2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI see some here are pretending that Democratic delegates weren't
removed nor had their registrations changed between April and this past weekend. Yet it clearly appears to have happened. I won't mention names, but they are pretending it didn't happen, just like when they disenfranchised so many in NY.
Nyan
(1,192 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)the top 1% of trolls (the "Brock" level) get paid 99% of the haul, the bottom 98% don't get paid, and the bottom 97% are in various degrees of denial that they're trolls.
MichaelSoE
(1,576 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Anyone who denies it, or tries to justify the farce that went down in Nevada is not on the side of the people.
elleng
(130,861 posts)and some are long-standing, formerly respected DUers, with whom I no longer 'schmooze.'
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)in seeing this for what it is.
elleng
(130,861 posts)and thanks for your participation.
madokie
(51,076 posts)last time I counted I had over 150 on my list and its grown since then.
I'm here to learn and share but not to be fed bullshit. Never liked the smell let alone the taste and furthermore I won't be having any of it
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)threads that have nothing to do with this primary. All diversions. I noticed an uptick with each scandalous event during this primary, and the Nevada Coup was no different. Thanks for your comments. I agree, whole-heartedly.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)cliffordu
(30,994 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)who vote against their own interests.
They are not living in reality or they are not being honest.
.
senz
(11,945 posts)Democracy took a big hit yesterday. It's serious, a Constitutional issue.
So glad it's on video.
PATRICK
(12,228 posts)among our "professional" political class? Are we still trying to compete with the GOP on bad process as the road to success? There is now an inexorable path this is leading toward, with all the abrogated opportunities, responsibilities and historical models gone with the hot air.
The party is acting like the cast in a Greek tragedy(the hubris crowd), like Oedipus, the strong guy in control not knowing he is just bringing about his own self inflicted fall. And if Clinton is indicted to lend some real excitement to the disaster, they will pick Biden over Sanders, hands over ears, tearing their own eyes out.
Maybe the public will weary over this angst and go for the barbarian at the gate- who after all is just a rich media star.
senz
(11,945 posts)"so far, so good" -- and they haven't been caught yet. They're on a roll.
Yes, some of us do sense that this will end with a spectacular crash, a fall.
I find it nerve wracking.
elleng
(130,861 posts)the rules DON'T apply to them.
MORE than nerve wracking, senz.
senz
(11,945 posts)they're riding too high. Something's gotta give.
Yeah, it's late, and all I have to fall back on is intuition, a sense that it isn't adding up.
We'll see what this week brings.
elleng
(130,861 posts)It's certainly not 'adding up,' but I'm not confident, at the moment, that there will be decent consequences.
senz
(11,945 posts)Hill's having her problems, too ...
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/clinton-caught-in-end-of-the-primary-trap-223199
PATRICK
(12,228 posts)No, her first problem is REAL party unity. This will be no showcase Convention but the genuine hard-nosed article. It is not a bad dream to get over and only the time lost! If the challenge of party direction for real is not resolved there is a danger of full disintegration
in a horrifying alternate universe parallel to the GOP clown wars.
Are they this afraid of approaching the New Deal ideals that they are beginning to scapegoat him for their loss in November? The real trap is that her donors won't let the Dems heal. they want total victory over all parties and all good ideas and all progressivism. And it is they who are in the marriage bed, not the American people with their putative leaders.
Hillary's solution would be to go to the GOP Convention and take it from Trump? Makes about as much sense and woefully is about as likely at this point.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)I ask myself daily WHO is there to do something about this? We don't have a free press anymore, and it seems everyone has a price these days.
I remember Nixon finally realized it as all over for him when Barry Goldwater went to the White House and told him it was. Do we have anyone to tell the Clintons to stop stealing the election, or are they all just helping them?
senz
(11,945 posts)but if even we, such as we are, can grasp what is at stake, then surely others with greater resources (clout, connections, money, megaphones) can see it too. This is not trivial.
We can support Bernie. We can put the truth out on forums and social media -- there is such a thing as the ripple effect. We can also write letters, etc. We must stay at it and use every little advantage we can find to push it in the right direction.
If it falls through, then those with youth, strength, health, energy -- and technical know how, like the brilliant young patriots who act under the auspices of Anonymous, Edward Snowden/Glenn Greenwald/Laura Poitras, and many others -- will begin the revolution. I happen to know that the establishment is ready for that, but I just have to hope that humanity will find a way. It's happened before.
We'll just do what we can, Punkingal.
senz
(11,945 posts)Did you see this post in the CoffeeCat thread?
A good poster (not sure if I should say their name) sent CC's story to TYT -- and they read it on the air. So, many people now know how a real Bernie supporter's registration was changed from Democrat to Republican just before her state's primary.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1975364
I think everyone should email these shows. There's some important things that come out here. I'm always emailing MSNBC and Rachel about every major thing they don't cover. It puts pressure on them. I send MSBNC and Rachel a lot of things. Stephanie Miller too. Rub their noses in the fact that they aren't covering the most important election in our lifetimes.
But that story from Coffee Cat was IMPORTANT. Cenk thought so too.
So when we see something that should get wider attention, we can email it to those with a much bigger megaphone.
I think everything we do in support of Bernie -- and in support of anything we believe in -- matters.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)The Democracy Now program would be a good one to notify of things, too. Thanks for pointing this out!
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)The rules don't apply to the 1%.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)To have them.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... fight and that's been evident to some from the beginning.
He'll complain, like he's always done, and do relatively little about it...
If he has them dead to rights then sue and win, that's' a fight I'd support him having
senz
(11,945 posts)or what he wants, and it's not in your place to put words in his mouth.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... about some made up shit cause his overt sloppiness and unwilling to get into the details of even his own campaign.
That's why he's losing
Again, we'll see... if he has the DNC in NV dead to rights sue them... fight the CONSTRUCTIVE fight...
He wont, like he hasn't
senz
(11,945 posts)Sorry it makes you feel so bad.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Then you could do it the way you want it to be done.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts).... or do what he's usually done.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Response to senz (Reply #6)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
senz
(11,945 posts)I'm sure life will offer you growth opportunities. Take them.
Response to senz (Reply #37)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
senz
(11,945 posts)You caught me in a contemplative moment and I'm also feeling a bit motherly. So take my words to heart and be glad that your life lies ahead, waiting for you.
merrily
(45,251 posts)It's dumb, but traditionally true.
Theory is, if you don't like a private association, nothing forces you to belong. So, courts do not interfere with them.
There is an exception among Supreme Court cases, but that 1972 decision involved racial discrimination, a liquor license, etc. It is a case that courts distinguish, rather than follow. I didn't even see a wikipedia about it.
https://www.oyez.org/cases/1971/70-75
senz
(11,945 posts)A "private association" -- puts it all in perspective, helps me to see, again, how "private associations" can gain so much power that they work against the concept of government as an instrument for the will of the citizens. Which, of course, means that the intent of the constitution has been subverted.
We know that private associations -- multinational corporations -- are using the government for their own ends. Not only do they bribe and thus control the people's elected representatives, but corporate lobbyists actually write legislation. These private associations bend and disrupt -- effectively, obliterate -- the citizen-government relationship that is the fundamental premise of the Constitution.
So now I'm seeing more clearly how political parties, private associations, can also subvert the will of the people, but they do it at the electoral level. Although, ironically, it looks like Donald Trump has managed to bypass the RNC. Hm. But it isn't accurate to conclude that Trump represents the will of the people, because Trump is essentially a media invention. The founders wrote about an "informed" citizenry -- and most Americans are not sufficiently informed to wisely choose their elected representatives, due to corporate control of the media (thanks to Reagan and Clinton).
We have a problem. Certain private associations have seized so much power that that they can, and do, override the will of the people. The founders did talk about "factions." I'm not sure if corporations and political parties are what they meant by "factions." There must be a way of, essentially, quantifying this problem and writing up guidelines -- laws -- to limit unelected power. This must be the joy of practicing constitutional law. (Makes me envious).
Sometimes I wish I didn't care so much about this. I wish I could forget about it and luxuriate in the beauty of the sights and sounds of nature and literature and music and pleasant people and all the things that make life so sweet. But I care. Because it matters. I guess we all do, we people who spend our time on political forums. We care. (Except for the despicable crud that is paid to post here, and if any of them are reading this, they know what they can do with themselves.)
Sorry if I partially used this reply to think outloud, merrily. I appreciate who you are and what you say.
merrily
(45,251 posts)State and local taxpayers are paying for the primaries and caucuses, state officials are running them, etc. It's bogus to say a judge can't look at them, IMO. Maybe the SCOTUS will speak on this. Then again, it's 4-4 now. Crap.
Thank you for all your kind words senz. I appreciate them so much, along with your very thoughtful, insightful and well-written posts. They are rare as platinum on DU anymore.
senz
(11,945 posts)The OP helped me understand how the other side operates.
merrily
(45,251 posts)thank you so much
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)won't admit that at least one 'delegate' changed her own registration to independent and thus became ineligible . I would wager more than one...but of course, it is easier to shout conspiracy than admit you don't bother to read the rules. I see some here think it is ok to 'flip a state' and disenfranchise voters...Clinton won Nevada...now a wrong has been righted.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)cling to the remnants of an obsolete system that needs to be put out of it's misery. But instead this empire will fight tooth and nail for what remains of whatever power it can squeeze out of the people.
Let them cling, while we get busy gathering, creating and building what will displace and replace this system when it eventually falls under it's own incompetent chaos.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)Public attention spans are so short.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)The part they forget though, denial doesn't change reality. It just makes them blind. They are self-propagandizing, and doing it for nothing more than to have their way. Those are people who should never be in a position to make decisions for others.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Response to silvershadow (Original post)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)apcalc
(4,463 posts)Keep fanning the flames....