'we came, we saw, he died"...one of the very few times Hillary didn't interject "I" in her claims...

[islandmkl]

great OP re: the direct involvement of being responsible for the death of another human being (or actually, any living creature) http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280196607

Hillary will continue the Obama program of 'emotionless' drones that the public accepts as some robots that somehow just go kill bad guys...the guys on the other end of the 'stick' are merely playing serious computer games...no bloody hands involved...

and it sure as hell isn't going to be Hillary facing any adversary anywhere but maybe over a conference table, though that really doesn't appear to be her style in relation to any foreign policy 'achievements' which she may lay claim to...

and any 'unforeseen' consequences are just a 'part of the game' for all the regime changers...Kissinger has been able to continue his 'legacy' with some surprising adherents...

it's sad that America can be summed up, in at least one area of policy, and by more than one person of power, in this manner:

[randome]

1. I'm sorry, which Sanders/Progressive issue is this OP about?

It's very interesting that Sanders supporters post more about Clinton than they do Sanders. Yeah. Interesting.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[JonLeibowitz]

3. The "let's not brag about blowing countries up" issue.

[AgerolanAmerican]

4. That would be a "which candidate isn't a murderous sociopath" issue

[NWCorona]

5. What's interesting is I barely see any pro Hillary threads from team Hillary

I've probably posted more than some here.

[randome]

21. 3 responses, all about Clinton. Point proved.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[NCTraveler]

31. Seems to me that has been a part of Clintons strategy from the start.

Through her own actions and the actions of her surrogates they knocked the Sanders campaign off message. Weaver made it extremely easy. The overall tone outside of rallies has been Clinton Clinton Clinton. It was perfect against a career politician with very little name recognition. Weaver sent his minions out on a Clinton clubbing expadition. It's easier to get LIVs to do that than to actually stand for something. Not a great way to get more people to the polls for Sanders.

[pacalo]

2. She's just so giddy about having that kind of control.

[polly7]

6. I saw in real time him being tortured, beaten and sodomized with a bayonet in the street after

two NATO planes/bombers/wtf ever stopped his convoy to let the western paid and crazed 'rebels' have a good old time hunting them down and murdering them. I'll never forget it. We wouldn't allow a dog to be killed in this way. Regime-change - hang them, sodomize them to death - nothing matters to the victorious. It's all apparently fun(ny) and games. And yes they were games - horrible, devastating, lying pre-planned and long-planned vicious games with the lives of millions as pawns.

This remark of hers ranks right up there with Albright's 'we thought it was worth it' after half a million Iraqi children died d/t the terroristic sanctions.

Gagworthy. And not a single thought to all those Qaddafi loyalists hung in the streets, burned alive, kidnapped, raped and murdered over this lying sham.

It’s a Good Day for Someone Else to Die Hard

According to Consortium News, when Hillary Clinton was asked about the death of Muammar Qaddafi, Libya’s deposed ruler, at the hands of a mob, she said, “We came, we saw, he died.” That’s a comment Allen Dulles–or a psychopath–might have made. That’s worrisome in a world in which President Hillary Clinton may become a reality. Her penchant for war, secrecy and cover-up, Yale pedigree and alumni network, corporate connections from Wall Street to London, fealty to Israel, shapeshifting Republican/Democrat persona, and the use of the Clinton Foundation as a sort of non-profit, quasi-government, global intelligence/networking agency makes comparing her with the Dulles brothers — and their public/private lives — not as crazy as it first seems. The Clinton Foundation has initiatives in dozens of countries throughout the world. Its connections in international corporate board rooms and the principals of foreign national and local governance give it access to information/intelligence. It is also involved in US domestic political campaigns indirectly through its donors.

For example, one of the Clinton Foundation’s board members is Frank Guistra. According to a 2013 Huffington Post article:

Clinton was borrowing [Giustra’s private jet] to begin a four-day speaking tour of Latin America that would pay him $800,000…Frank Giustra was forming a friendship that would make him part of the former president’s inner circle and gain him introductions to presidents of Kazakhstan and Colombia… Giustra’s self-serving philanthropy also took him and Clinton to Kazakhstan in September 2007, as documented in a January 2008 New York Times investigation… Within two days [of the beginning of the trip], corporate records show that Mr. Giustra also came up a winner when his company [UrAsia Energy Ltd.] signed preliminary agreements giving it the right to buy into three uranium projects controlled by Kazakhstan’s state-owned uranium agency, Kazatomprom,”…The monster deal stunned the mining industry, turning an unknown shell company [UrAsia] into one of the world’s largest uranium producers in a transaction ultimately worth tens of millions of dollars to Mr. Giustra….Just months after the Kazakh pact was finalized, Mr. Clinton’s charitable foundation received its own windfall: a $31.3 million donation from Mr. Giustra… Within a year and a half, Giustra sold off his stake in the Kazatomprom joint venture for $3.1 billion, which he had originally purchased for $450 million.

Full (long) article: http://dissidentvoice.org/2016/04/hillary-clinton-channels-allen-and-john-foster-dulles/

Will future archaeologists have images of the great killing machines let loose on civilians across the global arena as referred to by Madeleine Albright, “What’s the point of having this superb military if you can’t use it?” Will rediscovered graffiti in some burnt out Washington with Hillary Clinton’s ebullient words as uttered upon hearing of the death of Muammar Gaddafi, former Prime Minister of Libya, have any meaning, “We Came, We Saw, He died”?

But the problem with America’s pursuit of regime change is that its foreign policy has become tainted, if not engulfed, by obsessive compulsive disorder in obedience to the deals hatched in the oligopolistic marketplace. Deals to remove some ‘HE’ or other for the purpose of expropriating territory or resources abroad are recognised as the transactions of the credibility-lite elites, elites ‘hooked’ on violence. Here the relationship between cause and effect, medium and message, disappears into the nether regions of shady deals done in the name of shady business practices…capitalism recognizing no borders.

Hillary’s “WE CAME”, says it all and the world has come to recognize the actors in the oligopoly and how they dispatch the forces that “COME” to take and destroy. The etymology used to disguise aggression vis-à-vis propaganda has become predictable and threadbare. The deals done by the Military-Industrial-Complex, Wall Street, The Media, are done for no other purpose than to increase the power of these latter-day mammoths. The deal done to destabilize Brazil and Ukraine, demonize Russia, sell-out Palestine, demolish Libya and Iraq, are all done by dealers who share a common interest in lucre, and always with palms open to receive the thirty pieces of silver, and guess what? There are plenty more of them in the wings; some of them are fronting up as presidential wannabes in this election year in the land-of-the-free.

Full article: http://dissidentvoice.org/2016/04/propaganda-as-a-weapon-of-mass-destruction/

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. +1000 nt

[brooklynite]

7. This I/we thing has been posted here for the past nine months...

...how's it working out?

[840high]

8. It's working fine. I'll never forget

her words and the joy on her face. Makes me want to throw up.

[randome]

10. Instead of dwelling on your illness, why not think of something positive?

Oh, that's right, I forgot, this election, DU, all our lives are all about Clinton now. Remember that guy she was running against in the 2016 primary? What was his name? He and his followers used to talk about issues, didn't they?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[840high]

15. I don't have an illness. Your

candidate does - she likes wars. My thoughts are positive - writing in Bernie's name if he's not the nominee.

[Fumesucker]

16. The person bothered by someone gloating over death is the one with the illness?

And not the one doing the gloating?

[randome]

20. {Sigh.} Anyone with a modicum of human relations skills can see what happened.

And I've posted this many, many times. Women of Clinton's age come from a generation that had to try much harder than today to prove they were as 'tough' as a man. It's easy -and I mean ridiculously easy- to see Clinton's statement as a reflection of that. She wanted to appear 'tough as nails' but it came across wrong.

BFD.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Gavile]

26. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of voting for a female candidate?

I thought the idea was that they'd do things differently, rather than imitating the behavior of some of the worst men.

[randome]

27. No, all it 'proves' -imo- is that she's prone to gaffes in front of the camera.

I don't think she'll start any wars or go on a 'crusade' or whatever simply because she's from an older generation. Those kind of actions require more than a soundbite. And she'll have a ton of advisers to guide her along her decisions.

We regularly forgive Joe Biden for his gaffes, I think we can do the same for Clinton.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Gavile]

29. Well that was probably the worst aspect of it

The sentiment itself was bad enough, but the fact that she expressed it on camera for the whole world to see was a shocking lapse in judgement. Can we really trust someone like that not to start more crusades? I don't share your confidence.

[islandmkl]

11. i wouldn't worry too much about how it's 'working out' in regard to DU or the primaries...

you can bask in all the glory you seem to desire Hillary to provide...

if you think there are not long-term consequences from such an attitude, let alone some world-view, that will do nothing but harm our standing in the world, as it has continually in the past, then you go with that...

the day won't ever come for you where you will face that same question about 'how's it working out?' because your denial with insulate you from any involvement...

if you want to see Hillary succeed you might want to acknowledge, let alone address, her flaws, too...

you are keeping score in the wrong game...

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. not 100% successful obviously. Some people still have no conscience.

[Skwmom]

9. Even Seymour Hersh called it bizarre.

[randome]

12. "Even" Seymour Hersh? The guy who thinks the killing of Bin Laden was all a lie?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[JEB]

17. The Empress enjoys herself.

Laugh with her or bow down in shame.

[jack_krass]

18. who *DOES* this? I can't think of..

any world leader ever gloating over the rape and murder of another human being like this. I mean, FFS she had just hosted Ghadaffi's son in Washington DC not too long before the killing took place. I wonder if he wants his donation back?

[TheFarS1de]

23. Saddam ...

the closest I can think of in recent history who took pleasure in the death of others . It was sub human and devoid of any empathy or political sense . Truly a hollow soul , only money and power seem to fill the void inside .

[jack_krass]

19. FFS, Should we expect a POTUS Hillary to dance a jig live after every confirmed drone kill?

Break into a full song and dance with her staff for a high-value target?

[deepestblue]

22. I wish Henry Wallace would have remained Vice President n/t

[oasis]

24. I shed no tears for the murdering, brutal dictator and terrorist , Gaddafi.

The victims of Pan Am Flight 103 always comes to mind each time his name has been mentioned in
the numerous OPs here at Democratic Underground.

[islandmkl]

25. no tears should be shed for him...which has nothing to do with the delight exhibited...

here again, how are the consequences working out?

it appears that the Bush-era-initiated programs of regional 'stabilization'...which we all, or most of us, decried...have continued and will continue into the future...

so, for continuity's sake, let's keep putting people in place who will continue to make decisions that keep that region in turmoil, disintegration, and being torn apart...

[Gavile]

28. There's a middle ground

In between shedding no tears, and gloating and laughing, on camera for the whole world to see, about his brutal killing. A woman in Hillary's position ought to have enough judgement and restraint to keep her feelings to herself even if that's how she really feels about it.

[jack_krass]

32. Nobody is saying she should shed tears,

But how about some poise, and dignity and restraint? Especially considering:
-you'te a world leader
-you recently played host to the kids of the man whos's grave you dancing and pissing all over.

[Fairgo]

30. Trust me, its the royal we