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[Cheese Sandwich]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Cheese Sandwich) on Sun May 15, 2016, 08:41 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[tonyt53]

1. People that would actually do such a thing wouldn't vote in November anyway, even for Bernie

[Duckhunter935]

6. Well I have voted since 1980

I would vote for Bernie but Hillary has not earned my vote.

[CorporatistNation]

23. Fact Is... THE SOPHISTICATED HIGH SCHOOL MENTALITY AND COMPLETE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY

that promotes such CRIMINAL SYSTEMIC ELECTION FRAUD IS PATENTLY INTOLERABLE AND IS CAUSING DEMOCRATS TO RE-THINK THEIR LOYALTY TO A PARTY STRUCTURE THAT ENGINEERS SYSTEMIC DISENFRANCHISEMENT!

Apparently the party "leader's" foresight does not extend beyond a Hillary bumper sticker.

[bkkyosemite]

37. Is this comment for real?

"The supporters of HRC have been the more educated and the better off financially than the typical Bernie supporter, and I'm one of those very HRC supporters. Why are Bernie's supporters so damned uppity when they have no real reason to be?"

There are many many professionals i.e., doctors, lawyers, psychologists, IT, Managers, CEO's etc WHO ARE BERNIE SUPPORTERS...if you meant that comment, how uppity dare you! Bernie supporters from ALL WALKS OF LIFE are voting for the only candidate that TELLS THE TRUTH!

[Hortensis]

64. Sure, they do. Or did. Frankly, I'm wondering how

many educated people couldn't have become increasingly doubtful as the season went on. It's one thing to want the change Bernie calls for (who on the left doesn't!?), another to continue to support him after it becomes clear that he has no plan for accomplishing what experts say couldn't be done anyway.

Then there are all the ethics issues. Many who were initially attracted by a belief in his probity must have become aware that their hero has flat feet. We are talking about educated and presumably relatively intelligent people, such as the professionals mentioned, after all.

[Duckhunter935]

44. Voter apathy is due to

The broken and rigged system. Hillary was anointed and the super delegates tilted the scale before one ballot was cast.

[Ohioblue22]

51. That is your bubble . You built that

Nobody ever loses elections anymore they were stolen or rigged all of them all the time

[Duckhunter935]

57. Yep, when the establishment pick

Starts with a 500 "delegate" lead prior to one ballot cast. When the establishment limits debates and schedules them for the least audiance. Yes, the establishments choice has an advantage and it is rigged from the start.

[Ohioblue22]

69. Like I said

[Silver_Witch]

108. Exactly - truth burns them!

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

52. "The broken and rigged system."

Right there.

[HDSam]

53. Based on

what your post suggests, my wife and I should be supporting Hillary.

We're not.

One of my co-workers comes from a wealthy and conservative family - they're very well educated and voting for Hillary because they see her as more conservative than a progressive based on some of her past positions (anti-gay rights for example) and likely won't do anything to raise taxes on the 1%. My co-worker, however, even though he's a well-educated employed trust fund recipient, is voting for Bernie.

So here we have examples of conservatives voting for Hillary and the well-educated and secure voting for Bernie.

[Fawke Em]

63. Oligarch much?

The supporters of HRC have been the more educated and the better off financially than the typical Bernie supporter, and I'm one of those very HRC supporters. Why are Bernie's supporters so damned uppity when they have no real reason to be?

I think you need to read Thomas Frank's, "Listen, Liberal" to understand why what you just said is the very reason the party is splitting to its core.

http://billmoyers.com/story/author-thomas-frank-talks-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-and-his-new-book-listen-liberal/

[Merryland]

70. Well EXCUSE ME

for not realizing how very educated and cultured Hillary supporters are in comparison to Bernie Sanders supporters. Did you get straight A's? Are you Phi Beta Kappa? Exactly how much "better off financially" are you than me? I can feel the air of superiority seeping out of your post, but would advise you it's not a widely held opinion, tonyt53.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

36. Drumpf thanks you for your support. Every non vote for Hillary is a vote for him.

If she is the nominee, that is.

[Duckhunter935]

50. No, it is not

I know my state and what my vote is worth for the top of the ticket. What is it with some of you and the outright lies? That really wants me to vote for her, NOT!!!

[uponit7771]

116. yeah...yeah it is

[Loudestlib]

84. If they wanted to support Trump, they would vote for him.

If Hillary wants those votes, she should champion some of the issues that they care about.

[Jackilope]

88. If votes can be hacked and flipped, our votes don't count for crap.

I will participate and vote for down ticket items. I haven't decided whether to leave presidential blank or write in. In my red state, it doesn't matter. I change to Ind. following that, though it appears even registration is tampered with. DNC did this to voters, if you want to push blame and "loyalty".

[Mnpaul]

111. Save it for the Clinton supporters

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1962881

and those who voted to leave this crap up

[Hortensis]

45. The "trendy" timing is no coincidence.

Bernsters are (mostly) finally forced to realize that Sanders is not going to win.
Bernsters are acting out.

All seems to be as expected.

The poseurs were always leaving eventually. Once the new rules kick in, once the Bernie-cum-Trump conservatives head off to badmouth us where that's allowed, and once the terminal antagonistas head off to wherever they came from, things will calm down a bit.

Those who genuinely want progressive change will stick, and that's most.

The personality cultists are unclear, but likely what they do will depend on Bernie. Somewhat. The bus, of course, always awaits.

[Beowulf]

65. A disgusting post.

[Hortensis]

80. Why?

The reason for the "trend" is too obviously true to deny.

As for what the various Bernsters will do,

1. Most Bernie supporters are progressive change supporters first and will continue. It was never all about Bernie for them, and they will accept efforts to woo them. Hopefully, this does not disgust you.

2. Some Bernie supporters are conservatives or just "anti-establishment" "populist" economic and/or social malcontents who will now move on to the OTHER anti-establishment candidate. This is just reality. They were never on our side of the ballot, and we all knew it all along, just not that there were so many of them.

3. The "antagonistas" are consumed with antagonism and resentment, and even hate against you-know-who, and I'm putting them in their own group because they are ruled by it. Same as #2. Good riddance, and if it's not them you're finding disgusting you're free to find my statement disgusting instead.

4. The personality cultists? Is the suggestion that some found a Leader in Bernie and that following their Leader is their primary motivation what disgusts? Authoritarianism is unfortunate and unadmirable, yes, and depending on the leader can be a serious problem, yet it's extremely common, and there is a left-wing strain. Is this the reality that is too disgusting to be mentioned? I'd say we need to always keep a careful eye out and "mention" it whenever it arises, but of course you may feel different.

[Beowulf]

85. Your points are nice and neat

and wrong. Not to mention arrogant and insulting.

Yes, Bernie supporters are progressives in the whole. And in the whole they recognize that Hillary is no progressive option. She clearly is a neoliberal in social and economic policy and neoconservative in foreign policy. Bernie supporters hold that neoliberalism and neoconservatism are primary causes of so many of our most significant problems plus are major obstacles to real change. Voting for Hillary is a vote for fear (of Trump.). Many of us have vowed never to cast another vote in fear of the opposition. If anything this primary season has made clear that the establishment of the Democratic Party views progressives with as much contempt as Republicans.

[Chezboo]

99. I'm trying to find a kinder word for this ^ than horseshit

45% of democrats don't want ->Her and I'm one of them. I have been a dem all 46 years of my voting life and, like JFK, am not afraid to say I'm a liberal. That knocks out points 1 and 2. I am antagonistic toward "you-know-who" because of her record, history pertaining to that record, what she says and her actions and I've seen it since the 90's. I don't like her, but if I didn't like her and agreed with her stances I'd still vote for her. But she's so off the mark of what my belief system is she's an intolerable choice. I will never vote for a neocon and that's what she is... again, I pay attention to what I listed above, not republican points, not msm, but my own research. That knocks out point 3. Point 4 has me puzzled because my first reaction is what you are describing is the "I'm with -> Her" contingent. Or is that too disgusting to be mentioned?

[amborin]

32. Lifelong Democrats who vote in EVERY election will not vote against their core values in November

[Ohioblue22]

38. You will then be part of statistical norm for every election

[Fawke Em]

54. I've voted for the Democrat in every presidential election since 1988.

But if she's the nominee, I won't be voting for the Democrat this year. That said, I will vote in November. I always do. Sitting out the process won't help and would only hurt.

However, registering a protest vote for the Green Party to show the (formerly) Democratic Party that it's FDR base is tired of their rightward shift has to be done at some point or else they'll never stop shifting that direction.

And, when many of us think Clinton is as bad as Trump (for different reasons, mind you), this year seems like the year to do that. I think we'll be screwed with either candidate, so there's really nothing to lose.

[Duckhunter935]

61. I agree

I always will vote down ticket, but Hillary will not get my vote

[Silver_Witch]

105. That is the new lie Hillary Supporters are spouting?

Well you are wrong. I have voted since 1974 and will vote this election as well.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

2. Give them credit, the GOP has orchestrated propaganda that is posted here all day long

attacking Hillary and it has worked beautifully.

People are so gullible and often dumb.

I think it is time for the planet to flick us off it's surface, we are annoying and harmful and we dont deserve this earth.

Drumpf will see to that, his actions will end up being the end of all life.

We deserve it, we really do.

[CrowCityDem]

4. If you don't make sure Trump doesn't win, you aren't progressive. Period.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

10. Exactly, but around here I am going to give up, there are too many gop trolls

and too many selfish people.

I will focus my efforts on GOTV

[CorporatistNation]

41. So Hillary IS A Progressive? Or Is She A Centrist? On Any Given Day Depending On The Audience

she may choose to be either....

Watch... Starting at 2:09 Progressive? or .................. Oop... Moderate?%^#$@&*%

[snort]

74. This is just GOP propaganda.

Somehow. It's hurting my gullible brain.

[Sejon]

42. The only way we could have done that is with Bernie

[Jester Messiah]

79. Well, that would be the narrative.

And it's a narrative that serves Hillary very well. But it's kinda transparent. Just demonize the fuck out of "the other" to spread the meme that it's unconscionable to vote for anyone but your preferred candidate. Never mind that there's not really all that much difference between your preferred candidate and "the other", just keep on demonizing. Hillary is fortunate that her presumptive opponent is very good at self-demonizing, but that doesn't excuse the tactic.

[FlatBaroque]

9. I certainly do not deserve it. So by "we" you must mean you

and the mouse in your pocket, in which case I agree 100% with your statement.

[Hiraeth]

21. ... sounds a lot like a conspiracy theory ...

I thought that was only something Berners subscribed ....

[apcalc]

35. I agree

A whole ton of stuff posted here has been inciteful garbage.

[Silver_Witch]

112. The truth is it is not the GOP slamming Hillary.

Hillary damages herself - there is no need for a "concerted" effort. Nor is it a right-wing conspiracy as Hillary would like you to believe. Hell the GOP can barely keep their own party together and are dying the death of one hundred cuts which they self-inflicted.

The real issue with Hillary is Hillary and then Bill.

I am neither dumb nor gullible - but I was alive and watched the Clintons and their actions and those are burned into my memory. I will NOT vote for that Woman!

[FlatBaroque]

3. Done. I was #67,293

[Joob]

7. Signed too just now, was #67,287*

[Jackie Wilson Said]

15. More privileged people who can afford it if POC and others lives are destroyed.

[Jester Messiah]

81. Damn shame they chose a candidate that was so polarizing, then.

Live by the H, die by the H.

[Silver_Witch]

113. That would be Hillary's policy - you know bringing all "those" people to heel!

[Jackie Wilson Said]

13. You will be choosing to contribute to the Drumpf election, you will be responsible for the end of

all life as well as others

[Hiraeth]

24. who died and made you boss?

[cherokeeprogressive]

33. "responsible for the end of all life as well as others"

I didn't think it was possible to cram so much bullshit hyperbole into such a small space.

You're awesome!

[snort]

75. 67530

[Nye Bevan]

5. Only people with a certain amount of privilege can afford to make that pledge (nt)

[JaneyVee]

14. +1000

[Beowulf]

73. Only people with a certain amount of privilege can afford to vote for Hillary.

Someone just posted that Hillary supporters are more affluent and educated. For the rest there is fear. Except a portion of the progressive movement headed by Bernie understands that to get the change we need, first the Democratic Party must be reformed. Failing that, a new party or migration to a different party will be necessary.

If Hillary supporters/party leaders are so afraid of Trump, they'd switch to the candidate who has the best chance of beating him instead of forcing a candidate so many see as the embodiment of what's wrong and must be changed. Or perhaps with Hillary at the head of the ticket, their privilege is safe win or lose. My status is certainly threatened by a President Trump AND a President Clinton. Neither will address the issues and conditions that matter most to me.

[haikugal]

78. BINGO!!! Thanks for saying it so well!

[senz]

98. You just busted the "affluent" meme, Beowulf.

It's amazing what they'll say.

Thanks!

[monmouth4]

11. 67,301 as of 11:52..eom

[JaneyVee]

12. Operation Chaos 2016

[Jackie Wilson Said]

17. Are posters here pledging not to vote for her allowed to be here?

[JaneyVee]

20. No. Neither is this op.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

22. This selfish and childish nonsense is harmful as it leaks out into the real world and causes more

people to make the same silly choice.

[JoePhilly]

16. "Trendy" works with a certain segment of Bernie supporters.

Until the next "trend" comes along.

[EndElectoral]

18. Don't think its trendy. Just think people have actually looked at her record and said no way.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

25. And they have decided Drumpf is fine as president.

[Hiraeth]

27. that does not compute.

one does not necessarily lead to the next. it is a fallacy.

[EndElectoral]

107. Thanks for the post. No, my decision is based solely on her record.

I don't plan on voting for Trump or any GOP member, but I will be voting for an actual progressive, and dem candidates down the ticket.

HRC's baggage just crosses the line to get my vote.

[Hiraeth]

110. JWS replied to you and his reply did not compute. Maybe you have that poster on ignore.

[EndElectoral]

120. Unfortunately, they see it as either/or. They don't realize we can still support other Dems w/o HRC

Their posts only tend to alienate Sanders supporters than encourage them. A rather stupid strategy based on their own ire.

I plan on voting for a candidate I can believe in, not one who has a "D" beside their name, but who I not only think can't win, but even if they did win who I think will do more damage than good. I cant' vote for that.

[Hiraeth]

122. I totally understand. I think we are witnessing a viable third party coming into existence.

I am not sure that is what Bernie wants but, if he can not win the nomination within the confines of the Democratic Party then I don't think his supporters will see any other recourse.

[Ohioblue22]

46. they're clinging to the great-man theory and desperate cause they think the movement dies with

Bernie's loss. Which is pretty insulting to everything he's done

[Uben]

19. Like this doesn't happen in every election?

People get pissed that their candidate isn't winning. The only option they see is to not vote for the nominee. Been happening forever. Some will vote despite their denial that they will, others will stay at home and forever bitch that their candidate did not win.
They choose to stick to their guns even though the result is the opposing party gains by their lack of voting. It's called spite.

Ignorant? Yes, but at this point, its all the ammunition they have.

Not voting? No griping. You at least have to vote for someone to acquire that right.

[Ohioblue22]

48. It's part of a statistical norm . Happens every election.

[Maedhros]

86. I had no intention of voting for Hillary (or, really, for any corporate Democrat) in the first place

I only rejoined the Democratic Party to vote for Sanders, because he best represents my interests. If he is not the nominee, I will again leave the Democratic Party and, when the General Election comes, I will vote for the candidate that best represents my interests.

It has nothing to do with spite.

[Uben]

97. Entirely your choice

The result will remain the same.

[Silver_Witch]

118. We will all be voting.

Thus we will get to complain all we like. Mostly we will be pointing out to the Hillary supporters the things she does if she is elected that are as we predicted!

[AgerolanAmerican]

26. Why would I support the result of a corrupt primary?

This primary season was SO bad that the results can't be respected.

If we are a "democratic" party in the slightest, we need a re-vote - free and fair this time.

If you believe in democracy you are honor-bound to oppose what Clinton and her allies have done - to name a few:

- rigging superdelegates
- buying out state parties in a campaign money-laundering scheme
- registration-switching of Bernie voters as in NY
- convention hijinks as in NV
- whatever the hell happened in AZ
- and the DNC's openly partisan bias

These elements together are a damning indictment of this year's primary process. None of them should ever have been allowed to happen. Clinton and her allies did everything to cut democracy out of the Democratic Party - there's no way in hell any person who believes in democracy should ever certify this result.

[Hiraeth]

28. I promise one thing only. I will vote in November. It is my civic duty.

[tularetom]

56. I don't do loyalty oaths. I don't tell anybody who I intend to vote for or not vote for

Even my wife.

But like you, I will vote in November, I have done so in every national election since 1962.

[Hiraeth]

59. I don't do well with loyalty oaths, either. A lot can happen between now and November.

[desmiller]

29. Done and done. #67318

[CrowCityDem]

30. You can't call yourself progressive if you don't use your vote to make sure Trump loses.

[timmymoff]

55. You can't call yourself progressive if

you vote for war, fracking, keystone, TPP, No fight on min wage, no fight for single payer. A vote for Clinton removes your right to be called progressive. Like how that works?

[Jackilope]

94. +1

[Jester Messiah]

82. Can and will. Who put you in charge anyway? n/t

[BillZBubb]

102. blah, blah, blah.

That tired old "argument" has flies circling around it. Give it a rest.

[CrowCityDem]

104. Letting Trump win sells out every principle of progressivism. Anyone who does is a fraud.

[CentralMass]

34. There are people who vote that don't feel the need to check the box next to

candidates who they do not support.

[bjo59]

39. After last night's debacle at the Nevada dem convention there will be many more.

[felix_numinous]

40. What do I make of it?

I think more and more people refuse to participate in fraud or vote for anyone willing to lie cheat or steal their way into office. We have had enough.

Thanks for the link

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. There is a trend. The question is how strong?

We will know in November am afraid

[grossproffit]

47. Social media leads some to assume that they're a lot more important than they are.

[notadmblnd]

49. As long as she, her minions and the DNC keep doubling down on their bullshit

I don't see any reversal of this trend occurring.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

58. How can someone equate NOT VOTING FOR HILLARY....

...as a vote for Trump????

A vote for Trump is a vote for Trump.

A vote for a 3rd candidate - or no vote at all - is exactly what it is.

It's NOT the "I will never vote for HRC" people that set this all up. They voted for Bernie....

....and DO NOT see Clinton as a viable second choice.

As a military dad - I could not vote for Clinton - period.

DO NOT say that I would be the reason Trump wins. I did not vote for him in the primary and will not do so in the GE.

How could I - and others like me - be at fault?????

[Bobbie Jo]

60. And soon the "trend-ers" will be taking this crap elsewhere.

Because it sure as hell doesn't belong here.

[NorthCarolina]

62. I think it's called reality, and a rejection of status-quo politics. -nt-

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

66. And another thing....

...blaming the 'right wing' on these attacks is ludicrous at this point.

Sure, Cunard Lines was a rival of White Star Lines.

But blaming the RW at this point is like blaming Cunard for the sinking of the Titanic (White Star Lines)

The Titanic (corrupt members of the DNC) and the iceberg (HRC) have got this 'to the bottom of the ocean' thing all wrapped up, thank you.

[enid602]

67. results

It would appear that the berners simply reject the results of our primary process. Incredible.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

68. How many primaries have been....

....un-certified?

....have devolved into chaos?

....have been challenged as not legitimate?

.....have resulted in officials being fired?

People are supposed to take the results at face value? NO way.

[enid602]

71. bern

Bernie is not capable of admitting defeat, so of course there will be a torrent of lawsuits and accusations of cheating and fraud.

[Vinca]

72. The same thing happened in 2008 with PUMAs vowing not to vote for Obama.

I really can't stand Hillary, but if the choices are a sane POTUS vs. a batshit crazy POTUS, I'll stand in line for hours to vote for her.

[cantbeserious]

76. Thank You For Sharing This Good News

eom

[bettyellen]

77. So very coy. And trendy... yeah, that is a great excuse to sit on your hands even longer.

[hughee99]

83. I wonder if this was created by the Clinton campaign to kickstart a new enemies list.

It's much easier to have people "self-report".

[NewImproved Deal]

87. .

[Bobbie Jo]

90. Spam

[Lizzie Poppet]

89. The more you know...

...the less acceptable Princess Weathervane becomes.

[senz]

91. I'll bet it's grown by leaps and bounds since last night.

They have quite a way of alienating the people they need, don't they?

[msongs]

92. youre not voting for hillary. your friends are not voting for her. we get that she is ahead by

3 million votes.

[northernsouthern]

95. This is why I was posting about ...

... if a third party would help us with down tickets. They hid the first time I posted it because they accused me of supporting a 3rd party. I was basically saying if these poeple stay home it could be worse than if a third party joins and pulls in tons of down ticket votes...but I think it would only work if the third party was not running down ticket as well.

[greatauntoftriplets]

96. I've never been trendy in my life.

[rbrnmw]

114. Me either and have no intentions to be now!!

[greatauntoftriplets]

117. I'm TFO*.

* too fucking old. Like you, I'm not about to change my ways.

[rbrnmw]

119. exactly

[MelungeonWoman]

100. It looks like a total scam.

Sign the pledge, come election day you will find that the board of elections was notified that you have moved. You'll still be able to fill out a provisional ballot.

[djean111]

103. I think you are right.

If I recall, there were a couple of sites "for Bernie's supporters" that required a LOT more information than I was comfortable with. So I did not join.

[Silver_Witch]

101. Interesting Video

Thanks for posting this link so more can see it.



I voted Bernie today 5-15-16!!!

[MineralMan]

106. Well, I think it's bullshit.

That's what I think. I also think someone is stirring it. I think that, too.

[Doctor Jack]

109. A growing trend or

a few people in an echo chamber?

[uponit7771]

115. More right wing tripe

[rbrnmw]

121. from Cheese Sandwich? Naw