages (which they seem to do about once a week), it is amazing how uniformly, timely, and consistently they do that.

I suspect there is a mix. Some are paid per diem, others by the article.

[bkkyosemite]

102. Lots of emails missing!

[puffy socks]

105. Lots?

How many?

[calguy]

10. Like anyone besides BSers give a shit?

Time to face reality. Bernie will NOT be the nominee.
All this other right wing bullshit is just that ..... BullShit

[Logical]

21. Currently there are some FBI people that care about it. I heard a rumor. Nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

58. The only people that DON'T care reside in Camp Weathervane.

Tick...tick...tick...

[pdsimdars]

68. Now, now, use their full name. . the Camp Weathervane Ostrich Army.

[Lizzie Poppet]

75. =)

[pinebox]

60. There is no RW shit here

The FBI isn't Republican. Hillary is under an investigation. You can ignore reality all you want but it doesn't change the fact that she will be meeting with the FBI about all of this and some of her staff has been granted immunity.

[Juicy_Bellows]

13. Aparently, only Bernie supporters care.

WTF are they on about? I'd like to read, just once, that they were deeply concerned but hope she will be cleared of any wrongdoing so that she may win the general. This would at least lend credence to the poor judgement facet but we can't have that. Funny how that simple acknowledgement is sorely missing 'round here.

[libdem4life]

22. Yeah, well I'm not hoping she's cleared. Both Clintons have played fast and loose

(read that any way you want) with propriety, ethics, good judgment and doing the right thing.

It's time they got called on the carpet for it and we get done with them...send them to their 5 mansions and millions of dollars from the unwitting.

Trust me, and get off my back, the Republicans are waiting with baited breath with Impeachment Papers. She got herself into it, not we witless Democrats having to defend her failed judgment and ethics. There is nothing to defend. Get rid of her...post haste.

And IDC if it is Joe Biden who waltzes in to save the day. Trump will not be as docile as the Democrats...fearing to hurt someones fee-fees.

[Juicy_Bellows]

26. I re-read my post and it sounds like I am saying what are Bernie supporters on about.

My bad, poor writing. I meant HRC supporters, who do they think they're fooling?

Cheers.

[libdem4life]

29. ....

[pdsimdars]

74. YOu do know you can go back and edit your post right? The edit button is in the lower right

of your post.

[pdsimdars]

73. And I'd like to hear, just once, the Hillary supporters acknowledge what a weak, flawed, lying

candidate they support, who can't beat Trump in the General Election.

WTF are the Clinton supporters about? Their candidate hasn't really supported progressive issues, she's always on the same side as the Repbulicans.

To clean the nonsense out of your brain, if she endangered the country by putting our most sensitive information on an unsecured private server, she should go to prison. Just because she is a Democrat does not mean she is above the law.

And if someone thinks that just because she is a Democrat she should not be prosecuted, their brains are a bit fuzzy and confused.

[merbex]

106. I would like to hear that as well n/t

[pnwmom]

15. So what? The .gov account was just a regular email account, not a classified account.

And it was repeatedly hacked by the Chinese and Russians, so it wasn't any more secure than Hillary's. They found evidence that hundreds of thousands of .gov emails had been hacked, but no evidence that Hillary's had been. In fact, having an account outside of the system might have kept her emails safer.

[Logical]

20. Then under your stupid logic all government employees should use non .GOV....

Accounts because they are not safe either so any account is fine?

LOLOLOL, you hill fans crack me up!

[pnwmom]

27. No. You are apparently unaware that the law was changed in 2014 to require all employees

to use the .gov server. The law was passed in 2013, months after Hillary left State, and went into effect in 2014.

[truedelphi]

35. The law may have been change at that point in time, but the fact that Hill used

Bad judgement that let her put her emails on a non-safe, hackable server shows a bit of clouded thinking.

And if it is true, as Octafish's recent OP was demonstrating that Hill has been running a "secret network" of spies, then it is also possible that the entire Benghazi operation was supposed to have cover, but lost that cover due to the ineptitude of how Ms Clinton handled her email matters.

Back during WWII, it used to be said that "loose lips sink ships." Now our officials should realize that "loose server" situations can be equally deadly.

[pnwmom]

36. If, if, if -- if only. This is just a lot of right-wing based suspicious nonsense. So much of that

is being posted by disappointed Bernie supporters.

[truedelphi]

50. Even if only half of the "if's" end up being true, that is still a lot

of things Ms Clinton has to answer for.

And it has already been demonstrated that her email server was not secure.

[pnwmom]

111. They won't. And it has already been established that hundreds of thousands of emails

were hacked on the supremely hackable .gov server.

[grasswire]

144. link?

tx

[pnwmom]

147. ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/chinas-been-hacking-the-emails-of-us-officials-since-2010-report_us_55c8cc20e4b0f1cbf1e5a7e4

[truedelphi]

174. Heh. Heh. Apparently there is no link. n/t

[grasswire]

175. typical

crickets.

[Recursion]

44. I think 90% of the board doesn't get that: this was an unsecured account, not a secure one

This wasn't (supposed to) be for sending or receiving classified whether it was a private server or a government one; those are two completely different questions (if there was a classified breach, it's exactly the same legal position as if she had used a government server).

[pnwmom]

45. I think you're right. Either that, or they're being dumb on purpose. nt

[joshcryer]

51. I bet they didn't know that US intel would classify a lot of their conversations.

It's not like state is informed before-hand that an asset is working somewhere. We already know that at least one of the emails mentioned an asset. If you read her emails, just pick them at random if you're bored, you'll see really really boring policy stuff, with a lot of discussion about PR with the media as the most "controversial" stuff discussed.

I don't know if US intel is over-classifying as the Clinton side claims, they probably are just being cautious, but not overly so. It probably goes into intel methods and them putting themselves in the heads of foreign security agencies, and saying "hey, they can derive X from this email Sid sent, which, while it is a publicly available news report, could be telling." If I live to be 80-90 I'm going to laugh my ass off reading the declassified reports and everyone will go "oh geez, so silly."

[Recursion]

52. Hell, any of us mentioning the drone program in Pakistan are in violation

There's no liability because we were never read in, but still.

[joshcryer]

53. Figures.

And you'd know what I'm talking about... so silly.

[Skwmom]

38. You pointing that out is an example of pure sexism.

Shame on you.

[cantbeserious]

41. Duplicity Is As Duplicity Does

eom

[w4rma]

42. Fmr. Top DOJ Official: Clinton Likely Committed ‘Biggest Violation of Federal Records Act in History

Dan Metcalfe was the Founding Director of the Justice Department’s Office of Information and Privacy (1981-2007). Metcalfe was essentially “the federal government’s chief information-disclosure ‘guru.'”
…
Such is the case with federal records laws such as the Federal Records Act and the Freedom of Information Act, which govern the conduct of federal employees and officials, even that of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

What’s more, the civil sanctions provided in these laws can be applied only to people who still remain federal employees at the time at which their violation is discovered and acted upon. In other words, if you violate these laws and then leave government service quickly enough, you are beyond the reach of their penalties. Indeed, a common refrain among political appointees during the latter part of the George W. Bush Administration was: “That’s OK, because by the time anyone finds out about it, we’ll be long gone.”

The Federal Records Act (or “FRA”) is a decades-old federal law that governs the creation, maintenance, preservation, and disposition of federal records, regardless of form or format, including electronic records such as e-mail. Simply put, it tells those who work for the federal government that they must document their work and keep such records safe during their tenures. Then, when someone leaves a federal position, the FRA requires that all such records be reviewed in conjunction with an agency records officer so that the agency (i.e., not the employee alone) can make decisions about which records will be preserved.
…
Any failure to meet these legal obligations, from the beginning of an employee’s tenure to the end, is punishable with administrative sanctions up to and including dismissal.
…
So what the public is left with, in the case of these key federal records laws, is a statutory scheme that is effectively toothless in most instances, especially in the cases of law-flouting political employees such as Secretary Clinton who seem to do just whatever they please and can get away with — literally.

And one more conclusion should be obvious: It is long past time for Congress to take a close look at this — regardless of how Secretary Clinton manages to fare on the criminal side of her docket — and update the Federal Records Act to provide meaningful sanctions (not to mention oversight) that effectively disincentivize at least such contumacious violations of it. Anything less, in the face of such sad circumstances would be abnegation of legislative responsibility as well.

Dan Metcalfe is a registered Democrat who has long said that he will vote for Hillary Clinton in November “if she escapes indictment and manages to become the Democratic presidential nominee.”

http://lawnewz.com/politics/hillary-clinton-absolutely-violated-the-federal-records-act-heres-why-she-cant-be-punished/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1958677
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1958733

[pnwmom]

48. Except the Federal Records Act didn't cover emails till it was amended by statute in 2014.

The Act was amended a year after Hillary left office, to include emails among the documents that must be preserved. This amendment was enacted in recognition of the fact that the original law didn't cover emails -- which is why Colin Powell and others could simply destroy all their emails up on leaving office.

The writer conveniently left out that fact. He also doesn't mention that, whatever he claims about his party preferences now, he was appointed by President Reagan and helped draft the infamous Ashcroft memo, defending government agency decisions to withhold information sought under the FOIA.

https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2015/nr15-23.html

Press Release
December 1, 2014

National Archives Welcomes Presidential and Federal Records Act Amendments of 2014
H.R. 1233 modernizes definition of Federal records to include electronic records

Washington, DC…On November 26th, President Barack Obama signed into law H.R. 1233, the Presidential and Federal Records Act Amendments of 2014. This new law modernizes records management by focusing more directly on electronic records, and complements efforts by the National Archives and the Office of Management and Budget to implement the President’s 2011 Memorandum on Managing Government Records.

Major updates to the Presidential and Federal Records Acts include:

Strengthening the Federal Records Act by expanding the definition of Federal records to clearly include electronic records. This is the first change to the definition of a Federal record since the enactment of the act in 1950.

Confirming that Federal electronic records will be transferred to the National Archives in electronic form.

Granting the Archivist of the United States final determination as to what constitutes a Federal record.

Authorizing the early transfer of permanent electronic Federal and Presidential records to the National Archives, while legal custody remains with the agency or the President.

Clarifying the responsibilities of Federal government officials when using non-government email systems.

Empowering the National Archives to safeguard original and classified records from unauthorized removal.

Codifying procedures by which former and incumbent Presidents review Presidential records for constitutional privileges.

[eomer]

62. No, FRA did cover emails. The 2014 change modernized the language but the old language covered them.

Here is the relevant section prior to the 2014 change:

44 U.S.C. Chapter 33
§ 3301. Definition of records
As used in this chapter, “records”
includes all books, papers, maps, photographs, machine readable materials, or other
documentary materials, regardless of physical form or
characteristics, made or received by an agency of the United States Government
under Federal law or in connection with the transaction of public business and preserved
or appropriate for preservation by that agency or its legitimate successor as evidence of
the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, operations, or other activities
of the Government or because of the informational value of data in them.
Library and museum material made or acquired and preserved solely for
reference or exhibition purposes,
extra copies of documents preserved only for convenience of
reference, and stocks of publications and of processed documents are not
included.

Clearly that language covers electronic documents. It does so by very general language that covers documents "regardless of physical form or characteristics". The change in 2014 just modernizes the language to specifically mention electronic forms of documents but clearly they already were covered by the more general language.

Here is the new provision after the 2014 change:

44 U.S.C. Chapter 33
§ 3301. Definition of records
(a) RECORDS DEFINED.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—As used in this chapter, the term “records”—
(A) includes all recorded information, regardless of form or
characteristics, made or received by a Federal agency
under Federal law or in connection with the transaction of public business and preserved
or appropriate for preservation by that agency or its legitimate successor as evidence of
the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, operations, or other activities
of the United States Government or because of the informational value of data in them;
and
(B) does not include —
(i) library and museum material made or acquired and preserved solely for
reference or exhibition purposes; or
(ii) duplicate copies of records preserved only for convenience.
(2) RECORDED INFORMATION DEFINED.— For purposes of paragraph (1), the term
‘recorded information’ includes all traditional forms of records, regardless of physical form or
characteristics, including information created, manipulated, communicated, or stored in digital or
electronic form.
(b) DETERMINATION OF DEFINITION.—The Archivist’s determination whether recorded
information, regardless of whether it exists in physical, digital, or electronic form, is a record as
defined in subsection (a) shall be binding on all Federal agencies.

[pnwmom]

110. The whole reason for the amended bill was that original bill was not viewed as covering emails.

Which is why people from other administrations were allowed to destroy millions of emails when they left office.

[eomer]

114. No, the reason was that there were attempts to find wiggle room where there really wasn't any.

Here's an article from July 2014 (which was before the law change) that shows the official interpretation was that electronic records were already covered:

[h2]Archives Reminds IRS that Instant Messages Must be Retained[/h2]
The emergence this week of a failure of the Internal Revenue Service to back up communications sent by employees on its internal instant message program has added new pressure on the tax agency to revamp its information technology procedures.

-snip-

When asked about the so-called OCS system of internal messaging used by some within IRS, Koskinen said he was unfamiliar with OCS, but that his IT team was communicating with the National Archives and Records Administration on the issue of how such communications should be handled under the Federal Records Act.

An Archives spokeswoman, in a statement to Government Executive, said, “The definition of a federal record includes all machine-readable materials made or received by an agency under federal law or in connection with the transaction of public business. Agencies that allow instant messaging traffic on their networks must recognize that such content may be a federal record and must be managed accordingly. NARA has issued an FAQ on Instant Messaging that provides general information about these potential records.”

In a separate development, a U.S. district court on Thursday ruled that the IRS must explain how it lost Lerner emails from 2011, and appointed a federal magistrate to probe ways of obtaining the lost emails from other sources. That ruling was a victory for the nonprofit conservative Judicial Watch.

[pnwmom]

116. And this is yet another reminder that most agencies were not interpreting the law to cover

all electronic communications.

In addition, the amended law was passed in 2013, but didn't go into effect till 2014. They were trying to inform everybody before that happened.

[eomer]

123. Not correct, the law was adopted by legislature on Nov 12, 2014 and signed into law on Nov 26, 2014.

The law was not passed in 2013.

[sofa king]

117. Also violated Hatch Act and Presidential Records Act

Bush's 22 million destroyed emails were a clear violation of the Presidential Records Act, which requires the preservation of ALL Presidential records:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Records_Act
http://www.archives.gov/about/laws/presidential-records.html

Furthermore, the use of the gwb43.com server was a clear violation of the Hatch Act, which prohibits the use of election machinery in the execution of the office of the President. They also used georgewbush.com as an email server address, which was registered directly to the Bush reelection campaign.

So yeah, the Bush Administration's crimes are about a hundred thousand times larger in scope and magnitude, and guess what? The election results of Ohio in 2004 also passed through the Bush servers.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2008/Documents_reveal_how_Ohio_routed_2004_1031.html

THIS IS WHY THIS BULLSHIT IS A STORY NOW. Because the smart fraction of the Republican Party stands to lose their security clearances and be banned from public office forever, unless they can hold Mrs. Clinton's own tiny by comparison infraction over her head for the duration of her Presidency.

[6chars]

46. email, blue dress. got it. now for running the country.

that she had a server is not something that actually affects anything. the real question is what would she do as president that affects the real world. i suspect the people who are most worked up about the email are those on the right and far left who don't want her to implement her policies in the real world.

[pinebox]

64. Actually the fact she had a server affects many things

Ask yourself, do you REALLY want someone running the country who can't even secure her own email? Seriously, 14 year olds know this shit. She literally put the security of the country at risk here.

[pdsimdars]

76. Are people really this shallow and uninformed?

No way I'm going to try to explain things to this mind.

Buh bye/

[6chars]

108. you would be surprised

at how smart i am.

[Logical]

54. Starry eyed fans don't care I admit. Carry on!

[Logical]

83. Lol, yet "inevitable" is still losing states to a guy most dems did not even know.....

Hillary is a terrible dem and a flawed candidate.

[Logical]

112. She is not trusted nation wide. Name recognition is all she is running on. nt

[woolldog]

109. And yet she's less flawed than SBS.

[grasswire]

145. NOBODY believes that.

Not even you

[woolldog]

146. If I didn't, I'd support Sanders.

I don't care a whit about either one of them except who has the best chance of winning the GE. And about 13 million Democratic voters agree with me that she's preferable to Sanders.

[MFM008]

49. I dont care

Im not defending it. I don't care OR Benghazi or Vince Foster or Whitewater OR Monica Lewinski.
Its all garbage.
Now what other republican talking points would you like to drag out like an animal to slaughter?

[Logical]

55. The other things you listed are pure BS i agree with you! Her email was a really.....

Stupid thing for her to do and now she is paying the price.

And comparing foster to this email issue is pure stupidty.

[Demsrule86]

56. So true

Rice and Powell just used Gmail and Hotmail...I really think they need to be brought to justice risking us that way...why my google account has been hacked at least twice! Thank goodness ...Hillary Clinton had a private server with good security that appears not to have been hacked...and did not rely on private companies with spotty track records in terms of security. We also know that state was hacked twice by the Chinese. State has an antiquated system thanks to evil Republicans who refuse to invest in infrastructure even when needed for national security!! Hillary was smart and should be thanked, but of course, the right wing and Bernie supporter's smear machine rolls on and on and on.

[pdsimdars]

61. Geuss she broke that ceiling. First ever !!!!

You go girl !!!!

[pdsimdars]

63. Well, come on now, cut her a break. . . how could she have known that she would get

classified information in her job as SECRETARY OF STATE? Who could have guessed?

[Dem2]

66. OK?

I feel like I'm on Free Republic. I'm used to that, no biggie, don't worry about it.

Tell me how this information gives me a better option for this fall's election?

What is the alternative?

[asuhornets]

71. Who cares?

[randome]

80. Tip #1: talk for weeks about a bogus issue.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[asuhornets]

81. It's like a witch hunt...n/t

[gordianot]

88. No need.....n/t

[annavictorious]

78. And what about this

Did you know that she also murdered Vince Foster and President Obama was born in Kenya?

[JoePhilly]

79. How many SOSs in US history used email at all?

btw ... we know the official government email systems were hacked. But there is no evidence that Hillary's were.

And as for denial mode ... you might want to check the delegate math and the response to it from Bernie fans regarding where it stands

[JoePhilly]

94. Garnished with Bitter Herbs ... and for desert ...

... sour grapes and rotten apples.

[pnwmom]

151. Colin Powell did. And he exclusively used a private server and destroyed all his emails.

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell says he doesn’t have any emails to turn over to the State Department.
Appearing on ABC’s “This Week” Sunday, Powell responded to revelations that he used a personal email account, rather than a government one, when he was in charge of the State Department. Questions about his email use arose last week when it was disclosed that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton used a personal email account during her tenure.


“I don’t have any to turn over. I did not keep a cache of them. I did not print them off. I do not have thousands of pages somewhere in my personal files,” Powell said. “A lot of the emails that came out of my personal account went into the State Department system. They were addressed to State Department employees and state.gov domain, but I don’t know if the servers in the State Department captured those or not. “


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/colin-powell-hillary-clinton-email-state-department-115870#ixzz48gZuUbHC
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

[NCTraveler]

84. I love the way you are attacking it.

Take it along with the other BS being slung and your candidate has nothing. At one point you were talking revolution, now it is all Clinton all the time for you. A revolution without a comprehensive message.

Well done obsessing over Clinton. Poor Sanders is trying to get his message out but Clinton simply carries too much stature. Most of his supporters abandoned him months ago when it comes to message delivery. It's been a failed approach for decades so your great idea is to double down on it.

[Logical]

85. When did i ever mention revolution? Provide link! I assume it is just you making up shit again.

[NCTraveler]

99. I never truly believed you were a part of the "revolution".

[gordianot]

86. Na na nynana step on a crack break your mother's back WHO CARES?

WHAT ME WORRY? I TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU. YOUR MOMMY WEARS ARMY SHOES. Such insight. Who Care.

[bkkyosemite]

97. This election is fixed. Her email server is a joke and if they let her go on this will

be just another corrupt issue let go. The reason she is winning is because the votes were tampered with plain and simple.

[apnu]

98. 100 percent huh?

You know this how? You've seen the logs from both Hillary's private server and thr State Department's servers? Do tell us how you came to know that every single email Hillary sent was on that server.

More right-wing nonsense being pushed by so-called Bernie supporters.

[Logical]

113. LOL, I imagine google is hard for you, so here you go.......

WASHINGTON — Hillary Rodham Clinton exclusively used a personal email account to conduct government business as secretary of state, State Department officials said, and may have violated federal requirements that officials’ correspondence be retained as part of the agency’s record.

Mrs. Clinton did not have a government email address during her four-year tenure at the State Department. Her aides took no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time, as required by the Federal Records Act.



http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/us/politics/hillary-clintons-use-of-private-email-at-state-department-raises-flags.html

[apnu]

120. Damn, I thought Hillary used the State Dept email system some of the time.

Thanks for the link.

I thought its preposterous that she'd actively avoid using it. This NYT article says she did that and nobody in the State Department did boo about it? Nobody at the National Archives said boo about it? There's multiple levels of government here that was simply ignored and few seemed to care.

This problem is way beyond Hillary Clinton, it strikes at the core of policies and procedures, regulations and law, plus enforcement. If Hillary could so cavalierly ignore and flaunt the rules, who else is doing so?

We do know Bush's White House "lost" millions of government emails and yet nobody's been held accountable for it.

Again, nobody cares.

While this is a commentary on Hillary Clinton, and that's apt, the problem is much bigger than just her.

[treestar]

100. I don't think anyone cares

I do not think the SOS would have IT people who wouldn't do things the way they thought most secure. The government is entirely hack-able and in fact maybe more so. Everyone who praised Eddie Snowden for doing it should at least be glad Hilary made it easier for the likes of him to create more "transparency" (IOW if they really think it was less secure that way, it should be a good, not a bad thing to that crowd ).

[kstewart33]

103. That is absolutely horrific!

Oh, the humanity!

[Babel_17]

121. Well, pundits will be looking at the tea leaves revealed by the next primaries

If Secretary Clinton's campaign suffers any serious embarrassment it will bring up the question as to how much that was caused by this issue (and the others).

It would be an elephant in the room type situation regarding the GE. How much do the voters care about it, and what is their demographic in the swing states. And are there implications down ticket, is another question.

[ContinentalOp]

122. What percentage is mentioned as acceptable in the law?

Oh it doesn't mention a percentage? You're just making stuff up? If it was permissible to send one email using a private account then it's permissible to send all emails using a private account.

[Rilgin]

142. It was not permissible for Powell. However ...

What Powell did was also wrong noone should think it was right. It was not. However, it was not a blatant flaunting of the rules. When he became SOS, he set up his .gov email account which is what he was supposed to do. He used it for government business. He did not refuse to use a .gov email address which would as a matter of course have IT professionals supporting it and would have as a matter of course proper archiving and storage to comply with disclosure laws.

Here is what Powell did wrong. Powell also had his long term personal email account. What he did was infrequently use his personal email for government business because he was at home and not at the office. He mostly followed the rules set up for government workers. He was supposed to use his personal account only for his personal business and did not quite keep to that.

Hillary never had a .gov account. She did all her government business through her personal email account. If she had both, and kept their purposes separate it would not have been an issue and if she messed up and for convenience from home used her personal email when she could not get on her .gov email it would be similar to Powell.

Comparing Powell and Clinton is similar to comparing someone who never obeys and does not recognize the validity of traffic laws regardless of time or situation and someone who ran a red light once when he/she was late for work and no one was around.

[pnwmom]

152. You have been misinformed. Colin Powell exclusively used the private server.

Like Hillary, he was aware that since he addressed many of his emails to others with State department accounts, they may have been saved there. But he deleted those on his private account.

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell says he doesn’t have any emails to turn over to the State Department.
Appearing on ABC’s “This Week” Sunday, Powell responded to revelations that he used a personal email account, rather than a government one, when he was in charge of the State Department. Questions about his email use arose last week when it was disclosed that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton used a personal email account during her tenure.


“I don’t have any to turn over. I did not keep a cache of them. I did not print them off. I do not have thousands of pages somewhere in my personal files,” Powell said. “A lot of the emails that came out of my personal account went into the State Department system. They were addressed to State Department employees and state.gov domain, but I don’t know if the servers in the State Department captured those or not. “

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/colin-powell-hillary-clinton-email-state-department-115870#ixzz48gZuUbHC
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[Rilgin]

158. You have a point but are also misinformed -- link included

Colin used 2 accounts, one a government provided account for classified or secure emailing and one personal account for what he called housekeeping. Hillary only used the one personal account for all business. You have implied he used a personal account for all emails.

Powell said he did not maintain a record of all his emails on the personal account. His treatment was wrong. Both Powell and Hillary have the right to use personal email to email their friends and do personal business but should have used a .gov for all state department business. Powell at least recognized that some emails were not appropriate for his private account. His actions were not as reckless as not ever using government email even though he was clearly wrong.

This does not address the server issues which is another issue. My primary issue with Hillary and Powell relates to the FOIA and not the security of her server. The security and national security issues will be addressed by the FBI and violations yes or no seem technical. The FOIA is a different matter. Hillary clearly shielded all of her emails from public disclosure. It took years after her tenure for the government to regain possession of those emails she chose to part with. This was unacceptable. If she set up a server and archived it to the Government each month, I would have less of a problem. The problem is that she clearly set up this system so as to be unaccountable and open transparent government is a democratic party goal and very important to me. I was outraged when the Bush administration deleted emails. They did that to avoid disclosure. I just have the same outrage when democratic officials do the same or similar things.

[pnwmom]

160. Wrong. Hillary used SCIF systems for classified documents, systems that were set up for her

both at her home and at State, and at home were guarded by the Secret Service. She also conducted State business over the telephone and sent documents by courier.

She did NOT use "the one personal account for all business." Where did you get that idea?

And in using for a personal account for non-classified and SCIF for classified, she was following the same procedure as her predecessors at State.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2016/02/07/the-technology-behind-hillary-clintons-email-scandal-explained/#5600b72b78c9

In fact, government operates under the presumption that email messages will be intercepted, and uses two methods to keep sensitive information secret. The first, for the most highly secret material, involves hard copies of classified documents. These are not allowed to be copied or sent electronically and can only be transferred by a government courier.

The second method involves something called a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF), a facility which is used for electronically encrypted information. This is done by using large random numbers to scramble messages so that, even if they are intercepted, they can’t be read by anyone who doesn’t have the key. Truly secret information is never sent by regular email.

So, for the purposes of security, it really doesn’t matter whether Hillary Clinton was using a government issued email or her own personal server. To a large extent unencrypted email is unencrypted email, no matter where the server resides. And while it is true that Clinton used her own private server for unclassified business, she also regularly used a SCIF for secure communication (one was installed at her residence).

http://www.newsweek.com/colin-powell-emails-hillary-clinton-424187

But Powell and Rice’s aides did nothing wrong. (I’m going to focus on them so that partisans who say Clinton broke the law have to attack respected Republicans first.) Start with this: Powell and Rice, like all modern secretaries of state, each had at least two email accounts—one personal and the other for communications designated as highly classified at the time of their creation . For classified information, both of them—and their aides with appropriate clearance—had a sensitive compartmented information facility, or what is known in intelligence circles as a SCIF. Most senior officials who deal with classified information have a SCIF in their offices and their homes.

These are not just extra offices with a special lock. Each SCIF is constructed following complex rules imposed by the intelligence and defense communities. Restrictions imposed on the builders are designed to ensure that no unauthorized personnel can get into the room, and the SCIF cannot be accessed by hacking or electronic eavesdropping. A group called the technical surveillance countermeasures team (TSCM) investigates the area or activity to check that all communications are protected from outside surveillance and cannot be intercepted.

Most permanent SCIFs have physical and technical security, called TEMPEST. The facility is guarded and in operation 24 hours a day, seven days a week; any official on the SCIF staff must have the highest security clearance. There is supposed to be sufficient personnel continuously present to observe the primary, secondary and emergency exit doors of the SCIF. Each SCIF must apply fundamental red-black separation to prevent the inadvertent transmission of classified data over telephone lines, power lines or signal lines.

SNIP

So there is no Powell or Rice email scandal. And no doubt, that will infuriate the Republicans who are trying so hard to trick people into believing Clinton committed a crime by doing the exact same thing as her predecessors.

[anotherproletariat]

126. You mean in the entire 240 year history of our country? Wow, that is impressive...

Oh wait, email has only been widely used for 15-20 of those years.

[lapfog_1]

139. I've posted this before

I worked for the federal government for just over a decade as a senior scientist at NASA (official title "Chief Scientist" but that title applied to dozens of people so I wasn't like the NASA CTO or something).

I did not have a security clearance but did undergo an FBI background check and did handle sensitive data.

For my entire time at NASA (and going forward in the private sector because it was a good idea) I maintained two laptops, two cell phones, two tablets, etc. One was strictly used for government business and one was used for personal stuff. If I got email or phone calls or chat on my NASA equipment that was not related to NASA business I would forward it to my personal accounts and vice versa. I believe that many if not all of the other people that I worked with did the same but I won't swear to it.

During my career (1989 to 1999) if I traveled to certain countries or talked to individuals from those proscribed countries at parties or conventions... I was required to submit a contact report that detailed who I talked to and what was the subject of the conversation.

It is my belief that Secretary Clinton transacted all of her business (personal and government) on a private server because of her time as FLOTUS previously and the rapacious appetite of the Republicans for anything they can try to turn into a "Clinton Scandal".

This had made her paranoid but not without reason.

The paranoia has clouded her judgment on this issue, her desire to keep anything and everything out of the hands of those who wish to hurt her politically has caused her to make what I consider a huge error in judgment. She should not have created the private server and used it for State Department business. If she wanted to say something that would have been embarrassing she should have used a different server for that, or even better, not communicated those thoughts in any way that leaves a electronic or paper trail.

The damage is done... and she has shown a complete lack of judgment on security, whether or not she is indicted or convicted of any crime. I believe this paranoia and lack of judgment should be taken into account when viewing her qualifications to be President.

[Uncle Joe]

143. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Logical.

[pnwmom]

148. Colin Powell said ALL of his emails were on a private server and he deleted them all.

And where is your evidence that Karl Rove ever used a .gov account. We know he used the Republican party server and deleted 22 MILLION emails during the US attorney scandal.


http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/colin-powell-hillary-clinton-email-state-department-115870

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell says he doesn’t have any emails to turn over to the State Department.
Appearing on ABC’s “This Week” Sunday, Powell responded to revelations that he used a personal email account, rather than a government one, when he was in charge of the State Department. Questions about his email use arose last week when it was disclosed that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton used a personal email account during her tenure.
Story Continued Below

“I don’t have any to turn over. I did not keep a cache of them. I did not print them off. I do not have thousands of pages somewhere in my personal files,” Powell said. “A lot of the emails that came out of my personal account went into the State Department system. They were addressed to State Department employees and state.gov domain, but I don’t know if the servers in the State Department captured those or not. “






http://www.pensitoreview.com/2015/03/18/flashback-rove-erases-22-million-white-house-emails-on-private-server-at-height-of-u-s-attorney-scandal-media-yawns/

Clinton has said she deleted about 50,000 emails that dealt with personal matters, citing her daughter’s wedding and her mother’s funeral as examples. All the correspondence pertaining to official business was turned over to and archived by State. The deletion of the emails, though perfectly legal, has excited House Republicans, including Speaker John Boehner, who has announced plans to deploy House committees to investigate what might aptly be called Servergate.


Never mind that former Secretary of State Colin Powell, a Republican, has said he used a system similar to Clinton’s — and never mind that in 2007 Karl Rove deleted 22 million emails from a private server in the Bush White House — a matter about which the Beltway media said little and Republicans in Congress, like Rep. John Boehner, said nothing.

Here is a brief refresher on the White House email scandal:

Not long after George W. Bush assumed the presidency in 2001, Rove, his top political aide, set up a private email server for use in the White House. The stated purpose of the system — the primary domain name on which was gwb43.com — was that it would be used exclusively for the sort of political correspondence that Bush and Rove were not permitted to do on the taxpayer’s dime.

Seven years later, Bush and Rove were embroiled in two competing scandals — the Valerie Plame scandal, in which operatives for Vice Pres. Dick Cheney, including Rove and Scooter Libby, were accused of unmasking Valerie Plame, a CIA specialist in the black market for weapons of mass destruction, for purely partisan reasons, and the U.S. Attorney purge, in which Rove’s political operation in the White House was accused of ordering Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to purge eight U.S. attorneys who were qualified prosecutors and replace them with political hacks with little or no prosecutorial experience.

SNIP

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/03/11/two-names-the-press-omits-from-email-coverage-c/202847

[grasswire]

176. Powell used AOL for email.

Hardly a "private server."

[pnwmom]

178. AOL isn't a government server. It's a private company. And Powell used it for all his

non-classified email -- not the .gov account that had been available to him. There was no functional difference in the account Powell used and the account Hillary used.

[pdsimdars]

173. Espoinage. . .. that's the law. Having government information where it's not supposed to be.

[grasswire]

177. tru dat nt