2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIt's not Bernie's fault that the Democratic Party is being split
What would you expect when the party wants to both continue to serve the 1% that are screwing the rest of America, and is doing as much as possible to put a Wall Street loving neocon that is well known for being a lying shapeshifter as it's general election candidate? The reason that the party is angry is because finally the voters have an alternative choice.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)tokenlib
(4,186 posts)Obama delayed it with his " Hope and Change". Some of us thought he might neuter the Third Way. Or put on his comfortable walking shoes for workers...(Wisconsin?, elsewhere?)etc, etc....
It has been brewing for a long time..
Response to onehandle (Reply #1)
Name removed Message auto-removed
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Bernie is finally the person the left wing of the Democratic Party - the people who still hold dear all the principles the Dem Party used to stand for; unions, working people, democracy, SS, income equality, fair taxation, health care - has been wishing for but were not given due to the Dem Party leadership selling out to big money. Obama is from the right wing of the party, the DLC crowd, the Third Way gang. He and Hillary are of the same mindset of pleasing the banksters while Bernie takes them on in order to fight for the people.
There is a YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference this time. If the Dem Party establishment squashed the dreams of half its party there will be a split. And it will not be "sour grapes" it will be very real as it will come from the realization that the Dem Party is no longer the party that stands for the people. It will show loud and clear that they are the centrist party, that they embrace far too many moderate Republican principles and that anyone who wants a party that fights for them will have to go elsewhere.
.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The DLC'ers and "New Democrats" thought, like the Borg, they could assimilate everyone into their hive. Too many Democrats see what is really going on for that to happen.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)-none
(1,884 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)Any assumption that I would be supporting Hillary, if she were the only choice presented to us by the DNC, is abysmally off the mark.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Not sure where you are getting that from?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Yes. It's very split between the Third Way and the FDR Democrats.
The Nevada Convention was just a preview.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Hate to break it to you.
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)Ignore the Bernie boost in Dem regs. If Hillary is nominee
The Third Way isn't Miracle Gro...,
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Look at the super delegate endorsements.
Has anyone who is a sitting Democrat in congress said they wouldn't vote for Hillary? Not to my knowledge.
The party is fine.
We've got work to do to win the GE, but that's true everytime.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)It must be nice.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)The only thing keeping me in, if Hillary is the nominee, is fear of Republicans.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)The reason you mean it is that those supporting Hillary see life that we have serious issues with as acceptable. One reason is that you likely have never been adversely impacted by the decisions of Third Way politicians. You aren't on a fixed income, you haven't experienced a layoff due to outsourcing, you haven't had a son, daughter, or spouse killed in a needless war.
But I do think you believe things are pretty good because of your experience.
Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)So if Hillary is the democratic nominee, you would be content to vote for Trump or sit it out... Can you explain how this achieves your progressive goals? Or is it moral purity you are after?
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Hillary as well as Trump threatens many Americans' futures.
NewImproved Deal
(534 posts)[link:|
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Hillary may get us into more "wars" (quotes because nobody's bothered to declare them for quite a while), but I hope she won't nuke anybody.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)Those of us in solidly Blue or Red states are not at any risk of electing Trump by not voting Hillary. I wish it weren't the case, but however I vote in November will not be decisive. Hillary (assuming she's the candidate) will win California in all probability. And if she's losing here, my vote is the least of her problems. She's headed for a landslide loss.
I have not actually decided how I'll vote in November if she wins the nom. But "Trump's scary" won't be much of the equation. I won't be in much position to affect that.
I am in Texas and my vote for Hillary is not going to do any good, however the point remains: if you support Sanders and he's not in the race--who gets you ATLEAST some of what you want? Hillary or Trump? We live in a 2 party country so supporting a third party candidate gets us no where
TDale313
(7,820 posts)So my energy will be down ticket and I'll decide what to do with my Presidential vote, but I can do math too and I know that whatever that statement is won't be Trump's deciding vote.
If I were in a swing state (or light blue or light red, cause this election is not likely to follow traditional maps) I'd for sure be voting Hillary. The calculation would be far different.
glowing
(12,233 posts)Go with the program... I doubt highly that she will even come close to winning FL. And the biggest issue with that is that medical marijuana may take the back burner AGAIN because the youth doesn't come out to bother voting for her... We were at 58% during a swing year... A Presidential election should be a slam dunk for over 60% and we may just lose that. Ridiculous waste of a year...
I hope Grayson does get the primary win and stuff it in people's faces. He might be her only coattail left and embracing pot in FL.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Not any that make any difference except as spoilers in our current system.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)the Democratic Party that it's gone too far right for me to even consider. I've voted for the Democratic nominee for 28 years. If enough of us do that, it will get noticed.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)If it looks like TX won't make any difference, I might do the same.
Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)How does this protect said future. At the very least with a democrat in the WH you get a somewhat progressive Supreme Court for the next several decades
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)"We lost a war but at least we won a battle!"
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Maybe you think that "you got yours" and the lower 80% of Americans should fuck off.
Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)You do realize that globalization is not going anywhere, right?
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Quite an admission of guilt by you.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)tokenlib
(4,186 posts)...as the Democratic Party has allowed the country's agenda to be dragged to the right. At what point does the counteroffensive begin?
It may be easier to mobilze against a Republican promoting regressive policies, than having.to run against a Democrat who has implemented them.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)The Primary is simply bringing it to a head, since the Establishment Dems are saying "Our way or the Highway!!...But vote for us or you'll get Trump!!"
TDale313
(7,820 posts)Non-Bernie supporters don't get that for many of us this is not about Bernie, or Hillary, or this election cycle. It's about fighting for a fairer, more equal system/society and about trying to make the Democratic Party part of the solution and not the problem. And it's a long game. It took decades to get here- it'll take time to turn things around.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)are experiencing a similar event...disenfranchised portions of each party beginning to have their say. Highest unfavorability ratings for both.
Maybe it's a real cultural/political shift. That's my bet, but there is still a lot of time before November.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)And it's because the Establishments of both parties have been working together while publicly at odds.
Normal people see their doom coming from several angles. The more comfortable don't want the apple cart rocked.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)starting to understand it. I know it can get worse, too, so now is the time and Bernie has not been nominated. Whether it's this election cycle or not, remains to be seen.
But I believe that he will continue as the Elder Statesman of the New American People's Revolution...and pray to god it's peaceful.
I wish our transition was as bloodless as the Republicans, but Trump did not have the RNC et al shilling for him. He just had weak fellow candidates and a healthy dose of public image creation.
I mean, who could imagine Nancy Pelosi even meeting with Bernie. Speaking of class differentials. High end, very rich Marin County California, views to die for of the Pacific Ocean vs. Lower end, Vermont, semi-rural not rich with department store suits, Bernie. I don't know whether there are places high enough to see the Atlantic Ocean in Vermont.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)He stepped up to represent us, and so far we are stepping up as well.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)karynnj
(59,474 posts)With the Addironacks in the background. Vermont is gorgeous and many rural places have spectacular mountain views.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)do they charge like a million or two dollars for that view? Because that's what a Marin County or Malibu or San Clemente view runs, or at least did when I lived there.
I just checked Zillow for Marin County and it seems to be $1 million and up.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)NewImproved Deal
(534 posts)[link:|
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Chezboo
(230 posts)He's more of a true democrat than the rest of them, and they're threatened by that. My WWII/Korean conflict vet father would be turning over in his grave seeing what the party of FDR has tragically become.
NewImproved Deal
(534 posts)Meet the "New" Democrats...
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)"I've got a masters / professional degree, a great job, a nice house, screw you! Only the well educated should benefit in society!"
- Many Hillary Supporters
NewImproved Deal
(534 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)"I've got mine, sucks to be you."
I'm kind of in mourning...because as you point out, that's where our Third Way has led our party. In the Democratic Party, I still want desperately to believe, that even the rich liberals believe in our unyielding support of the under/former middle class.
I did see some group of rich Democrats coming out for Bernie for just that reason. Let us hope more stand up to be counted so as not to give their entire class the Marie Antoinette Award.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)laws. Not Sanders fault. Sue DNC for his theft. Not Sanders fault. Read a headline and falsely accuse Clinton. Not Sanders fault.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)insult right.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)If it comes out that way in the end, hope the result is not too godawful.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)back to the house of pain. Being followers is what got us here, but you know that and are basically complicit, wouldn't you say?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Hillary and her email server for one.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)Hillary Clinton or Leona Helmsley?
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)socially liberal and minorities invested in identity politics?
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)For one thing, we can't say for sure how many manufacturing jobs were directly lost because of the agreements, and how many would have been lost anyway due to automation and increased efficiency.
Even if we could, we also have to balance the costs here, with the benefits given to the people at the bottom of the ladder in those other countries.
It's not as simple as saying we have less jobs today than in 1992, so it must be a terrible deal that caused all of it.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)party doesn't care because it either is not being affected (right now so far) or it cares more about social issues.
What good is having the right to sit at a lunch counter, if you cant afford to buy a hamburger?
- Martin Luther King, Jr.
kcr
(15,300 posts)Minorities invested in identity politics? Should the Dem party be using terms like "identity politics?" in the first place? Let alone using phrases like "Minorities invested in identity politics" as if that's a hobby rather than their life?
Never mind plenty of Hillary supporters are low income to begin with. I don't think this is the way we convince people.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)It's not like it should not be recognized...
And BTW, I am not white and I am pissed off at Hillary's taking advantage of latinos while supporting the coup in Honduras. As someone that is half hispanic, I am very much against the continuation of American Imperialism.
kcr
(15,300 posts)This Bernie supporter thinks we could have done without the racism and sexism.
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)If Hillary gets the nod..the Bernie spike in Dem regs will evaporate, more long term Dems are fed up and going Independent. They'll be under 29% of registered voters in no time. The Third Way ain't no growth hormone..
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)He did it.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)As in a new party is born while the old party becomes meaningless.