2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumElection fraud in MA,IL,NY,DE,MD,AZ,NV now make Hillary an illegitimate nominee
Nothing more.
Stopping her at the convention is no longer about 'sour grapes'. Cheaters are not legitimate. Remember Bush? They threw eggs at his inauguration limo! He had to get back in the limo, and could not do the walk. The bleachers were half empty. It was a sad affair.
There is nothing inspiring about Hillary's campaign. She breeds anger with her arrogance and disrespect for our rule of law. This really pisses attorneys off!
Editing to add the links, as Hillary's supporters say this is a bullshit OP. So here are the facts....the opinion part, is that I believe she is no longer a legitimate nominee.
Links:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/maryland-decertifies-baltimore-election-results-investigates-irregularities/2016/05/12/fca6e128-1861-11e6-9e16-2e5a123aac62_story.html
and....
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/13/chicago-election-official-admits-numbers-didnt-match-hillary-clinton-vs-bernie-sanders-election-fraud-allegations/
She is no longer a legitimate nominee with all the found, documented fraud.
GO BERNIE!
Winners don't quit....and quitters don't win.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)110%
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Let the TRUTH ring free and clear... This primary has been "tainted" from the very outset.
The time for TRUTH IS NOW!
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)puffy socks
(1,473 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)lol
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)still_one
(92,061 posts)ExtraGriz
(488 posts)riversedge
(70,084 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)that a write in vote for Sanders aka Bernie or Bust is the very exact same as a vote for ........ wait for it ...... HILLARY
tells me everything I need to know
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)I am not concerned with liberals, they always do the right thing.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)if that is case you must think Liberals are stupid enough to vote for an imaginary character created by a Nazi sympathizer - interesting indeed
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)to have these
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)are making the same claim if you don't vote your ME your voting for my opponent no matter who's name is on your ballot
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)And yet you spend all day here pretending to support him.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and no I do not take orders from candidates-but rest assured I'm confident Hillary has your vote
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)But I was wanting to do that before you knew who he was, I bet.
I dont know who you are voting for, but I do know if enough Bob stay home, Drumpf will get his hands on nukes.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)The lesser of two evils and (that old RIGHT WING stand-by) FEAR just don't work anymore. It's been used way too often. and all it does is continue the slide into the rightwing hell we are in now.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)this nut case
from getting his tiny hands on these
bunchofpenguins
(47 posts)[img][/img]
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)bunchofpenguins
(47 posts)You don't find it worrisome? Pro Iraq, Pro Syria, Pro Libya, Pro Afghanistan, Pro Middle East Militarisation, Pro Military spending, More pro Israel than Donald Trump, Pro Obama drone policy.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)If you like Drumpf then this is what you will be reading.
bunchofpenguins
(47 posts)Linking to a picture to point out a real event of somebody embracing a genocidal warmonger is GOP promotion? Do you think it was Photoshopped or something? Or are you just ashamed that the liberal party is pushing a pro military industrial complex / pro drone / pro NSA candidate? /boggle
runaway hero
(835 posts)This is unnecessarily divisive and wrong. She has won already. There is no way Bernie can catch up.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I hope this go-round isn't as bad as the last one
come on man. How will Bernie break though here?
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)tritsofme
(17,370 posts)Why doesn't Bernie hold a press conference this afternoon to expose the "truth"?
If Bernie doesn't do this, I can think of only two explanations. Either he is a smart man who doesn't buy your conspiracy theory nonsense, or he is wholly complicit in the "stealing" of the elections.
If he is not complicit why wouldn't he expose the oh so obvious truth? The answer is obvious, he's in on it!1!1!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)in some appropriate cases.
scscholar
(2,902 posts)He hasn't been nearly as passionate lately as someone in his position needs to be. It's ironic that someone who is so toning down his campaign to nothing has supporters that are upping their game to violence. To violence.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Bernie:
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)might win re-election... for the Senate.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)The reason that Bush got away with fraud was because the election was *thisclose*. The difference in votes amounted to hundreds...That's how you can get away with election fraud.
But to claim that there is fraud when Hillary is MILLIONS (yes, plural) MILLIONS of votes ahead? That's beyond absurd!
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)in caucus states, many of which Bernie won by large margins.
She also won Texas and New York, two large states. California has not yet voted. You really can't talk about millions of votes until California has voted.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)And SO FAR, she is ahead by millions. I mentioned CA
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)We are not allowed to look to see 'how it counts'.
that was over ballots.
Now, as far as it being close....in several states, and in the hearings last week, we are seeing a 12 point deviation spread from exit polling.
The U.S. deems anything over 2% to be fraudulent. In 2004 it was unlike 2000, as Florida got rid of the paper ballots.
180,000 votes were removed electronically from Florida, while they moved the shit show to Ohio. The Sec. of State for elections in Ohio was also the co chair of the Bush Cheney campaign, no longer allowed in FLA. So you see....there are many ways.
This time, it's within counties. Bernie still wins, but they change the counties....where more delegates are awarded. See how she keeps pace? I mention 2000, to show you the deflation of the country's mood. You don't think after the convention, with a nominee this always favors, who is under investigation won't do this? Bush was already (s)elected in 04. This is a primary where Hillary needs people to be excited to GOTV. What part are you missing....
There are more votes than voters. Why is that okay with Hillary supporters? She will not win. In the general a 12 point deviation swing will not fly. You can't fix it that much without it being seen. It's seen. But this is the 'democratic' primary that the party controls.
Wait to see if this flies in the GE? Go ahead...keep saying none of this matters. Bush cheating was different. Sure. NY is different from MD and DE and IL. Lots of ways to cheat. You have a lot to learn on this topic. Start here and do get back to me!
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)I don't have faith in our election system at all anymore.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)You don't hold a voice vote when you know that the likely voters on each side are about half on one and half on the other. You need some sort of vote count: raised hands, written ballots, some means to insure a fair count.
That is the most stupid thing that Hillary supporters at the Nevada convention could have done: hold voice votes when they knew based on the caucus results and earlier results that the Party was almost evenly divided.
They were asking for trouble and they knew it.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)Technically, though, that's what they did. The vote went the way those who were there were going for. IE, there were more Clinton supporters present at every point in the process and Clinton and Sanders officials agreed that this was the case.
However, because caucases are absolutely insane, they should have done a voice vote, one by one, allowing anyone with a piece of paper to do a tally. Of course, that wouldn't stop people from fucking up their own tallys and calling it corrupt, but at least everyone would be involved in the process rather than the handful of people registering them and tallying who was there.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)should have had a chance to have their say at the convention.
To silence people because they disagree with you or are in the minority does not build cohesion or harmony.
The event organizers bungled terribly. They were Hillary supporters, and their bungling reflects badly on Hillary's competence. That's just the way it is.
Talk about hurting the candidate's chances in the general election. All an opposing candidate has to do is to bring up the mismanagement of that convention.
I can't believe that. It was embarrassing beyond belief.
Like a bunch of old ladies arguing about how to run the rummage sale. Looked really bad.
I am a woman. I am not sexist. Men at football, soccer and other sports events who fight and argue are just as stupid.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)They failed incredibly hard to clarify what was happening, but it was on the agenda (to get the process going). They also should have had a voice count on the agenda as well, because when it's that close the losers are going to be crazy.
As far as hurting the party, I think anyone who doesn't sit back and assess what happened probably never intended to support the nominee anyway if it was Clinton.
Sanders sent out a letter before the convention calling for civility. They got 900 signatures to amend the rules. They had 8-9 petitions that they were going to submit. The people in his campaign, worked for weeks on it. But the chaos prevented them from submitting. The amendments probably would have failed, but they were shut out because people couldn't be calm. One of the amendments actually called for a head count. It's possible, if they were calm and respectful Clinton people would have gone with it.
The people who ignored Sanders own letter are not supporters, they are more band wagoning, and just anti Clinton.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Sanders' supporters.
But, the convention organizers should have worked with the Sanders group BEFORE THE CONVENTION.
Any good organizer knows that the ground rules for a convention or other meeting at which there will be a) a large crowd and b) differences, serious differences of opinion is to meet with all the groups representing different opinions before the event to agree on ground rules.
Anyone who has ever organized a church social knows that you can't just spring rules on people. You can't just tell people to shut up. Groups just don't work that way.
If the dissenters are a very small group, you might get by with ignoring them. But when the dissenters are a large group -- nearly half of those assembled -- as at the Nevada convention, and YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE that they will disagree with you and want to have a say, then you meet with them in advance to agree on ground rules.
The chaos at that convention was either the result of incompetence or of planning -- planning to exclude others based on their different opinion.
Neither is a good sign when it comes to the likely outcome of a Hillary presidency.
The dissent on the part of Bernie supporters was predictable and should have been avoided through cooperation.
Hillary has an exaggerated view of her numerical and support advantage in this campaign. The object in her rear view mirror is larger than she realizes. Even if she is the nominee, even if she is elected, the Bernie contingent (of which I am a proud part) will not just fade away. She is going to have to learn to respect and work with it.
Hillary needs to deal with Bernie supporters. If she can't deal with us, how in the world will she deal with Republicans?
As for Bernie, he has been successfully dealing with Republicans since 1980 when he became mayor of Burlington, Vermont. He knows how to do it. That is one of the reasons I support him so strongly. He knows how to work with others even if they don't agree with him.
Hillary???? So far I don't see that she does.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)Everyone in the process knew that Sanders side had amendments they were working on! They had to get signatures AT the convention from delegates on the floor. But people started fighting before they could submit them!
The credentials committee was staffed by both Sanders and Clinton people...
And you should know no rules were sprung on anyone, those actually involved knew the rules and followed them. They could not have gotten those signatures if they didn't know what to do.
In reality anyone could've been removed for yelling out of turn, because to be a delegate they would've had to sign that they read and understood the rules. And one of the biggest rules is not to speak out of turn.
reddread
(6,896 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)sorry no room for the nt or even a period.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)and want and should be heard.
Hillary will regret this in November.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Oh wait ....
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)LexVegas
(6,030 posts)snort
(2,334 posts)and nah nah nah hey hey hey on the way out. Tons of respect for that one.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)And it was organized by Hillary's folks.
It is proof that Hillary's supporters do not know how to organize.
You do not hold a voice vote when the voter congregated are only 30 votes out of over 500 + apart on the issue. You do not hold a voice vote when you know that the numbers of those on one side of the issue are nearly equal to those on the other side.
Talk about setting up an arbitrary vote count?
Unsophisticated, ignorant and disorganized. Hillary's supporters.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)They just want to "win". Nothing else matters to them.
Sick. What is right, what's wrong, what's good for the country, NOTHING matters to them but their winning. Warped.
jalan48
(13,841 posts)Who she chooses for her VP is the real issue now.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)Not the most effective coping mechanism though.
jalan48
(13,841 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)jalan48
(13,841 posts)ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)This is why she knows she'll get away with it. And just like Bush, she does not care about citizens. Period.
onecaliberal
(32,777 posts)The republican house will have impeachment papers ready on day 1. The sad thing is they have plenty of legit things to use against her.
brooklynite
(94,333 posts)...you forgot that it takes 2/3 of the Senate to vote to remove a President?
jalan48
(13,841 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)I sometimes wonder if I'm on a RW site when I come to DU.
jalan48
(13,841 posts)Rainbows and flowers? It will be one big drama for at least four years. Enjoy.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)So this is a moot point.
jalan48
(13,841 posts)Clinton II will be even bigger and better. But, maybe she can keep the Republicans at bay by agreeing to work with them on Big Trade deals or cutting Medicare, etc.-you know, reaching across the aisle to find compromise. That should make them nicer.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Start getting used to it
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)MineralMan
(146,254 posts)she will be a legitimate nominee, after all. It will be her name on people's ballots in November, not Bernie's.
Some people won't like that, but we'll still have the general election and decide who will be President, starting in 2017.
You'll have a choice, too, to make then. I hope you make the better choice.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)She will never be legitimate after this farce of a primary.
God, what a waste of resources and enthusiasm. We had it in the bag, and now this angry war-mongering DINO tool is going to clear the path for a Trump Presidency.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)And the chorus of "She's Winning (tm)" without addressing why she's "winning." W "won" too.
Shortly, someone why cry sexism, but as Hillary and her supporters have been sexist this entire campaign, you have lost the right to be taken seriously.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)It looks like, again, you didn't read the actual words, just responded with "She's Winning (tm)", which is exactly what I said would happen. You don't even address the issues brought up about election fraud, indicating either you didn't read that and are blathering at the mouth rather than engaging in discussion (likely), or don't even comprehend the possibility of your chosen one being dishonest/cheating. Or don't care as long as she's winning.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)Are you?
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)Just like with all of Hillary's problems.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)Temper, temper...
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)Blue_Adept
(6,393 posts)Cause it is.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)And the state was very close.
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Some one posted this earlier. Seems approporate.
.
apcalc
(4,462 posts)virgogal
(10,178 posts)ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)I was removed from a polling place for Hillary in 2008 because my FOOT was on the orange painted line.
But Bill? He broke the law.
Here are a couple of links to help you:
https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2016/03/02/ma-primary-unadjusted-exit-poll-indicates-bernie-won/
Again, you are not to 'adjust' exit polls to fit the result. Study this.
Here: Bill Clinton sued:
https://pivotamerica.com/bill-clinton-officially-sued-election-fraud-massachusetts/
Election shenanigans in MA:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/riley-waggaman/its-not-just-arizona-elec_b_9550670.html
More fraud like AZ in MA?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/3/1/1494106/-More-Possible-Voter-Fraud-Now-in-Massachusetts
Here ya go!
virgogal
(10,178 posts)One Black Sheep
(458 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)brooklynite
(94,333 posts)...who hasn't challenged the outcome in any of these States.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)She has lied about every detail of the FBI investigation. leading people to vote for her who absolutely would not if they knew the truth. And this whole campaign has been a series of frauds.
Everything that follows from a fraud is void.
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)And there was no cheating...can't admit people just aren't that into Bernie...just aren't.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)And look at the disaster that brought. Illegitimate leaders always seem to bring disaster in their wake.
jamese777
(546 posts)permanent absentee ballot status. I haven't been to a polling station on Election Day in a decade. I fill out my ballot in the comfort of my home and I either drop it off in a mailbox or take it to election headquarters, which is drive through.
The only states that currently offer Permanent Absenteee Ballot status to all registered voters are: Arizona, California, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Montana, New Jersey and Utah.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)In a county I know they used an outside vendor to print ballots. The printing machine and company was audited each time.
Well the elections supervisor wanted her own ballot printers, 'in case we run out, it's faster to print our own'. They say her machine is audited too.
Here is something else that I know. I worked on a campaign in 2002, where we had a copy machine from a supporter/company. Of course we paid them per copy, they would come and audit the machine and leave us a bill. Sometimes he would chuckle and say, I'll just put so many copies down, and save you some money. I heard that. So I don't think the elections supervisor should have a machine.
Mail ballots go out and come back 45 days in advance. Envelopes with the names and bar coding must be kept. They can open them, take out the opposing candidate, color in bubbles in new ballots and scan those....get it? The building they now use is new, huge, and no windows. The public observation area is now behind glass and you can't hear or see shit. Ballots should be printed elsewhere as they always were, and audited.
I agree with another post here in DU, if we truly audited a primary state, at only 3%, (not even 5% as Chicago just did and found fraud), Hillary's campaign would fall apart like a house of cards, just like the post said. Spot on!
2cannan
(344 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)and it is helping (rather than hurting) Democrats, perhaps it was the Bernie camp who was cheating but just didn't cheat hard enough to make up his huge deficit. After all, weren't most of those areas where there were problems areas that mostly supported Clinton?
While Rome burns DU fiddles.
nemo137
(3,297 posts)Which was a (large) part of what was discussed in Illinois as well.
I understand the idea of them, but they seem to do more harm than good. Better to just move to same day registration.
(And in closing, going to hit on my current hobbyhorse that having 50 state by state election systems/requirements/etc is a recipe for disaster).
Tess49
(1,579 posts)dchill
(38,442 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)johnp3907
(3,730 posts)FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)I could not have thought of a more vapid and inane reply to what has become a national, political crisis.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Bernie supporter lingo for "an ass kicking of my candidate by the voters of the Democratic Party".
Renew Deal
(81,846 posts)"If only people get to know Bernie." They did and picked someone else
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)You're welcome!
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)She did that all by herself. Ask the FBI.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)Tarc
(10,472 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)Tarc
(10,472 posts)Outside of Arizona, where the GOP deliberately closed many polling stations, there has been no substantiated prof of wrongdoing. What is more telling is that Sanders and his legal team have filed no challenges in any state. It's safe to say that, unlike his supporters, they do not fall for every blog and twitter claim they read.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)It's stunning this matters to no Hillary supporters.
Democracy should come first. A leader stands up and calls it out.
Crickets......
Tarc
(10,472 posts)Why is that?
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Gavile
(107 posts)Prefer Clinton, I'd be more inclined to accept it.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)And BSS always respond with ad Homs and personal attacks
Gavile
(107 posts)Ie. not "It's her turn", "It's time we had a woman", "I just don't like Bernie", "I'm not buying what Bernie's selling" or "Hillary has a relationship with us".
Or anything that involves the phrases "pie in the sky" or "unicorns".
Gavile
(107 posts)"Bernie is a grumpy old man and his supporters are angry people who shout and say mean things".
Those are not legitimate reasons to prefer Hillary.
Renew Deal
(81,846 posts)Gavile
(107 posts)Renew Deal
(81,846 posts)dbackjon
(6,578 posts)It is perfectly clear that you do not know what you were talking about
Arizona and it's voting processes are all controlled by anti-Clinton GOP members
And Clinton was hurt worse than Sanders by the shenanigans there
There's no point in looking at the rest of your post because it is clear that you are a conspiracy theorist who does not understand the voting process or elections